Why is it that Tom Werman...

[SchenkerFan]

made every heavy metal record sound as if the amps were placed in cardboard boxes? He did it with Motley, with Twisted Sister and with Dokken. Maybe he was fine producing poppier acts, but he sucked ass at producing heavy metal records.

[Ozzy Stradlin]

It was the sound of the 80s, in a lot of respects.

[DonJuanDeMarco]

He was hired to make hit records and that’s what he did.

Sonically, I think Poison Open Up and Say Ahh sounds better than the ones mentioned above. It may have had a lot of cardboard/mid range but it was a wetter sound. More echo and reverb helped.

He got great performances out of the band. It’s Bret’s best sounding vocal. The echo/delay settings are perfect.

[pieceofme]

He was hired to make hit records and that’s what he did.

Sonically, I think Poison Open Up and Say Ahh sounds better than the ones mentioned above. It may have had a lot of cardboard/mid range but it was a wetter sound. More echo and reverb helped.

He got great performances out of the band. It’s Bret’s best sounding vocal. The echo/delay settings are perfect.

Open up and say ahh sounds awful. One of the worst produced albums in my collection. It sounds so light. The production on look what the cat dragged in is miles better.

[Sleek]

This shit is so wild to me. LWTCDI sounds like a demo tape. I remember the follow-up sounding WAY more pro at the time.

I seriously wonder if it is mastering or some shit, or like, they made the CDs from the vinyl masters or something, or if modern listening devices are really different.

I've definitely noticed that some of my favorite 80's sounding records seem to sound like shit now. At the time, on vinyl or cassette through paper coned speakers on a consumer stereo, you had multiple layers of tech designed to flatter the sound, and now you just sort of get the raw audio.

Conversely, a lot of seventies stuff that I thought sounded shitty, muffled and old fashioned sounds great now. Not sure if the gear/listening experience has changed or if it is just my ears and taste.

[DemonFilth2001]

This shit is so wild to me. LWTCDI sounds like a demo tape. I remember the follow-up sounding WAY more pro at the time.

I seriously wonder if it is mastering or some shit, or like, they made the CDs from the vinyl masters or something, or if modern listening devices are really different.

I've definitely noticed that some of my favorite 80's sounding records seem to sound like shit now. At the time, on vinyl or cassette through paper coned speakers on a consumer stereo, you had multiple layers of tech designed to flatter the sound, and now you just sort of get the raw audio.

Conversely, a lot of seventies stuff that I thought sounded shitty, muffled and old fashioned sounds great now. Not sure if the gear/listening experience has changed or if it is just my ears and taste.

The Ozzy Sabbath albums are still unlistenable. Thank god for Speak of the Devil!

[Sleek]

See, I love the sound of those records now...but in the eighties, while I loved the material, I thought they sounded awful.

[Psychobolia.com]

To Werman's credit, at least all of those albums sounded different. Theater of Pain's guitar sound does indeed sound muddy and cardboard-boxed, but Shout at the Devil's sounds razor-sharp, and Girls Girls Girls sounds good too...

Whereas Andy Sneap, whose albums sound terrific, tend to sound a bit similar. It's like he uses the same or similar settings with each band he works with.

[Sleek]

I read an interview where Werman said he did not feel they got a really good guitar sound for Mick until GGG.

People gotta realize tho that the guitar sound is not entirely dependent on the producer. They suggest stuff, yeah, but at the end of the day the guitar player gets final say, and if some guy walks in and goes: "This is my rig" and isn't malleable, then that's what is gonna go to tape.

[Bono Nettencourt]

made every heavy metal record sound as if the amps were placed in cardboard boxes? He did it with Motley, with Twisted Sister and with Dokken. Maybe he was fine producing poppier acts, but he sucked ass at producing heavy metal records.

Lol. None of those bands were the least bit metal. He was a pop producer and they hired him because they wanted hits, then they resented him for giving them what they wanted. Never got the backlash against this guy.

[DangerZone]

I read an interview where Werman said he did not feel they got a really good guitar sound for Mick until GGG.

People gotta realize tho that the guitar sound is not entirely dependent on the producer. They suggest stuff, yeah, but at the end of the day the guitar player gets final say, and if some guy walks in and goes: "This is my rig" and isn't malleable, then that's what is gonna go to tape.

mick’s tone is great on TFFL & shout.
Horrid on theatre.

[FreddyFender]

Also, the guitar sound is not independent of the other instruments.

Nothin but a Good Time - Bass and Drums only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujk2FseiAw

Compare that with Juan's isolated bass here on Round and Round: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p01KDL6m86w

Some stylistic choices were made that aged better than others. Bobby's sound is the "metal bass sound" from back in the day, but it doesn't provide the best foundation to lay a guitar track on.

Meanwhile Juan's got a much more tasteful kind of sound out of that Charvel PJ that's not much different from what you'd hear on a Van Halen Record.

[Darrien]

Nothin but a Good Time - Bass and Drums only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujk2FseiAw

That gate they have on it is fucking awful, as if the wet verb isn't bad enough. At least it isn't as obvious with the guitars/vocals added in.

[Sleek]

It was the times. Every instrument had to be PERFECTLY isolated and gated and shit.

The worst I heard was on the third L.A. Guns record. They did the drums at Ocean Way, which is one of THE legendary rooms. They got the kit miked up and brought up the channels in the control room. It sounded like GOD. Just huge and full and like, you know, a very expensive drum kit through the best gear ever made (The overheads were a matched set of Neumanns from the fifties with sequential serial numbers. At the time, they were like 20k, now, I am sure they cost more than a house) in A ROOM DESIGNED BY GENIUSES.

...then they went to work on it. Gated the snare down to nothing except the initial hit, then added reverb to fill it back out. Took the kick down to a clicky nonsense. Compressed the overheads in a way that you basically just got the cymballs. Just awful.

It was SO perverse...if they just used the mics wide open, it would have sounded like Bonham or something...but to get that awesome sound and then carve it apart so it fit the standard radio sound of the times...horrifying.

You can really hear it on the intro to this. There is no real room sound, just that shitty reverb on the snare, and the kick is just a tight, muffled nothing. Bleh. https://youtu.be/sJjsblq-YPc?list=OLAK5 ... ILilzBAXRE

[Bono Nettencourt]

OMG I'll be damned if that doesn't sound like the beginning of Rocket Queen...

[rikraffmrktng]

It was the times. Every instrument had to be PERFECTLY isolated and gated and shit.

The worst I heard was on the third L.A. Guns record. They did the drums at Ocean Way, which is one of THE legendary rooms. They got the kit miked up and brought up the channels in the control room. It sounded like GOD. Just huge and full and like, you know, a very expensive drum kit through the best gear ever made (The overheads were a matched set of Neumanns from the fifties with sequential serial numbers. At the time, they were like 20k, now, I am sure they cost more than a house) in A ROOM DESIGNED BY GENIUSES.

...then they went to work on it. Gated the snare down to nothing except the initial hit, then added reverb to fill it back out. Took the kick down to a clicky nonsense. Compressed the overheads in a way that you basically just got the cymballs. Just awful.

It was SO perverse...if they just used the mics wide open, it would have sounded like Bonham or something...but to get that awesome sound and then carve it apart so it fit the standard radio sound of the times...horrifying.

You can really hear it on the intro to this. There is no real room sound, just that shitty reverb on the snare, and the kick is just a tight, muffled nothing. Bleh. https://youtu.be/sJjsblq-YPc?list=OLAK5 ... ILilzBAXRE

Blame Michael James Jackson

[Sleek]

I do! That guy drove me nuts.