El Toro's Official Guitarded Thread...

[ElToro]

I have a friend selling EXACTLY thatguitar at his shop in Mesa, AZ!!!

[lerxstcat]

Definately going to have to check one out then. Sounds like it'll be a pretty good instrument with a bit of professional setup.

You know, I can't say that you might not need a setup with any guitar that is shipped to you. However, both my Agiles came out of the box in perfect playing condition! And they are both models with Floyd Rose trems, which is one more reason to possibly have to adjust. All I had to do was raise the bridge pickup a little colser to the strings. I may replace those bridge pickups later but for the moment i think they sound pretty good.

[Tenacious_Dio]

I had an Agile AL3100 once. Weighed just under 14 lbs. No thanks.

[lerxstcat]

I had an Agile AL3100 once. Weighed just under 14 lbs. No thanks.

Mine weigh 7 and 8 pounds, respectively. They are routed for Floyds, but the others vary in weight, just like Gibsons do. Did you call Rondo CS to see if they'd swap you for a lighter one?

[Tenacious_Dio]

I had an Agile AL3100 once. Weighed just under 14 lbs. No thanks.

Mine weigh 7 and 8 pounds, respectively. They are routed for Floyds, but the others vary in weight, just like Gibsons do. Did you call Rondo CS to see if they'd swap you for a lighter one?

I picked it up off of Ebay, so I was kinda stuck with it. Sold it on craigslist a few months later. Nice enough guitar, just too heavy. I've owned a couple of Gibson LP Studios, as well as an Epi, and they were all around 7-8 lbs. I've seen the weight issue with Agiles discussed on other message boards, so I just figured it was a fairly common thing. Maybe not.

[lerxstcat]

I had an Agile AL3100 once. Weighed just under 14 lbs. No thanks.

Mine weigh 7 and 8 pounds, respectively. They are routed for Floyds, but the others vary in weight, just like Gibsons do. Did you call Rondo CS to see if they'd swap you for a lighter one?

I picked it up off of Ebay, so I was kinda stuck with it. Sold it on craigslist a few months later. Nice enough guitar, just too heavy. I've owned a couple of Gibson LP Studios, as well as an Epi, and they were all around 7-8 lbs. I've seen the weight issue with Agiles discussed on other message boards, so I just figured it was a fairly common thing. Maybe not.

Well you do know a Studio is a few pounds lighter than a Standard or a Custom, right? Being a flat top instead of an archtop shaves off some weight.

I have heard that some Agiles are pretty heavy, but again, it's the same with Gibson Les Paul Standards and Customs. It's why Gibson has been experimenting with "tone" chambers for years - to cut weight. But when someone spends $2500-$4000 on their guitars they're not as likely to bitch about the weight, and Les Pauls are generally the heaviest production model guitars - and again, I mean the ardch top Standard, Deluxe, Classic and Custom models. Mahpgany isn't light and then you have an arched maple cap.

But if you don't want that weight, I can see you moving on from the guitar. I sold a Rogue (don't laugh!) PRS-style doubleneck for that reason. Played and sounded like a dream, but it weighed 27 pounds! That was just a little too much! If I ever get another doubleneck I think I will look for a hollowbody!

[PAF Pro]

Neck issues?! What happened?

I had a Predator as my shop guitar. Wish I hadn't sold it. Those necks were great! It has Duncan Distortion Rails in the lead... screamed!

Jim, the damn neck kept twisting to the left around the 5th fret.....it was kept in a temp-stable environment, strung with DR PureBlues 10's and always to A440. I've NEVER owned a guitar that gave me such a fit. Some little goth-creep kid ended up with it....I don't hold any ill will towards Warmoth, but that neck was the sorriest chunk of mahogany I've ever been cursed with!

Now this Corbin LP I have in it's place.....it's also a trans-red finish, but it plays like a really good Gibson. The electronics were shit, but I expect that from a low-end import model and had fun trash-canning that junk for some good pots&caps. Not a single neck issue to date....and it's maple.

My Predator is my "baby"......it stuck around during my hiatus from the instrument, and now it's getting a full complement of goodies. Yep, Hartley can build a damned fine guitar neck....2-piece maple, one side is MEGA-flamed. GFS is gonna get me in trouble yet, what with all of their goodies at cheap prices.....LOL

*as an aside, I KNEW that had to be you over at MLP.com...I go by Red Flametop over there*

[PAF Pro]

14 POUNDS?! Holy shit, that's Norlin-era LP territory!

My LP Standard copy(henceforth referred to as "Ruby") clocks in at a comparatively svelte 10 lbs., 2 oz. .

I've heard those Agiles are supposed to be some really well-built guitars as well as the Edwards brand.....the latter goes for some stupid money though, particul;arly some of them on eBay.....can buy a genuine Gibby Standard for the same price, sometimes less.

[Tenacious_Dio]

Well you do know a Studio is a few pounds lighter than a Standard or a Custom, right? Being a flat top instead of an archtop shaves off some weight.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Both my Studios had carved tops. (Not that it shows up well here)

[ElToro]

Studios are carve tops, but most are now weight relieved.

Sorry that the environment change screwed with that neck. It played awesome here.

MLP rules! Great stuff there.

[lerxstcat]

My mistake then. Seems like years ago I remember playing an LP Studio that was a flat top, and not much thicker than and SG. I could be wrong, I never really checked out a Studio after that point because I have a Standard and I really prefer the models with body and neck binding.

[lerxstcat]

14 POUNDS?! Holy shit, that's Norlin-era LP territory!

My LP Standard copy(henceforth referred to as "Ruby") clocks in at a comparatively svelte 10 lbs., 2 oz. .

I've heard those Agiles are supposed to be some really well-built guitars as well as the Edwards brand.....the latter goes for some stupid money though, particul;arly some of them on eBay.....can buy a genuine Gibby Standard for the same price, sometimes less.

Edwards is an ESP brand for the Japan market. The price should depend on whether it is a Made in Japan or Made in Korea model. The Japanese models are supposedly very comparable to a Gibson, though I have not played one. There's a Gibson LP Standard for $1175 on local Craigslist, the cheapest I have seen in a long time; are the Edwards going for that?

The Agiles do skimp on the electronics, plastic pot shafts and cheap pickups, though they do sound pretty good. Grover tuners, those are excellent tuners and don't need changed.

I'm gonna admit that my Agile LP copy plays every bit as nicely as my 1977 Gibson Les Paul Standard. The necks feel almost the same except that the Agile has 24 frets. The Gibson sounds a little better but it has DiMarzio PAFs and a stop tailpiece, wheras the Agile has a Floyd Rose and no-name Korean-made pickups, but they are pretty hot pickups!

I prefer guitars with Floyds, and I don't take the Gibson out anymore. The Agile plays just as well, has a Floyd and 24 frets which are both things I prefer in my guitars, and if it was lost, stolen or broken I am basically out $300 to have another shipped to my door. It's not a Gibson but it IS a nice LP copy that gets the job done, looks, plays and sounds great.

[ElToro]

Lerx;

Specials are flat tops.

[leftstrat]

14 POUNDS?! Holy shit, that's Norlin-era LP territory!

My LP Standard copy(henceforth referred to as "Ruby") clocks in at a comparatively svelte 10 lbs., 2 oz. .

I've heard those Agiles are supposed to be some really well-built guitars as well as the Edwards brand.....the latter goes for some stupid money though, particul;arly some of them on eBay.....can buy a genuine Gibby Standard for the same price, sometimes less.

Edwards is an ESP brand for the Japan market. The price should depend on whether it is a Made in Japan or Made in Korea model. The Japanese models are supposedly very comparable to a Gibson, though I have not played one. There's a Gibson LP Standard for $1175 on local Craigslist, the cheapest I have seen in a long time; are the Edwards going for that?

The Agiles do skimp on the electronics, plastic pot shafts and cheap pickups, though they do sound pretty good. Grover tuners, those are excellent tuners and don't need changed.

I'm gonna admit that my Agile LP copy plays every bit as nicely as my 1977 Gibson Les Paul Standard. The necks feel almost the same except that the Agile has 24 frets. The Gibson sounds a little better but it has DiMarzio PAFs and a stop tailpiece, wheras the Agile has a Floyd Rose and no-name Korean-made pickups, but they are pretty hot pickups!

I prefer guitars with Floyds, and I don't take the Gibson out anymore. The Agile plays just as well, has a Floyd and 24 frets which are both things I prefer in my guitars, and if it was lost, stolen or broken I am basically out $300 to have another shipped to my door. It's not a Gibson but it IS a nice LP copy that gets the job done, looks, plays and sounds great.

The more I am reading about Agiles, the more I'm wanting one.. Would you suggest gutting all the electronics, and rewiring/re-potting etc, or does the base setup work well enough for you?

[lerxstcat]

14 POUNDS?! Holy shit, that's Norlin-era LP territory!

My LP Standard copy(henceforth referred to as "Ruby") clocks in at a comparatively svelte 10 lbs., 2 oz. .

I've heard those Agiles are supposed to be some really well-built guitars as well as the Edwards brand.....the latter goes for some stupid money though, particul;arly some of them on eBay.....can buy a genuine Gibby Standard for the same price, sometimes less.

Edwards is an ESP brand for the Japan market. The price should depend on whether it is a Made in Japan or Made in Korea model. The Japanese models are supposedly very comparable to a Gibson, though I have not played one. There's a Gibson LP Standard for $1175 on local Craigslist, the cheapest I have seen in a long time; are the Edwards going for that?

The Agiles do skimp on the electronics, plastic pot shafts and cheap pickups, though they do sound pretty good. Grover tuners, those are excellent tuners and don't need changed.

I'm gonna admit that my Agile LP copy plays every bit as nicely as my 1977 Gibson Les Paul Standard. The necks feel almost the same except that the Agile has 24 frets. The Gibson sounds a little better but it has DiMarzio PAFs and a stop tailpiece, wheras the Agile has a Floyd Rose and no-name Korean-made pickups, but they are pretty hot pickups!

I prefer guitars with Floyds, and I don't take the Gibson out anymore. The Agile plays just as well, has a Floyd and 24 frets which are both things I prefer in my guitars, and if it was lost, stolen or broken I am basically out $300 to have another shipped to my door. It's not a Gibson but it IS a nice LP copy that gets the job done, looks, plays and sounds great.

The more I am reading about Agiles, the more I'm wanting one.. Would you suggest gutting all the electronics, and rewiring/re-potting etc, or does the base setup work well enough for you?

Well, it works fine for me, but I have more than 10 guitars so I switch up all the time. If an Agile fritzed out on me I'd just pick up another guitar, and I have only had the one since April, and the other I just got. But I have a Korean Samick SG that I've had for 10 years and is standing up well so I think they are as durable as anything else. The electronics are definitely the weak link in the package - and as I said, even their upscale models with "Duncan and EMG" pickups are really Duncan Designed and EMG Select. While I haven't laid hands on one of their upscale models, I think an AL2000 with quality electronics and pickups would make one helluva guitar that'd last a lifetime.

If you got the guitar and decided you were happy with the piece of wood you had, it would certainly be worth upgrading as far as if you mean to keep it. You'd have a lifetime guitar I think.

As far as resale, well I think these guitars are gonna have minimal resale value because most people just aren't aware of the brand name. I wouldn't put money into it expecting to get it back if you ever sold it, in fact I'd keep the original parts and put 'em back in of you wanted to do that. But you sound like you want a good guitar tp play, and you'd have it if you went that route.

[leftstrat]

I've got two reliable guitars, so I will probably end up with an Agile. . Thanks for the advice. I've been warned that Epi's are hit and miss, so for the price, it sounds like the Agiles are the way to go.

[ElToro]

My flat top Special just got home today from Roman Rist, a gifted builder.

[Gibsonite]

My flat top Special just got home today from Roman Rist, a gifted builder.

Damn,that's one beautiful guitar

[Sleek]

My flat top Special just got home today from Roman Rist, a very, very, very, very, very, very, very. very slow builder.

/fixed.

[ElToro]

Sadly, he has earned that reputation. He's still finishing a 1 p/u custom for me.

[PAF Pro]

I've read that about Rist.....would LOVE to sample some of his handiwork sometime.

Are those Seymour's in that hoss or Lollars? Have heard a few guitars with some of Jason's pups.....pricey, but the quality is evident.

Lerx.........I'd PREFER a USA-made LP, but 2 kids still at home and a mortgage limits my spendin' cabbage at the moment(I's po folk in regards to my music budget....LOL). There are some really nice imports.......I'll snap'em up all day long, but I have the understanding that all I'm really buying is the neck&body. "Ruby" came with linear-taper minipots and those godawful green caps(I call'em "chicklets")....extreme low-budget crap that did this guitar a great injustice.....thoroughly enjoyed tossing that shit in the garbage in favor of CTS 500K longshaft audio-tapers, and Sprague OD's(.022 in the bridge, and a .010 for the neck..really sweetens it up). Had to run a round file through the shaft holes to open them up for the SAE-sized pots, but other than that....I love working on stuff, modding it to do what I want.

Leftstrat....a good friend of mine has an Epi Standard flametop. BEAUTIFUL guitar, but he's had issues galore with frets popping up.

[lerxstcat]

My flat top Special just got home today from Roman Rist, a gifted builder.

Landscaping for guitar display purposes! Nice touch!

Beautiful guitar, man!

[CARNAGE]

Sadly, he has earned that reputation. He's still finishing a 1 p/u custom for me.

That's the one I've been wondering about. It has been a LONG time. I remember when that thread started on MLP. We have to have pics when you finally get it. Good craftsmanship is worth waiting for.

[leftstrat]

I've read that about Rist.....would LOVE to sample some of his handiwork sometime.

Are those Seymour's in that hoss or Lollars? Have heard a few guitars with some of Jason's pups.....pricey, but the quality is evident.

Lerx.........I'd PREFER a USA-made LP, but 2 kids still at home and a mortgage limits my spendin' cabbage at the moment(I's po folk in regards to my music budget....LOL). There are some really nice imports.......I'll snap'em up all day long, but I have the understanding that all I'm really buying is the neck&body. "Ruby" came with linear-taper minipots and those godawful green caps(I call'em "chicklets")....extreme low-budget crap that did this guitar a great injustice.....thoroughly enjoyed tossing that shit in the garbage in favor of CTS 500K longshaft audio-tapers, and Sprague OD's(.022 in the bridge, and a .010 for the neck..really sweetens it up). Had to run a round file through the shaft holes to open them up for the SAE-sized pots, but other than that....I love working on stuff, modding it to do what I want.

Leftstrat....a good friend of mine has an Epi Standard flametop. BEAUTIFUL guitar, but he's had issues galore with frets popping up.

Thanks for the warning. It isn't the first time I've heard that some Epi's have had that issue. You'd think that the QC would be a little better than that.

[Sleek]

Sadly, he has earned that reputation. He's still finishing a 1 p/u custom for me.

That's the one I've been wondering about. It has been a LONG time. I remember when that thread started on MLP. We have to have pics when you finally get it. Good craftsmanship is worth waiting for.

Within reason.

I put him to work on a guitar over 10 years ago...basically a solid-body rickenbacker 360 v64...I gave him $350 and a book on Rics to get started, and after about 6 months, he showed me the wood he had bought...then he eventually moved several times and I never heard from him again.

Essentially he "slowed" himself right out of ever building that guitar. He did the same thing to one of my bass players from the late '90's...he started an instrument fir him and just sorta...never...finished. (I saw the rough carve on that one in his shop once.)

I have known him forever, and I like him as a guy, but I wouldn't give him money to build anything. Your experience may vary.

[lerxstcat]

Sadly, he has earned that reputation. He's still finishing a 1 p/u custom for me.

That's the one I've been wondering about. It has been a LONG time. I remember when that thread started on MLP. We have to have pics when you finally get it. Good craftsmanship is worth waiting for.

Within reason.

I put him to work on a guitar over 10 years ago...basically a solid-body rickenbacker 360 v64...I gave him $350 and a book on Rics to get started, and after about 6 months, he showed me the wood he had bought...then he eventually moved several times and I never heard from him again.

Essentially he "slowed" himself right out of ever building that guitar. He did the same thing to one of my bass players from the late '90's...he started an instrument fir him and just sorta...never...finished. (I saw the rough carve on that one in his shop once.)

I have known him forever, and I like him as a guy, but I wouldn't give him money to build anything. Your experience may vary.

Did he ever refund your deposit or is he still claiming to be working on it?

[Sleek]

Did he ever refund your deposit or is he still claiming to be working on it?

He just basically moved. I lost contact with him after that, and he never got in touch with me.

I (think) I found him on a social networking site a while back and sent a message, but got no reply.

As a businessperson, I would think the onus was on him to find his customers after a move...

[lerxstcat]

Did he ever refund your deposit or is he still claiming to be working on it?

He just basically moved. I lost contact with him after that, and he never got in touch with me.

I (think) I found him on a social networking site a while back and sent a message, but got no reply.

As a businessperson, I would think the onus was on him to find his customers after a move...

Oh I agree! That is fucked up! Is he a dopehead or something where he might have conceivably forgotten? I know, fat chance, but possible in L.A., no?

El Toro obviously has his correct contact info and I can't see any reason he wouldn't give it to you. You don't have to tell Rist how you got his info. I would dog his ass until the end of time on principle, and demand my Rickenbacker book back too!

[Sleek]

Oh I agree! That is fucked up! Is he a dopehead or something where he might have conceivably forgotten? I know, fat chance, but possible in L.A., no?

El Toro obviously has his correct contact info and I can't see any reason he wouldn't give it to you. You don't have to tell Rist how you got his info. I would dog his ass until the end of time on principle, and demand my Rickenbacker book back too!

Meh. I just kind of don't want to deal with it any more. As it is, it's in the past, lesson learned, and I am fine with that.

[lerxstcat]

Oh I agree! That is fucked up! Is he a dopehead or something where he might have conceivably forgotten? I know, fat chance, but possible in L.A., no?

El Toro obviously has his correct contact info and I can't see any reason he wouldn't give it to you. You don't have to tell Rist how you got his info. I would dog his ass until the end of time on principle, and demand my Rickenbacker book back too!

Meh. I just kind of don't want to deal with it any more. As it is, it's in the past, lesson learned, and I am fine with that.

You're a better man than I, then. I would never stop reminding him that he burned me. I wonder how many other people that he did the same thing to? That reminds me of the other Roman, The Evil Leprechaun Ed Roman.