How "at capacity" do venues need to be at to make $$$?

[aznsquirt]

The Slash thread got me wondering. I've never had any real idea how "full" a venue needs to be in order to keep the lights on, etc.

People seem to talk about "half full" shows like they're a total disaster, but are they? I have no idea.

Obviously this varies with a TON of variables, ticket prices, their individual overhead, etc. I'm sure there are situations where a low-attendance show on a Tuesday is still better than nothing, and is made up for later in the week, etc.

And of course I'm sure sometimes when a band can't get booked at a certain size venue it's not because it wouldn't have been profitable, there are just other acts to fill those slots that would be moreso.

So there's a lot going on there, and maybe it varies too much to even have general answers, but I'd love to hear any thoughts from people around here who are in the know.

[ijwthstd]

I don't have any real answer beyond speculation in between of tidbits of info but

"People seem to talk about "half full" shows like they're a total disaster, but are they? I have no idea."

And to keep the lights on? It might be the total number of events not people thru the door overall, not just any specific event.

Also might depend on if the venue controls the parking or not.

The Forum regularly books shows now that will only pull 5000 but they own the lot ($50-ish) and there is limited offsite parking. They are exclusively concerts now so they probably need a lot of events, but how many people can realistically sell it out?

An outside promoter might have a contract to bring so many acts to a venue in a year, then the venues pay rebates on the ticket fees after that. (Venues usually take 50% and up on the fees).

The Forum 5000 x $10 in ticket fees is $50000 plus 2000 cars at $50 is 100,000 and a $10 (low) average concessions per cap is another $50,000. So that's $200,000 gross on an event with 5000 tix sold.

Venues only open during the summer need a lot of events packing the calendar every day, and they can't all be sellouts. A lot of teams don't sell all that many tickets but still play their games year in year out.

Amphitheatres have a fixed stage but also a limited time frame. I think people spend more on food and drinks outdoors too though I have no evidence for this claim.

I have no idea what I am talking about, except to few events sell all the tickets but the industry is still rolling along just fine. And if you have 5000 fans in Jacksonville and haven't played there in 5 years, do you really wanna play the Florida Theatre for 3 nights?

[WOLF]

A lot of the answer has to do with if it’s a corporately (often Live Nation) owned venue, or a privately held club.

In the case of a Live Nation owned venue, they are the promoter, the ticket seller, and a venue. So even though there’s overhead/staffing/etc. to pay for the venue, they are paying the artists a guarantee and then going to town on ticket sales, fees, parking, concessions, and % of merch. That’s why they will book a show they know can only sell 5000 regular priced tickets into a shed, as they will do discounts (4 packs, $25 concert week), contests and giveaways, and take the loss on ticket sales, as they know, on average, every head will spend X$ on everything else.

Clubs working with local promoters is a much smaller version of the same thing, and that’s why you will often see great little venues go out of business. In a perfect world a promoter is renting the venue from them, the show does well, and they can make a killing at the bar, but if there’s weak attendance, or not a lot of shows coming through town, things can go south fast.

So there’s no set number, it’s just how you run your business. How much is your rent? How much inventory do you have on hand? How much are you paying to staff the place? VS What you are taking in.

[Bob Sacamano]

It depends how big of a drinking crowd is there.

[Rocker4Real]

It depends how big of a drinking crowd is there.

This is true. Clubs can get three openers to buy on and drag out the night so people will keep drinking so their buzz doesn't wear off when the headliner comes on at 10.

[ijwthstd]

It depends how big of a drinking crowd is there.

This is true. Clubs can get three openers to buy on and drag out the night so people will keep drinking so their buzz doesn't wear off when they headliner comes on at 10.

I just avoid shit like this now. If I don't get an idea when the band I wanna see is going on I just don't bother.

And according to whoever Lefsetz had on a few weeks ago who runs First Avenue (Minneapolis), younger crowds not drinking at all is definitely a thing.

[Playboyliquor59]

I’ve been booking shows for 20 years and there a ton of different variables. Obviously an independent club is different compared to live nation filling up a calander of summer shows. In the club setting where I work, I have purchased many packages that have lost money or barely break even to have “history” with that band and the agent. For example, I did the first Paramore shows in NJ and NYC early on for let’s say $500 on a weeknight because I know the agent and we have a relationship. He then hooks me up with packages that are guaranteed money. For doing those shows early on, I get offered the band when they were drawing 2000 people then 10k etc Countless stories of throwing and agent a bone to be given first right when the next routing is planned. Agents have to break baby bands and if the camp is happy with how you treat them, they don’t forget and you later on.

Capacity really doesn’t mean anything either, the show could even be a door deal. It’s basically just a math equation of what the guarantee is for it to make sense for you.

[aznsquirt]

I’ve been booking shows for 20 years and there a ton of different variables. Obviously an independent club is different compared to live nation filling up a calander of summer shows. In the club setting where I work, I have purchased many packages that have lost money or barely break even to have “history” with that band and the agent. For example, I did the first Paramore shows in NJ and NYC early on for let’s say $500 on a weeknight because I know the agent and we have a relationship. He then hooks me up with packages that are guaranteed money. For doing those shows early on, I get offered the band when they were drawing 2000 people then 10k etc Countless stories of throwing and agent a bone to be given first right when the next routing is planned. Agents have to break baby bands and if the camp is happy with how you treat them, they don’t forget and you later on.

Capacity really doesn’t mean anything either, the show could even be a door deal. It’s basically just a math equation of what the guarantee is for it to make sense for you.

So there’s no set number, it’s just how you run your business. How much is your rent? How much inventory do you have on hand? How much are you paying to staff the place? VS What you are taking in.

That's kind of what I figured. Thanks guys.

[Fletch]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

[PBFSUCKS]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out. I guess it’s not generating to many younger fans.

Merch is also outrageous now. (I get it, nobody is buying records anymore) 50 for a tshirt….no thanks….especially a band Tshirt.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out.

Where?

[Darrien]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out. I guess it’s not generating to many younger fans.

Merch is also outrageous now. (I get it, nobody is buying records anymore) 50 for a tshirt….no thanks….especially a band Tshirt.

Well despite Nuno's talents, Extreme has always been a pretty cringe level hair metal band. Can't imagine many shelling out $50 to wear an Extreme t shirt.

[ijwthstd]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I wanted to go here but tix were over $50, before fees I think.

Now even the "cheap" shows I used to go to so much are $40-60 which has me getting more selective there too.

[LAglamrocker]

Better get tickets now for
Tuff Aug 23
Jesus Jones Aug 24
both at Whisky!
Aug 25 Def Leppard at Sofi.. good view of Kia Forum where Hurl Jam plays…grunge arena rock
Hysteria stadium RAWK summer 2024!

Tuff and Jesus Jones ..Back To Back like Showtime Lakers!

[Rocker4Real]

Better get tickets now for
Tuff Aug 23
Jesus Jones Aug 24
both at Whisky!
Aug 25 Def Leppard at Sofi.. good view of Kia Forum where Hurl Jam plays…grunge arena rock
Hysteria stadium RAWK summer 2024!

Tuff and Jesus Jones ..Back To Back like Showtime Lakers!

You forgot Stonebreed plays the Whisky Aug 15

[Bono Nettencourt]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I wanted to go here but tix were over $50, before fees I think.

Now even the "cheap" shows I used to go to so much are $40-60 which has me getting more selective there too.

Yeah tough to pony up $50 to see LC and Extreme now when I spent less than that to see them on separate occasions in 90 and 91

[PBFSUCKS]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out.

Where?

The cover of Guitar World and every fucking YouTube guitarist channel, including Rick Beato who has 4 million subscribers.

Do you live under a rock or just on this this website?

[LAglamrocker]

U think people will fly in week early for da breed?
Ya know maybe they will cancel Monsters Of Rock Cruise on Land plans for da breed.
Tuff —Jones-Leppard vs da breed

Guess I’m changing my plans- that Last Dollar song is the GOAT

da breed has big time guarantee
Tuff tip jar is on second floor- if you go donate some spare change- singer needs Brazil 2025 money
#3 1991 was long time ago

[Fletch]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I wanted to go here but tix were over $50, before fees I think.

Now even the "cheap" shows I used to go to so much are $40-60 which has me getting more selective there too.

I think that’s about what I paid (after fees it was about 75 I think) and it was in the balcony overlooking the stage with a barstool seat. I was pretty happy with it

[Fletch]

Last week I saw Extreme and Living Colour play in a really nice larger sized club - it probably held 1100 minimum and I’d say that there was maybe 500 there at best and that’s being generous. I’d assume that both bands have a decent guarantee so I’d also have guessed the promoter took a huge hit. The venue looked like it was doing fine in the beverage sales but hardly anyone was buying any merch. Parking was a steal at $5.

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out.

Where?

I saw them at a venue called Mars Music Hall in Huntsville Alabama.

[Fletch]

I was wondering how those shows were selling. Nuno got more press than any other guitar player in rock when Rise came out.

Where?

I just looked up their website - I thought it held 1100 but it’s actually almost 1600. Nuno said in between songs early in the set this was supposedly the smallest crowd they’d played in front of on this tour (but it didn’t need to mean the quietest). The folks that were there were really on to it.

I’d say after More Than Words was played, the crowd thinned out to maybe 300 or so.