What revelations are you still waiting for?

[SchenkerFan]

For example: Sixx didn't play bass on the first Motley albums. Mick Mars was actually born in the 40s.

What else?

[Black Stuff]

Who raped Jani Lane?

[HoldenSSV]

DLR coming out.

Concrete proof of ghost musicians on popular albums.

[BernieTaupson]

Anyone who thinks Roth is gay has never met any actual gay people.

Paul Stanley or Gary Cherone, yeah maybe.

[VincentVanWinger]

I want to know who was writing for all the hair bands. Cinderella, Motley, Slaughter, Skid Row, etc. Because none of these dudes have been able to write shit for the past 30 years. Like how do you write all those iconic songs over a 8-12 year period and then all at once for everybody the well just goes dry? what all because mtv stopped playing your videos you can't write a song anymore? I think all those hair bands were every bit as manufactured and put together as the boy bands were.

I think Jani wrote his shit. I believe Jon and RS wrote shit. I think Joe, Sav and Phil actually wrote although you can see post Mutt who the real talent was in that band. Most of the rest I seriously have my doubts.

I think all the hair metal ghost writers moved over to country and once the hair bands were left on their own they got exposed.

I think main stream professional music is a smoke show. I have seriously begun to wonder just how 'talented' many of these people actually are/were.

[Chip Z'Hoy]

Like how do you write all those iconic songs over a 8-12 year period and then all at once for everybody the well just goes dry? what all because mtv stopped playing your videos you can't write a song anymore?

Interesting. I never really thought of it this way, but you're right.

Every band jumps the shark eventually, but with all these bands, that jump coincided with MTV dropping their asses. Poison didn't have another "Fallen Angel" up their sleeves? They couldn't crank out another "I Want Action" in 2002?

Not talking about hits--obviously if MTV refused to play it, there wasn't much else they could do. But post-1991, you don't hear anything close to "18 & Life" or "Up All Night."

I'm leaning towards simple laziness--no incentive of success = no real effort made--but for ALL of them?

[HueyRamone]

Like how do you write all those iconic songs over a 8-12 year period and then all at once for everybody the well just goes dry? what all because mtv stopped playing your videos you can't write a song anymore?

Interesting. I never really thought of it this way, but you're right.

Every band jumps the shark eventually, but with all these bands, that jump coincided with MTV dropping their asses. Poison didn't have another "Fallen Angel" up their sleeves? They couldn't crank out another "I Want Action" in 2002?

Not talking about hits--obviously if MTV refused to play it, there wasn't much else they could do. But post-1991, you don't hear anything close to "18 & Life" or "Up All Night."

I'm leaning towards simple laziness--no incentive of success = no real effort made--but for ALL of them?

I do think, except for some outliers like Priest (the one with Half, not the one with Merc), all bands are only good on their first 5 albums. Then they go to ok, and then they go to bad.

I dont think Maiden had outside help, but they just couldnt write for shite once they turned 30.

The other bands? You may have a point. In the same way that their album covers went to shit, when they didnt have the major labels bringing professionals in, could explain why the songs went to shit as well.

[LAglamrocker]

Wolfie calorie count
Wolfie step count
Wolfie can he jump

[SterileEyes1]

I want to know who was writing for all the hair bands. Cinderella, Motley, Slaughter, Skid Row, etc. Because none of these dudes have been able to write shit for the past 30 years. Like how do you write all those iconic songs over a 8-12 year period and then all at once for everybody the well just goes dry? what all because mtv stopped playing your videos you can't write a song anymore? I think all those hair bands were every bit as manufactured and put together as the boy bands were.

There might be something to this especially when you consider their production teams. At the same time most songwriters are going to tell you that it flows when you’re young/dumb/hungry/loaded and gets much harder as you inevitably become less of each of these things with age and success.

[Sleek]

I do think, except for some outliers like Priest (the one with Half, not the one with Merc), all bands are only good on their first 5 albums. Then they go to ok, and then they go to bad.

I dont think Maiden had outside help, but they just couldnt write for shite once they turned 30.

There are other obvious exceptions...like BOB SEGER® who had 7 albums out before he even broke through, the Beatles, who never had a drop in quality, or Rod Stewart who put out 12 amazing records between '68 and '75.

I think that there are quite a few bands from that era where the labels used to put money into artist development that did not hit their stride until a few albums in. Nowadays, bands are expected to come out fully formed.

[SchenkerFan]

Like how do you write all those iconic songs over a 8-12 year period and then all at once for everybody the well just goes dry? what all because mtv stopped playing your videos you can't write a song anymore?

Interesting. I never really thought of it this way, but you're right.

Every band jumps the shark eventually, but with all these bands, that jump coincided with MTV dropping their asses. Poison didn't have another "Fallen Angel" up their sleeves? They couldn't crank out another "I Want Action" in 2002?

Not talking about hits--obviously if MTV refused to play it, there wasn't much else they could do. But post-1991, you don't hear anything close to "18 & Life" or "Up All Night."

I'm leaning towards simple laziness--no incentive of success = no real effort made--but for ALL of them?

I do think, except for some outliers like Priest (the one with Half, not the one with Merc), all bands are only good on their first 5 albums. Then they go to ok, and then they go to bad.

I dont think Maiden had outside help, but they just couldnt write for shite once they turned 30.

The other bands? You may have a point. In the same way that their album covers went to shit, when they didnt have the major labels bringing professionals in, could explain why the songs went to shit as well.

I mostly agree with this but I think it has more to do with age than with the amount of albums. By 30 or 40, most musicians have blown their creative load and you won't get another Appetite for Destruction or Slave to the Grind out of them. There are some exceptions where older bands have released some really strong albums, for example Winger's Karma or Accept's Blood of Nations. But those are just the exceptions that confirm the rule. A lot of them become very mediocre over time and some turn to absolute shit.

When the hair band era was over, most of those guys were close to 30. A lot of them lost their deal and by the time they reunited, they were way past their prime. So I'm not surprised that none of them wrote another brilliant song that rivalled the stuff in their heyday. This is far from unique to hair bands. It's just how this thing works.

[layne_says]

who wrote "close my eyes forever" because it sure wasn't ozzy and lita.

[TooOldToCare]

I'm waiting for The Rapture, when all the fucking religious zealots leave this planet for good. Ah, shit, I thought you meant the Book of Revelations.

[ParaDime77]

What doe Bert look like without the sewn on bandana?

[ParaDime77]

What does Bert look like without the sewn on bandana?

[aznsquirt]

I mostly agree with this but I think it has more to do with age than with the amount of albums. By 30 or 40, most musicians have blown their creative load and you won't get another Appetite for Destruction or Slave to the Grind out of them. There are some exceptions where older bands have released some really strong albums, for example Winger IV or Accept's Blood of Nations.

FYP.

Anyway, It's an interesting subject.

Picking Def Leppard and Bon Jovi as examples of people who "definitely wrote their own shit" is very strange because those are two biggest examples of bands who openly had their biggest hits and sound written/influenced by others in their hey day. Mutt was everything for Def Leppard, and Desmond Child is basically the reason Bon Jovi being a big 80s band and being the absolute megastars that they were, and Max Martin writing "It's My Life" is a huge reason they managed to bridge the gap to being stars in the post-grunge days.

With the others, I really do think it's mostly just a combo of a few things. Just getting older and losing that youthful drive/inspiration is most of it, IMO. Being young/hungry/focused is a lot different than being older/jaded/confused/feeling the need to chase trends, etc.

I also think a lot of times these bands do write some good songs in their later years, and our ears don't hear them as such because it's not the fresh/exciting sound it was 20 years before.

I've always thought that some of the best music comes from the combo of experienced/polished musicians randomly finding a moment of inspiration, often times in the context of a concept album. Winger IV and Tales From The Strip come to mind.

Not to get super deep philosophically, but there also might be sort of a "1000 monkeys on typewriters will eventually write a brilliant novel" effect.

For example, 100 medicore songwriters get signed and put out a major label release. No matter how medicore they all are, a handful of them will stumble onto a big radio hit (especially with great producers in the room polishing their ideas).

So 95 of those bands disappear and the 5 that got lucky get to put out more music, but are still medicore songwriters and you're incredibly lucky if any of them continue to write great songs. Obviously it's more complex than that, but you get the idea.

[FreddyFender]

99% of bands only have a couple good albums because those albums were made when they had no kids, no serious relationships, were probably either living at home or in a band house, and all they did was work on the music.

Day and night. 3-4 rehearsals a week. No distractions outside of partying later that night.

That is not what life is like past your mid twenties, so it’s no surprise the quality plummets. Only a handful of people touch by God have the talent to just release great album after great album.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Please let my mother live.

[Rocker4Real]

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the stories we've heard through the years were either made up or exaggerated. It was too easy to do at the time. Unless you were in their inner circle, you probably wouldn't know.

[Hellsinkey]

Judas Priest releasing the songs they recorded with Stock, Aitken and Waterman. They have nothing to lose at this stage.

[VincentVanWinger]

To go a bit more on my point. You had all these guys that are regarded as really good lyricists. Nikki, Joe/Phil, Jon/Richie, Jani, Tom Kiefer, Bret, Dave,Rachel, etc.
The tide turns, the labels move onto grunge and now none of these guys can write ANYTHING remotely close to their previous stuff.

Like a lot of what these bands have done since isn't just 'not as good'...it's bad.

Of course there are the usual reasons. Got sober. Got rich. Had kids. New stuff wasn't charting so why bother. Top producers started working with younger bands or switched genres altogether. No radio/mtv/label support killed motivation.

While much of that plays a role I just find it really suspicious that even as hair metal had its nostalgia rebirth and guys bank accounts started to dry up they none of them could come up with anything good. I don't expect a 50 year old millionaire Nikki to write Wild Side and I know as we got older our tastes have changed....but...it's just fishy that so many guys all at the same time just couldn't write anymore even when there was a reason too. Like when these bands started to gain some renewed interest and became 'cool' again they still couldn't muster anything close to what they had just 10-15 years prior.

It makes me wonder why bands like GnR and Cinderella just refuse to make new stuff. Maybe because they literally can't.

I also wonder because around 1994 is when I started to like country music. Because that's where the hooks were. I love hooky, melodic songs they tell a story or invoke emotions. Nirvana didn't do that for me. I had to go to country for that kind of music. Early 2000s country was basically hair metal with a twang. A Rascal Flats was concert was a Def Leppard concert at one point.

And I know Bon Jovi and Def Leppard had a ton of help. I even mentioned Mutt. But looking at what both bands have done and sounded since 2000 I can at least buy they had a hand in crafting their music in the 80s. Some of these other bands not so sure they were as legit or prolific as we have been led to believe.

If Nikki has been proven a fraud in other areas why do we still think he wrote a damn thing? It's a marketing fairy tale.

Just something to ponder. I'm sure it's partly I'm getting older more jaded and there is so much Bs, fake shit. Nothing feels organic or authentic. We know pop and to a degree country is mostly manufactured by a team of people but we've always held the 80s rock gods to a certain standard. A mythology of drugged out dudes in a van writing Too Fast For Love or Welcome to the Jungle. Whatever.

Like anything the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Rocker4Real]

As far as JBJ, ever notice he all of a sudden starts writing a lot of songs by himself on Blaze Of Glory and Keep The Faith? I think Aldo Nova claimed to write some of "Blaze of Glory" in an interview. Jon had a ton of money at the time to pay ghostwriters and keep the publishing.

[Jason Jennifer Leigh]

I think Aldo Nova wrote the riff.

I’m waiting to hear how Paul Stanley became the greatest lipsyncher of all time … which alien technology were they using to pull this off? It’s more than just backing tracks.

[Jason Jennifer Leigh]

Jon’s ego today and the past 35 years would never let him pay somebody to completely write a song for him.

He can still write a song it’s just missing the guitar solo and Richie’s vocals …. Phil X says Jon wants the guitars low in the mix now.

[Rocker4Real]

Jon’s ego today and the past 35 years would never let him pay somebody to completely write a song for him.

He can still write a song it’s just missing the guitar solo and Richie’s vocals …. Phil X says Jon wants the guitars low in the mix now.

The co-writer for Runaway said he wrote most of the song. Jon could pay someone to write with him and keep them off the publishing. Or he could have improved his songwriting and that's why he wrote more on his own. I hope that's true. Bon Jovi was my favorite band growing up.

[HoldenSSV]

Somebody, somewhere kept a copy of the Def Leppard/Jim Steinman Hysteria mess.

[Mister Freeze]

Somebody, somewhere kept a copy of the Def Leppard/Jim Steinman Hysteria mess.

"Turn around Adrenalize..."

[Mister Freeze]

Jon’s ego today and the past 35 years would never let him pay somebody to completely write a song for him.

He can still write a song it’s just missing the guitar solo and Richie’s vocals …. Phil X says Jon wants the guitars low in the mix now.

The co-writer for Runaway said he wrote most of the song. Jon could pay someone to write with him and keep them off the publishing. Or he could have improved his songwriting and that's why he wrote more on his own. I hope that's true. Bon Jovi was my favorite band growing up.

I bought a CD of Jon Bon Jovi's old Power Station demos. Thought I'd have an album full of Runaways. Nothing sounded like Runaway.

[Rocker4Real]

Jon’s ego today and the past 35 years would never let him pay somebody to completely write a song for him.

He can still write a song it’s just missing the guitar solo and Richie’s vocals …. Phil X says Jon wants the guitars low in the mix now.

The co-writer for Runaway said he wrote most of the song. Jon could pay someone to write with him and keep them off the publishing. Or he could have improved his songwriting and that's why he wrote more on his own. I hope that's true. Bon Jovi was my favorite band growing up.

I bought a CD of Jon Bon Jovi's old Power Station demos. Thought I'd have an album full of Runaways. Nothing sounded like Runaway.

I remember Doc dismissed Jon's early stuff as being too much like Southside Johnny.

[Love_Industry]

A mythology of drugged out dudes in a van writing Too Fast For Love or Welcome to the Jungle. Whatever.

Like anything the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I get your point but those aren't good examples as they were both played live before the bands got signed. Mötley even self released their debut and so did Poison. At that point, they couldn't afford hiring pro songwriters.

If this happened it would be bands who were signed, had a platinum album or a few and while the label pumped money into them, they just couldn't deliver. I could see a label pay for that rather than hiring a pro to work on some no-name band's debut.

Some bands did it openly, Scorps had Jim Vallance all over Crazy World, Cooper had Desmond Child on Trash and Aerosmith had both of them on Pump and PV. Others may have done it without crediting the co-writers, or had them working on ideas from the band kinda like Ezrin frankensteined together half of Destroyer from demos that sounded like Dressed to Kill rejects so the band would still technically write the songs.

If I have to name some suspects - Dr Feelgood, Flesh & Blood, Slave to the Grind. Follow-ups to big sellers that displayed influences their previous albums didn't.