Killeverything's (New)NeverEndingBaseballThread

[Gritt]

Next hall of question that I'll throw out for debate: best non-steroid pitcher not in the hall that should be? My vote is Jack Morris.

That's a good question. I was never a Morris fan but I understand the debate. I believe Curt Schilling warrants consideration. His records are just below the minimum ( remember how awful the Astros and Philly were ), except if you factor in his post-season success it tilts in his favor.

That's kind of what would be the argument for Andy Pettite if he didn't use PEDs. Andy immediately admitted and apologized. That also might work in his favor.

Using the low win total because they played for awful teams. Bret Saberhagen makes a strong case for induction also.

The Mussina, Cone, ( possibly Morris ) and Tiant just miss the cut. Tiant was better than a few of some HOF pitchers. Something about him doesn't scream HOF'er. I dunno.


JC Ramirez acquired by Seattle.

Supposedly the Nats are close to getting Kimbrel from SD and TX leads for Hammels. Houston is going all out to land Cole too.

***Apparently the Dodgers let teams know Puig is available in the right deal.

Schilling would be next on my list. His postseason dominance gets him there for me. I use that same criteria with Jack Morris.

I don't really care about win totals (although I know real voters do) because you can be dominant on a shit team and have a losing record.

When I think all time greats I don't think of Cone and Mussina or even Pettite. They were very good but if I had to win a game and I had to choose between them or guys like Schilling and Morris, they aren't getting the ball.

Saberhagen is a real interesting one because we will just never know how great he could have been due to his injuries.

[killeverything]

Blue Jays acquire SS Troy Tulowitzki. Jose Reyes and minor leaguers headed to Colrado with LaTroy Hawkins going to Toronto. The team that has no trouble scoring runs and is missing pitching adds another bat? Mmkay.

[UtahRatt]

***Apparently the Dodgers let teams know Puig is available in the right deal.

Dodgers open to Puig deal if return is right! Funny part is all the teams are interested in their two top prospects and not Puig.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/139153102 ... asiel-puig

I hate the player, don't like him on my favorite team either. But if he ever matured and got healthy he'd be a monster.

But it will never happen because he's Puig. LAD has done a good job cleaning up their dugout, I think it's the only reason they've managed to stay in first for so long but it's about to change.

SF 0.5 back.

[Leppardmania]

***Apparently the Dodgers let teams know Puig is available in the right deal.

Dodgers open to Puig deal if return is right! Funny part is all the teams are interested in their two top prospects and not Puig.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/139153102 ... asiel-puig

I hate the player, don't like him on my favorite team either. But if he ever matured and got healthy he'd be a monster.

But it will never happen because he's Puig. LAD has done a good job cleaning up their dugout, I think it's the only reason they've managed to stay in first for so long but it's about to change.

SF 0.5 back.

If they are in 1st place, why do they want to trade this kid? I thought he was supposed to be the next Roberto Clemente for years to come.

[LAPoet]

As a Giants fan, August's schedule has me a little nervous. SF plays the Cardinals twice, the Cubs twice, the Nats and the Pirates.

[killeverything]

A's trade Zobrist to Royals for prospects.

Pappelbon will be traded according to Amarro Jr., rival execs expect LAD to land either Hammels or Price, Detroit still not certain their in sell mode; looking to land Mike Leake.

*edit

Pappelbon traded to Nats. Takes millions less to leave Philly.
How did the MLBPA let him renegotiate his contract? Is that something they only don't allow if it's a player the MFY wants?

[Machado]

Jenrry Mejia failed another PED test. Banned 162 games.
No wonder Mets acquired Clippard via trade

Papelbon traded to Nats. The curse continues

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

Papelbon to Nationals for AA pitcher. He will take over closer role from Drew Storen. Presumably Ken Giles and his 100 mph fastball take over Philly's closing duties.

[killeverything]

Papelbon traded to Nats. The curse continues

What curse is that? The Nats are a newish organization that more than likely would've won the WS ( as Montreal ) if the strike didn't happen. Pappelbon won a ring in 2007, the Phillies in 2008. So again, what curse, Forrest?



Angels acquire David DeJesus and also David Murphy.

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

The curse of the complicated toilet.

[UtahRatt]

He probably thinks Papelbon is still in Boston and the curse started because they didn't win last year.

[killeverything]

Sonny Gray throws a 3 hit shutout vs the Dodgers. 1 walk & 9 K's! Eat shit, Billy Beane-head...oh wait, I better shut up cuz Gray could still be traded!

I'll never understand the Donaldson trade, it must have been a clubhouse issue. That said, with the exception of trading Huston Street ( Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! ) Beane has always done really well of cutting pitchers when they lose their "ace" ability ( Zito, Mulder ), or when they're about to hit free agency ( Hudson ). Being outbid for both Isringhausen and Foulke taught him a lesson.

[killeverything]

The A's need an owner who will spend, a new stadium and a GM who isn't stuck in his "Brad Pitt portrayed me in a Hollywood movie" ego!

I agree with your statements about the owner. Beane though, if that dude had the financial freedom ( like if he would have taken Boston's offer ) to run a team exactly how he wants to? I think he could build a system that surpasses St. Louis in success.

[UtahRatt]

I have no doubt if Beane had money to work with he'd build a championship team at a fraction of what the the Yankee's payroll forced other teams to do. Dodgers, Boston and others buying teams to compete. Before the system was implemented, for the last 100 years teams basically had to spend Yankee money to compete forcing small markets to get crafty before Free Agency and more so afterwords. Now Sabermetrics is used in several sports and it's proven to work. It's also harder with more teams using it so Beane needs more freedom from a tight ass owner. A lot of good players have came and went through Oakland.

-------------------------------------

The Oakland Coliseum is almost my Graceland but it's fucking done, it's old, smells, watching football played on dirt is embarrassing, how it's set up during football you're way back from the field depending on the seats with odd corners....It's a Wreck. With The Raiders certainly leaving it still needs to be demolished. It would be nice to see the A's get a new stadium as well as the Raider's, hopefully in Oakland.

[UtahRatt]

Hanley Ramirez having one of worst months of his career.

Ramirez came into Tuesday night's game against the Chicago White Sox with a .207/.244/.402/.647 slash line, with 7 extra base hits (2 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs) and 9 RBIs. In April, he hit 10 home runs and drove in 22 runs. In nearly three months since, he has 9 home runs and 25 RBIs.

Among Sox players with at least 200 at-bats since May 1, only Pablo Sandoval has a lower on-base average (.274) than Ramirez's .299. Only Sandoval (21) and Dustin Pedroia (24) have fewer RBIs.

[killeverything]

I agree but in Oakland, due to the cheap owner he doesn't have any financial freedom & his methods are antiquated & used by every other team! He doesn't seem to be willing to try a different approach. Everyone uses the approach that made him famous, maybe it's time to try something new because it no longer works for the A's!

I disagree with this currently. After the "Moneyball" approach was utilized by everyone ( even ESPN knows about it ), he brought in Melvin and signed more role players emphasizing a higher flyball to groundball ratio. This is 2013ish. For the most part it worked, but as he said in 'Moneyball' ( book ) "my shit don't work in the Playoffs."

You've got to give Beane credit of thinking outside of the box and doing what it takes to win. It still blows my mind the comeback KC mounted against Lester, because those trades were awesome. Cespedes' best days are behind him. I don't know what he's doing now, but if there was anybody I would have faith in, it's Beane.

[killeverything]

Hanley Ramirez having one of worst months of his career.

Ramirez came into Tuesday night's game against the Chicago White Sox with a .207/.244/.402/.647 slash line, with 7 extra base hits (2 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs) and 9 RBIs. In April, he hit 10 home runs and drove in 22 runs. In nearly three months since, he has 9 home runs and 25 RBIs.

Among Sox players with at least 200 at-bats since May 1, only Pablo Sandoval has a lower on-base average (.274) than Ramirez's .299. Only Sandoval (21) and Dustin Pedroia (24) have fewer RBIs.

The best thing to happen to SF was Fat Panda and his stupid agent being "offended" by Sabean's offer. Supposedly they had a weight, diet, and excercise clause. While he redeemed himself in 2012 and 2014, Sandoval sat the entire 2010 playoff run ( I think he pinch hit twice ). He was slumping too bad and too fat to play.

Fenway park is kicking his ass. With it being built on a marshland that field is always kind of bumpy. It made Adrian Beltre look like a lesser 3B ( one of the best defensively ), it fucked with Edgar Renteria ( good everywhere else apparently ) at short too.

So he's already passed his error total for last season. Is going to age badly so he's going to have to move to DH. Except he's never hit .300 in a season or more than 20HRs. That was a stupid, stupid signing.

The debate about bad contract/big name free agents being Epstein's fault or Luccino's. I think has been answered.

[UtahRatt]

Dodgers open to Puig deal if return is right! Funny part is all the teams are interested in their two top prospects and not Puig.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/139153102 ... asiel-puig

If they are in 1st place, why do they want to trade this kid? I thought he was supposed to be the next Roberto Clemente for years to come.

He's a bitch enigma.

You know how most Rookies are not ready for the pro's because they're devolving their skills. Puig was never groomed, he got off the boat from Cuba in rags, given money and went straight to the pros and is in desperate need of a humbling experience. He has the skills but after 2 years Puig isn't mature and is still adjusting to the Pros. The culture, going from poor to rich, big ego, being a professional.

Puig is a problem in the dugout, injury prone and less than stellar since last September. He's unpredictable, disrespectful, throws tantrums, fights and is hard to coach. He's still Raw. He's got talent and all the skills to be a stud just not the brains.
He jumped off the boat, sparked a team to the playoffs and it's been down hill since. His first year he was showing up late to meetings, arrested in Florida for doing 110MPH. It seems he's been better off the field but is still a problem in the dugout and not popular with his teammates.
Over the weekend I watched him throw out a runner trying to turn a double off the fence, it was beautiful play, a dead on laser throw. Still fun to watch.
Anyway, he comes from a different culture and hopes are he'll grow up, I'm hoping this bad year and trade rumors humble him. If he gets his head on straight, adapts and starts acting like a professional I think he'll be a star. I bet in 5 years and two teams later he becomes one.

The Dodgers trade rumor. Doubtful Puig goes anywhere because he's locked for several years, comes cheap and is well productive for the price. I don't think another team would be willing to give up what LAD wants for him. Unless Puig is part of a Cole Hamels trade I think he stays.

Dodgers round up.....
Joc Peterson is in a major rookie slump swinging at everything, went from BB's to SO's.
Between Joc and Puig slumping along with Jimmy Rollins hitting .210 and only having 2 pitchers puts the Dodgers in trouble.
It's bad enough I can see the Dodgers doing little by the trade deadline.
I can't see LAD renting a free agent to shoot for the playoffs with the problems they have and the contracts they have coming up.
One thing holding it together is Rollins has been hitting over the last few weeks other wise their top prospect Corey Seager would be possibly be called up, Rollins traded or released and LAD would sit back and roll the rest of the season.


All that means The Giants take the Division and one less team for the Cub's to battle for the WC.

[killeverything]

Dodgers open to Puig deal if return is right! Funny part is all the teams are interested in their two top prospects and not Puig.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/139153102 ... asiel-puig

If they are in 1st place, why do they want to trade this kid? I thought he was supposed to be the next Roberto Clemente for years to come.

He's a bitch enigma.

You know how most Rookies are not ready for the pro's because they're devolving their skills. Puig was never groomed, he got off the boat from Cuba in rags, given money and went straight to the pros and is in desperate need of a humbling experience. He has the skills but after 2 years Puig isn't mature and is still adjusting to the Pros. The culture, going from poor to rich, big ego, being a professional.

Puig is a problem in the dugout, injury prone and less than stellar since last September. He's unpredictable, disrespectful, throws tantrums, fights and is hard to coach. He's still Raw. He's got talent and all the skills to be a stud just not the brains.
He jumped off the boat, sparked a team to the playoffs and it's been down hill since. His first year he was showing up late to meetings, arrested in Florida for doing 110MPH. It seems he's been better off the field but is still a problem in the dugout and not popular with his teammates.
Over the weekend I watched him throw out a runner trying to turn a double off the fence, it was beautiful play, a dead on laser throw. Still fun to watch.
Anyway, he comes from a different culture and hopes are he'll grow up, I'm hoping this bad year and trade rumors humble him. If he gets his head on straight, adapts and starts acting like a professional I think he'll be a star. I bet in 5 years and two teams later he becomes one.

The Dodgers trade rumor. Doubtful Puig goes anywhere because he's locked for several years, comes cheap and is well productive for the price. I don't think another team would be willing to give up what LAD wants for him. Unless Puig is part of a Cole Hamels trade I think he stays.

Dodgers round up.....
Joc Peterson is in a major rookie slump swinging at everything, went from BB's to SO's.
Between Joc and Puig slumping along with Jimmy Rollins hitting .210 and only having 2 pitchers puts the Dodgers in trouble.
It's bad enough I can see the Dodgers doing little by the trade deadline.
I can't see LAD renting a free agent to shoot for the playoffs with the problems they have and the contracts they have coming up.
One thing holding it together is Rollins has been hitting over the last few weeks other wise their top prospect Corey Seager would be possibly be called up, Rollins traded or released and LAD would sit back and roll the rest of the season.


All that means The Giants take the Division and one less team for the Cub's to battle for the WC.

I'm not as "sky is falling" for LA as you are. I seriously believe they'll land Hammels. SF just ended a pretty good run against sub to .500 teams. Their August schedule is gonna be a bitch. Plus I think they really lack pitching depth and it's going to hurt them unless Cain gets it all together ( he's successful against ATL, his next start ).

Lincecum ( if he returns will probably be in the bullpen ), Vogelsong, Hudson, and Peavy I wouldn't count on to go deep into games.

The Puig trade rumors I thought would eventually start swirling. Andrew Friedman is the GM and doesn't seem the type to tolerate cancerous primadonnas. If a deal can be made I'll bet he's gone.

Puig comes off to me as a heredity vs. environment example. Dude came from a 3rd world country and was handed money and fame...in LA of all places. How would you expect him to act. What was he like 21? 22? It's kind of like the thugs in the NBA. You give a kid from the hood millions and are surprised he acts like a jackass or are soon broke if it doesn't pan out?

I think he's an ass but aside from gloating at his struggles this season, I'm empathetic to his situation.

******
Dodgers close to acquiring Mat Latos ( another clubhouse cancer ) and Micheal Morse from Miami.

Aside from his clubhouse rep and I don't know the details yet, but Latos is a great buy-low option IMO. That's whom teams should have been going after. Yeah, salivate over Hammels or Price, kick the tires on Latos. Seriously.




*edit....again

Well played Philadelphia.


The guy is an asshat.

[UtahRatt]

I'm not as "sky is falling" for LA as you are. I seriously believe they'll land Hammels. SF just ended a pretty good run against sub to .500 teams. Their August schedule is gonna be a bitch. Plus I think they really lack pitching depth and it's going to hurt them unless Cain gets it all together ( he's successful against ATL, his next start ).

My only positive thinking is the Giants have problems of their own.

My Dodgers falling off the map has come from watching their games and stats drop over the last month. They was near the top in AVG, RBI's and HR now it's just HR's.
Having two Rookies make their first MLB starts back to back last week along with the other injuries and slumps doesn't give one hope at this point of the season. They're riding on fumes. How they've kept the bull pen together, when one comes back another goes on the DL has been amazing, Pedro Baez a 3rd baseman turned pitcher has helped when he's not on the DL. They don't have any speed, last in SB, no one to fit in the first two line up spots and apart from no starters we've used more farm this year then I can ever remember. They've done great keeping a plagued pitching staff together but it's finally caught up with them, they can't plug any more holes without trades.

We'll see but with no one hitting and 2 starting pitchers to count on it's going to be a long finish line.


I haven't looked at their D but it doesn't seem as solid as it was the first half, not sure where they sit now.

There's a lot of games left, LAD is in the running but I see a stumble ahead. Still say they'll be out of first with in the week.

[killeverything]

Mets acquire Carlos Gomez from Milwaukie for RHP Zach Wheeler and INF Wilmer Flores.

Detroit is supposedly pretty hard up for SF's pitching prospects. They have some lower-A guys that MIGHT be pretty good someday. Hypothetically speaking giving them up for a Price rental is absurd IMO, even if they repeat ( that dude is a FA. Boston, NYY, LAD...do you really want to go into a bidding war with those cats? ). I hope they learned their lesson post-2010 on that one.

Utah, I'm still not as convinced about LAD as you are. They've dealt with injuries, a dysfunctional clubhouse, and an incompetent manager, but they have way too much talent for me to count them out.

*ETA
Here's Wilmer Flores crying when learning he'd been traded.
Damn, I always wondered if that happened in the locker room.



**ETA again
Mets GM Anderson said no trade of Gomez has or will happen. After making that kid cry on tv. The Mets are some cold mofos.

[killeverything]

Rangers nearing a deal for Hammels.

Tulowitzki goes 3-5 in debut including a HR. Toronto has a veritable Murder's Row at the plate ( Tulo, Bautista, Donaldson, Encarcion ). This trade did nothing but change their run differential and does nothing to get them any closer to the playoffs. Pitching, pitching, pitching......

[UtahRatt]

Dodgers close to acquiring Mat Latos ( another clubhouse cancer ) and Micheal Morse from Miami.

Aside from his clubhouse rep and I don't know the details yet, but Latos is a great buy-low option IMO. That's whom teams should have been going after. Yeah, salivate over Hammels or Price, kick the tires on Latos. Seriously.

Looks like the Latos deal got a little bigger. But you're exactly right, I didn't want to see LAD in a bid war for a rental like Price and I wasn't big on Hammels. A good addition but at the price and LAD needed more then just Hammels.

This trade doesn't make LAD scary but it helps them pull out of the team out of the Hospital.

----------------------

LA set to deal for Braves' Wood, Marlins' Latos
Dodgers poised to get 6 players in return for Cuban star Olivera, Rodriguez and 3 Minor League pitchers.

The Dodgers' pending acquisition of starting pitcher Mat Latos and outfielder Michael Morse from the Marlins has expanded into multiple trades involving three teams, 12 players and a Draft pick.

The Dodgers - would receive Latos and Morse from the Marlins and starting pitcher Alex Wood, closer Jim Johnson, reliever Luis Avilan and infielder Jose Peraza from the Braves. Peraza is Atlanta's top prospect, according to MLB Pipeline.

Miami - would get Minor League pitchers Jeff Brigham, Victor Araujo and Kevin Guzman from Los Angeles

Atlanta - would get a competitive-balance Draft pick from the Marlins, from the Dodgers, the Braves would get recent Cuban signee Hector Olivera and injured reliever Paco Rodriguez.

--------------------

So the Dodgers outbid all of baseball to sign Hector Olivera for $62.5 million in March to end up trading him for these 6 guys, not that LAD planed it this way or had many choices. Latos is a rental free agent at the end of the season so if he's a clubhouse cancer I guess it works out if goes bye bye and Ryu or Brandon McCarthy make come backs.

Maybe this new LAD brass do have a plan, when LAD jumped on the Spendbrenner/Bostonspend wagon a few years ago it was a big difference, like tossing money into the wind and giving up farm for anyone. At least now they seem to be playing chess and making more thought out trades. They mentioned their top farm players are out of the question going into this deadline.
Last year they would have gave up top prospects and out bid for someone like Price or Ham's.

Still not convinced about doing damage this season but I think in a couple years they might actually have a good system in place.

[UtahRatt]

Mets acquire Uribe and Johnson from Braves for pitching prospects Jon Gant and Rob Whalen.

The top selling jerseys in the first half of the year are:

1. Bumgarner Giants
2. Bryant Cubs ( #2 jersey, 3 months as a big leaguer )
3. Posey Giants
4. Kershaw Dodgers
5. Harper Nationals
6. Pence Giants
7. Trout Angels
8. Harvet Mets
9. Ortiz Red Sox
10. Rizzo Cubs

I'm expecting Greinke to shoot up into the top 10 considering the season he's having.

Scott Kazmir 3H 3K 0BB 7IP in his debut for the Astros.

We was talking about Puig and sales and from last year, I picture Jeter's Grateful Dead tour was a success. I wonder if he sold as many shirts and people he gave herpes too.

MLB (2014)

1. Derek Jeter New York Yankees
2. Clayton Kershaw Los Angeles Dodgers
3. Mike Trout Los Angeles Angels
4. Buster Posey San Francisco Giants
5. Yasiel Puig Los Angeles Dodgers
6. David Ortiz Boston Red Sox
7. Andrew McCutchen Pittsburgh Pirates
8. Miguel Cabrera Detroit Tigers
9. Yoenis Cespedes Oakland A’s / Boston Red Sox
10. Dustin Pedroia Boston Red Sox

[killeverything]

Indians trade Brandon Moss to Cardinals for LHP Rob Kaminsky. It's reported Cleveland was reluctant to give up Moss' offense but couldn't pass on Kaminsky.

[Machado]

D. Price going to Blue Jays in exchange for
Daniel Norris


Very happy the Yankees did not give up any of their top prospects for Price.
Sometimes the best trade is the one you do not make.

[killeverything]

D. Price going to Blue Jays in exchange for
Daniel Norris


Very happy the Yankees did not give up any of their top prospects for Price.
Sometimes the best trade is the one you do not make.

Looks like the Tulo trade wasn't that stupid. Now they have pitching.

Matt Holiday to DL with quad strain.

Micheal Pineda to DL for forearm tightness.

Boston admits Sandoval's weight "an issue." 4 more years.
And you thought the Crawford signing was stupid.

Yankees acquire Dustin Ackley ( #2 in the 2009 draft ). The MFY think a change of scenery will do Ackley good. That dude was one of, if not THE guy to draft. He was drafted in front of this CF named Mike Trout No one ( except LAAAAA ) saw that one coming. I remember thinking ( this was when everyone bought that Jack Zduriencik was a sabermetrice genius ) "holy shit they got Ackley!" What a disappointment.

[Facedown]

Red Sox DFA Daniel Nava

[killeverything]

Detroit trades Jakim Soria to Pirates.

[wickedsensation]

The Cubs have about 21 hours left to find a sucker willing to take Starlin Castro (which I hope happens!). Maybe they can persuade San Diego to take him if they're willing to help SD on the salary relief part (either by sending cash in the deal, or taking on a large contract)?

I've heard rumors that they'd offer Castro, McKinney, Almora, and Edwards in return for Ross and Kimbrel. Don't know how valid that is, but I would do that one in a heartbeat if I were the Cubs...