Killeverything's (New)NeverEndingBaseballThread

[UtahRatt]

Next to Vladimir Guerrero and Gary Sheffield.

[Machado]

HOF is announced tomorrow. Of course Griffey Jr. is going in.
I really have changed my mind about Raines. He deserves to be enshrined.
Being the 2nd best lead off hitter, behind Rickey Henderson, well that is not a bad accomplishment. It did not help that his best years were in Montreal but that should not take away from everything he did on the field.
I really hope the old farts that vote for the HOF do not punish him for being from the same era as Rickey Henderson

[killeverything]

Next to Vladimir Guerrero and Gary Sheffield.

You mean you think Vlad and Sheff had better swings? It's all a matter of opinion really. Vlad, I don't recall being marveled by his swing, although it was astonishing how if you threw the ball anywhere he could reach it he could hit out. Williams used to talk about never doing that because it creates bad habits as a hitter, but that's a discussion for another time. Sheff, I don't recall ever being amazed by.

I wish there was better footage of the old school guys. Williams, Mays, Shoeless, Clemente, because those are the swings talked about through history. Jr. has the most popular though. I've yet to meet anyone that doesn't agree. You son of a bitch.

Alex Anthopolous hired for LAD FO.

LAD deal with Maeda on hold due to elbow concerns.

[UtahRatt]

Joke......Vlad and Sheff's mechanics are how do you say, don't teach this to your kids kind of swings. I loved watching Vladimir swing, one of my favorites watching his swing in all directions. I was more amazed by Sheffield timing with all his bat movement......But ya, I wouldn't use either of their swings as instructional videos.




The Cleveland Browns hire 'Moneyball' executive Paul DePodesta to run their football team.
You've got to be desperate. I have a hard time seeing it transition or what help this will be. Stats can be so misleading in Football plus he has no scouting experience. Football is a different Monster. They don't have a minor league to fairly judge stats vs like ability players. College isn't much of an indicator. Not sure how this is going to work unless they're dealing just with Free Agents or he somehow learned the ins and outs of an impossible salary cap.

[killeverything]

The Cleveland Browns hire 'Moneyball' executive Paul DePodesta to run their football team.
You've got to be desperate. I have a hard time seeing it transition or what help this will be. Stats can be so misleading in Football plus he has no scouting experience. Football is a different Monster. They don't have a minor league to fairly judge stats vs like ability players. College isn't much of an indicator. Not sure how this is going to work unless they're dealing just with Free Agents or he somehow learned the ins and outs of an impossible salary cap.

They know that was just a movie right? DePodesta hasn't fared to well outside of the movie ( McCourt fired him ).

Hmmmm. If this is gonna work.



Then this should too...for the Indians after missing out on David Price.



Cleveland mojo and all. Fucking idiots.

*ETA

Royals and Alex Gordon agree to multi year deal.

[Machado]

Jayson Stark wrote a very long but very well written article about who he voted for and why for the BBHOF.

His last 2 paragraphs pretty much sum of how I feel about the HOF, the process, voting for the PED users, etc..

If you're one of those people who wants this to be a Hall of Purity, I respect why you think that. Just recognize that means it's time to start pulling plaques off the wall and throwing people out. Immediately. The ball scuffers. The bat corkers. The racists. The amphetamine poppers. The guys we've undoubtedly already elected who used some sort of PED.

You think it would be awkward to attend Bonds' and Clemens' induction day? It wouldn't be anywhere near as awkward as the day we started ripping plaques out of the gallery. I know what Hall of Fame I'd like to see. I know what kind of Hall of Fame voter I'd like to be. I just hope I live to see the day when one of those visions actually turns real.

[WOLF]

Tim Raines jumped from 55% to 69% of the HOF vote, but did not make it. Next year will be his final year of eligibility.

What the hell do voters not see?!

- He got on base more times than Tony Gwynn, Roberto Clemente, and Honus Wagner
- He's one of only five players to steal 800+ bases; the other 4 are in the HOF
- He has the highest base stealing safe % in history

Tony Gwynn got in easily, while Raines has almost an identical on base percentage, more homers and more steals. I.E. - Raines was a better all around player.

Don't even get me started on the 3 idiots not voting for Griffey Jr. due to their own "code".

Man, is the process broken!

[Cooperkill]

One of these guys is going to the Hall of Fame. The other is Roger Clemens.

[UtahRatt]

Might as well put Rafael Palmeiro in.

[Cooperkill]

Might as well put Rafael Palmeiro in.

Well, it's tricky, but Piazza admitted taking PEDs that were legal/not tested at the time. Palmerio pointed in the face of congress saying he never used steroids and later tested positive for steroids.

[Machado]

Might as well put Rafael Palmeiro in.

Well, it's tricky, but Piazza admitted taking PEDs that were legal/not tested at the time. Palmerio pointed in the face of congress saying he never used steroids and later tested positive for steroids.

The entire situation is very, very tricky. Piazza getting voted in might just be the beginning of more "steroid" era users also getting in. Interesting that Bonds received more votes this year. Same goes for Clemens.
The HOF is stuck in the 60's. They have current members who cheated while they played to get ahead, but suddenly cheating is frowned upon. Who said, "if you are not cheating, you ain't trying"?
Bud Selig and the owners encouraged their players to take PED's. So if it was good enough for the owners, it should be good enough for the writers.

[killeverything]

Might as well put Rafael Palmeiro in.

Well, it's tricky, but Piazza admitted taking PEDs that were legal/not tested at the time. Palmerio pointed in the face of congress saying he never used steroids and later tested positive for steroids.

The entire situation is very, very tricky. Piazza getting voted in might just be the beginning of more "steroid" era users also getting in. Interesting that Bonds received more votes this year. Same goes for Clemens.
The HOF is stuck in the 60's. They have current members who cheated while they played to get ahead, but suddenly cheating is frowned upon. Who said, "if you are not cheating, you ain't trying"?
Bud Selig and the owners encouraged their players to take PED's. So if it was good enough for the owners, it should be good enough for the writers.

I still feel like the players that intentionally cheated, but clearly didn't need it ( Bonds, Clemens ) should be allowed induction if they admit it. The reason a lot players from the 40s - 70s eras are forgiven for greenies is that it wasn't A. tested for and B. until the ( late ) 70s even illegal.

The PED ( or Selig-era ) OTOH was intentionally using a banned by mlb and illegal substance to get a head of the competition, or overcome jealousy, etc. I think that these players took the cheating/competitive advantage, etc. to an entirely new level. Aside from breaking hallowed records it just took the game to another level. Bonds may be the biggest asshole on the planet, but even without PEDs he was truly Willie Mays godson. The guy would be the greatest player of all time.

*edit

As for guys like Palmeiro, Mcguire, and Sosa. No induction. All they did was juice their entire career and all they did was hit HRs. They were glorified DHs.

[Machado]

The entire situation is very, very tricky. Piazza getting voted in might just be the beginning of more "steroid" era users also getting in. Interesting that Bonds received more votes this year. Same goes for Clemens.
The HOF is stuck in the 60's. They have current members who cheated while they played to get ahead, but suddenly cheating is frowned upon. Who said, "if you are not cheating, you ain't trying"?
Bud Selig and the owners encouraged their players to take PED's. So if it was good enough for the owners, it should be good enough for the writers.

I still feel like the players that intentionally cheated, but clearly didn't need it ( Bonds, Clemens ) should be allowed induction if they admit it. The reason a lot players from the 40s - 70s eras are forgiven for greenies is that it wasn't A. tested for and B. until the ( late ) 70s even illegal.

The PED ( or Selig-era ) OTOH was intentionally using a banned by mlb and illegal substance to get a head of the competition, or overcome jealousy, etc. I think that these players took the cheating/competitive advantage, etc. to an entirely new level. Aside from breaking hallowed records it just took the game to another level. Bonds may be the biggest asshole on the planet, but even without PEDs he was truly Willie Mays godson. The guy would be the greatest player of all time.

*edit

As for guys like Palmeiro, Mcguire, and Sosa. No induction. All they did was juice their entire career and all they did was hit HRs. They were glorified DHs.

For the most part I agree with what you are saying. Maybe the voters are headed towards a new attitude towards the Bud Selig era and blatant PED use.
I agree that the most untouchable records were broken during that era and the game went to another level, but I firmly believe that the Owners encouraged this and they got exactly what they wanted. In fairness to the players, they were mostly doing what they were told to do and encouraged to do. The game received a tremendous spike in popularity. The gate receipts were on another level. TV ratings skyrocketed. Most fans were watching the McGwire/Sosa home run chase day after day after day.
I wish very player pull a Giambi and admit they did use, admit they did cheat but also the Owners and Bud should admit they turned a blind eye to the events happening on the field.

Next year the 1st time players eligible are
Pudge-was mentioned on Canseco's book as a PED user
Vlady-i don't know if he was linked or not
Manny Ramirez-suspended twice for using

[killeverything]

Everything and I mean everything Cansenco said in his book turned out to be true. Who woulda thought?

KC inks Alex Gordon to 4/72m deal with option for 2020. Biggest in club history. I'm old school, I like when a player stays with the same team.

LAD makes Kenta Meada 8 year ( heavy incentive deal ) official.

SF signs Denard Span to a 4/36m incentive laden deal pending a physical. More of the same. If SF's OF can remain healthy they are one of the best in mlb. IF.

Griffey Jr. to go in HOF as a Mariner and Piazza a Met. No one thinks of Jr. with Cincy. Some Dodger fans are pissed about Piazza though. Which is surprising, I know he came up there but he became a superstar with NY.

IF. Schilling gets the HOF nod I think he'll go in a BoSox ( like RJ did AZ, even though Seattle was his bulk ). It's the player's accomplishments. Clemens ( they made up recently too ) will go in a BoSox, etc.

[Machado]

Everything and I mean everything Cansenco said in his book turned out to be true. Who woulda thought?

What surprises me to this day is how MLB turned their back on him, despite Jose being the most honest person of the bunch.
He told the truth. Matter of fact, he told everybody he would tell the truth, was laughed at and still delivered as promised.
MLB should hire Jose as a spokesman for the MLB/PED era and send him to speak with young kids about the pitfalls of PED use.

[killeverything]

Everything and I mean everything Cansenco said in his book turned out to be true. Who woulda thought?

What surprises me to this day is how MLB turned their back on him, despite Jose being the most honest person of the bunch.
He told the truth. Matter of fact, he told everybody he would tell the truth, was laughed at and still delivered as promised.
MLB should hire Jose as a spokesman for the MLB/PED era and send him to speak with young kids about the pitfalls of PED use.

Not that I support Selig in any way. Canseco's big whistle blowing was because he was pissed no team wanted to sign him to limp to 400HRs and a probable HOF induction. It was no "Guise, steroids are bad! What we did was wrong, let's make it right." It was "Fuck you Major League Baseball, messin' with me, mang. I'm taking all you down, esse.' " Realize his motives.

Seattle signs Ryan Cook to one year deal.

[UtahRatt]

That's just fucking it. There's cheating and there's PED's...........Two different animals that people like Machado don't want to accept because his hero is the face of Steroids.
If it's all the same how come the punishment is different? PED's is a Class A felony compared to a parking ticket like greenies.

We all know this......
PED's changed the face of the game more then Aluminum Bat's would. It blew records out of the water, destroyed families and players including being connected to abuse, deaths and suicide. Yet people just want to forgive and forget? Fuck that.

Might as well forgive the Black Sox and Pete Rose long before PED users.

Fact is it's not even on the same planet as taking greenies or Ky jelly. It's not just "Cheating" when it changed the face of the game for everyone. There's no down playing it, it should be a lifetime ban. It's just as bad and throwing a game because the advantage is off the charts.

Players weren't forced, at most they were encouraged by friends and teammates while the league and owners turned their back and allowed it to happen including making it available but they still wasn't forced. They cheated on the highest level and should accept the responsibility.


Bonds WAS taking roids in the minors, he was using at ASU maybe not on continuous intervals but he still was.

[Machado]

That's just fucking it. There's cheating and there's PED's...........Two different animals that people like Machado don't want to accept because his hero is the face of Steroids.
If it's all the same how come the punishment is different? PED's is a Class A felony compared to a parking ticket like greenies.

We all know this......
PED's changed the face of the game more then Aluminum Bat's would. It blew records out of the water, destroyed families and players including being connected to abuse, deaths and suicide. Yet people just want to forgive and forget? Fuck that.

Might as well forgive the Black Sox and Pete Rose long before PED users.

Fact is it's not even on the same planet as taking greenies or Ky jelly. It's not just "Cheating" when it changed the face of the game for everyone. There's no down playing it, it should be a lifetime ban. It's just as bad and throwing a game because the advantage is off the charts.

Players weren't forced, at most they were encouraged by friends and teammates while the league and owners turned their back and allowed it to happen including making it available but they still wasn't forced. They cheated on the highest level and should accept the responsibility.


Bonds WAS taking roids in the minors, he was using at ASU maybe not on continuous intervals but he still was.

Utah
You have to get it right. ARod is NOT my hero. Favorite all time player is Jeter. Followed probably by Pete Rose(for his hustle). ARod is someone I support because he plays for my team. Just like all those Giants fans supported Bonds and the Sux fans supported Manny.
This debate is a hot topic. No question about it. I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for the players who never took PED's. They played the game clean. Oh well. Others were not very clean.
Piazza has admitted to taking Andro, was it Andro, but that was when it was legal. Andro was eventually banned. Hell, McGwire used to have supplies of Andro in his locker. Out in the open and look where he went with the PED use? To another level and more.

[killeverything]

That's just fucking it. There's cheating and there's PED's...........Two different animals that people like Machado don't want to accept because his hero is the face of Steroids.
If it's all the same how come the punishment is different? PED's is a Class A felony compared to a parking ticket like greenies.

We all know this......
PED's changed the face of the game more then Aluminum Bat's would. It blew records out of the water, destroyed families and players including being connected to abuse, deaths and suicide. Yet people just want to forgive and forget? Fuck that.

Might as well forgive the Black Sox and Pete Rose long before PED users.

Fact is it's not even on the same planet as taking greenies or Ky jelly. It's not just "Cheating" when it changed the face of the game for everyone. There's no down playing it, it should be a lifetime ban. It's just as bad and throwing a game because the advantage is off the charts.

Players weren't forced, at most they were encouraged by friends and teammates while the league and owners turned their back and allowed it to happen including making it available but they still wasn't forced. They cheated on the highest level and should accept the responsibility.


Bonds WAS taking roids in the minors, he was using at ASU maybe not on continuous intervals but he still was.

Utah
You have to get it right. ARod is my hero. Favorite all time player is Jeter. Followed probably by Pete Rose(for his hustle). ARod is someone I support because he plays for my team. Just like all those Giants fans supported Bonds and the Sux fans supported Manny.
This debate is a hot topic. No question about it. I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for the players who never took PED's. They played the game clean. Oh well. Others were not very clean.
Piazza has admitted to taking Andro, was it Andro, but that was when it was legal. Andro was eventually banned. Hell, McGwire used to have supplies of Andro in his locker. Out in the open and look where he went with the PED use? To another level and more.

I didn't support SF with Barry, although before he entered the roid race I was ecstatic when they got him. I was pissed off about Clark being gone for a long while. I know more than a few Barry Balco haters. A lot ( me included ) came back when he left and the Sabean, Bochy, Posey, Lincecum makeover happened.

Manny got popped when he went to LAD and put up that inhuman .700+ OPS, so the Boston fans weren't behind him there. In fact most ( especially after he pushed the 70( ? ) year old travel agent for the team [ I don't know his title ] to the floor ) were tired of his antics and wanted him gone. As for Boston's fans that still support Ortiz after the Mitchell List, is that Ortiz was flagged because there were no traces of anything in his system. I guess they just didn't believe it.

Clemens fell from my #3 all time favorite player because of that shit. Even former teammate Boggs don't think he belongs in the HOF.

I think it should require a lifetime ban. Period.

[Machado]

I didn't support SF with Barry, although before he entered the roid race I was ecstatic when they got him. I was pissed off about Clark being gone for a long while. I know more than a few Barry Balco haters. A lot ( me included ) came back when he left and the Sabean, Bochy, Posey, Lincecum makeover happened.

Manny got popped when he went to LAD and put up that inhuman .700+ OPS, so the Boston fans weren't behind him there. In fact most ( especially after he pushed the 70( ? ) year old travel agent for the team [ I don't know his title ] to the floor ) were tired of his antics and wanted him gone. As for Boston's fans that still support Ortiz after the Mitchell List, is that Ortiz was flagged because there were no traces of anything in his system. I guess they just didn't believe it.

Clemens fell from my #3 all time favorite player because of that shit. Even former teammate Boggs don't think he belongs in the HOF.

I think it should require a lifetime ban. Period.

You are probably in the minority about Bonds. Here in SF you still hear SF Giants fans praising Bonds and talking about how many great nights he provided for Giants fans during that era.
I had many, many friends who were diehard Giants fans they supported Bonds to no end. Now if there was a discussion about any other PED user that was currently playing the game, well of course these same people would criticize said player to no end.
This entire debate is about perception and what a person wants to believe.
I believe Bonds took steroids. I also believe Nolan Ryan did when he played. But Ryan will never admit it and he never failed a test.
I also believe that many of Bonds' peers took PED's but they were lucky and never failed a test. Therefore those players might walk into the HOF with a wider smile than most because they got away with being a user.

[killeverything]

I didn't support SF with Barry, although before he entered the roid race I was ecstatic when they got him. I was pissed off about Clark being gone for a long while. I know more than a few Barry Balco haters. A lot ( me included ) came back when he left and the Sabean, Bochy, Posey, Lincecum makeover happened.

Manny got popped when he went to LAD and put up that inhuman .700+ OPS, so the Boston fans weren't behind him there. In fact most ( especially after he pushed the 70( ? ) year old travel agent for the team [ I don't know his title ] to the floor ) were tired of his antics and wanted him gone. As for Boston's fans that still support Ortiz after the Mitchell List, is that Ortiz was flagged because there were no traces of anything in his system. I guess they just didn't believe it.

Clemens fell from my #3 all time favorite player because of that shit. Even former teammate Boggs don't think he belongs in the HOF.

I think it should require a lifetime ban. Period.

You are probably in the minority about Bonds. Here in SF you still hear SF Giants fans praising Bonds and talking about how many great nights he provided for Giants fans during that era.
I had many, many friends who were diehard Giants fans they supported Bonds to no end. Now if there was a discussion about any other PED user that was currently playing the game, well of course these same people would criticize said player to no end.
This entire debate is about perception and what a person wants to believe.
I believe Bonds took steroids. I also believe Nolan Ryan did when he played. But Ryan will never admit it and he never failed a test.
I also believe that many of Bonds' peers took PED's but they were lucky and never failed a test. Therefore those players might walk into the HOF with a wider smile than most because they got away with being a user.

Oh, I know I'm in the minority. The implication "more than a few" could mean 4. I got into it with a guy in Berkeley in 2014 that was talking about "the homerun king is at AT&T Park tonight." I responded with "Hank Aaron is at AT&T? Cool." So I know.

It ahould require a lifetime ban. Period.

[killeverything]

Apparently the Marlins are going to go after Yasiel Sierra. Could you imagine? You defect to the USA, get to realize your dreams of playing in mlb and your picked up by....the Marlins.

Former Cardinals Scouting director ( ? ) Chris Correa pleads guilty to hacking into Houston Astros database. He apparently did it because he thought Houston had info on St. Louis' scouting....so he was checking that out. Apparently it was ( believed ) to be an act of vengeance on Luhnow for leaving St.L for Houston. As quoted:

"There are people with the Cardinals who think Luhnow took credit for lot the things St' Louis has been doing for years. It wouldn't be surprising that any chance they would take to embarrass him, they would take it."

Luhnow has turned the Astros into a force. Like Epstein did with the Cubs or Zdurincik's retarded ass was supposed to do with Seattle. Kind of a Brad Pitt-less Billy Beane. The Cards are always good. Always. I wonder though if that was Luhnow now. I wonder if there will be a changing of the guard so to speak.

Fuck Selig for bringing Houston into the AL. The Astros/Cards rivalry was awesome in the early 2000s. I still think the Cardinals fans giving Houston a standing ovation after they knocked them out of the NLCS in 2005 was epic.

*ETA

It still blows my mind three people didn't vote for Griffey Jr. What. The. Fuck?

[killeverything]

Cardinals sign South Korean pitcher Seung-Hwan Oh. He was called by Jeff Passan "Mariano Rivera of Japan" when he played there. His nickname is "The Final Boss."

Adrian Beltre and Rangers working on an extension.

[killeverything]

Marlins sign Wei-Yen Chen 5/80m. Opt-out after 2 years.

Cuban pitcher Yasiel Sierra signs 6 year deal with LAD.

Gerardo Parra signs 3/27.5m deal with Rockies.

Marlins offer Dee Gordon 5 year deal.

Reds and Cuban SS Alfredo Rodriguez have a 6 year deal.

[Machado]

Girardi confirmed Chapman is the closer. Betances and Miller will fall into the set up role.
Castro named the back up 3rd baseman.

[killeverything]

HOF OF and civil rights activist Monte Irving passes away at 94.

*ETA

Mariners acquire RHP Joe Weiland from LAD for INF Erick Meija, DFA RHP A.J Schugel.

[killeverything]

SD signs SS Alexi Ramirez to 1 year contract.

*ETA

Miami inks Gordon to 5/50m deal.

Tampa Bay given permission to look for new stadium.

Baltimore makes offer to Cespedes. Still want to resign Davis but running out of patience.

Twins Miguel Sano switches agents to Rockafella Sports, yo.

[killeverything]

KC and Ian Kennedy agree to deal....the Royals WS win was sweet for the fly-over state, but didn't happen again in 2016.

Baltimore and Chris Davis agree to 7 year deal finally. Buck Showalter is still a douche.

[killeverything]

Detroit signs Upton to 6/132.75m deal.

[lemmysmole]

Apparently the Marlins are going to go after Yasiel Sierra. Could you imagine? You defect to the USA, get to realize your dreams of playing in mlb and your picked up by....the Marlins.

Former Cardinals Scouting director ( ? ) Chris Correa pleads guilty to hacking into Houston Astros database. He apparently did it because he thought Houston had info on St. Louis' scouting....so he was checking that out. Apparently it was ( believed ) to be an act of vengeance on Luhnow for leaving St.L for Houston. As quoted:

"There are people with the Cardinals who think Luhnow took credit for lot the things St' Louis has been doing for years. It wouldn't be surprising that any chance they would take to embarrass him, they would take it."

Luhnow has turned the Astros into a force. Like Epstein did with the Cubs or Zdurincik's retarded ass was supposed to do with Seattle. Kind of a Brad Pitt-less Billy Beane. The Cards are always good. Always. I wonder though if that was Luhnow now. I wonder if there will be a changing of the guard so to speak.

Fuck Selig for bringing Houston into the AL. The Astros/Cards rivalry was awesome in the early 2000s. I still think the Cardinals fans giving Houston a standing ovation after they knocked them out of the NLCS in 2005 was epic.

*ETA

It still blows my mind three people didn't vote for Griffey Jr. What. The. Fuck?

You mean those very same Marlins who've won 2 WS?