It looks like Toronto is close to signing Melky Cabrera to a 2 year deal. I think that guy is a bargain right now and a risk most GMs should be willing to take. When he was with the MFY he was a guy ( along with Cano ) that could breakout and be REALLY good. He didn't obviously.
Goes to KC and starts to become the guy scouts thought he would. Now was him being out of the NY pressure cooker what allowed him to develop? San Fran pick him up and he lights up NL West. Was it roids?
It's a chicken vs. egg rhetoric, but you could sign a blackeyed player to an incentive laden contract who could potentially be a superstar. He's cheap now so if he doesn't work out? Fuck it. Plus he's back in the AL East so was it roids or less pressure? We're are all about to find out.
It looks like Toronto is close to signing Melky Cabrera to a 2 year deal. I think that guy is a bargain right now and a risk most GMs should be willing to take. When he was with the MFY he was a guy ( along with Cano ) that could breakout and be REALLY good. He didn't obviously.
Goes to KC and starts to become the guy scouts thought he would. Now was him being out of the NY pressure cooker what allowed him to develop? San Fran pick him up and he lights up NL West. Was it roids?
It's a chicken vs. egg rhetoric, but you could sign a blackeyed player to an incentive laden contract who could potentially be a superstar. He's cheap now so if he doesn't work out? Fuck it. Plus he's back in the AL East so was it roids or less pressure? We're are all about to find out.
Not to mention, hitters often times go to Toronto and oddly seem to have career seasons. Best example....Jose Bautista of course. From nobody to all star. Encarnacion? Pretty great season last yr. And there are more but fuck it, they oddly never seem to do all that great as a team overall anyways.
But what is it w/going to Toronto and having career seasons @ the plate? Is it the guy out in center field stealing signs? Have they figured out how to flub the drug tests? I'm sure Melky will continue the tradition, whatever it may be.....
"They say every sin is deadly, but I believe they may be wrong
Cause I'm guilty of all seven & I don't feel too bad at all"
Flub the drug tests? Like when Clemens went there, met Mcnamee ( who juiced Pettite and Roger's wife, but not Roger ) won 2 Cys and demanded a trade to the MFY? No way!
Seriously though it's an interesting question, because there is ( small sample size not withstanding ) a pattern. Maybe because it's not hockey and Toronto hasn't reached the post season since '93, when they repeated as World Champs. So chicken vs. egg again, is it because there is less pressure to perform better?
johnk5150 wrote:Loria is evil. The only surprise in this is how quickly he fucked Marlins fans. He stole public money to build that eyesore and shed expenses as quickly as he could.
I have so much rage. I'd give anything to punch him in his fat smug mouth. I'm SO angry, hurt, confused, sad. This motherfucker gets away with it again and again. Totally heartbroken. And, oh, when Stanton goes, he won't end up in MFY pinstripes. I predict he'll head out west, he's a Cali boy. That will be a black day when that happens.
And the Ballpark is NOT an eyesore by any means! Well, except for The Thingy. Jeffrey Loria's Technicolor Nightmare.
A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triple crown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
SkyDog112046 wrote:A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triplcrown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
I'm unopposed to Miggy as the MVP, but I personally would've given it to Trout. 5 tool player, rookie and an incredible one at that.
SkyDog112046 wrote:A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triple crown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
How about if I cherry pick three other stats that Trout lead Cabrera in? And yes, fielding and baserunning make a big difference. Trout saves runs with his defense and adds runs on the bases- Cabrera played in 21 more games than Trout but Trout had 20 more runs. Trout scored almost a run a game. That's MVP shit right there. Also, look at how much Hunter benefited by batting behind Trout. That's due in large part to what Trout was doing on the basepaths, something Miggy doesn't bring to the table. No pitcher cares about Cabrera when he's on base. Every pitcher cares about Trout when he's on base. That's value.
SkyDog112046 wrote:A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triplcrown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
I'm unopposed to Miggy as the MVP, but I personally would've given it to Trout. 5 tool player, rookie and an incredible one at that.
Plus and here is the definitive proof:
Cabrera WAR: 6.9
Trout WAR: 10.7
What in the world is a WAR?
Cabrera did something that hadn't been done in 45 years or so. He's the MVP. Hands down. The object of the game is to get on base, score runs, drive in runs. Cabrera does that in spades. What is it the stat geeks aren't getting? Does the guy need to be Mark Belanger in the field to win MVP now? Or Lou Brock on the bases?
From Wiki:
Wins Above Replacement, commonly known as WAR, is a non-standardized sabermetric baseball statistic that is used to show how many more wins a player would give a team as opposed to a "replacement level", or minor league/bench player at that position. While WAR values are scaled equally for pitchers and hitters, the result is calculated differently for pitchers versus position players: position players are evaluated using statistics for fielding and hitting, while pitchers are evaluated using statistics related to the opposing batters' hits, walks and strikeouts in Fangraph's version and runs allowed per 9 innings with a team defense adjustment for Baseball Reference's version.
There is no clearly established formula for WAR. Sites that provide the statistic, such as Baseball Prospectus, Fangraphs, and Baseball Reference, all calculate it differently; however, all of these sites calculate the value of WAR using these principles, and each site publicly acknowledges their methods for calculating their individual WAR values.
bonedog wrote:I let Facedown get the better of me
bonedog wrote:My first kid will be born when I am 47.
As far as Cabrera vs. Trout, I tend to agree with the arguments the Cabrera supporters were throwing out there.
MVP is Most VALUABLE Player, not Most VERSATILE/TALENTED Player.
Angels missed the playoffs with Trout, they would have missed them without him.
Not going to look up all the stats but I remember someone saying that Cabrera hit 100 points higher (or something like that) than Trout down the stretch.
bonedog wrote:I let Facedown get the better of me
bonedog wrote:My first kid will be born when I am 47.
SkyDog112046 wrote:A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triple crown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
How about if I cherry pick three other stats that Trout lead Cabrera in? And yes, fielding and baserunning make a big difference. Trout saves runs with his defense and adds runs on the bases- Cabrera played in 21 more games than Trout but Trout had 20 more runs. Trout scored almost a run a game. That's MVP shit right there. Also, look at how much Hunter benefited by batting behind Trout. That's due in large part to what Trout was doing on the basepaths, something Miggy doesn't bring to the table. No pitcher cares about Cabrera when he's on base. Every pitcher cares about Trout when he's on base. That's value.
Batting average, runs batted in, home runs, and hits are not cherry-picked stats. Those are the main offensive categories, and the ones most likely to get players into the Hall of Fame - 3000 hits, 500 home runs, lifetime batting average over .300, etc... Players that drive in runs are more valuable than players that score runs because they are more rare. When a pitcher is facing a batter they aren't thinking "this guy is fast, I better not let him get on base", they are thinking "this guy can hit, and hit for power, so if I make a mistake he's going to put the ball in the bleachers. And the batters around him benefit by seeing better pitches.
A triple crown is a rare event as it's only happened 14 times in 112 years. Look at the names of the guys who have won it: Lajoie, Cobb, Hornsby, Foxx, Gehrig, Williams, Mantle, Robinson, and Yastremski. That's some pretty elite company. Those guys are among the creme-de-la-creme of the Hall of Fame. Cabrera just put up a season that rivals one of those guys best seasons, something that hasn't been done in 45 years. He deserved the MVP, same way a player that manages to bat .400+ with respectable stats in other categories or a pitcher that wins 30+ games would deserve it too.
SkyDog112046 wrote:A triple crown winner should get the MVP. Most HR's, most RBI's, and highest BA. Fielding and base running shouldn't be a difference maker against a triple crown winner unless the other guy is right behind him in all those categories. Shouldn't even matter if the triple crown guy is a DH.
Cabrera vs Trout
BA: 330 vs 326
HR: 44 vs 30
RBI: 139 vs 83
Hits: 205 vs 182
BA is close, but the other categories aren't. The Baseball Writers got this one right. It should be a non-issue,
How about if I cherry pick three other stats that Trout lead Cabrera in? And yes, fielding and baserunning make a big difference. Trout saves runs with his defense and adds runs on the bases- Cabrera played in 21 more games than Trout but Trout had 20 more runs. Trout scored almost a run a game. That's MVP shit right there. Also, look at how much Hunter benefited by batting behind Trout. That's due in large part to what Trout was doing on the basepaths, something Miggy doesn't bring to the table. No pitcher cares about Cabrera when he's on base. Every pitcher cares about Trout when he's on base. That's value.
Batting average, runs batted in, home runs, and hits are not cherry-picked stats. Those are the main offensive categories, and the ones most likely to get players into the Hall of Fame - 3000 hits, 500 home runs, lifetime batting average over .300, etc... Players that drive in runs are more valuable than players that score runs because they are more rare. When a pitcher is facing a batter they aren't thinking "this guy is fast, I better not let him get on base", they are thinking "this guy can hit, and hit for power, so if I make a mistake he's going to put the ball in the bleachers. And the batters around him benefit by seeing better pitches.
A triple crown is a rare event as it's only happened 14 times in 112 years. Look at the names of the guys who have won it: Lajoie, Cobb, Hornsby, Foxx, Gehrig, Williams, Mantle, Robinson, and Yastremski. That's some pretty elite company. Those guys are among the creme-de-la-creme of the Hall of Fame. Cabrera just put up a season that rivals one of those guys best seasons, something that hasn't been done in 45 years. He deserved the MVP, same way a player that manages to bat .400+ with respectable stats in other categories or a pitcher that wins 30+ games would deserve it too.
Those stats are historical because for many decades they were the only stats that most people looked at. There's nothing wrong with taking other things into consideration.
Once again, the argument that Cabrera carried his team into the playoffs doesn't hold water in comparison. First, the Angels had a better record and played in a tougher division. If the Tigers had been in the AL West they wouldn't have made the playoffs. Second, Trout carried the Angels from the moment he was called up. They were horrible in April and once Trout was on the team, they turned around. He carried the team for months. Same as Cabrera, except in a tougher division (which is why the Angels didn't make the playoffs). If you're making an argument about carrying a team, Trout did just as much carrying as Cabrera did.
Finally...Trout had a historical season too. First player in MLB history to hit 30 HR, steal 45 bases, and score 125+ runs in one season. Again...first player ever to do that. If that isn't value, I don't know what is.
tin00can wrote:Those stats are historical because for many decades they were the only stats that most people looked at. There's nothing wrong with taking other things into consideration.
Once again, the argument that Cabrera carried his team into the playoffs doesn't hold water in comparison. First, the Angels had a better record and played in a tougher division. If the Tigers had been in the AL West they wouldn't have made the playoffs. Second, Trout carried the Angels from the moment he was called up. They were horrible in April and once Trout was on the team, they turned around. He carried the team for months. Same as Cabrera, except in a tougher division (which is why the Angels didn't make the playoffs). If you're making an argument about carrying a team, Trout did just as much carrying as Cabrera did.
Finally...Trout had a historical season too. First player in MLB history to hit 30 HR, steal 45 bases, and score 125+ runs in one season. Again...first player ever to do that. If that
isn't value, I don't know what is.
Pretty much, but to say "Cabrera pulled off an amazing offensive feat, therefore he deserves the MVP" is absurd. Trout provided more value, therefore ( and I believe he was discriminated against for being a rookie ) he should've been the MVP.
If offensive accomplishments are the standard Ted lost to Dimaggio in '41 when he hit .406. Getting on base 4 out of 10 times over a 162 game season, I think would be more benefitial than getting on base 56 times in a row.
tin00can wrote:Those stats are historical because for many decades they were the only stats that most people looked at. There's nothing wrong with taking other things into consideration.
Once again, the argument that Cabrera carried his team into the playoffs doesn't hold water in comparison. First, the Angels had a better record and played in a tougher division. If the Tigers had been in the AL West they wouldn't have made the playoffs. Second, Trout carried the Angels from the moment he was called up. They were horrible in April and once Trout was on the team, they turned around. He carried the team for months. Same as Cabrera, except in a tougher division (which is why the Angels didn't make the playoffs). If you're making an argument about carrying a team, Trout did just as much carrying as Cabrera did.
Finally...Trout had a historical season too. First player in MLB history to hit 30 HR, steal 45 bases, and score 125+ runs in one season. Again...first player ever to do that. If that isn't value, I don't know what is.
Yeah I remember seeing that scrolling at the bottom on ESPN towards the end of the year. That's fucking insane, I think that trumps something thats been done 14 times, not to mention everything else He did so much better than Cabrera which you pointed out perferctly in your other post. Trout was fucking robbed. MVP should go to the all around better player. out of curiousity has there ever been a triple crown winner that didn't win the MVP?
What Cabrera did was strap a team on his back and helped them win a division that no one wanted to step up and win. He was the MVP of hus team and the league.
johnk5150 wrote:What Cabrera did was strap a team on his back and helped them win a division that no one wanted to step up and win. He was the MVP of hus team and the league.
I agree. Despite the amazing numbers Trout put up in his rookie season, he did not do well enough to win the MVP Award
johnk5150 wrote:What Cabrera did was strap a team on his back and helped them win a division that no one wanted to step up and win. He was the MVP of hus team and the league.
Trout strapped a team on his back that didn't want to win without him, and did it in a tougher division than the Tigers play in. The only difference between him and Cabrera is that Cabrera plays in a weaker division, so his team made the playoffs. Trout carried the Angels to a better record, so if you making a comparison about carrying a team Trout wins that too.
johnk5150 wrote:What Cabrera did was strap a team on his back and helped them win a division that no one wanted to step up and win. He was the MVP of hus team and the league.
Trout strapped a team on his back that didn't want to win without him, and did it in a tougher division than the Tigers play in. The only difference between him and Cabrera is that Cabrera plays in a weaker division, so his team made the playoffs. Trout carried the Angels to a better record, so if you making a comparison about carrying a team Trout wins that too.
Don't forget Justin Verlander who was the MVP of the Tigers.
Machado wrote:I agree. Despite the amazing numbers Trout put up in his rookie season, he did not do well enough to win the MVP Award
That dosent even sound right, Trout did something that no one in baseball history has done, Cabrera didn't. How is puuting up those kind of numbers unseen before by anyone not doing well enough? Cabrera had a typical Cabrera season only minus a drunken fuck you tirade and a dinger more than Hamilton to get a triple crown, Sorry but Trout doing what He did as a rookie no less is far more impressive than what doughboy did.
I ain't gonna get into the "he deserved it more" debate, but I DO wish like hell that Trout would have gotten it over Cabrera, simply for the fact that I think Cabrera's a fucking douchebag.
I remember when the Tigers were playing the Reds this past season, the Reds Frazier was @ 3rd...now I don't remember the exact situation, but I remember that the 3rd base coach told Frazier to go home as he was unsure as to whether or not Cabrera had put his foot on the bag @ 3rd. Turned out, the umpire said that he had, but that drunk doughboy Cabrera started running off at the mouth at Frazier, who is one of the nicest guys in the game, always upbeat, positive attitude, etc. and there's that fat fuck yelling "f-this, f-you, f-that". You could read his lips for most of it & at one point you could see him saying something like "go on mother fucker, go home bitch" which was followed w/the "f-this/that/the other" tirade. That made me INSTANTLY hate that fucking prick. Shitty fucking attitude. Frazier just looked dumbfounded, kinda like "what in the holy HELL brought THAT on?" He didn't say anything back to Cabrera, I honestly think he was completely shocked that the idiot went on such a little bitch-fit over NOTHING.
I've heard of other incidents as well. Nothing I can specifically think of off the top of my head, I just know I have heard that the guy is a complete asshole.
So yeah, I TOTALLY wish that Trout had gotten the MVP.
And dtmfs brings up a good point in that Trout did something that had NEVER been done before whereas the triple crown HAS been won before. IMO, that's a pretty damn good argument in and of itself.
When the MVP winners were 1st announced, I pretty much felt like they had gotten it right (w/Posey, they absolutely did IMO). But the more arguments I have read in favor of Trout, the more I find myself being swayed to his side even BEYOND the fact that I think Cabrera is a d-bag.
"They say every sin is deadly, but I believe they may be wrong
Cause I'm guilty of all seven & I don't feel too bad at all"
John Gibbons was hired as manager of the Toronto Blue Jays for the second time Tuesday, returning to a team that just invigorated its roster after a blockbuster trade with the Miami Marlins.
Gibbons managed Toronto 2004-2008 and had a 305-305 record, making him the third winningest manager in franchise history.
The Royals have signed right-hander Jeremy Guthrie to a $25 million, three-year deal, adding another piece to what should be a retooled starting rotation next season.
Life is short and we should always be thankful for all that we have. Those of us who work on Stat of the Week are thankful for all of you, our loyal readers. Here are some numbers in the baseball world that we are also thankful for.
42,990 – That is the number of games played in Major League Baseball since the last labor dispute ended in 1995. MLB is enjoying its longest stretch without a work stoppage since the MLBPA formed in 1953.
6,200,000 – That is what perennial backup catcher David Ross will earn with his new two-year contract with the Boston Red Sox. In four seasons with Atlanta, Ross accumulated close to a full season of at-bats and produced well offensively. His .816 OPS is comparable to some of the better hitting catchers including Carlos Santana and Miguel Montero, albeit in a third of the plate appearances. However, it is defensively where Ross stands out. Ross has saved the Braves 11 runs with his defense, buoyed by throwing out 47 of 127 potential basestealers. His 37.0 caught stealing percentage barely trails five-time Fielding Bible Award winner Yadier Molina, who threw out 37.6 percent of runners over the same time period. Hopefully, his new contract is an indication of an increase in playing time. Ross definitely deserves it.
45 – That is the number of years it had been since a batter had won a Triple Crown before Miguel Cabrera managed the feat in 2012. From 1922 to 1967, also 45 years, there were 11 Triple Crown seasons turned in by nine different players: Rogers Hornsby (twice), Chuck Klein, Jimmy Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Joe Medwick, Ted Williams (twice), Mickey Mantle, Frank Robinson, and Carl Yastrzemski. Cabrera is between a couple of his Triple Crown predecessors, Mickey Mantle and Frank Robinson, with 3,177 total bases before age 30, which is eighth-best all-time. With continued health and production, Cabrera is on track to be one of the best hitters in baseball history.
1 – That is where I rank the team that helps bring you Stat of the Week. These articles may have my name on them, but they would not be possible without all of their hard work. Thank you Charles Fiore, Ben Jedlovec, Amanda Modelski and Scott Spratt. You guys are fantastic!
No way!
