Tom Brady : least valuable player?

[Monsters_of_Rock]

If you could have any one QB for the following situation, who would it be?

You are the coach, it's the Superbowl, you're down by 4 points, there is 1:30 left, you have 1 timeout, and the ball is on your own 20.










The correct answer is Joe Montana. John Elway and Tom Brady are acceptable answers as well.





The opposing coach is hoping you are sending old #4 in so that after the 2 completions and the inevitable INT he can have his QB take a knee and then go and collect his Lombardi Trophy.

That's pure bullshit. Down by 14 I could buy what you're selling, but not down by 4. Down by 4, Favre will lead your team to victory just as well as Elway and Montana would and much much better than that overrated and overhyped media darling Tom Brady.

Brady does not lead the Patriots, the Patriots lead Brady. Matt Cassel stepped in last year and gave them the same productivity that Brady has given them in all but one season. He was great in '07, but every other season of his career he's been merely good including this year.

Did you see the Vikings/49ers game earlier this season? If your silly little theory was correct Favre would have thrown an INT on that last drive and the 49ers would have won the game, but that's not what happened. Favre has actually had two 4th quarter comebacks already this season, and he's closing in on Elway's all-time record.

[MickeyG]

MOR, let it go, son.

You've been schooled on this thread by Juggs and Lickety about Quarterbacking, and here you still are flapping your gums about Farve.

[SkyDog112046]

That's pure bullshit. Down by 14 I could buy what you're selling, but not down by 4. Down by 4, Favre will lead your team to victory just as well as Elway and Montana would and much much better than that overrated and overhyped media darling Tom Brady.

Brady does not lead the Patriots, the Patriots lead Brady. Matt Cassel stepped in last year and gave them the same productivity that Brady has given them in all but one season. He was great in '07, but every other season of his career he's been merely good including this year.

Did you see the Vikings/49ers game earlier this season? If your silly little theory was correct Favre would have thrown an INT on that last drive and the 49ers would have won the game, but that's not what happened. Favre has actually had two 4th quarter comebacks already this season, and he's closing in on Elway's all-time record.

So much tard-dum in one post I almost don't know where to start....

You really just compared Favre to Montana? Really? And you are being serious? Normally after someone does that you hear a rimshot and everyone starts laughing. That alone should nullify anything you said afterward.

Brady doesn't lead the Patriots? So you mean those 3 Superbowls in which he led drives at the end to win them were what - a fiction of our imagination?

Cassel had a decent year last year, and it was fun to watch. It made for a great story, and I'm happy that he got a nice contract and a starting role in KC. But don't forget that he was taking over an offense that set a slew of records the previous season. It's not like he had to throw to David Patten and Reche Calldwell. In Moss, Welker & Faulk he had one of the best deep threats, one of the best slot receivers, and one of the best receiving RBs in the league to throw to. If we do a side by side comparison(through 6 games) of Cassel in '08 vs Brady in '09 we see
Cassel: 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 1,095 YDs, and a QB Rating of 91
Brady: 12 TDs, 2 INTs, 1,724 YDs, and a QB Rating of 99

Were you aware that Cassel was the most sacked QB in '08? It's not because his line sucked, it's because he had a tendency to hang on to the ball too long while going through his progressions. Seems the guy that was there before him excelled at getting the ball out quickly so he didn't get sacked so much. And that is part of the skill set we are trying to explain to you.

A good QB calms everyone in the huddle(see Montana's SB quip about who was in the audience during his famous SB winning drive vs Cincy), reads the defensive set and adjusts accordingly(Peyton Manning is the master of this), and then takes the ball, drops back and goes through his progressions as quickly as possible and makes the highest percentage throw possible to keep the chains moving(which is what Brady does best). If the TD is there they will certainly take it, but they know that you don't need a TD on every pass to win the game. Sometimes the best pass of the game was the 8 yard sideline pass on 3rd & 7, the one that kept the drive going just before the winning score.

Guys like Favre don't get that. They will win games by gunslinging, but they will also be the cause of many losses, particularly in big games. Yes Favre won a couple of games in the early part of the season. Gunslingers look great in week 2, 3, or 4. They just don't look so good come mid January. Did you see Delhomme's disaster last year? Matt Cassel picked that same defense apart 2 weeks earlier, so it wasn't like Delhomme was going up against the '85 Bears. He got rattled after he lost a fumble, started forcing throws even the the score was tied, and then started getting picked off left and right making things worse with each subsequent throw.

You may not have been watching that game because you were busy watching Favre's first round game with the Jets....opps, that's right - even though NY had a nice division lead after 11 games Favre returned to gunslinger form and cost his team the playoff spot.

But I'm sure you remember this sequence from the NFC Championship game the year before Let's pick it up in the 4th Qtr:
Green Bay - 6:49
1st-10, GB33 6:49 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, GB33 6:43 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
3rd-10, GB33 6:36 B. Favre passed to V. Morency down the middle for 7 yard gain
4th-3, GB40 5:53 J. Ryan punt. R. McQuarters returned punt for 6 yards
NY Giants - 5:53
1st-10, NYG37 5:53 B. Jacobs rushed to the right for 6 yard gain
2nd-4, NYG43 5:19 B. Jacobs rushed to the right for 3 yard gain
3rd-1, NYG46 4:58 E. Manning rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
1st-10, NYG48 4:16 E. Manning incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, NYG48 4:12 B. Jacobs rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
3rd-8, 50 3:30 E. Manning sacked by K. Gbaja-Biamila
4th-13, NYG45 2:48 J. Feagles punt. T. Williams returned punt for no gain
Green Bay - 2:48
1st-10, GB17 2:48 B. Favre incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, GB17 2:44 GB committed 5 yard penalty
2nd-15, GB12 2:44 B. Favre incomplete pass down the middle
3rd-15, GB12 2:39 B. Favre passed to D. Lee down the middle for 5 yard gain
4th-10, GB17 2:15 J. Ryan punt. R. McQuarters returned punt for 7 yards. R. McQuarters fumbled. D. Hixon recovered fumble
NY Giants - 2:15
1st-10, GB48 2:15 A. Bradshaw rushed to the left for 1 yard gain. NYG committed 10 yard penalty
1st-19, NYG43 2:05 E. Manning passed to D. Tyree to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-15, NYG47 1:59 E. Manning passed to S. Smith down the middle for 14 yard gain
3rd-1, GB39 1:17 A. Bradshaw rushed to the left for 8 yard gain
1st-10, GB31 0:53 E. Manning passed to S. Smith to the right for 11 yard gain
1st-10, GB20 0:30 A. Bradshaw rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, GB18 0:05 E. Manning incomplete pass down the middle
3rd-8, GB18 0:04 L. Tynes missed a 36-yard field goal
OT
NY Giants - 15:00
NYG kicked off, K. Robinson returned kickoff for 19 yards
Green Bay - 14:54
1st-10, GB26 14:54 R. Grant rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, GB28 14:04 C. Webster intercepted B. Favre for 9 yards
NY Giants - 14:04
1st-10, GB34 14:04 A. Bradshaw rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, GB30 13:21 A. Bradshaw rushed to the right for 1 yard gain
3rd-5, GB29 12:38 E. Manning incomplete pass to the left
4th-5, GB29 12:25 L. Tynes kicked a 47-yard field goal

[UtahRatt]

I can clearly see MOR's point, it's on top of his fucking head.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

[UtahRatt]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

Just admit that you don't get it and you want his balls on your face.

Anyone watch the Top 10 Clutch QB's on the NFL network?

The only time they mentioned Farve was saying part of being a clutch QB is by not making bad decisions during clutch moments!

10. Dan Marino
9. Steve Young
8. Bart Starr
7. Otto Graham
6. Ken Stabler
5. Johnny Unitas
4. Roger Staubach
3. TOM BRADY
2. John Elway
1. Joe Montana


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id= ... nfirm=true

[bane]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

[thejuggernaut]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

Plus everyone associated with the NFL (people who are FAR more knowledgeable than any of us).

Oh, but it has to be a conspiracy. Never mind that Favre is BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$ for the NFL - they are out to get him.

[Punk]

Brady does not lead the Patriots, the Patriots lead Brady. Matt Cassel stepped in last year and gave them the same productivity that Brady has given them in all but one season. He was great in '07, but every other season of his career he's been merely good including this year.

Your point is completely moot because Aaron Rodgers is doing the exact same thing in Green Bay now that Favre's gone.

Fact ~ Favre is a great QB, one of the top 10 ever based on longevity, durability, and several awesome years.

Fact ~ Favre throws a shit ton of interceptions, particularly in big games.

Fact ~ Ask any NFL expert and they'll all, to a man, say that rating the best QBs of all time means you take championships as your main factor, with stats second. This is why Joe Montana is considered one of the best, if not the best of all time.


No one in their right mind would take Favre over Brady or Montana in that 2 minute drill to win the Super Bowl.

[bane]

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

Plus everyone associated with the NFL (people who are FAR more knowledgeable than any of us).

Your point is well taken, but there are exceptions. I'm reasonably certain that Gruden wants to have Favre's babies. He'll have to fight off MOR for the honor though.

[thejuggernaut]

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

Plus everyone associated with the NFL (people who are FAR more knowledgeable than any of us).

Your point is well taken, but there are exceptions. I'm reasonably certain that Gruden wants to have Favre's babies. He'll have to fight off MOR for the honor though.

As an announcer looking for a gig, he fawns over him a lot.

Yet, when he had a chance to get him, he passed on it. And this is a man who collects Qbs and especially loves veterans.

He also benched Garcia when Garcia went off script.

His passing on Favre despite him meeting most of Gruden's criteria speaks volumes.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

He's a future 1st ballot HOFer. Based on the definition of what a 1st ballot HOFer is, yes he is among the greatest ever and certainly among the greatest of his own era. If he isn't, he won't go into the HOF on the 1st ballot. But he will go into the HOF on the 1st ballot, which proves me right.

Every single poster in this thread may disagree with me, but every single poster in this thread (including myself) has no real credibility on this subject. The people who do have credibility are the ones who will vote him into the HOF on the 1st ballot. People like John Madden and Jon Gruden have a helluva lot more credibility than random people posting on message boards who are sick and tired of hearing about him.

No, not everybody is going to agree that he's #1 on the list of greatest QBs ever to play the game... and that's fine. But anybody with any amount of objectivity would agree that he is somewhere on that list. To say he's "nowhere close" shows an obvious and irrational bias against him when his track record overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

As an announcer looking for a gig, he fawns over him a lot.

Yet, when he had a chance to get him, he passed on it. And this is a man who collects Qbs and especially loves veterans.

He also benched Garcia when Garcia went off script.

His passing on Favre despite him meeting most of Gruden's criteria speaks volumes.

Gruden never "passed" on Favre. He thought he had him, and was disappointed when the deal fell through and Favre ended up going to the Jets rather than Tampa.

[SkyDog112046]

He's a future 1st ballot HOFer. Based on the definition of what a 1st ballot HOFer is, yes he is among the greatest ever and certainly among the greatest of his own era. If he isn't, he won't go into the HOF on the 1st ballot. But he will go into the HOF on the 1st ballot, which proves me right.

Every single poster in this thread may disagree with me, but every single poster in this thread (including myself) has no real credibility on this subject. The people who do have credibility are the ones who will vote him into the HOF on the 1st ballot. People like John Madden and Jon Gruden have a helluva lot more credibility than random people posting on message boards who are sick and tired of hearing about him.

No, not everybody is going to agree that he's #1 on the list of greatest QBs ever to play the game... and that's fine. But anybody with any amount of objectivity would agree that he is somewhere on that list. To say he's "nowhere close" shows an obvious and irrational bias against him when his track record overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

I don't think anyone has said he's not a 1st ballot HOF'er. He most certainly is. And he's fun to watch. But he is certainly not the greatest QB to ever play, he really couldn't be considered one of the top 5 QB's of the modern era because of his tendency to make too many mistakes. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with being something like the 8th-10th best QB of the past 45 years. That's some damn good company.

Favre could do something to change people's opinion of him. He could back off a little on his wild throws, ride his RB, trust his defense and do a little more game management this season and avoid the late season or post season meltdowns that he is famous for and get another ring. Maybe next time when he is facing 2nd & 8 late in a close playoff game he'll throw it away rather than lob a wounded duck into the secondary and give away another game. His track record says he'll do it again. If he plays it smart next time that will change more opinions than anything that anyone can say about him.

[bane]

The way most of you people talk about Favre you'd think he was some marginal player rather than the future 1st ballot HOFer that he is.

Favre is a great player, but he's not anywhere close to the greatest player, not ever and not even in his own era. That's the thing that you refuse to admit. Farve has had a fantastic career. He has a lot of intangibles that I find admirable, but he's always been too reckless to ever be considered among the very best. Did you ever stop to think that when every single poster in this thread disagrees with you that you might, just maybe, possibly, be wrong?

He's a future 1st ballot HOFer. Based on the definition of what a 1st ballot HOFer is, yes he is among the greatest ever and certainly among the greatest of his own era. If he isn't, he won't go into the HOF on the 1st ballot. But he will go into the HOF on the 1st ballot, which proves me right.

Every single poster in this thread may disagree with me, but every single poster in this thread (including myself) has no real credibility on this subject. The people who do have credibility are the ones who will vote him into the HOF on the 1st ballot. People like John Madden and Jon Gruden have a helluva lot more credibility than random people posting on message boards who are sick and tired of hearing about him.

No, not everybody is going to agree that he's #1 on the list of greatest QBs ever to play the game... and that's fine. But anybody with any amount of objectivity would agree that he is somewhere on that list. To say he's "nowhere close" shows an obvious and irrational bias against him when his track record overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

Nobody, not one single person in this thread, has argued against Favre being a great player. He is a great player, and he will go down as one of the all time greats. That said, he's MAYBE top 10. I think the majority of us here as well as the majority of football fans would agree with that. I'd rank him a little lower personally, but we'd have to get into more subjective territory to do that, so I'll concede a lower half of the top 10 slot as a rational ranking for him. Still, by my definition that isn't all that close to being the best. He isn't in the same league as the top 4 or 5 guys. He just isn't. He's in select company to be sure, and top 10 is still way better than the vast majority of guys that have played that position, but it isn't anywhere close to THE best. I have no bias against Favre. I've always liked Favre actually. What I don't have, and what you obviously DO have is a bias towards him.

[thejuggernaut]

As an announcer looking for a gig, he fawns over him a lot.

Yet, when he had a chance to get him, he passed on it. And this is a man who collects Qbs and especially loves veterans.

He also benched Garcia when Garcia went off script.

His passing on Favre despite him meeting most of Gruden's criteria speaks volumes.

Gruden never "passed" on Favre. He thought he had him, and was disappointed when the deal fell through and Favre ended up going to the Jets rather than Tampa.

If he wanted him badly enough he'd have obtained him.

[UtahRatt]

Whats going into the Hall on the 1st ballot have to do with....."He's the best ever! Better then Montana or Brady!" ?

What a delusional fuckwad.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

If he wanted him badly enough he'd have obtained him.

Sigh...

"Jon Gruden will be in the broadcast booth Monday night at the Metrodome to provide analysis of Brett Favre's performance against the Packers. But if things had worked out the way Gruden wanted a year ago, he and Favre might be on the field together as members of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers."

Gruden thought Favre was headed to Bucs in '08

Like I said, he didn't "pass" on him as you suggested. Good god dude, how many times do I have to keep proving you wrong?

[Monsters_of_Rock]

Whats going into the Hall on the 1st ballot have to do with....."He's the best ever! Better then Montana or Brady!" ?

What a delusional fuckwad.

Where did I state that being a 1st ballot HOFer makes him better than Montana or Brady? I do consider him better than Montana or Brady, but the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is not the reason why. I just said the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is the reason why you have to at least admit that he's somewhere on the short list of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. Where exactly he ranks on that list will vary from one person to the next, but anybody who leaves him off the list entirely is being blatantly unobjective.

[thejuggernaut]

If he wanted him badly enough he'd have obtained him.

Sigh...

"Jon Gruden will be in the broadcast booth Monday night at the Metrodome to provide analysis of Brett Favre's performance against the Packers. But if things had worked out the way Gruden wanted a year ago, he and Favre might be on the field together as members of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers."

Gruden thought Favre was headed to Bucs in '08

Like I said, he didn't "pass" on him as you suggested. Good god dude, how many times do I have to keep proving you wrong?

When did you start proving me wrong ?

You haven't been right about a single fucking thing yet.

Bruce Allen was the GM. Bruce Allen is essentially Gruden's lapdog. Gruden was the decision maker, and Allen's job was to manage the books.

The Bucs were in "win now" mode.

Had Gruden REALLY wanted Favre, he'd have ordered his friend (and lapdog) to sell the farm.

He didn't. They didn't get him. Thus, he couldn't have wanted him THAT badly.

[UtahRatt]

Where did I state that being a 1st ballot HOFer makes him better than Montana or Brady? I do consider him better than Montana or Brady, but the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is not the reason why. I just said the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is the reason why you have to at least admit that he's somewhere on the short list of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. Where exactly he ranks on that list will vary from one person to the next, but anybody who leaves him off the list entirely is being blatantly unobjective.

So anyone who leaves him of the list is blatantly objective?

Anyone watch the Top 10 Clutch QB's on the NFL network?

The only time they mentioned Farve was saying part of being a clutch QB is by not making bad decisions during clutch moments!

10. Dan Marino
9. Steve Young
8. Bart Starr
7. Otto Graham
6. Ken Stabler
5. Johnny Unitas
4. Roger Staubach
3. TOM BRADY
2. John Elway
1. Joe Montana


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id= ... nfirm=true

[demolition23]

Matt Cassel stepped in last year and gave them the same productivity that Brady has given them in all but one season.

Brady's productivity with Moss and Welker dwarfed Cassel's productivity with Moss and Welker...

...and Cassel needed receivers like Moss and Welker to match to sort of stats Brady got with lesser receivers.

So your point is...?

[SkyDog112046]

Whats going into the Hall on the 1st ballot have to do with....."He's the best ever! Better then Montana or Brady!" ?

What a delusional fuckwad.

Where did I state that being a 1st ballot HOFer makes him better than Montana or Brady? I do consider him better than Montana or Brady, but the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is not the reason why. I just said the fact that he's going to be a 1st ballot HOFer is the reason why you have to at least admit that he's somewhere on the short list of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. Where exactly he ranks on that list will vary from one person to the next, but anybody who leaves him off the list entirely is being blatantly unobjective.

Lot's of players are 1st ballot HOF'ers, and that doesn't necessarily make them in the top 10 at their position.

How can you consider Captain INT better that 2 guys who consistently competed for and won championships and were the driving forces behind those victories?

Favre isn't on the short list of greatest QB's. A short list is 3 or 4 players long and would include Montana, Elway, Brady, and at most one more successful QB not named Favre. Favre is somewhere down around 8-10, just outside of the short list.

And to illustrate the point, I will ask everyone here to put up their Short List of the Greatest QB's in NFL History. Keep it to 3 or 4 QB's from the modern era. My guess is that only 1 person is going to have Brett Favre listed.

Here is mine:
1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Brady
4. Unitas

Montana is clearly 1st, Elway is 2nd for now but Brady can pass him with another championship. Unitas played before and at the beginning of the modern era and set the standard for QB play for everyone who came afterward. If pushed to adding a 5th name I would have to go with Bart Starr for his 5 championships in 7 seasons while calling his own plays.

It's not easy to make up the list, and there are several more QB's that I would have to put on the list such as Staubach, Young, Manning, and Marino(who took more fatally flawed teams deep into the playoffs than any other QB I can recall) before even considering Favre. I think most objective people would rank Favre somewhere right around 9th or 10th. This ought to be interesting. Maybe this QB rating should be it's own thread?

[MickeyG]

Farve just got picked with a minute left with his team trailing.

Nothing new there then.

[UtahRatt]

How bout Favre in the last 10 minutes of the 4th today?

Fumble inside the redzone returned for a TD.

INT inside game tying field goal range returned for TD.


I was gonna start a thread "Bret Favre : Least valuable player?" But that would have been stupid.

[killeverything]

I'm not a big football fan. Okay not really at all, but I didn't start hearing how Favre was a great QB until Montana, Elway, Young, Marino, etc. were retired. Basically there was no one left so everyone was all "I guess that Favre guy is good".

Then Brady and Manning came into the game, and Favre was pushed right back down to the bottom where he always was. He'll be a HOF'er because he's played for a really long time, so he holds some records. Other than that, the guy doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the other guys.

I wouldn't mind hearing him pass along how he feels about that......but it would probably just be intercepted.

[SkyDog112046]

Vintage Favre today. Down 13-10 with the ball on the opponent's 8 yardline an he turns what should be a minimum of a FG to tie the game into 7 points for the other team to put his team down by 10. Then after his kick returner bails him out to get his team back within 3 the very next time he gets the ball he drives down the field only to put up one of his patented INT for a TD's. Game, set, match. Thanks Brett!!

They ought to change the name from "INT for TD" or "Pick 6" to "A Favre". As in, "That QB drove his team down the field and gave his team a chance to pull out the win but then he threw A Favre and cost his team the game.

Enjoy Vikes fans - there will be 2 or 3 more of these coming this season, most likely around weeks 14 - 17 and most certainly the first week of the playoffs.

I wonder if Vegas will lay a bet on Favre throwing and INT for TD in the playoffs? And I wonder what the over/under is on his INTs in the playoffs?

[SkyDog112046]

One more thing. As pointed out earlier in this thread by Juggernaut there are 3 current QB's who are known gunslingers. And each one of them has thrown at least 1 interception this weekend that led directly to 7 points for the opponent. And as of right now it appears they are going 0-3 this weekend. Isn't that special.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

Farve just got picked with a minute left with his team trailing.

Nothing new there then.

Did you even see the play? All the stats will tell you is that Favre got picked off, but if you watched it you would know that the ball was tipped. Chester Taylor has to catch that ball. That pick is on Taylor, not Favre, and I'm sure even Taylor himself would tell you that.

But all things considered, I think it's good for the Vikings to lose at least one game in the regular season. Going 16-0 in the regular season only sets a team up for failure in the postseason. You have a much better chance to win a Super Bowl by going anywhere from 12-4 to 15-1.

[JakeYonkel]

I would say that the best QB in the league right now is Peyton Manning. Hell, when healthy, I'd venture to say Carson Palmer is right there with him.

In the modern era... I'd take Montana, Elway, Bradshaw, Manning, and Brady, in no specific order. Give me (multiple) rings first, but I honestly think Manning is a better pure "QB" than most.