Exactly, just once. So he had one freakishly awesome year and a bunch of very good but not great ones. Aside from that one season, the guy hasn't been nearly as great as advertised. He's good, but overrated. Let's see him compile a handful of 30+ TD seasons and then I'll be on board. Till then, I'm not going to slobber all over his dick like thejuggernaut does.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
Exactly, just once. So he had one freakishly awesome year and a bunch of very good but not great ones. Aside from that one season, the guy hasn't been nearly as great as advertised. He's good, but overrated. Let's see him compile a handful of 30+ TD seasons and then I'll be on board. Till then, I'm not going to slobber all over his dick like thejuggernaut does.
He's still had a bunch of great years. Depending on your measure of "great". When did 30+ TD passes become the benchmark? He has NEVER, not once, thrown as many INTs as he has TDs. Favre has done that 6 times. Put that in perspective. Over his career, your boy was as, or even more likely to throw an interception than he was a touchdown 1/3 of the time. That's a huge number in the against column to me. Brady is far more cautious. He also has a far better win / loss ratio. Coincidence? They're both great, but they're very different QBs in different system. They both have their strong points and they both have their negatives. You need to look at the full picture to make valid comparisons.
Last edited by bane on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unfortunately Favre is down 3 Super Bowl rings to 1...ask ANY personnel man from the NFL, they'll all take the winner vs the gun slinger who's reckless as fuck every time. However, I'll humor your dumb ass:
Favre's seasons over 30 TD passes: 8
Favre's seasons over 20 INTs: 6
Career QB rating: 85.9
Brady's seasons over 30 TD passes: 1
Brady's seasons over 20 INTs: 0
Career QB rating: 93.3
No QB with 6 seasons over 20 INTs WHO ONLY HAS 1 SUPER BOWL RING can be considered the best ever. None. Too reckless. And don't talk about talent around the QB like you normally do, because Favre's receivers have ALWAYS been better than the mess Brady used to work with, the few seasons with Welker and Moss aside.
Exactly, just once. So he had one freakishly awesome year and a bunch of very good but not great ones. Aside from that one season, the guy hasn't been nearly as great as advertised. He's good, but overrated. Let's see him compile a handful of 30+ TD seasons and then I'll be on board. Till then, I'm not going to slobber all over his dick like thejuggernaut does.
How many times has Brady thrown as many, or more, INTs as TDs ?
Answer - NEVER.
Favre - 4 times.
P.S. You are aware that I am neither a Patriots nor a Brady fan, right ?
SkyDog112046 wrote:Let me get this straight. MOR thinks winning is overrated?
Try asking Dan Marino how many TD passes he would have given back to get 1 ring....
MOR lives in a fantasy world, wrought with his own illiteracy, where he thinks team management values individual statistical prowess over team success.
I mean, jesus, his Favre ballwashing is worse than your all things New England ballwashing.
thejuggernaut wrote: How many times has Brady thrown as many, or more, INTs as TDs ?
Answer - NEVER.
Favre - 4 times.
P.S. You are aware that I am neither a Patriots nor a Brady fan, right ?
Actually, it's 6. He threw more INTs than TDs 4 times, he threw a 50/50 split twice. He has some very gaudy numbers in the plus column, but when 1/3 of his career shows negative numbers like that, it's tough to ignore. Bear in mind this wasn't at the beginning while he was learning or the end of his career while he was declining either. These are spread throughout. It shows a pattern of a guy who has been reckless his entire career.
thejuggernaut wrote: How many times has Brady thrown as many, or more, INTs as TDs ?
Answer - NEVER.
Favre - 4 times.
P.S. You are aware that I am neither a Patriots nor a Brady fan, right ?
Actually, it's 6. He threw more INTs than TDs 4 times, he threw a 50/50 split twice. He has some very gaudy numbers in the plus column, but when 1/3 of his career shows negative numbers like that, it's tough to ignore. Bear in mind this wasn't at the beginning while he was learning or the end of his career while he was declining either. These are spread throughout. It shows a pattern of a guy who has been reckless his entire career.
Oops, seems I was only counting the instances where the totals were in the 20s.
However, let's compromise and call it 5 times - one time was his rookie season, which really shouldn't be counted in the total.
Regardless, it is noteworthy that he did only have 4 attempts his rookie year and %50 of those attempts were interceptions.
To me, the averaging over an int per game for his career is probably the worst stat of all.
SkyDog112046 wrote:Let me get this straight. MOR thinks winning is overrated?
Try asking Dan Marino how many TD passes he would have given back to get 1 ring....
No, of course winning isn't overrated. But winning is a team accomplishment, not an individual accomplishment. You can't say player A is better than player B based on the fact that player A's team won more game than player B's team.
If I was on a great team and you were on a shitty team would that automatically make me better than you? Of course not.
Last edited by Monsters_of_Rock on Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
Exactly, just once. So he had one freakishly awesome year and a bunch of very good but not great ones. Aside from that one season, the guy hasn't been nearly as great as advertised. He's good, but overrated. Let's see him compile a handful of 30+ TD seasons and then I'll be on board. Till then, I'm not going to slobber all over his dick like thejuggernaut does.
He's still had a bunch of great years. Depending on your measure of "great". When did 30+ TD passes become the benchmark? He has NEVER, not once, thrown as many INTs as he has TDs. Favre has done that 6 times. Put that in perspective. Over his career, your boy was as, or even more likely to throw an interception than he was a touchdown 1/3 of the time. That's a huge number in the against column to me. Brady is far more cautious. He also has a far better win / loss ratio. Coincidence? They're both great, but they're very different QBs in different system. They both have their strong points and they both have their negatives. You need to look at the full picture to make valid comparisons.
The underlined part is why Tom Brady isn't as great as people make him out to be. Great QBs aren't cautious. Great QBs have the courage to take some chances once in a while when the situation calls for it. When I think of cautious QBs I think of Neil O'Donnell. Cautious is the last thing I want my QB to be.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
bane wrote:
He's still had a bunch of great years. Depending on your measure of "great". When did 30+ TD passes become the benchmark? He has NEVER, not once, thrown as many INTs as he has TDs. Favre has done that 6 times. Put that in perspective. Over his career, your boy was as, or even more likely to throw an interception than he was a touchdown 1/3 of the time. That's a huge number in the against column to me. Brady is far more cautious. He also has a far better win / loss ratio. Coincidence? They're both great, but they're very different QBs in different system. They both have their strong points and they both have their negatives. You need to look at the full picture to make valid comparisons.
The underlined part is why Tom Brady isn't as great as people make him out to be. Great QBs aren't cautious. Great QBs have the courage to take some chances once in a while when the situation calls for it. When I think of cautious QBs I think of Neil O'Donnell. Cautious is the last thing I want my QB to be.
Punk wrote:Do you just throw a bunch of stupid answers in a bag and then randomly select one and post it?
There can be no other explanation.
"I'd rather my QB takes all kinds of crazy chances than to just be cautious and win a bunch of Super Bowls!!"
You don't take "all kinds of crazy chances" just for the hell of it, but when the situation calls for it a QB can't be afraid to roll the dice. I don't want a cautious QB when the going gets tough. Luckily for Tom Brady, he plays for a team that rarely puts him into those type of situations. 99% of QBs aren't as fortunate.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
Punk wrote:Do you just throw a bunch of stupid answers in a bag and then randomly select one and post it?
There can be no other explanation.
"I'd rather my QB takes all kinds of crazy chances than to just be cautious and win a bunch of Super Bowls!!"
I'd like to see a list of SB winning QBs, broken down by cautious QBs vs gunslinger types.
Here's the list, you tell me which ones were cautious and which ones were gunslinger types.
Bart Starr
Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Johnny Unitas
Roger Staubach
Bob Griese
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Mark Rypien
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Brett Favre
John Elway
Kurt Warner
Trent Dilfer
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
Monsters_of_Rock wrote:Luckily for Tom Brady, he doesn't throw ill-conceived passes into triple coverage in the 4th quarter of playoff games and cost his team a shot at a championship.
Punk wrote:Do you just throw a bunch of stupid answers in a bag and then randomly select one and post it?
There can be no other explanation.
"I'd rather my QB takes all kinds of crazy chances than to just be cautious and win a bunch of Super Bowls!!"
You don't take "all kinds of crazy chances" just for the hell of it, but when the situation calls for it a QB can't be afraid to roll the dice. I don't want a cautious QB when the going gets tough. Luckily for Tom Brady, he plays for a team that rarely puts him into those type of situations. 99% of QBs aren't as fortunate.
That is fucking retarded. The best quarterbacks make the least mistakes while still throwing the ball. You know damn well what I meant by "cautious". Peyton Manning isn't afraid to throw the ball, but he doesn't force it into triple fucking coverage when he's got a guy open underneath. Brady does the same thing. Brett Favre is just as likely to try and force it into coverage and maybe he gets lucky (kind of like that bomb he threw last week at the end of the game) or maybe he gets picked off, but the bottom line is, that kind of risky bullshit isn't necessary most of the time. You can get away with that crap when you have 25 seconds and need to move 60 yards because, hey, it's desperation time, but it's moronic when you have 2 minutes to do the same thing. It might get you on Sportscenter, but it loses you as many games as it wins.
Punk wrote:Do you just throw a bunch of stupid answers in a bag and then randomly select one and post it?
There can be no other explanation.
"I'd rather my QB takes all kinds of crazy chances than to just be cautious and win a bunch of Super Bowls!!"
You don't take "all kinds of crazy chances" just for the hell of it, but when the situation calls for it a QB can't be afraid to roll the dice. I don't want a cautious QB when the going gets tough. Luckily for Tom Brady, he plays for a team that rarely puts him into those type of situations. 99% of QBs aren't as fortunate.
That is fucking retarded. The best quarterbacks make the least mistakes while still throwing the ball. You know damn well what I meant by "cautious". Peyton Manning isn't afraid to throw the ball, but he doesn't force it into triple fucking coverage when he's got a guy open underneath. Brady does the same thing. Brett Favre is just as likely to try and force it into coverage and maybe he gets lucky (kind of like that bomb he threw last week at the end of the game) or maybe he gets picked off, but the bottom line is, that kind of risky bullshit isn't necessary most of the time. You can get away with that crap when you have 25 seconds and need to move 60 yards because, hey, it's desperation time, but it's moronic when you have 2 minutes to do the same thing. It might get you on Sportscenter, but it loses you as many games as it wins.
Favre doesn't take those kind of chances until he absolutely has to. Like I said... when the situation calls for it. The vast majority of the alleged "stupid mistakes" in Favre's career have occured during desperation time, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.
All of the games that Favre ever lost by taking chances are games that he still would have lost by being cautious, but at the same time of all the games he won by taking chances he wouldn't have won any of them by being cautious.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
Was it necessary in that game last week that he only won because the other team's kicker missed? He threw a 40 yard bomb to a well covered receiver with a ton of time left on the clock and ended up giving his opponent the ball back with time and only needing a 3 to win. That's what I call lucky and fucking dumb, not "absolutely neccessary", but hey, don't let the facts get in the way while you're sucking his dick.
Punk wrote:Do you just throw a bunch of stupid answers in a bag and then randomly select one and post it?
There can be no other explanation.
"I'd rather my QB takes all kinds of crazy chances than to just be cautious and win a bunch of Super Bowls!!"
I'd like to see a list of SB winning QBs, broken down by cautious QBs vs gunslinger types.
Here's the list, you tell me which ones were cautious and which ones were gunslinger types.
Bart Starr
Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Johnny Unitas
Roger Staubach
Bob Griese
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Joe Montana
Joe Theismann
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Doug Williams
Jeff Hostetler
Mark Rypien
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Brett Favre
John Elway
Kurt Warner
Trent Dilfer
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
How about YOU tell US which ones you consider to be gunslingers.
bane wrote:Was it necessary in that game last week that he only won because the other team's kicker missed? He threw a 40 yard bomb to a well covered receiver with a ton of time left on the clock and ended up giving his opponent the ball back with time and only needing a 3 to win. That's what I call lucky and fucking dumb, not "absolutely neccessary", but hey, don't let the facts get in the way while you're sucking his dick.
When he threw that pass the Vikings were behind and time was running out, down near the two minute mark.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
tyke wrote:So, MOR.... let's try this one real quick.
Super Bowl.
4th Quarter, tie game, 2:45 left on the clock, on your own 20 yard line...
What QB would you want leading your team down the field for a shot at the win?
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
John Elway
Joe Montana
Jim Kelly
Bret Favre
Well, my first two choices (Roger Staubach and Ken Stabler) aren't even given as choices here. But of the choices given, in that particular scenario I would rank them in this order...
1. John Elway
2. Peyton Manning
3. Joe Montana
4. Brett Favre
5. Tom Brady
6. Jim Kelly
Now, that isn't how I rank those six guys overall as quarterbacks. That's the order in which I rank them for that specific situation. So, while I have now conceded that there are some QBs who might be slightly better than Favre in the last two minutes of a game I stand behind my opinion that for the entire 60 minutes of the game there's nobody else I'd rather have.
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
thejuggernaut wrote:How about YOU tell US which ones you consider to be gunslingers.
Okay, first of all the only "cautious" ones on the list are Griese, Montana, Hostetler, Aikman, Brady, and Dilfer. But that doesn't mean the others are all gunslingers either. I think that some of those guys are not really one extreme or the other, but more of a happy medium. However, I think any of the following could be called gunslingers:
Roger Staubach
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Jim Plunkett
Doug Williams
Mark Rypien
Steve Young
Brett Favre
John Elway
Kurt Warner
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
"We're gonna score 17? OK!!! What is Plaxico playing defense now?"
--Tom Brady
bane wrote:Was it necessary in that game last week that he only won because the other team's kicker missed? He threw a 40 yard bomb to a well covered receiver with a ton of time left on the clock and ended up giving his opponent the ball back with time and only needing a 3 to win. That's what I call lucky and fucking dumb, not "absolutely neccessary", but hey, don't let the facts get in the way while you're sucking his dick.
When he threw that pass the Vikings were behind and time was running out, down near the two minute mark.
Exactly. He needed to eat clock AND score, not throw unnecessary 40 yard bombs into coverage.
4th Quarter, tie game, 2:45 left on the clock, on your own 20 yard line...
What QB would you want leading your team down the field for a shot at the win?
1. John Elway
2. Peyton Manning
3. Joe Montana 4. Brett Favre
5. Tom Brady
6. Jim Kelly
Seriously? Because all Brady has done is drive down the field in a two minute scenario three seperate times to capture a Super Bowl ring for his team. That's just crazy talk right there.
