Peyton Manning and Brett Favre - Super Bowl winners

[thejuggernaut]

Yes, they each have a ring.

Yes, Manning will end up breaking most, if not all, of Favre's records (except for the interceptions record, of course)

However, they are both big game "choke artists".

People are inclined to say "but .....but ......but .....Manning has a ring, so does Favre."

Yes, they do.

Manning's ring came when the opposing QB was Rex Fucking Grossman, and Favre's ring came when the opposing QB was Drew Bledsoe.

Notice how, when they went against COMPETENT QBs (Elway and Brees), the result was much different ?

[UtahRatt]

Brett is a retarded gun slinging choke artist with more arm then brains, Peyton is more intelligent and one of the most prepared QB's ever but is still more human then people believe. The book is still out on Peyton, I'd like to say he's better then that but it seems obvious if you put either in a big game up against the likes of Brady or Montana they're not on the same level.

Peyton tossed the nail in the coffin but to me the game was won because they got out coached. Take that one pass away and it's a clean game for Peyton. Why throw 45 times when their ground game was effective? Sure the short passing game is their replacement but when your ground game is working....Go with it!

[thejuggernaut]

Brett is a retarded gun slinging choke artist with more arm then brains, Peyton is more intelligent and one of the most prepared QB's ever but is still more human then people believe. The book is still out on Peyton, I'd like to say he's better then that but it seems obvious if you put either in a big game up against the likes of Brady or Montana they're not on the same level.

Peyton tossed the nail in the coffin but to me the game was won because they got out coached. Take that one pass away and it's a clean game for Peyton. Why throw 45 times when their ground game was effective? Sure the short passing game is their replacement but when your ground game is working....Go with it!

Agreed. The one thing that's always been a shortcoming for Manning is something Phil Simms alluded to last night in the 4th Q.

He said Gregg Williams talked about saving something specifically for the 4th Q.

Manning is a robot in that he is able to digest everything he sees. However, he is also a robot in his inability to adapt on the fly. It's always been the case, dating back to his days as UT. Show Manning something he's seen on tape and he'll pick you apart. Show him something he's never seen and he'll probably toss a pick.

[UtahRatt]

While on that same subject Brett reminds me of Kurt Russell in the move "The Best of Times"

So what type of offense will Taft be running? Offense? They're probably drawing plays in the dirt!

I sometimes wonder how good Brett would be if he had Peyton's drive as a student...Brett's head would probably explode. If I was Childress I'd tell Brett "Clearly you don't wanna practice, show up when you want but would it be too much to ask too look at film and talk with a coordinator during the off season?"

Brett comes off as a QB that don't wanna do anything other then hit the field and start launching missiles.

[thejuggernaut]

While on that same subject Brett reminds me of Kurt Russell in the move "The Best of Times"

So what type of offense will Taft be running? Offense? They're probably drawing plays in the dirt!

I sometimes wonder how good Brett would be if he had Peyton's drive as a student...Brett's head would probably explode. If I was Childress I'd tell Brett "Clearly you don't wanna practice, show up when you want but would it be too much to ask too look at film and talk with a coordinator during the off season?"

Brett comes off as a QB that don't wanna do anything other then hit the field and start launching missiles.

But.....but....but......he's down to earth because he wears tshirts and jeans, and he's having fun out there playing the game like a kid.

[johnk5150]

Yes, they each have a ring.

Yes, Manning will end up breaking most, if not all, of Favre's records (except for the interceptions record, of course)

However, they are both big game "choke artists".

People are inclined to say "but .....but ......but .....Manning has a ring, so does Favre."

Yes, they do.

Manning's ring came when the opposing QB was Rex Fucking Grossman, and Favre's ring came when the opposing QB was Drew Bledsoe.

Notice how, when they went against COMPETENT QBs (Elway and Brees), the result was much different ?

Grossman had nothing to do with the Colts rushing for 190 yards against the Bears while being one of the worst running teams in the game. 22 players lost the game for the Bears that day, not one. Oh, and I don't give a shit about Peytong versus Favre.

[thejuggernaut]

Grossman had nothing to do with the Colts rushing for 190 yards against the Bears while being one of the worst running teams in the game. 22 players lost the game for the Bears that day, not one.

You're right. His two ints and 2 fumbles (one lost) had ZERO impact on anything.

And what do you mean, one of the worst running teams in the game d? They finished in the top half of league rushing that year. Indy did not.

Or do you mean one of the worst in THAT game ie the SB ? Well, yeah, someone has to have lower rushing stats.

However, Thomas Jones averaged over 7 yards pop but only got 15 carries, whereas Indy was in a position to run the ball more because they weren't turning the ball over as much and they gladly ran the ball, forcing the incompetent Grossman to have to work against the clock.

Oh, and I don't give a shit about Peytong versus Favre.

Oh, and I don't remember asking for johnk5150's take on it Peytong versus Favre.

If you're that upset about Manning and Favre mocking on account of MOR and P13 because it involves one of your teams, perhaps this is not the thread for you.

[SkyDog112046]

The big debate about this past decade is Brady vs Manning. Manning might have better stat and more individual awards, but Brady has individual awards and a bunch of records too but more importantly he has more wins when it counts.

Brady made 5 AFC Championship games and 4 Superbowls in 8 seasons as a starter and won 3 rings. Manning has been to 3 AFC Championship games, 2 Superbowls in 12 seasons, and has 1 ring. Brady's playoff record is 14-4, and Manning's is 9-9.

Had Manning won that game yesterday then the people who rank Manning ahead of Brady might have a legitimate argument, but as it stands right now Brady has been the better QB.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

The big debate about this past decade is Brady vs Manning. Manning might have better stat and more individual awards, but Brady has individual awards and a bunch of records too but more importantly he has more wins when it counts.

Brady made 5 AFC Championship games and 4 Superbowls in 8 seasons as a starter and won 3 rings. Manning has been to 3 AFC Championship games, 2 Superbowls in 12 seasons, and has 1 ring. Brady's playoff record is 14-4, and Manning's is 9-9.

Had Manning won that game yesterday then the people who rank Manning ahead of Brady might have a legitimate argument, but as it stands right now Brady has been the better QB.

Those New England teams would have been just as good with any of the top 15 to 20 QBs in the league during that era. Brady is good but extremely overrated. He's a great example of QBs get way too much credit when their team wins. Those Colts teams would likely not have even made the playoffs without Manning. He's an example of QBs get way too much blame when their team loses. Brady has played for better teams than Manning has played for, but Manning is the better QB and it isn't even close.

[JakeYonkel]

One tard leaves, another returns. Coincidence?

[SkyDog112046]

The big debate about this past decade is Brady vs Manning. Manning might have better stat and more individual awards, but Brady has individual awards and a bunch of records too but more importantly he has more wins when it counts.

Brady made 5 AFC Championship games and 4 Superbowls in 8 seasons as a starter and won 3 rings. Manning has been to 3 AFC Championship games, 2 Superbowls in 12 seasons, and has 1 ring. Brady's playoff record is 14-4, and Manning's is 9-9.

Had Manning won that game yesterday then the people who rank Manning ahead of Brady might have a legitimate argument, but as it stands right now Brady has been the better QB.

Those New England teams would have been just as good with any of the top 15 to 20 QBs in the league during that era. Brady is good but extremely overrated. He's a great example of QBs get way too much credit when their team wins. Those Colts teams would likely not have even made the playoffs without Manning. He's an example of QBs get way too much blame when their team loses. Brady has played for better teams than Manning has played for, but Manning is the better QB and it isn't even close.

The reason Brady's teams were successful is that he made them successful. He took over an 0-2 team and got it to the Superbowl by playing smart football. His receivers were cast-offs and retreads. He had no Tight End and his RB was Antawain Smith. How is that better than having Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Edgerin James? The only offensive advantage Brady had over Manning was kicker. It's not like Brady stepped in for Montana in the late 80's 49'ers offense. That 2001 team would have been 8-8 at best with Bledsoe running the offense.

The 2003 and 2004 teams finally gave Brady an RB, but his receivers were nothing special. Branch was his best receiver and he would have been nothing more than a #2 anywhere else. When Brady finally got some receivers he put up a bunch of records and had his team within a minute of a perfect season. With a defense that was starting to look over the hill and an offensive line that couldn't handle elite pass rushers. How does that make him overrated?

[thejuggernaut]

Brady is good but extremely overrated. He's a great example of QBs get way too much credit when their team wins. Those Colts teams would likely not have even made the playoffs without Manning.

Welcome back, ball washer.

Felt that enough time has gone by from another Favre meltdown ?

[thejuggernaut]

The reason Brady's teams were successful is that he made them successful. He took over an 0-2 team and got it to the Superbowl by playing smart football. His receivers were cast-offs and retreads. He had no Tight End and his RB was Antawain Smith. How is that better than having Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Edgerin James? The only offensive advantage Brady had over Manning was kicker. It's not like Brady stepped in for Montana in the late 80's 49'ers offense. That 2001 team would have been 8-8 at best with Bledsoe running the offense.

The 2003 and 2004 teams finally gave Brady an RB, but his receivers were nothing special. Branch was his best receiver and he would have been nothing more than a #2 anywhere else. When Brady finally got some receivers he put up a bunch of records and had his team within a minute of a perfect season. With a defense that was starting to look over the hill and an offensive line that couldn't handle elite pass rushers. How does that make him overrated?

The Pats were 5-11 in 200 with Bledsoe. They were 0-2 in 2001. 8-8 is generous.

Cue the part where monsters of retards claims "but......Bledsoe won the playoff game when Brady was hurt".

[Crazy Levi]

Yes, they each have a ring.

Yes, Manning will end up breaking most, if not all, of Favre's records (except for the interceptions record, of course)

However, they are both big game "choke artists".

People are inclined to say "but .....but ......but .....Manning has a ring, so does Favre."

Yes, they do.

Manning's ring came when the opposing QB was Rex Fucking Grossman, and Favre's ring came when the opposing QB was Drew Bledsoe.

Notice how, when they went against COMPETENT QBs (Elway and Brees), the result was much different ?

Ehhh I'd take it easy on Manning. he's not a "choke artist." And that pass wasn't great, but the real story on that play was an excellent play by the Defense and a coaching victory...they were looking for that play. I don't see how you can really compare it with the boneheaded Farve meltdowns.

Manning played a very good game and the Saints D...whom everyone seems to think is dogshit but is in fact one of the best ones at creating turnovers I've ever seen...came through AGAIN in the clutch.

[thejuggernaut]

Yes, they each have a ring.

Yes, Manning will end up breaking most, if not all, of Favre's records (except for the interceptions record, of course)

However, they are both big game "choke artists".

People are inclined to say "but .....but ......but .....Manning has a ring, so does Favre."

Yes, they do.

Manning's ring came when the opposing QB was Rex Fucking Grossman, and Favre's ring came when the opposing QB was Drew Bledsoe.

Notice how, when they went against COMPETENT QBs (Elway and Brees), the result was much different ?

Ehhh I'd take it easy on Manning. he's not a "choke artist." And that pass wasn't great, but the real story on that play was an excellent play by the Defense and a coaching victory...they were looking for that play. I don't see how you can really compare it with the boneheaded Farve meltdowns.

Manning played a very good game and the Saints D...whom everyone seems to think is dogshit but is in fact one of the best ones at creating turnovers I've ever seen...came through AGAIN in the clutch.

He's not a level of gaggery with Favre, but he most certainly does have a tendency to do the worst possible things at the worst possible times in big games.

It's been that way since he was at UT.

The whole knock on Manning, prior to his not sucking as bad as Rex Grossman in the SB, was he couldn't win the big one.

The main difference between the two is Manning is a smart QB who doesn't have much in the way of improvisational skills when faced with something he hasn't seen.

Favre just isn't smart. At all.

[SkyDog112046]

The main difference between the two is Manning is a smart QB who doesn't have much in the way of improvisational skills when faced with something he hasn't seen.[/color][/size]

That is Manning's biggest weakness. He is always prepared to the hilt and he reads defenses better than just about any QB I've ever seen but when a team surprises him by showing him one look and doing something else he panics and will make mistakes. And then once he makes a couple of mistakes he gets frustrated and that's when he will come apart.

In the 2003 AFC Championship game Belichick switched Law from sitting back in a zone to alternating between 1-on-1 with Harrison and attacking. Manning kept looking for what he had seen on film and ended up throwing 4 INTs, 3 of them to Law. Manning couldn't adjust on the fly and couldn't keep tabs on Law because his prep work kept telling him Law would be somewhere else.

In the 2004 Divisional game between the Patriots and Colts, Belichick moved around his linebackers and had Harrison showing blitz and then dropping into coverage which went against the film Manning watched and confused him. And after each mistake New England used ball control to limit Manning's chances and frustrate him. That was the game where the shots of the Colts' sideline showed what came to be known as "The Peyton Manning Face". It's also the game where Polian started crying about receivers being jammed and eventually pushed for rule changes.

[johnk5150]

Grossman had nothing to do with the Colts rushing for 190 yards against the Bears while being one of the worst running teams in the game. 22 players lost the game for the Bears that day, not one.

You're right. His two ints and 2 fumbles (one lost) had ZERO impact on anything.

And what do you mean, one of the worst running teams in the game d? They finished in the top half of league rushing that year. Indy did not.

Read what I wrote.

[thejuggernaut]

Grossman had nothing to do with the Colts rushing for 190 yards against the Bears while being one of the worst running teams in the game. 22 players lost the game for the Bears that day, not one.

You're right. His two ints and 2 fumbles (one lost) had ZERO impact on anything.

And what do you mean, one of the worst running teams in the game d? They finished in the top half of league rushing that year. Indy did not.

Read what I wrote.

I did.

And the Bears, finishing in the top half of the league as opposed to the Colts, did NOT have one of the worst running games in the league, what with them being, you know, better than half the teams.

Did you write something in magic font only visible with a certain type of glasses ?

Perhaps you are referring to the Colts poor ranking in rushing which was more of a reflection of their injury problems with Bob Sanders out for most of the season, forcing them into situations where they had to pass and abandon the run, evidenced by a solid 4.0 while being in the bottom half of the league in attempts per game.

They had a poor ranking, but they weren't a poor rushing team.

Now, I know (at least I hope) you aren't going to say Grossman's incompetence didn't result in stalled drives (on top of the turnovers) which put Indy in a position to run the ball non stop and force Grossman to compete against the clock.

The fact of the matter is, if Grossman is even mediocre-above average that day, that game is much closer and Indy doesn't have Chicago's defense on the field for close to 2/3 of the game thus they don't pile up the numbers they did.

[johnk5150]

And the Bears, finishing in the top half of the league as opposed to the Colts, did NOT have one of the worst running games in the league, what with them being, you know, better than half the teams.

Did you write something in magic font only visible with a certain type of glasses ?[/color][/size]

Where did I say anything about the Bears rushing game?

[thejuggernaut]

What is it? Yes, true, Manning is not alone as a heartbroken quarterback. John Elway suffered a lot of heartbreak for most of his career. Dan Marino did too. Dan Fouts.

Who has suffered more heartbreak than Favre, the all-time leading everything quarterback? He's had a number of crushing losses, a litany of big moment mistakes. But, see, with Favre that only stands to reason. Favre plays on the edge. He throws the ball into double and triple teams. He has thrown 40 more interceptions than any other quarterback in NFL history. He has also thrown 130 more interceptions than Manning. Favre is that kid at school who doesn't study the night before a test. He wings it. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, not.

That's not Manning at all. Manning takes no shortcuts. He studies all night. He makes prudent choices. He does not tempt destiny. He works hard to do the right things.

So, how do you explain the crushing defeats? Manning lost only five games at Isidore High in New Orleans. Three, though, were in the state playoffs; his team never won a state championship. He was a walking legend at the University of Tennessee -- and still is one. He lost only five games there too. But three were to Florida, and the Volunteers won their national championship only after he left.

Were these his fault? No. He was the best football player on the field. But ... the losses came just the same. Manning has led the Colts to the playoffs every year but one, and there have been plenty of rough losses there, too. He lost his first three playoff games. In his fourth playoff year, he finally won a couple of games, but then threw four interceptions in a painful loss to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game. The next year -- the year Manning threw a then-record 49 touchdown passes and seemed determined to bury the past -- the Patriots held Manning and the Colts to three points. The next year, the Colts lost their playoff game at home to Pittsburgh.

Manning was despondent after that Pittsburgh loss. He talked about making his peace with the football gods. He sounded wounded and even disappointed in his teammates. He did not shy away from the elephant in the room ... the simple fact that he had trouble all his life winning the biggest games. "I cannot argue with the truth," he said sadly.

But the very next year -- when it seemed like Manning was condemned to a Schottenheimer existence of good-but-not-quite-good-enough -- he led the Colts to a Super Bowl championship. The odd thing was he did not put up particularly good numbers -- he threw only three touchdowns in the run along with six interceptions. But that didn't matter so much. He completed big passes. More, he led. He inspired. He turned around his entire persona. He was named Super Bowl MVP.

And it seemed like, yes, THIS was the real Peyton Manning. The one we had been expected. Manning was a valiant winner ... it has just taken time for him to show it and for everyone to see it. Yes, true, the Colts lost their first playoff game the next year, and again the next, but Manning put up big numbers and, anyway, he had already broken the spell. He had his Super Bowl ring.

Then, this year -- with a new head coach, a shaky defense, a new cast of receivers and no running game -- he carried the Colts to the Super Bowl. It was one of the greatest seasons and one of the greatest achievements in NFL history. In the playoffs, he refused to let the Colts lose -- with his team down 17-6 to the Jets, he threw for 377 yards and three touchdowns. That Peyton Manning -- the one who bad things happened to -- well, he was long gone.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z0eyEX8TPE
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[thejuggernaut]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar ... Category=7

[Monsters_of_Rock]

The Patriots were 11-5 last year when Brady was lost for the season in Week 1 and had to go with Matt Cassel the rest of the way. They were 11-5 against this year with Brady. Can you say overrated media darling? He was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. Belichik could have plugged any of the top 15 to 20 QBs into his system and gotten the same results.

There's no way the Colts go 11-5 without Manning one year and then 11-5 again the next year when they get him back. More than likely they're 7-9 without him, 13-3 with him. How many times has Brady thrown for 30+ TDs in a season? How many times has Manning done it? How many times has Brady passed for 4000+ yards in a season? How many times has Manning done it? There's really no comparison.

[thejuggernaut]

The Patriots were 11-5 last year when Brady was lost for the season in Week 1 and had to go with Matt Cassel the rest of the way. They were 11-5 against this year with Brady. Can you say overrated media darling? He was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. Belichik could have plugged any of the top 15 to 20 QBs into his system and gotten the same results.

There's no way the Colts go 11-5 without Manning one year and then 11-5 again the next year when they get him back. More than likely they're 7-9 without him, 13-3 with him. How many times has Brady thrown for 30+ TDs in a season? How many times has Manning done it? How many times has Brady passed for 4000+ yards in a season? How many times has Manning done it? There's really no comparison.

What's Brett Favre up to ?

Is he gonna fake another retirement so he can skip training camp ?

You know, cuz he's so down to earth.

[JakeYonkel]

^^^ This is one of the few issues that I hate to admit with these morons on, is that Brady is a system QB and really not that great. He was bailed out by Vinatieri, how many times?

Manning is twice the QB Brady is, even without as many rings to show for it.

And, Favre may not be great but he was leaps and bounds better than anything the Vikings trotted out last year.

[SkyDog112046]

2008: Cassel took over a team that Brady had guided to 16-0 and brought it in a respectable 11-5. Most people had Brady penciled in for 14-2 that season.

2009: Brady came back from a major injury and missing an entire year of football and then took a team that had lost 4 of it's best defensive players to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. He wasn't back in rhythm until mid-season, as was to be expected. It's much the same way that Manning was off after his less severe knee procedure. And Brady had lost his 3rd Offensive Coordinator in 4 seasons too.

[Heenan Snuka]

[
Manning is a robot in that he is able to digest everything he sees. However, he is also a robot in his inability to adapt on the fly. It's always been the case, dating back to his days as UT. Show Manning something he's seen on tape and he'll pick you apart. Show him something he's never seen and he'll probably toss a pick.[/color][/size]

doesn't that go for just about any quarterback? you can't knock Peyton solely on that

[Monsters_of_Rock]

What's Brett Favre up to ?

Is he gonna fake another retirement so he can skip training camp ?

You know, cuz he's so down to earth.

Who gives a shit? If he decides to play again next season I think he has earned the right to skip training camp. At his age, the Vikings should consider themselves lucky to have him under any circumstances. LMAO at all the people who get their panties in a bunch because he doesn't do training camp anymore. If you were that good at what you do and still doing it long after the time that most people in your field of work retire, you too would be allowed to play by your own rules.

[Heenan Snuka]

2008: Cassel took over a team that Brady had guided to 16-0 and brought it in a respectable 11-5. Most people had Brady penciled in for 14-2 that season.

2009: Brady came back from a major injury and missing an entire year of football and then took a team that had lost 4 of it's best defensive players to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. He wasn't back in rhythm until mid-season, as was to be expected. It's much the same way that Manning was off after his less severe knee procedure. And Brady had lost his 3rd Offensive Coordinator in 4 seasons too.

correct...plus, their schedule was much tougher than either of the 2 previous years...therefore, even though the records were about the same, you have to look at them differently

[SkyDog112046]

^^^ This is one of the few issues that I hate to admit with these morons on, is that Brady is a system QB and really not that great. He was bailed out by Vinatieri, how many times?

Manning is twice the QB Brady is, even without as many rings to show for it.

And, Favre may not be great but he was leaps and bounds better than anything the Vikings trotted out last year.

Which "system" would that be: Weis', Mangini's, McDaniel's, or O'Briens? And what about all the records in 2007? A systems QB doesn't throw 50 TDs.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

2008: Cassel took over a team that Brady had guided to 16-0 and brought it in a respectable 11-5. Most people had Brady penciled in for 14-2 that season.

2009: Brady came back from a major injury and missing an entire year of football and then took a team that had lost 4 of it's best defensive players to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. He wasn't back in rhythm until mid-season, as was to be expected. It's much the same way that Manning was off after his less severe knee procedure. And Brady had lost his 3rd Offensive Coordinator in 4 seasons too.

Nice excuses for the pretty boy media darling, but the fact remains that he is a merely a beneficiary of Belichik's system. Put Tommy Boy and Peyton both in Cleveland, let them each start 8 games, and who do you think does better? If you say Brady you seriously need your head examined.