Peyton Manning and Brett Favre - Super Bowl winners

[Heenan Snuka]

A systems QB doesn't throw 50 TDs.

[thejuggernaut]

^^^ This is one of the few issues that I hate to admit with these morons on, is that Brady is a system QB and really not that great. He was bailed out by Vinatieri, how many times?

Manning is twice the QB Brady is, even without as many rings to show for it.

And, Favre may not be great but he was leaps and bounds better than anything the Vikings trotted out last year.

Marino was twice the physical QB Montana was, alas....

[Monsters_of_Rock]

^^^ This is one of the few issues that I hate to admit with these morons on, is that Brady is a system QB and really not that great. He was bailed out by Vinatieri, how many times?

Manning is twice the QB Brady is, even without as many rings to show for it.

And, Favre may not be great but he was leaps and bounds better than anything the Vikings trotted out last year.

Which "system" would that be: Weis', Mangini's, McDaniel's, or O'Briens? And what about all the records in 2007? A systems QB doesn't throw 50 TDs.

None of the above, the system is Belichik's. The 50 TD season was amazing, but it was also out of character based on the fact that he doesn't have another single season of 30+ TDs.

[thejuggernaut]

[
Manning is a robot in that he is able to digest everything he sees. However, he is also a robot in his inability to adapt on the fly. It's always been the case, dating back to his days as UT. Show Manning something he's seen on tape and he'll pick you apart. Show him something he's never seen and he'll probably toss a pick.[/color][/size]

doesn't that go for just about any quarterback? you can't knock Peyton solely on that

Well, it goes for a lot.

The great ones adapt and improvise.

It's been that way with Manning for most of his life.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

Marino was twice the QB Montana was

Fixed.

[JakeYonkel]

Brady's got good numbers every year and he's consistent. 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb because I guess it was the perfect storm. He had some really good receivers around him for the first time and it just happened. But obviously '08 was a lost year and then this year, back to the usual. 2007 was an exception... it was a "Manning in his prime" type of year.

And I call him a system QB because you plug anybody else in and look what happens. Matt Cassel, he who hadn't taken a snap since what, high school, led them to an 11 win year. Goes to KC where he (predictably) sucks a fat cock.

And yes you've cited different O-coordinators but they've all required Brady to do the same thing - to be more exact, nothing fancy, no improv, etc. He won't scramble like Vick (even pre knee injury), he won't change the entire offense at the line like Manning, hell he won't even gun sling like Favre.

[thejuggernaut]

What's Brett Favre up to ?

Is he gonna fake another retirement so he can skip training camp ?

You know, cuz he's so down to earth.

Who gives a shit? If he decides to play again next season I think he has earned the right to skip training camp. At his age, the Vikings should consider themselves lucky to have him under any circumstances. LMAO at all the people who get their panties in a bunch because he doesn't do training camp anymore. If you were that good at what you do and still doing it long after the time that most people in your field of work retire, you too would be allowed to play by your own rules.

Perhaps if he'd gotten to camp before the middle of August, he'd have developed a rapport with his guys. Instead, he spent another playoff watching someone else win because he made a dumb throw.

[thejuggernaut]

Brady's got good numbers every year and he's consistent. 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb because I guess it was the perfect storm. He had some really good receivers around him for the first time and it just happened. But obviously '08 was a lost year and then this year, back to the usual. 2007 was an exception... it was a "Manning in his prime" type of year.

And I call him a system QB because you plug anybody else in and look what happens. Matt Cassel, he who hadn't taken a snap since what, high school, led them to an 11 win year. Goes to KC where he (predictably) sucks a fat cock.

And yes you've cited different O-coordinators but they've all required Brady to do the same thing - to be more exact, nothing fancy, no improv, etc. He won't scramble like Vick (even pre knee injury), he won't change the entire offense at the line like Manning, hell he won't even gun sling like Favre.

Which is why he has more rings combined than those 3.

[thejuggernaut]

Marino was twice the QB Montana was

Fixed.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

What's Brett Favre up to ?

Is he gonna fake another retirement so he can skip training camp ?

You know, cuz he's so down to earth.

Who gives a shit? If he decides to play again next season I think he has earned the right to skip training camp. At his age, the Vikings should consider themselves lucky to have him under any circumstances. LMAO at all the people who get their panties in a bunch because he doesn't do training camp anymore. If you were that good at what you do and still doing it long after the time that most people in your field of work retire, you too would be allowed to play by your own rules.

Perhaps if he'd gotten to camp before the middle of August, he'd have developed a rapport with his guys. Instead, he spent another playoff watching someone else win because he made a dumb throw.

Even though he didn't join the team till the middle of August, he still developed a rapport with his guys. He spent another playoff watching someone else win because Peterson, Harvin, and Berrian couldn't hold on to the ball.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

Brady's got good numbers every year and he's consistent. 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb because I guess it was the perfect storm. He had some really good receivers around him for the first time and it just happened. But obviously '08 was a lost year and then this year, back to the usual. 2007 was an exception... it was a "Manning in his prime" type of year.

And I call him a system QB because you plug anybody else in and look what happens. Matt Cassel, he who hadn't taken a snap since what, high school, led them to an 11 win year. Goes to KC where he (predictably) sucks a fat cock.

And yes you've cited different O-coordinators but they've all required Brady to do the same thing - to be more exact, nothing fancy, no improv, etc. He won't scramble like Vick (even pre knee injury), he won't change the entire offense at the line like Manning, hell he won't even gun sling like Favre.

Which is why he has more rings combined than those 3.

Bob Griese has more rings than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon and Dan Fouts all combined. What's your point? They don't give rings to the best individual players, they give rings to the players who are on the roster of the best team. If you find yourself behind the wheel of a Corvette, and you win a drag race against some guy driving a Hyundai Accent... does that automatically make you the better driver?

[thejuggernaut]

Who gives a shit? If he decides to play again next season I think he has earned the right to skip training camp. At his age, the Vikings should consider themselves lucky to have him under any circumstances. LMAO at all the people who get their panties in a bunch because he doesn't do training camp anymore. If you were that good at what you do and still doing it long after the time that most people in your field of work retire, you too would be allowed to play by your own rules.

Perhaps if he'd gotten to camp before the middle of August, he'd have developed a rapport with his guys. Instead, he spent another playoff watching someone else win because he made a dumb throw.

Even though he didn't join the team till the middle of August, he still developed a rapport with his guys. He spent another playoff watching someone else win because Peterson, Harvin, and Berrian couldn't hold on to the ball.

No, he didn't.

And I see you've chosen to eliminate "the interception" from your mind.

[thejuggernaut]

Brady's got good numbers every year and he's consistent. 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb because I guess it was the perfect storm. He had some really good receivers around him for the first time and it just happened. But obviously '08 was a lost year and then this year, back to the usual. 2007 was an exception... it was a "Manning in his prime" type of year.

And I call him a system QB because you plug anybody else in and look what happens. Matt Cassel, he who hadn't taken a snap since what, high school, led them to an 11 win year. Goes to KC where he (predictably) sucks a fat cock.

And yes you've cited different O-coordinators but they've all required Brady to do the same thing - to be more exact, nothing fancy, no improv, etc. He won't scramble like Vick (even pre knee injury), he won't change the entire offense at the line like Manning, hell he won't even gun sling like Favre.

Which is why he has more rings combined than those 3.

Bob Griese has more rings than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon and Dan Fouts all combined. What's your point? They don't give rings to the best individual players, they give rings to the players who are on the roster of the best team. If you find yourself behind the wheel of a Corvette, and you win a drag race against some guy driving a Hyundai Accent... does that automatically make you the better driver?

We've all heard all of your arguments before, ad nauseum. And Favre's season ended EXACTLY the way we said it would - with him fucking it up with stupid throw resulting in a pic.

[thejuggernaut]

If you find yourself behind the wheel of a Corvette.......

Of all the cars you could have named, it's interesting you chose that one.

[Crazy Levi]

If you find yourself behind the wheel of a Corvette.......

Of all the cars you could have named, it's interesting you chose that one.

I don't think P13 is capable of making an argument as coherent as that, but you do have a point.

[SkyDog112046]

Nice excuses for the pretty boy media darling, but the fact remains that he is a merely a beneficiary of Belichik's system. Put Tommy Boy and Peyton both in Cleveland, let them each start 8 games, and who do you think does better? If you say Brady you seriously need your head examined.

Hey shit-for-brains. You do realize that Cleveland's Head Coach was Brady's Offensive Coordinator, right? I'm gonna go ahead and say Brady would win more games.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

No, he didn't.

And I see you've chosen to eliminate "the interception" from your mind.

The interception didn't cost the Vikings the game, it cost them a chance to attempt a 56 yard FG. Do you even know what percentage of 56 yard FG attempts are successful? The odds of completing that pass were far greater than the odds of making a 56 yard FG.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

Nice excuses for the pretty boy media darling, but the fact remains that he is a merely a beneficiary of Belichik's system. Put Tommy Boy and Peyton both in Cleveland, let them each start 8 games, and who do you think does better? If you say Brady you seriously need your head examined.

Hey shit-for-brains. You do realize that Cleveland's Head Coach was Brady's Offensive Coordinator, right? I'm gonna go ahead and say Brady would win more games.

That's hilarious!!!

[SkyDog112046]

Brady's got good numbers every year and he's consistent. 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb because I guess it was the perfect storm. He had some really good receivers around him for the first time and it just happened. But obviously '08 was a lost year and then this year, back to the usual. 2007 was an exception... it was a "Manning in his prime" type of year.

And I call him a system QB because you plug anybody else in and look what happens. Matt Cassel, he who hadn't taken a snap since what, high school, led them to an 11 win year. Goes to KC where he (predictably) sucks a fat cock.

And yes you've cited different O-coordinators but they've all required Brady to do the same thing - to be more exact, nothing fancy, no improv, etc. He won't scramble like Vick (even pre knee injury), he won't change the entire offense at the line like Manning, hell he won't even gun sling like Favre.

In 2007 he finally had weapons and he used them. In 2008 he missed almost the entire season except 7-8 minutes. In 2009 he was coming back from a bad injury and it was mid-season before he got into form and then at the end of the season he had rib and hand injuries. He hasn't had a full healthy season since '07.

You mustn't watch many Patriots games. Brady frequently changes the offense at the line when it is called for, and routinely changes the play to another play from the same set. Not gunslinging like Favre is a good thing - it's why he has 3 rings.

[SkyDog112046]

By Bill Polian's own admission Brady is the better QB. Polian said that the Colts don't try to go 16-0 because the playoffs are more important than the regular season and the regular season only serves to get a team into the playoffs. And that you judge a team and player by what they do in the post season. I agree with him, and it's one of the few times I do agree with him.

And according to his logic, Brady is 14-4 when it counts while Manning is 9-9, and Brady has 4 conference championships and 3 rings to Manning's 2 and 1. By that logic there isn't even an argument to be made. A systems guy or journeyman QB can get his team to the SB and win one once in a while. A systems guy will not get to the SB 4 times in 8 years and win 3 rings.

[thejuggernaut]

No, he didn't.

And I see you've chosen to eliminate "the interception" from your mind.

The interception didn't cost the Vikings the game, it cost them a chance to attempt a 56 yard FG. Do you even know what percentage of 56 yard FG attempts are successful? The odds of completing that pass were far greater than the odds of making a 56 yard FG.

He was 2 for 2 from 50+ yards in 2009. A career long of 55 outside.

Those are far better odds than Favre making an over the middle throw across his body as evidenced by...........Favre's well deserved reputation as a moron.

Berrian was open in the flat, as well.

[Tymaster]

Winning the SB is the ultimate measuring stick for QB's, but any of us that have watched the game for decades can make a list of QB's that never made it to a Super Bowl that are better than some of the QB's that won.
I'd take this list: Danny White, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Neil Lomax
Over this list: Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or even Doug Williams.
Just sayin......
It's a TEAM game, but the QB gets all the credit and most of the blame.....

[thejuggernaut]

Winning the SB is the ultimate measuring stick for QB's, but any of us that have watched the game for decades can make a list of QB's that never made it to a Super Bowl that are better than some of the QB's that won.
I'd take this list: Danny White, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Neil Lomax
Over this list: Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or even Doug Williams.
Just sayin......
It's a TEAM game, but the QB gets all the credit and most of the blame.....

And the QB most certainly does deserve the blame when he does stupid shit, like throwing off his back foot, across his body, into the middle of the field, when he had a play on the sideline where the WORST possible outcome was the defender laying a hit and breaking it up.

[Tymaster]

Winning the SB is the ultimate measuring stick for QB's, but any of us that have watched the game for decades can make a list of QB's that never made it to a Super Bowl that are better than some of the QB's that won.
I'd take this list: Danny White, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Neil Lomax
Over this list: Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or even Doug Williams.
Just sayin......
It's a TEAM game, but the QB gets all the credit and most of the blame.....

And the QB most certainly does deserve the blame when he does stupid shit, like throwing off his back foot, across his body, into the middle of the field, when he had a play on the sideline where the WORST possible outcome was the defender laying a hit and breaking it up.

Totally agree. Just saying that because a wins the SB, much less makes it there once or twice, doesn't make any better than a QB that was great but was always stuck on a subpar team.

[SkyDog112046]

Winning the SB is the ultimate measuring stick for QB's, but any of us that have watched the game for decades can make a list of QB's that never made it to a Super Bowl that are better than some of the QB's that won.
I'd take this list: Danny White, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Neil Lomax
Over this list: Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or even Doug Williams.
Just sayin......
It's a TEAM game, but the QB gets all the credit and most of the blame.....

Hostetler, Johnson and Williams all had a couple of very good seasons, they just didn't sustain it. But yeah, Dilfer is a stiff.

But a real measuring stick is multiple championships. A QB doesn't win 3 or more Superbowls unless they are very good. That list is Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, and Brady. And the guys with 2 are Starr, Staubach, Griese, Elway, and Roethlisberger. I don't see how anyone can call any one of those QBs listed a systems guy. In order to win multiple SBs those guys had to make a lot of big plays just to get there, never mind win. Systems guys and average QBs can't do it.

[Tymaster]

Winning the SB is the ultimate measuring stick for QB's, but any of us that have watched the game for decades can make a list of QB's that never made it to a Super Bowl that are better than some of the QB's that won.
I'd take this list: Danny White, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, Neil Lomax
Over this list: Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or even Doug Williams.
Just sayin......
It's a TEAM game, but the QB gets all the credit and most of the blame.....

Hostetler, Johnson and Williams all had a couple of very good seasons, they just didn't sustain it. But yeah, Dilfer is a stiff.

But a real measuring stick is multiple championships. A QB doesn't win 3 or more Superbowls unless they are very good. That list is Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, and Brady. And the guys with 2 are Starr, Staubach, Griese, Elway, and Roethlisberger. I don't see how anyone can call any one of those QBs listed a systems guy. In order to win multiple SBs those guys had to make a lot of big plays just to get there, never mind win. Systems guys and average QBs can't do it.

Totally agree. Just saying that history has a way of forgetting QB's that never make it to the "big game" and so does the Hall of Fame. And that's a bummer.

[Monsters_of_Rock]

No, he didn't.

And I see you've chosen to eliminate "the interception" from your mind.

The interception didn't cost the Vikings the game, it cost them a chance to attempt a 56 yard FG. Do you even know what percentage of 56 yard FG attempts are successful? The odds of completing that pass were far greater than the odds of making a 56 yard FG.

He was 2 for 2 from 50+ yards in 2009. A career long of 55 outside.

Those are far better odds than Favre making an over the middle throw across his body as evidenced by...........Favre's well deserved reputation as a moron.

Berrian was open in the flat, as well.

Although Longwell nailed a couple of 52 yarders in 2009, that distance is about the limit for what they will even let him attempt. I don't think you realize how much of a longshot a 56 yard attempt is. Most 50+ yard FGs by Longwell or anybody else are in the 51 to 53 range, and most of them have just barely enough leg to clear the crossbar. Pushing them back just a few more yards makes it a longshot, which explains why you rarely see anybody even attempt a FG from as many as 56 yards out. You see a lot of 50 yard attempts, but very few from 56. There's a reason for that.

And Berrian was not open. He was covered as well as everybody else in purple on that play. The Saints defended that play perfectly, and if you understood the game of football you would realize that.

[Tymaster]

I can keep adding. Heck, I forgot Dan Fouts! Cunningham.
Back up's don't count either, so throw Kosar and Flutie in there as well. I'd take any of those four over some of the winners I mentioned.

[thejuggernaut]

He was 2 for 2 from 50+ yards in 2009. A career long of 55 outside.

Those are far better odds than Favre making an over the middle throw across his body as evidenced by...........Favre's well deserved reputation as a moron.

Berrian was open in the flat, as well.

Although Longwell nailed a couple of 52 yarders in 2009, that distance is about the limit for what they will even let him attempt. I don't think you realize how much of a longshot a 56 yard attempt is. Most 50+ yard FGs by Longwell or anybody else are in the 51 to 53 range, and most of them have just barely enough leg to clear the crossbar. Pushing them back just a few more yards makes it a longshot, which explains why you rarely see anybody even attempt a FG from as many as 56 yards out. You see a lot of 50 yard attempts, but very few from 56. There's a reason for that.

And Berrian was not open. He was covered as well as everybody else in purple on that play. The Saints defended that play perfectly, and if you understood the game of football you would realize that.

I understand exactly what the odds are, and they are much better than a QB throwing off his back foot, across his body, into the middle of the field. Everybody knows this, except Favre and yourself.

Ryan Longwell was 6 for 6 over 50 yards in 2008, and 2-2 in 2009. 8 straight kicks made of over 50 yards. Much better odds than the moron who constantly makes throws to the other team.

Berrian was open. The DB was playing the deep ball. There is absolutely no chance in hell, if Favre rifles it to the sideline, that db has any chance of making a play on the ball.

Again, the BEST he can hope for is to hit the receiver and knock it loose because any other play is pass interference. Maybe he throws it too hard and Berrian doesn't make the catch. Who cares, it's out of bounds.

The one thing that seems to have been overlooked is the time.

If Favre goes sideline, even if incomplete, there's about 14 seconds left. You attempt the field goal and, even if you miss, there's about 8-9 seconds left. Time for one hail mary. And since Brees doesn't have an Elwayesque arm, you send your guys WAY back.

That's the time of the game when he should have been looking sideline. Or, at the very least, tuck it and run, slide, get up and call a timeout with only a couple of seconds left then kick it.

The reality is, you're a middle aged slob who's never set foot on a football field, or coached the game or anything of the sort. You're a a ballwashing, apologist, EA Sports football fan.