Tim Tebow's run in Denver

[The Cusack]

I'm watching Monday Night Countdown right now and listening to Tom Jackson (the best NFL analyst on TV right now) say that John Elway and John Fox basically gave in to the fans and put Tebow out there despite their belief that he can't play.

Has he played well? Against Miami, he had a great 4th quarter against a bad team but it was his first start so how much time has he had with the first team? The one week, with no pre-season to speak of? The next week he faces an elite team in the form of the Detroit Lions and the whole team looks bad including Tebow himself and now even at 1-1 as a starter there's rumors that Tebow is going to be benched soon? 1-1 after the team traded their best receiver, Brandon Lloyd, mind you.

Overall I think Tebow can be great but the situation in Denver isn't good for him or any QB right now. Orton (the league's new Steve DeBerg/Chris Chandler and will play for 6-7 before he's done) doesn't outright suck but in Denver he does. I realize that the QB takes a lot of credit when they win and a lot of blame when they lose but stability at the QB position is crucial to developing a young QB and to developing an offense.

So I ask, what sense does it make, when you've made an investment a young QB like Tebow, why not take the rest of the season to give him the experience instead of shuffling some journeymen in and out of the line up and disrupting the offense's development as well as Tebow's?

Oh and why has Elway not been more pro-active in either getting a QB coach or working with them himself? I know he's their GM but as a former QB himself he should understand how important the QB play is.

[ParaDime77]

Tebow is Josh McDaniel's draft pick/project, it's clear that Elway and Fox want nothing to do with him and have given Tebow enough rope to hang himself with and tell the Denver fan base "told ya so!"

[SkyDog112046]

Go check out some of the media reports. Tebow was so bad on Sunday that the Lions felt bad for Denver. Tebow has no business being an NFL QB. He doesn't have the arm to make the required throws. No amount of time is going to fix his issues.

[The Cusack]

Go check out some of the media reports. Tebow was so bad on Sunday that the Lions felt bad for Denver. Tebow has no business being an NFL QB. He doesn't have the arm to make the required throws. No amount of time is going to fix his issues.

Are you sure they didn't just feel badly about making fun of Tebow during the game with their "Tebowing"?

The point about him being McDaniel's pick is a good one but considering that he was successful in his limited amount of play last year, doesn't that mean anything or is he just resigned to playing in certain packages the way Joe Webb is in Minnesota right now?

Aside from that, what are Denver's options this season? Brady Quinn? Kyle Orton again? Bring in Jeff Garcia, Duante Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell or Brett Favre? Honestly I think they might as well stick it out with Tim Tebow and find out what they have in the long run and if things are looking bleak maybe have Brady Quinn ready to play the last few games of the season.

[SkyDog112046]

The point about him being McDaniel's pick is a good one but considering that he was successful in his limited amount of play last year, doesn't that mean anything or is he just resigned to playing in certain packages the way Joe Webb is in Minnesota right now?

Aside from that, what are Denver's options this season? Brady Quinn? Kyle Orton again? Bring in Jeff Garcia, Duante Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell or Brett Favre? Honestly I think they might as well stick it out with Tim Tebow and find out what they have in the long run and if things are looking bleak maybe have Brady Quinn ready to play the last few games of the season.

As already mentioned the organization doesn't want Tebow but the fans are rabid for him so they are giving him some starts to show that he doesn't have what it takes. Back in the 70's he would have been converted to half-back, but you don't make the moves to get a QB like Denver did to convert someone. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut him after the season.

2012 is a lost year for Denver. No veteran QB is going to make a difference at this point. What they ought to do is start Quinn after Tebow is done. Quinn has what it takes to be a serviceable backup. He had a great teacher in college where he ran a pro-style offense and he's never really been given chance in the NFL. He's not the long-term answer, but neither are Orton or Tebow. McDaniels really screwed over that organization by trading Cutler.


Quinn's Scouting Report - The Pros:
Demonstrates a strong arm that allows him to deliver the long ball with touch and accuracy … Quick in his pass set up and is generally in position to make all of his throws … Has very good command in the huddle and makes good decisions with the ball, rarely forcing the action in attempts to create something out of nothing … Has the ability to put the ball where the receiver can catch it and shows good balance throwing on the move … Good student of the game, showing the field vision and intelligence to recognize coverages on his pre-snap scan of the field and in his pass drop … Shows decent foot quickness in his set-up, keeping his feet under him while maintaining balance … Can reach his throwing point with a normal stride and has the body control and agility needed to drive back from center quickly … Has keen awareness and a good grasp of the offensive system … Does a nice job scanning the field and throws with good timing and touch … Carries the ball medium/high and can flick it out either with a high three-quarter delivery or over the head … Has a compact release to unload the ball quickly and good mechanics when launching the ball long … Puts very good zip on all of his throws, especially in the intermediate area or when going long … Can throw in the seam with consistency and you now see an accurate long ball and a lively short pass … In the short passing game, Quinn puts the ball where the receiver can catch it, throwing a catchable ball with zip or touch and does a nice job of keeping the receiver in the route … Has a high enough release that the ball comes off his fingers with good zip and accuracy … Has the arm strength to fire the ball into tight areas … Shows good anticipation and timing with the awareness, field smarts and athletic agility to slide or step up in the pocket to buy time … Has developed a nice feel and awareness to anticipate when the receivers are coming out of their cuts … Makes good adjustments at the line of scrimmage … Does a good job of scanning down field and shows enough pocket movement awareness to find the lanes when flushed out … Does a good job of scanning down field and shows enough pocket movement awareness to find the lanes when flushed out … Has the athletic ability to slide or step up to buy time and does a good job of maintaining focus down field, even under heavy pressure … Demonstrates very good touch and accuracy on slants, crossers and bubble screens … Has the long ball arm strength to give the receivers space to adjust and get under his throws without having to break stride … Never rattled under heavy pressure and shows the poise to step up in the pocket and take a hit rather than throw the ball into tight areas … His ability to read coverages allows him to consistently check off and locate his secondary targets … Gets good movement scrambling out of the pocket and is capable of throwing on the move … Good program passer who stays within the framework of the game plan … His quick delivery is seen by the way he immediately has the ball chest high and ready to throw … His pocket presence allows him to buy time for his receivers to get open … Very efficient firing the ball out quickly on slants and timing routes.

The knocks on Quinn:
Does not have that overpowering arm to lead the receivers going deep, but can put good touch on those throws (showed good improvement with his trajectory, but when going long on the move, he did make his receivers adjust a bit). Has better timing when taking a three-step drop, but may hold the ball a little too long, resulting in sacks when he takes a longer (five-step) drop. Not the type who can consistently make plays with his feet.

Quinn is Johnny Unitas when compared to Tebow. Every single one of Quinn's flaws is fixable with coaching. I don't think he'll ever be elite at this point but at the very least he's a serviceable backup who can manage games and he could fill a role like Dilfer did. Tebow will never be a winning NFL QB.

[MickeyG]

I'm still surprised how American sports uses amateur organizations (colleges) to produce their players for them. Once these guys have hit their early 20's they've already lost a lot of their development time and learned bad habits. Outside of American sports most other team sports want kids as young as 11 in their youth teams so they can train them themselves.

[johnk5150]

I'm still surprised how American sports uses amateur organizations (colleges) to produce their players for them. Once these guys have hit their early 20's they've already lost a lot of their development time and learned bad habits. Outside of American sports most other team sports want kids as young as 11 in their youth teams so they can train them themselves.

The college athletic system is corrupt as shit.

[Machado]

I'm still surprised how American sports uses amateur organizations (colleges) to produce their players for them. Once these guys have hit their early 20's they've already lost a lot of their development time and learned bad habits. Outside of American sports most other team sports want kids as young as 11 in their youth teams so they can train them themselves.

The college athletic system is corrupt as shit.

I concur.
Greed controls just about everything.
The entire system is based on money and has little or nothing to do with
an athlete becoming a fine student.

[ParaDime77]

The Bronco's will evetually start Quinn at QB to showcase him for other teams for next season, his contract is up with Denver at the end of this season.

[Machado]

The Bronco's will evetually start Quinn at QB to showcase him for other teams for next season, his contract is up with Denver at the end of this season.

The fucking media is a joke.

Only last week Tebow was being praised for finding a way to win the game.
Only the media ignored the fact that he was horrible for about 95% of the game.
Then this past Sunday he is terrible again, shows hardly anything, but his team only scored 10, while the opponent scored 45, so I guess there was no chance he would have willed his team to win for a 2nd consecutive week.

The common denominator is that Tebow has played horribly for
2 weeks now.

[Garbageman]

I'm a huge Denver fan... and Tebow should be sacrificed with his heart ripped out Mayan style on an altar over the 50 yard line at Mile High.

McDaniels was out of his mind to trade up for Tebow when he probably would have sat there for a while. If he was drafted in the second round or later, you could take some time working on him without it seeming like a waste or a huge risk. A first round QB on a losing team has to go out there and take the lumps.

As for the miracle comeback, I still say Miami gave up and allowed Denver to come back just to ensure that if it came down to a tiebreaker at draft time, the horrible Broncos wouldn't be able to draft ahead of the horrible Dolphins. In any case, Tebow was so awful for 56 minutes they allowed one of the worst two teams in the league to be ahead of them by 15 points with 5 minutes to play.

[The Cusack]

The common denominator is that Tebow has played horribly for 2 weeks now.

Who HAS played well for Denver in the last two weeks? That's part of my question too. The team sucks and they traded their best WR right before starting Tim Tebow. The Broncos have looked almost as bad as last year's Carolina Panthers (with the same lack of will to win) and that common denominator is John Fox as the head coach. I think the problem in Denver is in the coaching more than the players.

Tebow has an unconventional skill set that made him a dominate college player and that it's not being taken advantage of the way that Cam Newton's skills are in Carolina. Granted, Newton is deadly accurate whereas Tebow isn't but Newton having great skill players around him help a lot too. I think Tebow is a Steve Young/Michael Vick sort of QB that's expected to play Drew Bledsoe, Dan Fouts or Bernie Kosar.

[The Cusack]

If Fox and Elway are simply going to get a new QB next year though, they should just play Quinn because he's closer to what Fox wants at QB anyway.

[Garbageman]

If Fox and Elway are simply going to get a new QB next year though, they should just play Quinn because he's closer to what Fox wants at QB anyway.

Remember Quinn isn't under contract for next year (nor is Orton) while Tebow is. Even if they start him and he does OK, he's not someone who's worth franchising and would probably leave anyhow.

And in addition to Tebow being inaccurate (making comparing him to Newton impossible), he has other problems with holding the ball too long and not going over receiver progressions.

[Machado]

If Fox and Elway are simply going to get a new QB next year though, they should just play Quinn because he's closer to what Fox wants at QB anyway.

Remember Quinn isn't under contract for next year (nor is Orton) while Tebow is. Even if they start him and he does OK, he's not someone who's worth franchising and would probably leave anyhow.

And in addition to Tebow being inaccurate (making comparing him to Newton impossible), he has other problems with holding the ball too long and not going over receiver progressions.

The only people who believe Tebow is a legit NFL QB are Tebow and his fans.
Every NFL scout and NFL expert on t.v. has talked in length about Tebow's flaws as a QB.
The list is quite long and won't be repaired in 1 season.

[SkyDog112046]

I think Tebow is a Steve Young/Michael Vick sort of QB that's expected to play Drew Bledsoe, Dan Fouts or Bernie Kosar.

Tebow is nothing like Young or Vick, especially Young. Those guys have cannons for arms, can make all the throws, and know how to read a defense and make a quick decision. Young was one of the most accurate passers with a high QB Rating who ran to get yardage when the play wasn't there. Tebow can't read defenses, doesn't know how to place a pass so his receiver can get it, and isn't accurate more than 8-10 yards down field - the play is never there so he runs around. The only thing Tebow has in common with Vick is that he is going to take a pounding when he doesn't play like a traditional QB. There is no type of offense that will suit Tebow's style - he can't even play in the arena league because he can't make the throws.

[SkyDog112046]

If Fox and Elway are simply going to get a new QB next year though, they should just play Quinn because he's closer to what Fox wants at QB anyway.

Remember Quinn isn't under contract for next year (nor is Orton) while Tebow is. Even if they start him and he does OK, he's not someone who's worth franchising and would probably leave anyhow.

And in addition to Tebow being inaccurate (making comparing him to Newton impossible), he has other problems with holding the ball too long and not going over receiver progressions.

Denver won't have to franchise Quinn if they want to bring him back. They can pay him back-up money and put in a bunch of incentives. Quinn isn't a current starter, and as of now he hasn't proven anything. Even if they start Quinn the rest of the way and he plays well they still won't have to pay him more than $3-4M a year.

[ParaDime77]

I think there will be 3 completely different QB's in Denver next season. Not to mention the team needs some quality WR's BIG TIME.

[Lonsome Crow]

Tebow has an unconventional skill set that made him a dominate college player and that it's not being taken advantage of the way that Cam Newton's skills are in Carolina. Granted, Newton is deadly accurate whereas Tebow isn't but Newton having great skill players around him help a lot too. I think Tebow is a Steve Young/Michael Vick sort of QB that's expected to play Drew Bledsoe, Dan Fouts or Bernie Kosar.
[/b]

I'm sorry, but this had me LOLing. You're basically saying that Cam can play QB in the NFL and Tebow can't. An inaccurate QB = worthless piece of shit in today's NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if Tebow tosses more pick-6s than TDs let alone just regular INTs.

Tebow can be a pretty good fullback or tight end, but the idea that he's going to develop into some sort of franchise savior is silly. At best he turns into a decent QB. He could be a good game manager like Trent Dilfer, but a Super Bowl MVP like Young, Manning or Brees? GTFO.

And whatever his abilities, John Fox isn't the coach you want developing your QB.

[The Cusack]

And whatever his abilities, John Fox isn't the coach you want developing your QB.

Good points everyone. I definitely wanted to make an issue of John Fox being in charge of developing Tebow though.

As for Quinn's contract status, if they're not interested or able to develop Tebow or win with Orton, they should find out what they have in Quinn and see if they can win some games with him. Especially if Fox's job next year is tied to his ability to turn the team around the rest of this season.

All in all, the Broncos have NO fight in them at any position.

[Garbageman]

Denver won't have to franchise Quinn if they want to bring him back. They can pay him back-up money and put in a bunch of incentives. Quinn isn't a current starter, and as of now he hasn't proven anything. Even if they start Quinn the rest of the way and he plays well they still won't have to pay him more than $3-4M a year.

I think there are going to be too many teams that want a QB who's been in the league 5+ years, even if it's just to run the practice squad, to think Quinn will just fall in line and stay in Denver. Especially if a decent contender needs a new backup.

[Lonsome Crow]

Quinn's done in the NFL.

He couldn't get the starting gig in Cleveland. The guy he lost to, Derek Anderson, is the qb on the practice squad for the Panthers.

[El Metalico]

It's all about the TEBOWING!!!

[Garbageman]

http://deadspin.com/5855575/how-contemp ... revolution

How Contempt For Tim Tebow Caused An ESPN.com Commenter Revolution

The ESPN.com comment section is a den of iniquity and misspelling, and for the world's largest sports site, it's curiously inessential. The open registration means the discourse tends toward lowest common denominator, and it's too big to engender much sense of community. But once in a long while the disparate masses are united by a polarizing figure. This week, one Mr. Tim Tebow has worked that miracle.

On Sunday night, ESPN.com posted a Bill Williamson column calling for the Broncos to get their post-Tebow plans in order. The early comments were unremarkable: the usual "Tebow sucks" and "John Fox sucks" camps doing their thing. But as Halloween dawned, the shapeless mass of discontent had taken form. Completely organically, Tebow hate made order out of chaos.

"X > Tebow" is the meme, with X being a series of increasingly negative and absurd things. It began with QuanB8's comment, "Ryan Leaf > Tebow." It moved to to other crappy quarterbacks—JaMarcus Russell, David Carr, Akili Smith—but soon became something else entirely. A few examples:

Windows Vista > Tebow

Being groped by Julian Edelman > Tebow

Still saying 'Whaaaz uuuppp' > Tebow

Eating undercooked chicken and dealing with its unsavory aftereffects this morning > Tebow

Yelling the N word at a DMX concert > Tebow

Wanting to dream about Cheers Kirstie Alley and dreaming about Fat Actress Kirstie Alley instead > Tebow

Rebooting the Back To The Future franchise with the plot centered around getting Tebow's mom to have an abortion > Tebow

"X > Tebow" ranges from the self-referential to the nonsensical to the patently offensive, and has spread to other comment sections. It is a monster that cannot be contained by ESPN.com moderators, despite their best efforts. As the craze hit full swing on Monday, ESPN was deleting comments almost as quickly as they appeared. That was a mistake. In the face of oppression, the commenters redoubled their efforts. I think this is an important point: the Worldwide Leader in Sports was overwhelmed by the sheer number of people who wanted to make fun of Tim Tebow.

On day two, ESPN tried a different strategy: only deleting comments that were anti-religious or otherwise objectionable under their terms of service. We've heard from commenters who have found their contributions gone, their accounts suspended. But even that's fallen by the wayside, as any number of anti-Christian or generally obscene comments can be found today. The moderators abandoned the battlefield. The commenters won.

It's a momentous day for the denizens of ESPN.com, having created their first legitimate meme (Craggs likens it to seeing a dog walk on two legs). They've been able to act cohesively, showcase their creativity, and rage against the machine a bit at the same time. That is the true miracle of Tim Tebow.

[Tenacious_Dio]

The guy he lost to, Derek Anderson, is the qb on the practice squad for the Panthers.

Actually, Anderson is the #2. Jimmy Clausen is the practice squad qb.

[Lonsome Crow]

The guy he lost to, Derek Anderson, is the qb on the practice squad for the Panthers.

Actually, Anderson is the #2. Jimmy Clausen is the practice squad qb.

My bad.

Still if you lose to a guy who can't even get himself a starting gig, you're done.

That being said, I'd rather have Derek Anderson starting for my Redskins than the two asshats they have now...

[Calexxia]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only Broncos fan who sees behind all the smoke and mirrors of Timmy Tebag. He's a hype, nothing more, and some of us are WELL over it.

[Tymaster]

The guy he lost to, Derek Anderson, is the qb on the practice squad for the Panthers.

Actually, Anderson is the #2. Jimmy Clausen is the practice squad qb.

My bad.

Still if you lose to a guy who can't even get himself a starting gig, you're done.

That being said, I'd rather have Derek Anderson starting for my Redskins than the two asshats they have now...

Actually, Brady Quinn took the starting job from Derek Anderson (one season removed from a 10-6 season and Pro Bowl season) in 2008 but Anderson and Quinn both finished the season on IR and Bruce Gradkowski was brought in to close out December. Romeo Crennel named Quinn the starter for 2009 two days before he was fired. Mangini named Anderson the starter for 2009 after training camp reversing his predecessors decision. Eight games into the 2009 season, Anderson was benched. Again, Brady finished the season on IR after getting injured in December of 2009. So, the truth is Brady Quinn took Anderson's job twice.

[SkyDog112046]

Tebow will start against Oakland and probably against KC, but if he performs like he did last week in Detroit then I would think Quinn would go the next week at home versus NYJ.

[Machado]

Tebow will start against Oakland and probably against KC, but if he performs like he did last week in Detroit then I would think Quinn would go the next week at home versus NYJ.

Elway and Fox are giving the fans what they asked for
A heavy dose of Tebow as the starting QB.

Elway and Fox are laughing behind the scenes at just how poorly Tebow
has played to date.
If Tebow continues to play very poorly in the coming weeks, Elway and Fox can replace the starter and have every right to tell the fans, "I told you so".