Walter Payton - The greatest of all time

[Gritt]

Here are a few of my arguments against Barry. If it is third and inches with the game on the line who do you go to? Payton, Emmitt, or Barry? My answer isn't Barry. He was just as likely to lose a yard than to explode for a 60 yard run. He got tackled for loss more than any other all time great running back.

Also, there were many big games where Barry came up empty. Sure you can blame that on his line, his QB, etc. but he still didn't deliver.

Barry Sanders was a phenom. He was probably the most dangerous running back ever in terms of being able to break the big one. I equate him to a baseball player who has 500 home runs but also struck out half the time.

Payton and Smith were more consistent.

[LouDoo]

What bothers me the most about the subject is that a player has to be penalized for playing on a great team. Why?

Holy shit. If you can't understand how playing for a great team with multiple offensive weapons gives you an advantage to someone who was a one man show, you're a retard.

Payton carried that team on his shoulders for years. Who else was a threat? James Scott? Golden Richards? LMAO. Payton had to do it when everyone on defense knew he was the only legit option.

[Redman77]

What bothers me the most about the subject is that a player has to be penalized for playing on a great team. Why?

Holy shit. If you can't understand how playing for a great team with multiple offensive weapons gives you an advantage to someone who was a one man show, you're a retard.

Payton carried that team on his shoulders for years. Who else was a threat? James Scott? Golden Richards? LMAO. Payton had to do it when everyone on defense knew he was the only legit option.

Bullshit, they had the Fridge.

[Machado]

What bothers me the most about the subject is that a player has to be penalized for playing on a great team. Why?

Holy shit. If you can't understand how playing for a great team with multiple offensive weapons gives you an advantage to someone who was a one man show, you're a retard.

Payton carried that team on his shoulders for years. Who else was a threat? James Scott? Golden Richards? LMAO. Payton had to do it when everyone on defense knew he was the only legit option.

You think to much of yourself. Answer me this, is Jerry Rice less of a player because he played on great teams? If Montana less of a player because he had Rice at the WR position?

It's a ridiculous argument.

Payton was a terrific RB. He once held the rushing record. Do not blame other RB's because they had better players blocking for them? And your point is what exactly?

The Bears eventually had McMahon, Gault and Payton. All of which amounted to 1 SB. Underachievers? Maybe so

[LouDoo]

Certainly Montana and Rice made each other better, and CERTAINLY having a better offensive line and other offensive weapons will help a running back. You are clinically stupid. Saying this doesn't take anything away from their accomplishments, they're just facts.

[LouDoo]

Also, let's face facts, the reason the mid 80's Bears teams were so good was because the defense was fucking stacked.

[Machado]

Also, let's face facts, the reason the mid 80's Bears teams were so good was because the defense was fucking stacked.

No shit Sherlock. 46 defense was born. I bet you can't name the player the defense was named after, LOL
Sorry, just being sarcastic(again)

You really are good and putting a team down because the team is full of great players. Is the object of the game to win or is it to win, but the win counts less if you team is full of great players?

MORON!

[LouDoo]

Don't you ever wonder why Emmitt Smith is rarely brought up in the discussion of the greatest RBs of all time?

Dude, you are flat out retarded. I never put down the Cowboys teams, I simply said that Emmitt had advantages that Payton didn't.

[Machado]

Don't you ever wonder why Emmitt Smith is rarely brought up in the discussion of the greatest RBs of all time?

Dude, you are flat out retarded. I never put down the Cowboys teams, I simply said that Emmitt had advantages that Payton didn't.

Guess what? I don't wonder. Like I said earlier and you clearly missed it, the question is subjective. Does it really matter what one person thinks when it comes to "the very best".
Unless the 2 players played in the exact same era, it is impossible to accurately say which player is the greatest of the bunch.

Emmitt does not have to be the greatest. But he has 3 rings. Which is why the games are played. To win. Not to be the best ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE


Anyway, Emmitt has 3 rings. That's all I care about. He also has the most rushing yards in the game. Quite an accomplishment, unless you are LouDoo, someone show wants to penalize Emmitt for being surrounded by Hall of Fame players.

[LouDoo]

Ahh... tucking tail and retreating to the "rings" argument. Typical of a Yankees and Cowboys fan. Rings don't have anything to do with individual greatness, just ask Dan Marino. And Jordan is the greaatest of all time, despite his rings. He was just better than everyone else.

[johnk5150]

Call me when any RB has 8 TD passes .

[Gritt]

Call me when any RB has 8 TD passes .

Let me answer that one.

Since when is it the running backs job to throw?
You're comparing burritos to mothballs. You're barking up the wrong tree.
FOOL.




now back to coherence

LT threw for seven and that is the only guy close to Payton.

What's funny is that Matardo has gotten so bent when I didn't even insult his boy. I just stated a preference for Payton. If I've got one game to win and my life depended on it, Emmitt is a top three running back pick for me. But he's only getting in if Payton and Jim Brown didn't exist.

[NeverSurrender]

So both Jim Brown and Barry Sanders both retired in their prime, but Barry is the quitter? Good logic.

Walter is the greatest ever, but Barry is right with him and was certainly the most original of the great backs.

And at Meathead being wrong again. As if anybody needed to know that useless info anyways.. true or not.

[Machado]

Ahh... tucking tail and retreating to the "rings" argument. Typical of a Yankees and Cowboys fan. Rings don't have anything to do with individual greatness, just ask Dan Marino. And Jordan is the greaatest of all time, despite his rings. He was just better than everyone else.

Screw Dan Marino. If I was in the playoffs and wanted to be eliminated, I guess I would have Marino be my starting QB.

Did you say Jordan was better than everyone else? HOLY SHIT! Why isn't what you wrote breaking news? You should be working for Fox News with these nuggets of information.

[UtahRatt]

The Greatest is all augmentative. Payton is one of the most respected. I have more of a spectrum with eras and such where I just say "one of the greatest of all time" then I start a list after that.

Dickerson, Campbell, Brown, Barry, Dorsett, Gale Sayers and a few others = All time greats.


Fuck Emmitt running through monster holes that great line opened up. Emmitt was selfish, only played for the money and records and openly said so. I'd take Dorsett over Emmitt any day of the week. Emmitt played in the softer eras so records don't mean shit. Let's see Emmitt get up from The Hammer's clothesline. Stats are missleading, records don't mean a lot unless they're put in perspective.
Ya!I played for almost 15 years and even took a trade to Arizona just to pad my stats = don't equal the greatest. With all that said, he deserves mad respect even tho he was on the right team at the right time.
Keep him in Arizona for 10 of those years then trade him to Dallas.



Players like Peyton, Barry, Brown and such could run on any team.
Teams didn't/couldn't just load the box when facing Dallas, they had to contend with their WR's and one of the best TE's in the game, Novacek who was also a great blocker to go with that line of cattle and what about the Moose? Daryl Johnston?

One of the best blocking TE, FB and OL's ever put together....Now look at those stats and see who gets some credit. Leon Lett could put up 1,000 yards behind that core.....If he didn't fumble.

[bane]

Nobody but Cowboy fans think Smith is better than Payton. His accomplishments are admirable, but I remember the talk when he was playing, "I wonder what Sanders could do behind that line?"
The only other guy that really belongs in the conversation with Payton is Jim Brown.

[Heenan Snuka]

Nobody but Cowboy fans think Smith is better than Payton. His accomplishments are admirable, but I remember the talk when he was playing, "I wonder what Sanders could do behind that line?"
The only other guy that really belongs in the conversation with Payton is Jim Brown.

good to see u back postin'

EvilPettingZoo and HORRORHOLIC also showed up today

[bane]

Nobody but Cowboy fans think Smith is better than Payton. His accomplishments are admirable, but I remember the talk when he was playing, "I wonder what Sanders could do behind that line?"
The only other guy that really belongs in the conversation with Payton is Jim Brown.

good to see u back postin'

EvilPettingZoo and HORRORHOLIC also showed up today

Thanks man. Been a while.

[UtahRatt]

Payton's refusal to ever run out of bounds was stuff that inspired me as a kid and how I played.

[Rainbow Bright]

Call me when any RB has 8 TD passes .

Jim Thorpe. And he played baseball. And did Track and Field. Nike incarnate.

[UtahRatt]

Call me when any RB has 8 TD passes .

Jim Thorpe. And he played baseball. And did Track and Field. Nike incarnate.

Since I haven't watched the old NFL clips in ages I had to pull some up to remember....I'm with ya.

Jim Thorpe was the Babe Ruth of his era, an unstoppable monster.....Since he played in such an old era, if people got to watch him today they'd think he was an alien ahead of his time. All I remember is the old highlights, a man amongst boys in ever aspect who could probably play any position. Easily one of the best ever. It's been ages but I'd like to watch a dedicated Thorpe special.

Olympic gold medals, track, baseball, football, basketball.....The list goes on, I think his other name was Clark Kent.


*wiki
In a poll of sports fans conducted by ABC Sports, Thorpe was voted the Greatest Athlete of the Twentieth Century out of 15 other athletes including Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Wayne Gretzky, Jack Nicklaus, and Michael Jordan.

[Woosh]

Smith had the benefit of one of the greatest offensive lines of all time. he also wasn't a team leader, I would nominate Moose before I nominated him.

Not to take anything away from the guy, but it's pretty silly to compare him to Barry Sanders. Now Sanders or Payton? That's a tough call. I'll go with Sweetness because I'm all about Chicago.


BTW, I need help remembering a certain game: Dallas/Miami and it was snowing like a motherfucker. probably 93 or 94. anyways can anyone point me in direction to an answer and possibly a tape?

[Gritt]

It was 93 on thanksgiving day.

[Woosh]

thx grittman, that's the one.

[Bludegeon]

I think Irvin was the leader of those Cowboys teams. Aikman led in his own way but, quietly at times.

Emmitt was a key part to that team. I don't know what Sanders would've done behind that line in Dallas. Detroit brought in a FB ala the way Dallas ran and it didn't help Barry.. Barry was the best at Improvising and making something out of nothing.

Emmitt, IMO, was the whole package. He was durable. He was in on 3rd downs more than most RB's, because he picked up blitzes, caught out of the backfield.
He wasn't supposed to last in the NFL. He was always too slow, short, no quickness. But, he had vision and heart. Miles of heart. lol.. (Thanks coach McGinty).. They had the perfect storm in Dallas, The O-line, WR, QB, RB, Stingy D'.. Just great.. Didn't last though..


IMO, Barry did in fact quit on his team. He signed a two year extension, only to last one year, wait until after the draft to tell the team. So, the team's thinking they have a RB in place, why make moves and draft a replacement. He did quit.. Plain and simple..

Detroit had some good seasons with Barry. They just didn't have all the pieces needed to finish out.. Sucks for Barry, sucks for the other players like Herman Moore, who didn't quit.. Stayed on ,.. But, in my oldness comes different views on things.. None of us know Sanders' situation in Detroit. Besides, well , it being Detroit.. lol..

It's all opinion.. Everyone's got a favorite..

And, all my favorites happen to have played for the Dallas Cowboys.

[Machado]

I think Irvin was the leader of those Cowboys teams. Aikman led in his own way but, quietly at times.

Emmitt was a key part to that team. I don't know what Sanders would've done behind that line in Dallas. Detroit brought in a FB ala the way Dallas ran and it didn't help Barry.. Barry was the best at Improvising and making something out of nothing.

Emmitt, IMO, was the whole package. He was durable. He was in on 3rd downs more than most RB's, because he picked up blitzes, caught out of the backfield.
He wasn't supposed to last in the NFL. He was always too slow, short, no quickness. But, he had vision and heart. Miles of heart. lol.. (Thanks coach McGinty).. They had the perfect storm in Dallas, The O-line, WR, QB, RB, Stingy D'.. Just great.. Didn't last though..


IMO, Barry did in fact quit on his team. He signed a two year extension, only to last one year, wait until after the draft to tell the team. So, the team's thinking they have a RB in place, why make moves and draft a replacement. He did quit.. Plain and simple..

Detroit had some good seasons with Barry. They just didn't have all the pieces needed to finish out.. Sucks for Barry, sucks for the other players like Herman Moore, who didn't quit.. Stayed on ,.. But, in my oldness comes different views on things.. None of us know Sanders' situation in Detroit. Besides, well , it being Detroit.. lol..

It's all opinion.. Everyone's got a favorite..

And, all my favorites happen to have played for the Dallas Cowboys.

Glad you mentioned how Barry did quit on the team. He quit on the fans that bought tickets and cheered him on all those years.
I remember the '91 playoff game where Barry pulled off an amazing run. He had Dallas players twisting and turning. Remember Tony Casillas? He lost all sight of Barry, only to see Barry eventually run past him with another amazing improvisation.

Bludegeon hit the nail on the head. Emmitt was a 3 down back. When you look at footage(courtesy of NFL Network) of those great Dallas teams on the 90's, Emmitt stays in the game and helps running, catching or blocking from the TB position.

[Gritt]

Barry retired and never looked back. Quitting on his team would be to retire and then unretire to play for another team.

[Crazy Levi]

Barry didn't "quit on his team," he retired. He was getting up there for a RB and made the decision that he'd had enough before he got too old, just like Jim Brown. He's still got all his marbles and you don't hear about him being broke so it seems like he made the right decision.

Let's fact it, dude played for the Lions and they weren't going anywhere. It was one horrible QB after another during Barry's tenure, with fluke playoff runs and no consistent signs improvement or sustained success. It's not like he robbed the fan base of a Super Bowl ring or anything.

He got out at the right time for him...not everybody needs to hang around a couple years longer than they should just to chase a record or get some extra cash.

[Bludegeon]

I may be remembering wrong. But, could've sworn even Lions fans and the FO were pissed at him at the "Timing" of his "retirement". It left them high and dry in regards to the draft.. Here they are thinking they have a RB set, then he retires. I could have it wrong. Probably do. I don't have a problem with any player retiring, whenever they want. Just try not to screw the other players you played with.. But, not sure if that happened. Just how I remembered it. I was just reading some articles online and , it looks like he split before the 98' training camp.. Still, training camp and no #1 rb. lol.. Gotta suck..

I am sure there were rumblings before he actually did and the Lion's FO should've still been looking for a replacement. Because of Barry's age.

I did always like the sportsmanship of Barry. Not making a big deal about about scoring tds.. He knew it was just part of the job.. I never celebrated after completing a job.. I just did it.. So, that was always cool of him. Never a "look at me now" player. One thing that really bothered me with Irvin, was that.. But, Butch Johnson and others were doing shit like that for years...

[Crazy Levi]

I may be remembering wrong. But, could've sworn even Lions fans and the FO were pissed at him at the "Timing" of his "retirement". It left them high and dry in regards to the draft.. Here they are thinking they have a RB set, then he retires. I could have it wrong. Probably do.

Maybe maybe not, I don't remember.

But it's not like the Lions were a "win now" team - they've always been a a "win never" team. Like you say they had an aging RB with plenty of mileage and regardless should have been planning for Sanders' successor to help them realize the immense potential of the Charlie Batch era.