Co - Writer Question

[NeilC]

Hi. I am asking because I have absolutely no idea about how music and songs are made. So my question is this. Say you are a musician, you have a certain sound you want to put out aLong with lyrics to a song usually a song with a point besides sex and partying( though those do make a potent music combination!). Do you really need help writing lyrics to a song or is it more of a collborative thing where sometimes the music and the lyrics get interwined that end up making the final cut of the song? Or do you not like to write alone/be alone? I am genuinely curious.

[keyofgee]

I play guitar and also write music and lyrics. I don’t have any hits, so I want to add that before the riff raff shows up here and wants to crap on what I post. lol. (sort of). I tend to write alone. It’s almost like making a sandwich. The meat of the sandwich is the lyrics and music. All the melodies and everything is the toppings.
Anyway, I think the music is as important as the lyrics even though the general listener with no music back ground will never hear or catch most of what you do on the instrument. Solo’s are just soloing. I noodle on my guitar every day. Sometimes something I am doing will “stand out” from the noise. Somehow it speaks to me and I record it. Then I will go over it over and over and see what happens. The song will develop as I play it over and over. More ideas will come to the top and I build on it. As far as lyrics, I am always paying attention to what I hear or not hear. Sometimes an idea will come to me and for some reason, the lyrics just come. Sometimes I have to sit and wait. But in my head, even if I am not around my guitar, like at work, I am massaging those ideas. If it feels “forced”, I abandon it. I use the song I wrote “winter eyes” as an example. My wife told me a couple of winters ago as I was heading outside to not forget to “winterize” our camper. I misheard and heard “winter eyes” and that spark “sparked”. I went back in and wrote most of that song in no time. In my head I would think about winter things and things associated with it. Winter, spring, summer and fall. Snow melts. Summer smiles, leaves fall, etc. I take none of my writing lightly. I could carless what anyone else thinks but to me its personal and has to be right.
Then on the other side of fence, we have other types of writers in our group. We have one that will just play a general flaccid chord progression, like G.D and A. make up a generic title and then just throw words out without no digression. It works too. It doesn’t work for me, but I am not him.
As far as song doctors, or outside writers. I can only use the examples I know of. Within recent years though we always recorded in Nashville, we started using some bigger named producers on our projects. In Nashville, at a certain level everyone has to get their fingers in the pie. If you bring lyrics and music like we do already written, the song has to go thru the producer’s song doctor. They are helpful and will look at your song from the outside. Make lyric suggestions, like “cast a wider net”. Don’t be too narrow, try to appeal to more than just one group. “this word isn’t working and there is a better word”. Etc. They also help structure a song too. Move the bridge here. Don’t over play in this area. Your song should be changing gears as it moves along. For example, “stairway to Heaven” starts off in a slow gear and as the song progresses, it “shifts gears” to the next speed and so on until the solo opens up and you are now pedal to the floor hauling a**, then the song downshifts and slows down back to the end. It was a musically journey. The song doctor’s get a credit in writing too. It’s not as much as the over all writer but it is a part of it.
Also as I have found in Nashville, no matter how good or steady your meter is, there will be session players on your recording. It is an unwritten, written law. Merle Haggard supposedly tired of having Nashville provided session players, recorded “I think I’ll just stay here and drink” with his band.
We are on the new stuff we recorded but there are session players on it too. It’s just the way it is. We don’t have Merle’s clout! We are still in the middle of recording so I will keep you posted if you are interested.

[VinnieVincentsVag]

I play guitar and also write music and lyrics. I don’t have any hits, so I want to add that before the riff raff shows up here and wants to crap on what I post. lol. (sort of). I tend to write alone. It’s almost like making a sandwich. The meat of the sandwich is the lyrics and music. All the melodies and everything is the toppings.
Anyway, I think the music is as important as the lyrics even though the general listener with no music back ground will never hear or catch most of what you do on the instrument. Solo’s are just soloing. I noodle on my guitar every day. Sometimes something I am doing will “stand out” from the noise. Somehow it speaks to me and I record it. Then I will go over it over and over and see what happens. The song will develop as I play it over and over. More ideas will come to the top and I build on it. As far as lyrics, I am always paying attention to what I hear or not hear. Sometimes an idea will come to me and for some reason, the lyrics just come. Sometimes I have to sit and wait. But in my head, even if I am not around my guitar, like at work, I am massaging those ideas. If it feels “forced”, I abandon it. I use the song I wrote “winter eyes” as an example. My wife told me a couple of winters ago as I was heading outside to not forget to “winterize” our camper. I misheard and heard “winter eyes” and that spark “sparked”. I went back in and wrote most of that song in no time. In my head I would think about winter things and things associated with it. Winter, spring, summer and fall. Snow melts. Summer smiles, leaves fall, etc. I take none of my writing lightly. I could carless what anyone else thinks but to me its personal and has to be right.
Then on the other side of fence, we have other types of writers in our group. We have one that will just play a general flaccid chord progression, like G.D and A. make up a generic title and then just throw words out without no digression. It works too. It doesn’t work for me, but I am not him.
As far as song doctors, or outside writers. I can only use the examples I know of. Within recent years though we always recorded in Nashville, we started using some bigger named producers on our projects. In Nashville, at a certain level everyone has to get their fingers in the pie. If you bring lyrics and music like we do already written, the song has to go thru the producer’s song doctor. They are helpful and will look at your song from the outside. Make lyric suggestions, like “cast a wider net”. Don’t be too narrow, try to appeal to more than just one group. “this word isn’t working and there is a better word”. Etc. They also help structure a song too. Move the bridge here. Don’t over play in this area. Your song should be changing gears as it moves along. For example, “stairway to Heaven” starts off in a slow gear and as the song progresses, it “shifts gears” to the next speed and so on until the solo opens up and you are now pedal to the floor hauling a**, then the song downshifts and slows down back to the end. It was a musically journey. The song doctor’s get a credit in writing too. It’s not as much as the over all writer but it is a part of it.
Also as I have found in Nashville, no matter how good or steady your meter is, there will be session players on your recording. It is an unwritten, written law. Merle Haggard supposedly tired of having Nashville provided session players, recorded “I think I’ll just stay here and drink” with his band.
We are on the new stuff we recorded but there are session players on it too. It’s just the way it is. We don’t have Merle’s clout! We are still in the middle of recording so I will keep you posted if you are interested.

I almost always write music first, and then possibly edit the music once the lyrics are written.
Sometimes I would hum a vocal melody.
But I would present a finished product to the band, with basic drums and bass. Everything except lyrics and possibly vocals.
I am more of a verse lyricist than a chorus guy. Our bass player was always good chorus guy.
I was always open to suggestions, but mostly, everyone was ok with the whole idea.
Sometimes someone would bring an idea that’s a basic GCD progression and I would “flesh it out” by inverting chords or splitting picking parts in to harmonies etc…
One thing that was always an issue with our drummer….most drummers do not get writing credits, because they are just putting a beat to the song, or embellishing on the beat provided.
There are exceptions, as in a band (VH) splitting all credits equally, or Neil Pearl writing lyrics.
I have always heard that music, melodies and lyrics are what constitute a writing credit.
Normally, I would not have an issue with splitting writing credits across the board, but if your bandmates are all out golfing, fishing or partying while you are putting all the time in creating the music, that becomes an issue. At least in my eyes it did.
Where are you recording at in Nashville?
We recorded 2 albums at Ocean Way in Nashville.
Very cool place.

[keyofgee]

the first four albums were recorded at sound emporium studios. Each time we upgraded the engineer. lol. With the fourth album having Anthony Focx final master it. The last songs we recently recorded the draft tracks at OmniSounds. We have since moved to another studio to finish them.