Socialized Medicine

[EvilMadman]

Socialized Medicine

By Dan Smoot
Reprinted in 2000 from The Freeman, April, 1960,
with the permission of the Foundation for Economic Education,
Irvington-on-Hudson, NY 10533

IN 1884, Prince Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of Germany, instituted the first modern program of socialized medicine. It was called compulsory national health insurance. Bismarck hated communism. His motive in introducing socialized medicine in Germany was to buy the loyalty of the German masses as a means of keeping them from becoming communists. Bismarck adopted "nationalistic socialism to end international socialism"-to use his own words. To use other words, Bismarck was the first leader of a great nation to fight communism by adopting communism.

The German citizens paid more for their national compulsory health insurance than they had paid for private insurance before Bismarck came along-and they got less in return. Bismarck's scheme failed miserably to provide better medical care for the people of Germany; but it did become an important feature of the German militaristic state; it helped pave the way for Hitler a generation later; and it furnished a pattern with which practically every other nation in the West-including America-has experimented.

British Experience

England first started experimenting with socialized medicine in 1911. The experiments were a failure, as they always have been everywhere. But government never retrenches. When government seizes power and money from the people in order to promote their welfare and then makes matters worse for them, government always argues that it didn't have enough power and money to do enough promoting. In England, for example, when Lloyd George's rather moderate experiment in the Bismarckian type of national health insurance was abandoned, the nation went all the way into communized medicine. The National Health Program which became the law of England in July 1948 is modeled on the Soviet system created by Lenin.

In less than two years, there were more than half a million people on the waiting lists for hospitalization, while some forty thousand hospital beds were out of service because of a nurse shortage. The hospital shortage in Britain has become so acute that many mentally deficient and helpless, aged people are unable to secure institutional care. The only effective means of easing the shortage is to deny hospital admission to the old and chronically ill who cannot be discharged once they are admitted. In industrial centers, some British doctors have as many as 4,000 registered patients each. Such doctors can give each patient only three minutes per call-three minutes overall, for consultation, diagnosis, prescription, filling out official forms, and maintaining proper records for governmental inspectors.

Twelve per cent of all British taxes go into the national health program. Thus the wretchedly inadequate "free" medical services in Britain actually cost the average Englishman considerably more than an American pays for the most expensive private health insurance and hospitalization. [NOTE: this was written before Medicare was enacted in 1965 -- Ed.]

Over and above what the British themselves have put into socialized medicine, one must consider also the billions of dollars which America has pumped into the British economy as loans and outright gifts. And still the thing is a failure. Why?

Whenever government enters a field of private activity, that field becomes a political battleground. Whenever you mix politics with medicine, doctoring becomes a political instead of a medical activity.

"Something for Nothing"

But the primary reasons for the inevitable failure of socialized medicine can be found in the patients themselves. When people are forced to pay for something, whether they want it or not, they are inclined to use as much of it as they can in order to get their money's worth. There are endless stories about Englishmen who trade their government-issued eyeglasses, wigs, and even false teeth, for beer. There are housewives who trade government-issued medicine for perfume and cigarettes. And there are some who pick up extra money by selling the gold fillings out of their teeth-getting them replaced by government dentists and then selling them again.

Malingerers are people who pretend to be sick in order to get sick pay, social security benefits, free hospitalization, or a rest at government expense. Hypochondriacs are people who think they are sick, but aren't. There are countless thousands of such people. No system has ever been devised for definitely identifying them, for weeding out the unnecessary or unreasonable or dishonest demands made upon the medical care services-no system, that is, except the one existing in a free society where a person must pay his own doctor bill or is controlled by provisions of an insurance policy which he himself has bought.

No compulsory health insurance program has found a means to discourage racketeers or petty complainers who make useless trips to the doctor and monopolize professional time that should be spent on people really needing care.

Pamphlet No. 1075, August, 2000

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

British Sludgers, how is health care in your country? Is it the abject failure EvilMadman would lead us to believe?

[Supersonic]

British Sludgers, how is health care in your country? Is it the abject failure EvilMadman would lead us to believe?

Well I'm British and none of my family or friends have ever had a problem with the NHS. I'm probably going back there some time this year and my 'pre-exisitng condition' which would cost me a lot of money if dealt with privately, will cost me just what I have to pay through my salary (seriously not much). I get a nurse who I can contact at any time, arrange whatever treatment I need, when I need it.

I think I have to have a kidney biopsy in the near future. I was informed that it will probably take up to 3 months to get it done on the NHS, as there is really no rush. I'm not worried, sick or dying so I can wait that time. Just got to get the ball rolling on that one.

Anyway, Dan Smoot is a right wing activist who wrote that piece in the most negative way possible to justify your battles in the US in the early 60s. Propaganda. Argue the toss over it if anyone likes but I really can't be arsed wasting time over people who are'nt going to change their views and I'm not even going to try.

I honestly don't give a fuck what you do in the US regarding your healthcare. Obamacare is nothing like the NHS and never will be. Don't like the NHS? Then don't come to the UK. We're a friendly bunch but shut the fuck up as the majority rich and poor are happy with it (it can always be better but there WOULD be riots everywhere if it was taken away).

It is interesting though that your country is so split over an issue like this. Good luck in your civil war

[Supersonic]

Forgot to add that I have used private healthcare in the past (UK and US)and in all honesty, it cost me a fortune when I got seriously sick and was a complete pain in the ass.

The treatment and care was okay but when my allowances ran out (pretty fucking quickly), I was left to pay for the bills myself. Tried to transfer to another private healthcare operator but my pre existing condition was denied. Great

One of my friends in California who is seriously rich, had to get a double hip replacement in his 40s. Although he had a damn good private health plan, he still had to pay a fortune as his insurers decided not to pay anymore than they could get away with.

So there you go. A view from a British sludger.

[Ugmo]

England first started experimenting with socialized medicine in 1911. The experiments were a failure, as they always have been everywhere.

What the fuck is this shit?

Was that even true in 1960? Evil Madman, you need to get on a plane and visit a country that has socialized medicine (other than the United States, which of course has socialized Medicare and Medicaid) and see how unhappy people are about it. I can tell you that the media reaction over here has been "About time. Welcome to the 20th Century, United States."

[MickeyG]

When I lived in the UK up until 2002, me or my family had no trouble with the NHS. My dad has had a bunch of operations over the years, all taken care of by the NHS with no additional cost to us. Sure, like any system it's not perfect, but I think it's better than the one the US has been suffering under for years.

[Hames Jetfield]

This whole debate has been quite illuminating regarding how Americans view themselves in relation to other modern, western nations. Basically, from what I see, if you feel America's healthcare system(or any institution for that matter) isn't the best in the world then you're not a patriot. It just shows how truly insular Americans, as a whole, are. I’ve travelled a bit and I love my country but man if that’s what being patriotic is to most people then I don’t think I am.

[bane]

This whole debate has been quite illuminating regarding how Americans view themselves in relation to other modern, western nations. Basically, from what I see, if you feel America's healthcare system(or any institution for that matter) isn't the best in the world then you're not a patriot. It just shows how truly insular Americans, as a whole, are. I’ve travelled a bit and I love my country but man if that’s what being patriotic is to most people then I don’t think I am.

Evil Madman isn't representative of most Americans, just sayin'.

[EvilMadman]

British Sludgers, how is health care in your country? Is it the abject failure EvilMadman would lead us to believe?

Well I'm British and none of my family or friends have ever had a problem with the NHS.

Well, your statement doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't been any problems whatsoever with the NHS. Surely some people must have had some poor experiences somewhere along the system line? And possibly more than you would be aware of.

Anyway, Dan Smoot is a right wing activist who wrote that piece in the most negative way possible to justify your battles in the US in the early 60s. Propaganda. Argue the toss over it if anyone likes but I really can't be arsed wasting time over people who are'nt going to change their views and I'm not even going to try.

And there aren't any radical left wing activists who spout a near constant stream of propaganda and/or talking points anywhere on planet Earth?

We're a friendly bunch but shut the fuck up as the majority rich and poor are happy with it

Yeah, I could tell immediately by your polite language.

(it can always be better but there WOULD be riots everywhere if it was taken away).

Yes, that is probably exactly what the Democrats are counting on.

It is interesting though that your country is so split over an issue like this. Good luck in your civil war

Well, if the unemployment rate drastically spikes upward before the elections roll around because of the negative effect this new "ObamaCare" legislation may have had on businesses, then you really will see a "civil war"! Actually, it'll be more like Democrat armageddon. Cause I've said it before, "You know, getting that great new "affordable" Heath Care isn't really going to mean very much if you lose your Goddamn job!"

[coatsy]

my daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes six months ago and our NHS have been incredible regarding care for her. the amount of prescriptions we need regularly are unreal and my wife and i would struggle to afford the medication she needs. she also has her own diabetes nurse and regularly sees doctors every couple of months to monitor her condition. my wife works for the NHS as a midwife and she tells me it isn't perfect but we are very lucky to have it.

[Supersonic]

Well, your statement doesn't necessarily mean that there hasn't been any problems whatsoever with the NHS. Surely some people must have had some poor experiences somewhere along the system line? And possibly more than you would be aware of.

Sure, some have. And I'm sure the same is true in the current US too.

And there aren't any radical left wing activists who spout a near constant stream of propaganda and/or talking points anywhere on planet Earth?

Sure, easy enough to find but as I stated, the NHS and Obamacare are different. You're against Obamacare. Good for you.

Yeah, I could tell immediately by your polite language.

Maybe I'm highly religious and take exception to 'Goddamn'. Fucking god dammit!!!

Yes, that is probably exactly what the Democrats are counting on.

Riots: Maybe you're right but the same goes for Republicans too. Partly why I find the whole thing interesting to follow.

Cause I've said it before, "You know, getting that great new "affordable" Heath Care isn't really going to mean very much if you lose your Goddamn job!"

Depends on which way you view it. I'm happy for my treatment for my own condition to be covered whether I'm in or out of work. At least I know I can stay healthy enough to find more work and hold that position rather than slowly die and wait for hand outs elsewhere.

If the civil war starts anytime soon, I've got plenty of guns here in the house I live to loan out. I don't mind which side you're on, as long as I get paid. I am a capitalist you know. I just like having the education and health taken care of so I don't have to worry about it. If I recruit new employees, I want them to be as healthy and educated as possible, no matter whether they are rich or poor.

Now ask me about other types of hand outs and I'll probably agree with you in many cases.

[EvilMadman]

Depends on which way you view it. I'm happy for my treatment for my own condition to be covered whether I'm in or out of work. At least I know I can stay healthy enough to find more work and hold that position rather than slowly die and wait for hand outs elsewhere.

Well, I'm certainly glad that you're getting the treatment you need, but why couldn't Obama/Pelosi just propose some sort of inexpensive "calamity" insurance which would also cover people (adults & children) with pre-existing conditions, and just focus on that instead of instituting a brand new trillion dollar Healthcare program with all the penalties/bureaucratic "red tape"/ and gigantic tax hikes that are sure to follow?

Sorry, I didn't mean to bore you with my rant.

Riots: Maybe you're right but the same goes for Republicans too. Partly why I find the whole thing interesting to follow.

No, no. I didn't mean to imply the Democrats wanted riots or any kind of violence. I meant that they're probably hoping to get people hooked on "ObamaCare" for political reasons.

[KneelandBobDylan]

Depends on which way you view it. I'm happy for my treatment for my own condition to be covered whether I'm in or out of work. At least I know I can stay healthy enough to find more work and hold that position rather than slowly die and wait for hand outs elsewhere.

Well, I'm certainly glad that you're getting the treatment you need, but why couldn't Obama/Pelosi just propose some sort of inexpensive "calamity" insurance which would also cover people (adults & children) with pre-existing conditions, and just focus on that instead of instituting a brand new trillion dollar Healthcare program with all the penalties/bureaucratic "red tape"/ and gigantic tax hikes that are sure to follow?

Sorry, I didn't mean to bore you with my rant.

Riots: Maybe you're right but the same goes for Republicans too. Partly why I find the whole thing interesting to follow.

No, no. I didn't mean to imply the Democrats wanted riots or any kind of violence. I meant that they're probably hoping to get people hooked on "ObamaCare" for political reasons.

Why couldn't Republicans support a bill that is pretty much what they proposed when Clinton tried to reform health care?

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Why couldn't Republicans support a bill that is pretty much what they proposed when Clinton tried to reform health care?

When the Democrats adopted the idea from Republicans, it stopped being conservative and became socialist.

[dtmfs]

I saw something about that last night, wasn't it grassley and hatch? Grassley's a Cunt and an embarrasment to Iowans.

[Ugmo]

My understanding of that bill in 93 is that it was basically used as a ruse to kill Clintoncare. Clinton came into office with a health care bill that was written by his wife and basically presented it to Congress and said "sign it." And Congress (Republicans and Democrats alike) didn't want to sign it, since they'd had nothing to do with its drafting. The 93 alternative plan was written by conservatives and presented by both Republicans and Democrats, but once they had succeeded in killing Clinton's bill, they just abandoned the idea of health care reform altogether, because it's a messy business (as we've just seen).

[nikkiq]

Well, being the lazy ass drain on society that I am... of course I love the NHS... as I'm self-employed I still pay National Insurance Contributions, btw... and for that small contribution my son and I get all the healthcare and medication we need without exemptions and without ever having to pay an extra penny (except a £7.20 prescription charge for most adults which I don't pay at the moment due to receipt of Income Support). We can also get free/affordable dental care and eye care depending on circumstances.

You can read about our NHS here... http://www.nhs.uk/NHSENGLAND/Pages/NHSEngland.aspx

All this, and we can still go for private healthcare if we wish... many employers also include private health insurance in their remuneration packages. And the NHS is always there to pick up the slack when your insurance company decides they won't cover you for something.

The NHS has it's faults, but it's certainly not a failure. I'm sure even your fancy US healthcare system makes mistakes sometimes.