U.S. To Loose Its AAA Credit Ratings...

[Drunk Kennedy]

wow, for the first time since 1917...this nation is crumbling beneath us.

nice work by both political parties.

[pooldude]

wow, for the first time since 1917...this nation is crumbling beneath us.

Not only is the title of the thread premature, DK's opening statement is also incorrect, given that he seemingly bypassed the Great Depression of 1929-1940:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_ ... %80%932009



Nowhere in today's headlines does it say the US has lost its credit rating.

http://www.metafilter.com/81958/UK-and- ... AAA-rating

We could be downgraded, if things don't improve. Even Warren Buffet's empire has suffered a credit downgrade, in this shifting economy.

All boats sink with a low tide. It's really a matter of being strong & resolute, while waiting for the inevitable pendulum swing in the other direction.

I believe Mr Obama when he pledges to address our deficits, as in today's press conference regarding the TARP funds that are being paid back with interest, & possibly redirected.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1260288 ... lenews_wsj

Americans are a strong people, & I have faith that we will eventually work our way thru this current crisis.

[Drunk Kennedy]

you are correct...i didnt catch the depression years. and no where in my title did i say that we LOST the rating...i said too loose...as its most likely going to happen.

I believe Mr Obama is leading us in the right direction, & I believe him when he pledges to address our deficits, as in today's press conference regarding the TARP funds that are being paid back with interest, & possibly redirected.

i could not disagree with this more. and lmao at tarp funds ever being paid back at all...let alone with interest.

[pooldude]

lmao at tarp funds ever being paid back at all...let alone with interest.

Don't take my word for it, while you're laughing your ass off:

http://rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1146188

(RTTNews) - Wednesday, Bank of America Corp. (BAC: News ) said it would repay the U.S. Treasury the whole of $45 billion debt that it received under the Troubled Asset Relief Program or TARP. The repayment will be made after the completion of a securities offering. Bank of America would save about $3.6 billion in annual dividend costs from the TARP investment, once it made the repayment. As of now, the company has paid $2.54 billion in dividends to the U.S. Treasury on the TARP investment.

i said too loose...

I wonder if poster DK is perhaps "too loose" with inaccurate predictions & assessments?

[Drunk Kennedy]

its great that BoA, and other corps will pay back the fed...but the fed will never repay the tax payers. that is what i meant.

as for grammar errors...i always thought you were a better poster than itwalks...please dont make me re-think that stance.

[JakeYonkel]

as for grammar errors...i always thought you were a better poster than itwalks...please dont make me re-think that stance.

They both went through public education in the 40s. Shit was different then.

[pooldude]

as for grammar errors...i always thought you were a better poster than itwalks...please dont make me re-think that stance.

I really don't care about silly grammatical errors. We all make them on occasion.

I do care about your fundamental misstatements, of which I already (politely) pointed out several.

Isn't that the point of political debate?

[tin00can]

I believe Mr Obama when he pledges to address our deficits, as in today's press conference regarding the TARP funds that are being paid back with interest, & possibly redirected.

What has Obama done to make you confident he will do anything else other than continue to increase the deficit and national debt? Other than what he says of course.

In fact, the TARP funds being paid back by the banks who want no part in government control should be going towards the national debt, but just like you would expect from a leftist administration they are going to spend it anyway. Spend any money they can find anywhere regardless of what it is for. Screw the debt. Even though this pattern of irresponsible governance is unsustainable even in the short term. Unbelievable.

Wait a minute - only the leftist admins spend like crazy? Really? I'd expect that from EITHER party. Prove me wrong.

[pooldude]

What has Obama done to make you confident he will do anything else other than continue to increase the deficit and national debt? Other than what he says of course.

What makes you confident anyone else would do any better, given our situation?

Mr Clinton pledged to try to tame our deficits @ the beginning of his administration, after the massive spending in the preceding 12 years of Reagan / Bush I.

Mr Clinton did reduce the deficits later in his term, & I'm counting on Mr Obama to do the same, after he gets the mess he inherited from Bush II under control.

If he doesn't, you have my permission to try to vote him out.

[Ugmo]

The previous administration spent like drunken sailors. And that's giving a bad name to drunken sailors. Unfortunately this administrations deficit spending has made their spending look like childs play. It's not going in the right direction when the deficit quadruples in just one year under Obama.

So let's see, what part of the equation are you overlooking that the previous administration didn't have to deal with until its last couple of months in office. Hmmm, what could it be?

And while we're at it, what country did the previous administration choose to blow hundreds of billions of dollars on? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the United States.

I'm sure you would have preferred bread lines and a 20 percent GDP contraction to Obama spending money.

[Ugmo]

Health care reform and cap and trade legislation have nothing to do with turning around an economy. This group finds ways to spend hundreds of billions of dollars at a time regardless of its impact on the economy. Give them credit, they are good at what they do.

The world was never 24 hours away from global financial collapse even if CNN said so.

I get the feeling you are confused as to what most of the money has been spent on. Let me help you out:

Under Bush: Iraq debacle, huge tax cuts for people who didn't need them. This is money the people will NEVER get back.

Under Obama: Bailouts (which are being paid back with interest and will thus actually put money into the public treasuries), stimulus measures designed to create jobs.

Health care reform is absolutely essential to keep the United States from going bankrupt. It doesn't cost money, it will save money, as the U.S. currently spends twice as much of its GDP on health care than any other first-world country.

I think people really, really need to distinguish between Bush's and Obama's spending when they try and act like both are the same. Bush's spending was non-sustainable, while Obama's is designed to be sustainable.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I will take CNN's credibility over yours.

[Ugmo]

- Yeah, you got a tax cut. A few hundred bucks presumably (I don't know how much money you make). But you know who got the lion's share of it? People who absolutely did not need it. Bush gave away future generations' money to people in the top income bracket, but he gave everyone a little bit so everyone would feel like they were benefiting. Nice little smokescreen, huh? And you fell for it, you sucker, and you're still acting like Obama is the one cheating you.

- Who said anything about relieving debt? Obama is spending the money in the way he feels is the most responsible. Once again, you are acting like he is just wasting it the way Bush did. Wrong.

- Once again, you are a sucker. The revenues will be raised from tax increases on the wealthy. If you are not wealthy you are a dunce, because the wealthy have used Fox News to get you out on the street in opposition to health care reform with your pitchfork while they reap the benefits. And if you are wealthy, then good, you deserve to pay higher taxes after Dubya spend the last eight years pouring money into your pocket.

And "the majority of Americans" are fucking dense. So dense that when you ask them if they want a "government option" they go all pear-shaped, but when you ask them if they want a "public option" they think that sounds like a good thing - EVEN THOUGH IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME THING. As if they know jack shit about how anything is structured.

- The deficit has quadrupled because historic actions were needed to avert the crisis. The same stimulus measures were taken everywhere in the world, including by China. You cannot compare what Bush's didn't need to spend but spent anyway with what Obama absolutely needed and needs to spend.

And seriously. Don't act like you have any kind of insider info about what kind of shape the economy was in when Obama took office, because you've already just proven you don't know WTF you're talking about.

[Nevermind]

- Yeah, you got a tax cut. A few hundred bucks presumably (I don't know how much money you make). But you know who got the lion's share of it? People who absolutely did not need it. Bush gave away future generations' money to people in the top income bracket,

Just look at that statement right there. It's everything that's wrong with liberalism. You may not be one, but that statement is. It's not like Bush gave those evil rich people anything. He allowed them to keep more of the money that they earned. Who the fuck are you to decide who needs what? And the people in the top income bracket pay the most taxes in this country, provide jobs etc...Let me know when you get a job from a bum.

[Ugmo]

- Yeah, you got a tax cut. A few hundred bucks presumably (I don't know how much money you make). But you know who got the lion's share of it? People who absolutely did not need it. Bush gave away future generations' money to people in the top income bracket,

Just look at that statement right there. It's everything that's wrong with liberalism. You may not be one, but that statement is. It's not like Bush gave those evil rich people anything. He allowed them to keep more of the money that they earned. Who the fuck are you to decide who needs what? And the people in the top income bracket pay the most taxes in this country, provide jobs etc...Let me know when you get a job from a bum.

No you fucking dunce, he presided over the dramatic redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the rich. That is everything that's wrong with Republican politicians. They bleed everyone else dry for their own goddamned greedy purposes.

[Ugmo]

Ah, trickle down economics. A brilliant new theory that I'm sure works wonders. You needed a tax break did you? Funny, as an American your taxes are already lower than in any other first-world country outside of Monaco. And as an American you are also sitting on a mountain of national debt, which by the way you have been bitching about all week long. You certainly did not NEED a tax break. You wanted one, but you certainly didn't need one.

These threads are always fun because EYU shows up to clean house with the statistics on how reducing tax rates in fact does NOT increase tax revenues. And here was me thinking you were just a regular poster with a new alternym. Apparently not, as you would have already been schooled on this topic on more than one occasion.

[Ugmo]

Who the fuck are you to tell me or anyone else that we didn't a tax break? Are you even an American citizen? I bet you aren't judging on the way you speak.
And the answer to soaring national debt is to REDUCE SPENDING. Something that seems to be foreign to you.

ME ME ME!!!! Give me my government handout! My grandkids can pay for it! Shut the fuck up. Your taxes are already lower than everyone else's in the world. You don't need a tax break, you need some fucking sense knocked into you. Reduce spending huh? So Bush reduced spending to offset those enormous tax breaks that overwhelmingly went to the rich?

And for the record, after the previous administration cut taxes the federal government enjoyed an all time high in revenues. Go put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I don't believe you. Let's see the data. And even if revenues did reach an all-time high, it's probably because the population also reached an all-time high - more people paying taxes than ever before.

[bane]

Uh, getting to keep your own money isn't a "government handout" Ugmo. The wisdom of the practice is certainly debatable, particularly while we were in the middle of not one, but two wars, but getting to keep something that was yours in the first place isn't a "handout". As for the grandkids comment, who do you think is going to pay for that pork laden stimulus package that you've been praising the president for? The top two percent are going to feel Obama's spending more so than the rest of us to be sure, but it's foolish to think that it won't affect all of our wallets, including those of our children. He's raised taxes a shit ton already. Go price a pack of cigarettes.

[thejuggernaut]

Uh, getting to keep your own money isn't a "government handout" Ugmo. The wisdom of the practice is certainly debatable, particularly while we were in the middle of not one, but two wars, but getting to keep something that was yours in the first place isn't a "handout". As for the grandkids comment, who do you think is going to pay for that pork laden stimulus package that you've been praising the president for? The top two percent are going to feel Obama's spending more so than the rest of us to be sure, but it's foolish to think that it won't affect all of our wallets, including those of our children. He's raised taxes a shit ton already. Go price a pack of cigarettes.

Tax cuts work in theory. The problem is, politicians are beholden to backers so they all spend which negates the tax cuts.

The Democrats are tax and spend, whereas the Republicans are borrow and spend.

If both sides are hell bent on spending, then at least it should be tax and spend.

The other problem is the pendulum game. The Republicans borrow like crazy and devalue the dollar, the Democrats have to tax the piss out of everyone to recover, the Republicans give it all away, etc etc etc.

If They could just get their shit together and settle on a reasonable, fixed rate, plus various other consumption taxes, everything would be fine.

However, that will never happen, so long as you have Billy Bob "I should pay no taxes" arguing against Dartanian "rich people should pay more even though they produce the capital in the first place".

[bane]

Uh, getting to keep your own money isn't a "government handout" Ugmo. The wisdom of the practice is certainly debatable, particularly while we were in the middle of not one, but two wars, but getting to keep something that was yours in the first place isn't a "handout". As for the grandkids comment, who do you think is going to pay for that pork laden stimulus package that you've been praising the president for? The top two percent are going to feel Obama's spending more so than the rest of us to be sure, but it's foolish to think that it won't affect all of our wallets, including those of our children. He's raised taxes a shit ton already. Go price a pack of cigarettes.

Tax cuts work in theory. The problem is, politicians are beholden to backers so they all spend which negates the tax cuts.

The Democrats are tax and spend, whereas the Republicans are borrow and spend.

If both sides are hell bent on spending, then at least it should be tax and spend.

The other problem is the pendulum game. The Republicans borrow like crazy and devalue the dollar, the Democrats have to tax the piss out of everyone to recover, the Republicans give it all away, etc etc etc.

If They could just get their shit together and settle on a reasonable, fixed rate, plus various other consumption taxes, everything would be fine.

However, that will never happen, so long as you have Billy Bob "I should pay no taxes" arguing against Dartanian "rich people should pay more even though they produce the capital in the first place".

Well said. "Billy Bob vs. Dartanian" was good for an early morning chuckle.

[Ugmo]

Uh, getting to keep your own money isn't a "government handout" Ugmo. The wisdom of the practice is certainly debatable, particularly while we were in the middle of not one, but two wars, but getting to keep something that was yours in the first place isn't a "handout". As for the grandkids comment, who do you think is going to pay for that pork laden stimulus package that you've been praising the president for? The top two percent are going to feel Obama's spending more so than the rest of us to be sure, but it's foolish to think that it won't affect all of our wallets, including those of our children. He's raised taxes a shit ton already. Go price a pack of cigarettes.

In a fantasy world where unicorns eat butterflies and shit rainbows, nobody has to pay any taxes. In the real world that guy's taxes are already very low, so when he says he "needed" a tax cut what he means is he wanted a tax cut. It was an unbelievably irresponsible tax cut in view of the fact that Bush was already spending money like a drunken sailor on an unnecessary war in Iraq.

As far as the stimulus package: I'm not saying spending all that money is a wonderful thing, but it is a necessary thing. Think back to a year ago, when the world's leading economists were predicting total economic collapse without drastic action. When you are facing the real posibility of much of the nation's wealth being destroyed by a 20 percent GDP contraction over a period of several years, spending a trillion dollars to avert that collapse is the lesser of two evils.

Oh yeah, and you're going to get zero sympathy out of me about the price of cigarettes. Don't want to pay those extra taxes? I can think of a pretty simple solution.

[bane]

During his campaign Obama promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone except the top 2%. My point is, he already has.

The stimulus may or may not have made the difference. It's hard to say whether it's working or if the economy would have recovered on it's own anyway. All those world economists that you're quoting are pretty torn on that one. Regardless, I do agree that the stimulus was probably necessary. All the extra pork in it wasn't though.

[Ugmo]

During his campaign Obama promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone except the top 2%. My point is, he already has.

The stimulus may or may not have made the difference. It's hard to say whether it's working or if the economy would have recovered on it's own anyway. All those world economists that you're quoting are pretty torn on that one. Regardless, I do agree that the stimulus was probably necessary. All the extra pork in it wasn't though.

How much extra pork was really in it? I know people (rightfully) bitch a lot about pork, but it doesn't actually account for a high high percentage of the average budget.

Campaign promises are not to be taken seriously. Anyone's! I saw an interview with Bill Clinton recently... it was probably on The Daily Show, and he basically said the key to making campaign promises is to word them in such a way that you don't feel like you've betrayed people's trust too much when you have to break them.

[bane]

During his campaign Obama promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone except the top 2%. My point is, he already has.

The stimulus may or may not have made the difference. It's hard to say whether it's working or if the economy would have recovered on it's own anyway. All those world economists that you're quoting are pretty torn on that one. Regardless, I do agree that the stimulus was probably necessary. All the extra pork in it wasn't though.

How much extra pork was really in it? I know people (rightfully) bitch a lot about pork, but it doesn't actually account for a high high percentage of the average budget.

The pork question is hard to quantify. In a bill that is designed to stimulate economic growth and jobs, pretty much anything can be labeled as viable. For example, there is 150 million dollars in that thing for parking lot improvements at a little league park in Puerto Rico. Seriously, 150 MILLION dollars for a little league parking lot? In a bill like that one it's incredibly easy for politicians to pay back a few favors. One article I read had roughly 300 billion of the bill going to discretionary spending. That means that it's very difficult to keep tabs on where it goes.

[bane]

The pork question is hard to quantify. In a bill that is designed to stimulate economic growth and jobs, pretty much anything can be labeled as viable. For example, there is 150 million dollars in that thing for parking lot improvements at a little league park in Puerto Rico. Seriously, 150 MILLION dollars for a little league parking lot?

It's 105,000,000 for their highway program. The word "parking" doesn't appear anywhere in the Stimulus Bill. You got played.

Provided further, That of the funds provided under this heading, $105,000,000 shall be for the Puerto Rico highway program

Go ahead and search the bill and show us where it says 150,000,000 for a little league parking lot.

http://readthestimulus.org/index.php

I'll let you search it, maybe you can even provide a nice graph to illustrate your point. I've already seen it. Are you seriously stating that there is no pork in that bill or are you just being your usual contrarian self?

[Ugmo]

Hey Your Momma, you suck at this.

[Ugmo]

Are you an American citizen? You never said if you were. Something tells me you are not. Which would explain a lot.

Yep, I certainly am. I laugh about this shit every time some conservative fuckhead brings up the "You're not even American, it's none of your business" argument. I am American and I vote every 2 years (against the Asshole Party).

Now let me flip the question on you: ever been outside your hometown?

[bane]

I've already seen it. Are you seriously stating that there is no pork in that bill or are you just being your usual contrarian self?

I didn't say there wasn't "pork" in the stimulus bill. I said there wasn't the type of wasteful spending you are describing. There is nothing in the bill about a parking lot in Puerto Rico. You heard that and decided to whine about it without checking your facts.

I used that as one example among many. How about the golf carts cars? Do you want me to go dig that one out? Hell yes there is wasteful spending in there. It's all over the place in that bill. I guess it depends on what you consider "wasteful". The guys that build golf cart cars don't consider it "wasteful" but the rest of us probably do.

[Ugmo]

Yep, I certainly am. I laugh about this shit every time some conservative fuckhead brings up the "You're not even American, it's none of your business" argument. I am American and I vote every 2 years (against the Asshole Party).

Now let me flip the question on you: ever been outside your hometown?

Do you live in America? I would assume you do since you have such strong opinions about it. Though something still tells me you don't. Very few Americans have communist views such as yourself. Much more prevelant in countries outside the United States. Which is why I'm asking.

Not any more no. Although I'm probably slightly less liberal than I was when I lived in America.

So, ever been outside of America? Judging by your utter cluelessness about anything that goes on outside your immediate surroundings, I'm guessing no.

[Ugmo]

I have. And really, you don't even live in this country? I knew my suspicions were correct. Nothing against your choice of residence, but please, spare me your opinions on this country. It means nothing if you don't even live in it. If you live in Europe than you have exactly what you want. A socialist utopia. Leave us alone and let us regain what this country was founded upon. And it ain't 7 dollar gasoline and 60% tax confiscation.

Where have you been, Canada? You don't even know what communism means, you tard.

U.S. policies affect the entire world. And my opinions mean more than yours, considering what a dumbfuck you are.

[Ugmo]

Where have you been, Canada? You don't even know what communism means, you tard.

U.S. policies affect the entire world. And my opinions mean more than yours, considering what a dumbfuck you are.

Your opinions are worthless if you don't even live here. It would be like me campaigning for policy change in Venezuela.

Yes, because of course Venezuelan politics affect the ENTIRE WORLD. Venezuela being the one remaining superpower and all.

You suck at this Internet thing, Your Momma. Just like you suck at voting. How does it feel to have voted for a cretin like GWB twice (am I assuming too much)?