What's NOT to like about Ron Paul?

[Rev. Johnny Tyler]

No seriously... I like the guy for the most part. He's a bit of a loon on some things, but hell... So am I! But really, I like that he is honest about where we're at. He's honest about the US being bankrupt, etc.

Is there something about Ron Paul that is really fucked up so bad that it outweighs all the cool stuff the guy is about?

[Cyd]

He's GAINING. Every day. People are taking notice. I'm trying to find something about his stand on issues that I don't like and I can't so far. It's easier to list all the great logical ideas coming from him. Like CUT FOREIGN AID. And repeal the war on drugs because, well, it wastes money and IT DOESN'T WORK. He sticks to the issues and schools the shit out of braindead reporters that waste time trying to dig up dirt. He's on a mission.

[Skate4RnR]

I love that he's shaking things up, I'm glad he's around.

[Cyd]

There's no doubt we're bankrupt and that to me is THE issue.

[Scoundrel]

I like that he's injected the Austrian school of economics into the conversation a bit (though I would like to see more). I'm a science guy but since 2008 I've been reading a lot of books on economics and I'm quite shocked at the "scientific" analysis and techniques used in Keynesian economics, I side far far more on the Austrian and Chicago side (and more with the Austrian as time goes on). I like that Paul is, and makes a differentiation between being, pro-free market without being pro-business. That said I disagree with his stance on abortion and immigration. Further I worry about the consequences of lopping a trillion in spending in just a single year. This kind of leads to my biggest question of all which is how would he unravel the country from it's ties to business and foreign entities. If we were to remove our central banking system and other countries kept theirs, what would the outcome be? Credit is a huge part of finance and certain industries live off of it (I'm not even talking about banks here), what would happen if we went onto a commodity standard (which is sound money) in this economy? Europe is a mess and China is showing cracks from all of its excessive spending as well. I'll take him over the others, but nobody asks him questions on how he would implement some of his bolder monetary and fiscal policies. If they did, 1. we would see how he would do it, and 2. we'd be able to hear the opinions of people who oppose it and get a debate going. It would be a bit of a pickle however because you can't make claims against the Austrian theory (or any other theory) based on data and events gathered under a Keynesian system. It's not making an apples to apples comparison, rather you would have to have both sides present aspects of their respective schools and explain them. Furthermore, since we've been following the Keynesian system, it make it easier to discredit the Keyensian school.





I understand his economics pretty well but I have little knowledge of our current foreign policy and the little I know is stuff I read in newspapers and magazine articles. So, not much depth there.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

I like that Paul is, and makes a differentiation between being, pro-free market without being pro-business. That said I disagree with his stance on abortion and immigration.

From my perspective, there is not much I disagree with him on. I support his economic platform with certain exceptions on consumer protection and tort reform. I disagree with part of his immigration platform, especially his desire to strip the jus soli justifications of birthright citizenship. I am anti-abortion (as he is) but I disagree with his state's rights handling of the issue, even though that doesn't really matter unless Roe is overturned. I am against gay marriage, but I do agree with his state's rights view on that issue.

I understand his economics pretty well but I have little knowledge of our current foreign policy and the little I know is stuff from newspapers and magazine articles. So, not much depth there.

Law and philosophy (including foreign policy) is my strong point, and economics is my weak point, which is why I'd like to discuss with you how he would implement his economic policies. As far as how, I guess the answer is: slowly. Immediately dismantling the welfare state is not possible because of the separation of powers. His notions of getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, etc, are little more than academic points in the span of a four year Presidential term and even Ron Paul has tacitly acknowledged this. But like you said, his ideology is at least the right track for the country to reform these institutions.

Let's stipulate that he does win. Focusing solely on economics, let us speculate what Ron Paul could do in his First 100 Days to affect economic change.

You go first...

[Scoundrel]

Focusing solely on economics, let us speculate what Ron Paul could do in his First 100 Days to affect economic change.

You go first...

The kind of change he wants to bring to monetary and fiscal policy would obviously require a slow process of weaning and it can't be done in one term. The thing is people want change and they want it now. One of the reasons monetary and fiscal policy is so popular is that it causes rapid change, issues are addressed immediately (albiet with band aids for axe wounds) and the results are rapid. The problem is it triggers off more problems which of course require more policy and the cycle continues until you're Greece. It's important people start to understand why he has the stance on economics that he has, I think most people have no idea. The more I read the more I think a lot of our problems including the growing separation of wealth stem from our system of moderate inflation, but the only people I've ever met at say, a bar, who agree the Federal Reserve system is shit are bunch of raving conspiracy theorist dumb-shits like Crabfan who think the world is controlled by the Jews or the "elites".












Or extra-terrestrial reptiles. (Us Iguana Sapiens see you Rev)



As for the first 100 days? Shit, perhaps if he cut spending enough I suppose he could lower taxes on the middle class (to throw out a number maybe incomes up to $250,000) which would be popular politically and possibly spur some consumer spending but not necessarily investment. I would imagine he would shoot to lower corporate tax rates to 15% as he said he would, which would make us more competitive (unless other countries so the same... except Europe. They can't. They're fucked. )but he needs to figure out how to keep that money (and the money some of the largest corporations are already sitting on) in the country. This might involve some new temporary tax legislation.

The important thing is to allow the middle class to have as much spending power as possible as it's them who are the engine for genuine economic growth and stability.



I'm more of an economic theory guy and not much a policy guy, so there was my highly deflective answer.


Your turn.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

Well, let's consider his most powerful move he could do almost immediately after taking office. He can't get rid of the Federal Reserve without Congress repealing the Federal Reserve Act, but he can appoint people to the two vacant positions on the Board of Governors of the Fed. Also Elizabeth Duke's term expires Jan 31 2012, shortly after Paul would be sworn in so that's another position filled. Ben Bernanke's chairmanship doesn't end until 2014, but Ron Paul and his hypothetical administration can impel him to step down as Chairman or possibly from the Board of Governors all together through no confidence. Others on the board may follow suit which would allow more Fed positions to be filled.

So assuming one or more of these things happen, in your opinion, what should a Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve made up of Austrian and freshwater economists do in order implement their economic views. If Walter E Williams is made Fed Chairman, how does he reign the beast that he sought to destroy?

[Scoundrel]

That's a good question and I'm waiting for an answer as well. I don't think any economist really knows exactly how to make a smooth transition, there are simply too many factors involved. The problem is that the U.S. economy is not self contained, it affects all the other countries as well, and they us. If these countries decide to continue using fiat currencies they can appreciate and depreciate their currencies as needed to compete with us. We've already seen China heckle us with currency adjustments (or lack there of).

Going back to making the switch I think it would be wise to pay down a large portion of our debt first, and allow businesses and individuals to do so as well. This would alleviate a lot of potential problems concerning credit taken on based on predictions of future inflation as well as give them wiggle room to take on new credit if need be. I just question if doing it in this current economic climate is the best idea. If the transition is slow and done at specific percentages laid out well ahead of time it would probably be pretty smooth though. I gotta run right now so I can't really finish. I'll write more later.

[Crazy Levi]

OK, I'll bite.

Isn't he a racist?

[Skate4RnR]

Does he have a penis? Was that penis born here in the US 'cause he looks like a fuckin' jew.

[bane]

There's very little not to like about that guy. I disagree pretty strongly on his immigration stance, and his isolationist views seem pretty far fetched, but otherwise, I think most of his ideas are fantastic. Too bad he looks like Elmer Fudd. I'm afraid he'd be the Bob Dole to Obama's Clinton if he got the nomination. Wouldn't stop me from voting for him, again.

[bane]

OK, I'll bite.

Isn't he a racist?

The race baiting thing is really no different than the birthers thing. AKA: dumb propaganda sold to idiots. You're not an idiot Levi. Don't buy into that drivel.

[Dr J Jones]

He is NOT an isolationist...he is a non-interventionist...which i agree with. The USA lacks the ability to mind our own fuckin business...

[DEATH ROW JOE]

He is NOT an isolationist....

A former Ron Paul staffer disagrees with you.

http://rightwingnews.com/election-2012/ ... -semitism/
Written By : Eric Dondero
Fmr. Senior Aide, US Cong. Ron Paul, 1997 – 2003
Campaign Coordinator, Ron Paul for Congress, 1995/96
National Organizer, Draft Ron Paul for President, 1991/92
Travel Aide/Personal Asst. Ron Paul, Libertarian for President
1987/88

Ron Paul is most assuredly an isolationist. He denies this charge vociferously. But I can tell you straight out, I had countless arguments/discussions with him over his personal views. For example, he strenuously does not believe the United States had any business getting involved in fighting Hitler in WWII. He expressed to me countless times, that “saving the Jews,” was absolutely none of our business. When pressed, he often times brings up conspiracy theories like FDR knew about the attacks of Pearl Harbor weeks before hand, or that WWII was just “blowback,” for Woodrow Wilson’s foreign policy errors, and such.

[Dr J Jones]

Eric Dondero is a liar. On CNN today he claims he quit because Paul's foreign policy had changed after 9/11.... but Paul's foreign policy has always been the same and 1998 interview proves that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LygUnKid ... re=related



Dondero=no credibilty

[DEATH ROW JOE]

Jeffrey Scott Shapiro a liar too?
http://biggovernment.com/jsshapiro/2011 ... holocaust/

Ron Paul in 2009: “I Wouldn’t Have Risked American Lives” To End The Holocaust
by Jeffrey Scott Shapiro

On the evening of Sept. 16, 2009, I was invited to a function for Rand Paul’s U.S. Senate campaign at the headquarters of Americans for Tax Reform.

I had been invited by a friend of mine via Facebook who was a passionate supporter of Ron Paul. Within minutes of arriving, I saw Rep. Paul enter the room, followed by an entourage of several college students.

I immediately walked up to Paul and introduced myself, and Paul smiled at me and shook my hand. I told him that I had always wanted to ask him a question, and that it was a hypothetical question, but I would appreciate his answer nonetheless. Paul smiled, and welcomed the question. At this point there were about 15 people surrounding us, listening.

And so I asked Congressman Paul: if he were President of the United States during World War II, and as president he knew what we now know about the Holocaust, but the Third Reich presented no threat to the U.S., would he have sent American troops to Nazi Germany purely as a moral imperative to save the Jews?”

And the Congressman answered:

“No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t risk American lives to do that. If someone wants to do that on their own because they want to do that, well, that’s fine, but I wouldn’t do that.”

[Dr J Jones]

and so..if "Mr Shapiro's" statement is true ...then Dr. Paul is indeed a non-interventionist...I still don't have a problem with that.

I also don't believe in giving up "American lives" to save the lives on "Non Americans"

Tell the GOP it's "Gods will"

[DEATH ROW JOE]

and so..if "Mr Shapiro's" statement is true ...then Dr. Paul is indeed a non-interventionist...I still don't have a problem with that.

Shapiro corroborated what Dondero said. Looks like you were wrong to call him a liar and claim he has no credibility.

[ROADHEAD]

He'll never be the nominee - point is moot. Vote for Newt. Wait, he'll never be on the ballot either. Sadly, Romney will be the candidate and will most likely lose.

[DEATH ROW JOE]

Here's a funny story about Ron Paul and the newsletters he does not read. Bruce Bartlett worked for Ron Paul in 1976.

http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/br ... never-ends
Bruce Bartlett
30 Aug 2010

I see that my old boss Ron Paul wants an audit of the nation's gold holdings to make sure the gold is really there and isn't lead bars covered with gold paint or something.

Unfortunately, I know from experience that when someone is committed to believing a conspiracy theory, no matter what evidence is presented against it, the result is simply to further confirm the original theory. I also know from experience that Ron Paul is very conspiracy-minded.

I recall one occasion when I was working at the Treasury Department and he was out of Congress, publishing an investment newsletter. He called to say that he had heard that the Treasury was building a new facility to print money with different designs and colors. The idea was to call in all the old money in order to catch drug dealers, tax cheats and so on. Ron told me that he had heard that a new high-speed currency printing plant was secretly being built in Texas.

As a courtesy to him, I actually looked into this. I was told that there were no such plans and that such a scheme would be impossible to implement without congressional authorization. I told this to Ron, but he published a piece in his newsletter saying that it was true. Of course, in the 20 years since the Treasury still hasn't implemented its secret plan. Maybe it's just waiting until it has enough black helicopters to confiscate all the guns at the same time.

Anyway, it seems that Ron is still on the same kick.

Here is a link to the solicitation in which he claims "new money" is coming and you need to be prepared (pdf file):

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/11/1 ... ation2.pdf

[KneelandBobDylan]

I like some things about Ron Paul, but all the other bat shit crazy things he believes supercedes that like.

[Rev. Johnny Tyler]

I like some things about Ron Paul, but all the other bat shit crazy things he believes supercedes that like.

t's the batshit crazy stuff that I like. I want to be entertained. It's the batshit crazy stuff that shakes things up a bit.

[EvilRockPosh]

I've been reading those newsletters and it's fucking hilarious that anyone would vote for this nut.

[Dr J Jones]

And it's equally crazy for anyone to vote for Obama, Gingrinch,Romney, Santorum, Bachman, Perry....


We're so fucked....

This country continues to do the same failed shit over and over and expects a different result..that is REALLY crazy..

The sooner all the liberals and war mongers realize that we are broke and can't feed their addictions anymore the better off we'll be..until then..keep sucking the country dry...

[Dr J Jones]

Our failed foreign policy put to music...


http://youtu.be/LZ7Hz7WCQE8

[Cyd]

He's SO OLD. It's way too early to worry about it, but voters would REALLY care who he picked for a running mate.

[Roody]

I don't mind him, but his foreign policy ideals aren't mainstream ideals and that will ultimately kill his candidancy.

[DEATH ROW JOE]

He's SO OLD. It's way too early to worry about it, but voters would REALLY care who he picked for a running mate.

Here's a list of 7 possible running mates. Got this from a Ron Paul 2012 website. These are some good old boys:

1. Chuck Baldwin

Chuck Baldwin is a neo-Confederate New World Order conspiracy theorist who praises the confederacy and its leaders, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and calls the Civil War the “War of Northern Aggression.” Baldwin writes a weekly column on the white supremacist site Vdare and is a proud supporter of American militia movements. Baldwin is also an Islamaphobe and homophobe.

Not only did Baldwin endorse Paul for president in 2007, but Paul returned the favor, endorsing Baldwin, who he calls his “friend,” for president in 2008.



2. Willis Carto

Willis Carto is a holocaust denier, Hitler admirer and a white supremacist. A former campaigner for segregationist candidate George Wallace, Carto founded the National Alliance with William Pierce, the author of the “Turner Diaries,” which is credited for inspiring Timothy McVeigh. Carto founded the Populist Party in 1984 and ran David Duke as a presidential candidate. Carto also founded the American Free Press, which is labeled as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), where Paul’s column runs.



3. William Alexander “Bill” White

Bill White is a neo-Nazi who is a former member of of the neo-Nazi group the National Socialist Movement and founder of his own Nazi group, the National Socialist Worker’s Movement. He has called for the lynching of the Jena 6 and the assassination of NAACP leaders. White previously campaigned for Pat Buchanan and the Reform party. This year, White was convicted of threatening a juror but then freed by a judge who called the threats free speech.



4. Don Black

Don Black is a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, a current member of the American Nazi Party, and the owner and operator of the white supremacist site Stormfront. Black regularly organizes “money bombs” for Ron and Rand Paul and has even taken a picture with Ron Paul, who refused to return donations from Black and Stormfront even with the political tradition of not accepting donations from people who seem unfit. Black, who was sentenced to three years in jail for trying to overthrow the Caribbean country of Dominica in 1981, supports Paul through his Twitter account and on message boards for Stormfront.



5. Thomas DiLorenzo

Thomas DiLorenzo is another neo-Confederate who believes the South was right in the the civil war and that Abraham Lincoln was a wicked man who destroyed states’ rights. DiLorenzo is listed as an affiliated scholar with the racist League of the South, which promotes segregation and a new southern secession. Paul invited DiLorenzo to testify before congress about the Federal Reserve and is close friends with Paul and works for the Ludwig Von Mises Instiute. Paul cited DiLorezno’s book when telling Tim Russert that the North should not have fought the Civil War.



6. David Duke

David Duke is a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and candidate for Governor of Louisiana. Duke is also a New World Order conspiracy theorist who believes that Jews control the Federal Reserve. On his website, Duke proudly boasts about the endorsements and kind words that Paul gave him in his newsletters and in turn endorses Paul for president.



7. Lew Rockwell

Lew Rockwell is a close friend and adviser of Paul’s who served as his congressional chief of staff between 1978 and 1982, worked as a paid consultant for Paul for more than 20 years, and was an editor and alleged ghost writer for his racist newsletters. Rockwell formed the Ludwig Von Mises Institute, which Paul still has a close working relationship with.

The Ludwig Von Mises Institute is listed by the SPLC as a neo-Confederate organization. They also add that Rockwell said that the Civil War “transformed the American regime from a federalist system based on freedom to a centralized state that circumscribed liberty in the name of public order” and that the Civil Rights Movement was the “involuntary servitude” of (presumably white) business owners. Rockwell was listed as one of the racist League of the South’s founding members but denies membership. Rockwell regularly posts articles on his website, attacking a New World Order conspiracy.

[Dr J Jones]

LET'S VOTE FOR MORE OF THIS!!!!

http://youtu.be/LZ7Hz7WCQE8


GO USA!