Republican Party Says No to Same-Sex Marriage

[Luminiferous]

The Republican National Committee voted unanimously Friday to reaffirm the party’s commitment to upholding the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman, upending party efforts to grow support among younger voters.

A resolution introduced Wednesday by Michigan committeeman Dave Agema, who came under fire last month for posting an article describing gays as “filthy” on his Facebook page, passed the full RNC by a voice vote and without debate. A second resolution reaffirming “core values” of the party — including opposition to same-sex marriage — was also passed.

RNC officials collected the resolutions, which were opposed privately by some committee members, together with a resolution honoring Ron Paul and another calling for a sustained investment in the U.S. space program — an effort to avoid debate on the floor.

The very fact that the vote took place was seen by some Republicans as flying in the face of one recommendation in the RNC’s Growth and Opportunity Project report.

(MORE: Why An American Male Pro Athlete Will Soon Come Out)

“There is a generational difference within the conservative movement about issues involving the treatment and the rights of gays — and for many younger voters, these issues are a gateway into whether the Party is a place they want to be,” the report stated. ”If our Party is not welcoming and inclusive, young people and increasingly other voters will continue to tune us out.”

http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/12/re ... pt=hp_bn18

Here is the full text of the RNC resolutions:

RESOLUTION SUPPORTING CORE VALUES OF THE 2012 REPUBLICAN PLATFORM

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform states, “our rights come from God, are protected by government, and that the only just government is one that truly governs with the consent of the governed,” (Preamble, p. i); and

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform state, “Faithful to the ‘self-evident’ truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to the unborn children.” (We The People: A Restoration of the Constitution, p. 13-14); and

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform states, “We uphold the right of individuals to keep and bear arms, a right which antedated the Constitution and was solemnly confirmed by the Second Amendment (We The People: A Restoration of Constitutional Government, p. 13); and

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform states, “We believe that marriage, the union of one man and one woman must be upheld as the national standard, a goal to stand for, encourage, and promote through laws governing marriage,” and “We embrace the principle that all Americans should be treated with respect and dignity,” (Renewing American Values to Build Healthy Families, Great Schools and Safe Neighborhoods, p. 31); and

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform states, “The greatest asset of the American economy is the American worker,” and “Just as immigrant labor helped build our country in the past, today’s legal immigrants are making vital contributions in every aspect of our national life,” and “Their industry and commitment to American values strengthens our economy, enriches our culture, and enables us to better understand and more effectively compete with the rest of the world; and

Whereas, the 2012 Republican Platform further states, “Illegal immigration undermines those benefits and affects U.S. workers. In an age of terrorism, drug cartels, human trafficking, and criminal gangs, the presence of millions of unidentified persons in this country poses grave risks to the safety and the sovereignty of the United States,” and “Our highest priority, therefore, is to secure the rule of law both at our borders and at ports of entry,” (Reforming Government to Serve the People, p. 25); therefore be it

Resolved, the Republican National Committee reaffirms our commitment to the core values of the Republican Party as stated in the 2012 Republican Platform approved by the delegates to the Republican National Convention on August 28, 2012.

RESOLUTION FOR MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN 2013

Whereas, the institution of marriage is the solid foundation upon which our society is built and in which children thrive; it is based on the relationship that only a man and a woman can form; and

Whereas, support for marriage has been repeatedly affirmed nationally in the 2012 Republican National Platform, through the enactment of the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, (signed into law by President Bill Clinton), and passed by the voters of 41 States including California via Proposition 8 in 2008; and

Whereas, no Act of human government can change the reality that marriage is a natural and most desirable union; especially when procreation is a goal; and

Whereas, the future of our country is children; it has been proven repeatedly that the most secure and nurturing environment in which to raise healthy well adjusted children is in a home where both mother and father are bound together in a loving marriage; and

Whereas, The U. S. Supreme Court is considering the constitutionality of laws adopted to protect marriage from the unfounded accusation that support for marriage is based only on irrational prejudice against homosexuals; therefore be it

Resolved, the Republican National Committee affirms its support for marriage as the union of one man and one woman, and as the optimum environment in which to raise healthy children for the future of America; and be it further

Resolved, the Republican National Committee implores the U. S. Supreme Court to uphold the sanctity of marriage in its rulings on California’s Proposition 8 and the Federal Defense of Marriage Act.

[Luminiferous]

Thetruthteller- 1 hour ago

Let me be a prophet today. Let me envisage now what must henceforth be, exactly one thousand three hundred and four days from today, on the grand occasion of the electing by general (albeit indirect) suffrage of the next President of the United States of America, a Republican President. For this must needs come to pass, regardless of the remonstrances of an increasingly-diffuse political bloc of liberal activists and sycophants, bent on undermining the founding principles of the Great Republic. This victory of Republicanism is not only assured, but of the utmost exigency. For the threat of war, apocalyptic war, looms menacing from afar, as the heathen hordes beat their plowshares into swords and pruning hooks into spears.

Will that foundational institution that is the modern family be allowed to erode beyond recognition by a Democratic Party and its hanger-ons? This same political entity, bowing to pressures born of runaway populist fervor, has become the Party of Everything, and thus, of pluralism for its own sake. But that is precisely what threatens the future of the Family, an ideally-stable, self-perpetuating aggregation characterized by the nexus of one man, one woman, and their offspring. As goes the family in any State, so goes that State's most basic institutions, with a concomitant effect on the national health: a strong family makes for a strong nation, a point seemingly lost on the Liberal interest groups which push recklessly for selfish and family-diluting privileges masquerading as "rights".

A strong and renewed Republican Party will retake the reins of government in a little over three-and-a-half years from this moment, and as to be expected, the Liberal champions of reckless change will wax ever more shrill in the interim. But these advocates of "change" will find her a fickle mistress indeed. But alea iacta est - the die has been cast. The forces of Reason that will save the Republic from toxic immoderation are preparing at this very moment to lead the nation once again, tempered and inspired by those ringing words handed down by the first Republican President himself: "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right... Those words are no less timely today.

[Stoner]

This should help them in the next election, since they clearly weren't conservative enough last time.

[KneelandBobDylan]

Bobby Jindal is right. They are indeed the stupid party.

[RATTdrools]

Bobby Jindal is right. They are indeed the stupid party.

Not only that they just signed their death sentence. 58% of the nation favors gay marriage and over 70% of the youth does! Hillary is gonna look great as the 1st female president!

[Luminiferous]

Republicans Say GOP Needs Revamp After Romney Defeat

WASHINGTON, Nov 18 (Reuters) - The Republican Party needs to stop insulting voters and broaden its appeal after Democratic President Barack Obama won re-election this month over Mitt Romney with overwhelming support from Hispanics, blacks and single women, top Republicans said on Sunday.

Comments made by two leading Republican governors and an influential U.S. senator on Sunday reflected the soul-searching taking place in the party after Obama's victory over Republican challenger Romney on Nov. 6.

"If we want people to like us, we have to like them first. And you don't start to like people by insulting them and saying their votes were bought," Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, chairman of the Republican Governors Association, told the "Fox News Sunday" program.

Jindal and some other Republicans rejected Romney's remarks last week blaming his election loss on what he called an Obama strategy of giving "gifts" to blacks, Hispanics and young voters - groups instrumental to his re-election victory.

These "gifts" cited by Romney included passage of Obama's signature healthcare law, support for contraceptive coverage in medical insurance, and a policy change relaxing U.S. deportation rules so that many young illegal immigrants who came to the United States as children can stay in the country and work.

Romney's remarks were made in a telephone call to supporters that news organizations heard.

"We are in a big hole," Republican Senator Lindsey Graham told NBC's "Meet the Press" program. "We are not getting out of it by comments like that (by Romney). When you're in a hole, stop digging. He keeps digging."

'DEATH SPIRAL'

Graham, who has taken part in a bipartisan effort to fashion immigration reform legislation, said the Republican Party is "in a death spiral with Hispanic voters."

Republicans in recent years have taken a hard line against the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States, most of whom are Hispanic. During the campaign, Romney called for "self-deportation" of illegal immigrants.

Obama also was able to score points during the campaign by criticizing congressional Republican refusal to support higher taxes on the wealthiest Americans as part of a deficit-cutting plan. During the campaign, Romney was caught on videotape saying that 47 percent of Americans are "victims" who depend on government and do not pay federal income taxes.

Graham said that most Americans who receive public assistance do not have a character flaw but may have a tough life. He said the focus should be on how to create more jobs, not demonize people who find themselves having hard times.

Jindal said: "We need to make it very clear - we're not the party trying to protect the rich. They can protect themselves. We are the party that wants growth, pro-growth policies."

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, vice chairman of the Republican Governors Association, also called for a more inclusive message from Republicans.

"We've got a message that works for young people, that works for people who come to our country from other countries, and basically for anyone who wants to live their piece of the American dream," Walker told "Fox News Sunday."

"We have to show that we are serious about reaching out and helping everyone, not just a group here, not just a group there," Walker added.

Asked about why about two-thirds of unmarried women voters flocked to Obama, Jindal alluded to comments by Republican senate candidates in Indiana and Missouri who called pregnancy from rape something God intended and that women's bodies can ward off pregnancy after "legitimate rape."

Jindal, who opposes abortion, said: "I'm pro-life. I follow the teachings of my church and my faith." But he said Republicans should respect people who disagree on abortion.

"We don't need to demonize - and we also don't need to be saying stupid things," Jindal added.

[RATTdrools]

LOL...and Jindal's popularity has taken a nosedive! Even the Repukes don't like him!

[Skate4RnR]

This should help them in the next election, since they clearly weren't conservative enough last time.

Trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I love it!

[eddie lee roth]

This should help them in the next election, since they clearly weren't conservative enough last time.

Trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I love it!

That term is used a lot in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, its good to see that the republicans game plan for the next presidential election mirrors that of a drunk who is messing up his life by continuing to get drunk.

[Sheep_Mafia]

That term is used a lot in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, its good to see that the republicans game plan for the next presidential election mirrors that of a drunk who is messing up his life by continuing to get drunk.[/b][/color]

Hopefully the GOP doesn't allow issues like gay marriage to enter into the discussion in the next elections. It will of course, partly because of their own stupidity, and partly because the liberal media and liberal politicians like to drag in issues like gay marriage and abortion to get folk scared when it's just not currently of any importance. The GOP of course does that as well to pander to their base but not in the same context.

This country has so many structural issues both socially and economically but all the focus is on things like gun control, immigration, gay marriage and at election time abortion. The first two of those issues play into the structural problems we are facing but not in the way that the media plays it up. It just baffles the mind how easily some folk allow their focus to be averted from the real deal issues.

[David_Lee_Halen]

That term is used a lot in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, its good to see that the republicans game plan for the next presidential election mirrors that of a drunk who is messing up his life by continuing to get drunk.[/b][/color]

Hopefully the GOP doesn't allow issues like gay marriage to enter into the discussion in the next elections. It will of course, partly because of their own stupidity, and partly because the liberal media and liberal politicians like to drag in issues like gay marriage and abortion to get folk scared when it's just not currently of any importance.

That's kinda funny considering that they'll be asked that over and over to reaffirm why most people shouldn't vote for them. The "not currently of any importance" may not be important to you, but it will be important to every voter who isn't a full heterosexual, along with anybody who thinks that gays have the right to marry. Along with that, every man and woman that is pro-choice, and again, the Republican's don't have any shot at taking the White house back until they decide to go along with those 2 issues. They're gonna be fucked for a long time, and I think it's a good thing.

[Sheep_Mafia]

That's kinda funny considering that they'll be asked that over and over to reaffirm why most people shouldn't vote for them. The "not currently of any importance" may not be important to you, but it will be important to every voter who isn't a full heterosexual, along with anybody who thinks that gays have the right to marry. Along with that, every man and woman that is pro-choice, and again, the Republican's don't have any shot at taking the White house back until they decide to go along with those 2 issues. They're gonna be fucked for a long time, and I think it's a good thing.

With a new normal high rate of unemployment, sluggish growth at best, rising debt that's already past unsustainable, crime, poverty, healthcare (Obamacare problems, future of Medicare/Medicaid), social security reform, terrorism risks, the global economic crisis, tax reform and a host of other economic and social issues staring us in the face, I'm just not concerned about issues like gay marriage that are really for the courts and in some cases voters to decide at this point.

You though, are exhibit A of what's wrong with the system. You fall for the issues that pale in comparison to the importance of the real problems that we currently face and allow yourself to be manipulated by a politician siding with you on said side show issue. Gay marriage, even to those that are gay, should not rise up to the importance of those other issues at this point. Choosing a political candidate based on a singular issue like that is less than adequate.

As far as the upcoming elections, we'll see but those liberals who continue to flaunt arrogance about the future of the GOP are really showing ignorance to where a great many stand on these issues not to mention the fact that at some point, most people will start to agree with me that those things don't matter when looking at the realities of the other issues I mentioned.

[David_Lee_Halen]

That's kinda funny considering that they'll be asked that over and over to reaffirm why most people shouldn't vote for them. The "not currently of any importance" may not be important to you, but it will be important to every voter who isn't a full heterosexual, along with anybody who thinks that gays have the right to marry. Along with that, every man and woman that is pro-choice, and again, the Republican's don't have any shot at taking the White house back until they decide to go along with those 2 issues. They're gonna be fucked for a long time, and I think it's a good thing.

With a new normal high rate of unemployment, sluggish growth at best, rising debt that's already past unsustainable, crime, poverty, healthcare (Obamacare problems, future of Medicare/Medicaid), social security reform, terrorism risks, the global economic crisis, tax reform and a host of other economic and social issues staring us in the face, I'm just not concerned about issues like gay marriage that are really for the courts and in some cases voters to decide at this point.

You though, are exhibit A of what's wrong with the system. You fall for the issues that pale in comparison to the importance of the real problems that we currently face and allow yourself to be manipulated by a politician siding with you on said side show issue. Gay marriage, even to those that are gay, should not rise up to the importance of those other issues at this point. Choosing a political candidate based on a singular issue like that is less than adequate.

As far as the upcoming elections, we'll see but those liberals who continue to flaunt arrogance about the future of the GOP are really showing ignorance to where a great many stand on these issues not to mention the fact that at some point, most people will start to agree with me that those things don't matter when looking at the realities of the other issues I mentioned.

Since I'm not gay and won't need an abortion anytime soon, I personally don't give much of a fuck about these issues aside from being pro-choice and for gay marriage. Th Republican party not allowing these rights show how self righteous and bigoted their party is.

As far as all of those other issues that you say are staring us in the face, all of those problems have been staring us in the face long before Obama stepped in office. Few of them are gonna go away in 2 Presidential terms either. It sounds like you just always need to hate somebody to be happy.

[Sheep_Mafia]

Since I'm not gay and won't need an abortion anytime soon, I personally don't give much of a fuck about these issues aside from being pro-choice and for gay marriage. Th Republican party not allowing these rights show how self righteous and bigoted their party is.

As far as all of those other issues that you say are staring us in the face, all of those problems have been staring us in the face long before Obama stepped in office. Few of them are gonna go away in 2 Presidential terms either. It sounds like you just always need to hate somebody to be happy.

I don't think someone being pro-life means they either self righteous nor bigoted. Why do you hate someone else has a different view? I wouldn't condemn either side for their abortion views for the most part (except those that are cavalier about it, and they are out there) and certainly wouldn't vote on that singular issue. We've had a number of GOP Presidents since Roe v Wade and abortion is still legal so its overblown at best anyway.

All of those issues I mentioned are just getting worse on balance and much of that has to do with voters like you who focus on the wrong things and support not holding our elected officials accountable (unless of course its those in the party you don't support). People wonder why government is beholden to special interests, its in large part due to people like you who get caught up in those issues at the expense of the real ones. On the real issues, when its pointed out that just maybe we should start paying more attention to those type issues, you take the position that it's not your candidates fault and that's just not impressive logic.

[David_Lee_Halen]

Since I'm not gay and won't need an abortion anytime soon, I personally don't give much of a fuck about these issues aside from being pro-choice and for gay marriage. Th Republican party not allowing these rights show how self righteous and bigoted their party is.

As far as all of those other issues that you say are staring us in the face, all of those problems have been staring us in the face long before Obama stepped in office. Few of them are gonna go away in 2 Presidential terms either. It sounds like you just always need to hate somebody to be happy.

I don't think someone being pro-life means they either self righteous nor bigoted. Why do you hate someone else has a different view? I wouldn't condemn either side for their abortion views for the most part (except those that are cavalier about it, and they are out there) and certainly wouldn't vote on that singular issue. We've had a number of GOP Presidents since Roe v Wade and abortion is still legal so its overblown at best anyway.

All of those issues I mentioned are just getting worse on balance and much of that has to do with voters like you who focus on the wrong things and support not holding our elected officials accountable (unless of course its those in the party you don't support). People wonder why government is beholden to special interests, its in large part due to people like you who get caught up in those issues at the expense of the real ones. On the real issues, when its pointed out that just maybe we should start paying more attention to those type issues, you take the position that it's not your candidates fault and that's just not impressive logic.

How the fuck do you know I voted that way because of those 2 issues? I didn't even reveal the reasons why I voted for Obama, and those 2 issues had very little to do with it. You don't even know what issues I focused on.

Being against Gay marriage is being bigoted, and being Pro-life is being self righteous. Glad I could clear that up for you.

[Sheep_Mafia]

How the fuck do you know I voted that way because of those 2 issues? I didn't even reveal the reasons why I voted for Obama, and those 2 issues had very little to do with it. You don't even know what issues I focused on.

Being against Gay marriage is being bigoted, and being Pro-life is being self righteous. Glad I could clear that up for you.

I don't see that a big reveal as to why you voted for Obama is needed as the reason is clear from just posts-strictly party affiliation. You've been astonishingly direct that you aren't about to hold the person you voted for President of the United States accountable for anything so why would you vote any other way? That logic is why a great many people are concerned about this countries future.

Pro-life is not self righteous but condemning those who don't think the way you do is. So if the Supreme Court shoots down gay marriage, will you say the reason for that would be they are bigots?

[Luminiferous]

Pro-life is not self righteous but condemning those who don't think the way you do is.

Most pro-lifers condemn pro-choice supporters as baby killers and murderers.. They consider themselves morally superior to those who do not support their pro-life views..

I'd call that pretty self righteous..

[eddie lee roth]

Hopefully the GOP doesn't allow issues like gay marriage to enter into the discussion in the next elections. It will of course, partly because of their own stupidity, and partly because the liberal media and liberal politicians like to drag in issues like gay marriage and abortion to get folk scared when it's just not currently of any importance. The GOP of course does that as well to pander to their base but not in the same context.

Not in the same context, that's a load of shit, I remember George W bringing up that shit in 04, and it had a lot to do with him being re elected, remember Willie Horton from the 88 election cycle and how they used him to scare people I'm sure it was just convenient that he happened to be black, and every last one of the presidential contenders said they were against abortion meanwhile knowing full well that nothing was going to change.

Oh yeah let's not forget W's dirty handed tatics of attacking John Kerry and his military record, John was actually in the war while W was back here in the guard having no worries about being sent over there.

[Stoner]

LOL @ "hopefully they won't allow it to enter the discussion".

Come the fuck on - people will still know their stance and will still give a shit about social issues enough to vote for them, no matter how big and fancy the rug is that the GOP attempts to sweep it under.

Face it - among other names, the GOP has been branded The Party of Exclusion, and the majority of the country just isn't on board with that. Until they get that shit under control, nobody will give a shit about anything else they have to say, economically or otherwise.

There is an old saying in medicine that says "People don't care how much you know unless they know how much you care" - trite to be sure, but until the GOP can be more inclusive (RE: appear more inclusive), people aren't going to be interested in any of their ideas.

If marriage equality and abortion are just a liberal smokescreen, why are conservatives fighting so hard against them? If they would just get on board, we could stop talking about them and get on to other topics of importance. The real impediment in this process are those trying to stop it, not those trying to facilitate it. Using your logic, the dead deer in the road isn't causing the traffic jam, the drivers are.

[Sheep_Mafia]

LOL @ "hopefully they won't allow it to enter the discussion".

Come the fuck on - people will still know their stance and will still give a shit about social issues enough to vote for them, no matter how big and fancy the rug is that the GOP attempts to sweep it under.

Face it - among other names, the GOP has been branded The Party of Exclusion, and the majority of the country just isn't on board with that. Until they get that shit under control, nobody will give a shit about anything else they have to say, economically or otherwise.

There is an old saying in medicine that says "People don't care how much you know unless they know how much you care" - trite to be sure, but until the GOP can be more inclusive (RE: appear more inclusive), people aren't going to be interested in any of their ideas.

If marriage equality and abortion are just a liberal smokescreen, why are conservatives fighting so hard against them? If they would just get on board, we could stop talking about them and get on to other topics of importance. The real impediment in this process are those trying to stop it, not those trying to facilitate it. Using your logic, the dead deer in the road isn't causing the traffic jam, the drivers are.

I think the demise of the GOP is greatly exaggerated. I find the marriage equality issue a losing one for them and one without political relevance. As far as things like abortion, gun control and illegal immigration, a great many of the population believe as they do to some extent. They are still winning Congressional seats, governorships, local and state elections and as far as the White House, it's not easy to beat an incumbent in any election, especially not one like Obama who came in with enormous popularity with all his hope and change bullshit that has led to exactly nowhere.

Abortion is not some issue like coke or pepsi. It matters deeply to many on both sides, (though in our society the previous mentioned issue sadly matters more to some) and I don't find it about being inclusive to abandon one's principles to win elections. Why have we become so small minded in this country that people won't vote for someone because they don't support abortion for example? I'm not talking about the idiots like Todd Akin with his willing rape comments or whatever, but if someone truely believes abortion wrong and stands by that what is wrong with the voter who chooses the lesser overall candidate based on that? I disagree with the GOP and the people I vote for often on social and economic issues and can't find the logic in pulling out a couple issues that they ultimately have little to do with anyway and making that the reason I vote.

All I am saying is these are largely unimportant issues when in comparison to debt vs. GDP standing at 105%, pathetic unemployment rates and the vast other issues out there. Joe Biden can come out and tell black folk that "they gonna put ya"ll back in chains" and the liberal machine can have women thinking that the moment Mitt Romney wins the election they are going to have to immediately quit their jobs and go back to the back alley for abortions but that's not going to work all the time.

I was going to say that I wish they would conclude all these social issues so that they are no longer election issues, but abortion as the example, has been settled for decades and still gets brought front and center with nearly every election on every level. It will be the same way with these other issues and as you say, people will still know how they feel, so why bother giving up your principles?

[Constantine]

Pro-life is not self righteous but condemning those who don't think the way you do is.

Most pro-lifers condemn pro-choice supporters as baby killers and murderers.. They consider themselves morally superior to those who do not support their pro-life views..

I'd call that pretty self righteous..

Well they call them baby killers because they kill babies. You just havent figured it out because youve been indoctrinated by all the free KoolAid.

[Luminiferous]

I know you're fucking stupid, but everyone else in this thread knows I'm referring to the general public in speaking of Pro-Choice supporters vs Pro-Lifer supporters..

Pro Lifers not only refer to the doctors who perform abortions as baby killers, but also those who support a woman's right to choose..

But thanks for clarifying the self righteous label I spoke of, Spedtard. Now fuck off back to your America hating thread..

[KneelandBobDylan]

Pro-life is not self righteous but condemning those who don't think the way you do is.

Most pro-lifers condemn pro-choice supporters as baby killers and murderers.. They consider themselves morally superior to those who do not support their pro-life views..

I'd call that pretty self righteous..

Well they call them baby killers because they kill babies. You just havent figured it out because youve been indoctrinated by all the free KoolAid.

No, you fucking retard, they destroy cytoplasts that have the potential to be babies. Enjoy your Kool-Aid.

[KneelandBobDylan]

I think the demise of the GOP is greatly exaggerated. I find the marriage equality issue a losing one for them and one without political relevance. As far as things like abortion, gun control and illegal immigration, a great many of the population believe as they do to some extent. They are still winning Congressional seats, governorships, local and state elections and as far as the White House, it's not easy to beat an incumbent in any election, especially not one like Obama who came in with enormous popularity with all his hope and change bullshit that has led to exactly nowhere.

Abortion is not some issue like coke or pepsi. It matters deeply to many on both sides, (though in our society the previous mentioned issue sadly matters more to some) and I don't find it about being inclusive to abandon one's principles to win elections. Why have we become so small minded in this country that people won't vote for someone because they don't support abortion for example? I'm not talking about the idiots like Todd Akin with his willing rape comments or whatever, but if someone truely believes abortion wrong and stands by that what is wrong with the voter who chooses the lesser overall candidate based on that? I disagree with the GOP and the people I vote for often on social and economic issues and can't find the logic in pulling out a couple issues that they ultimately have little to do with anyway and making that the reason I vote.

All I am saying is these are largely unimportant issues when in comparison to debt vs. GDP standing at 105%, pathetic unemployment rates and the vast other issues out there. Joe Biden can come out and tell black folk that "they gonna put ya"ll back in chains" and the liberal machine can have women thinking that the moment Mitt Romney wins the election they are going to have to immediately quit their jobs and go back to the back alley for abortions but that's not going to work all the time.

I was going to say that I wish they would conclude all these social issues so that they are no longer election issues, but abortion as the example, has been settled for decades and still gets brought front and center with nearly every election on every level. It will be the same way with these other issues and as you say, people will still know how they feel, so why bother giving up your principles?

Why is it that the "Freedom Lovers" who don't want the government in anyone's business make an exception in the case of abortion? If they (you) truly valued freedom the way you say you do, you'd think to yourself, "Man, I really hate abortion, so if I ever get pregnant I'll never get one, and that would be it.

















Seriously, that would be it.

Now, I know you say you're a guy, so you should have even less to say on the subject, but you seem to think you're so much more enlightened that those of us that think a woman has a right to do what she thinks is best for herself.

As I've said before, and I'll say until my dying day, If men could get pregnant abortion would be available in any 7-11 on demand, even at 3:00am on a Sunday morning.

[Sheep_Mafia]

Why is it that the "Freedom Lovers" who don't want the government in anyone's business make an exception in the case of abortion? If they (you) truly valued freedom the way you say you do, you'd think to yourself, "Man, I really hate abortion, so if I ever get pregnant I'll never get one, and that would be it.
Seriously, that would be it.

Now, I know you say you're a guy, so you should have even less to say on the subject, but you seem to think you're so much more enlightened that those of us that think a woman has a right to do what she thinks is best for herself.

As I've said before, and I'll say until my dying day, If men could get pregnant abortion would be available in any 7-11 on demand, even at 3:00am on a Sunday morning.

Now point out the quote in here where I've given my position on abortion or a woman's right to choose...I haven't...

My opinion on abortion here on Sludge is the same as it would be if I was running for Congress--irrelevant. The issue has long since been decided. The law is in place and that law as per the Supreme Court of the United States says a woman has a right to choose. With that, I'm not fond of the process that continually makes issues that are already resolved central in important elections. Again folks, debt to GDP is 105%. We have cities in decay and 15% of the population is on food stamps. I don't know why we can't agree that those are the things our elected officials should be worrying about right now.

[HeavyMetalZombie666]

THe left doesn't realize a politician can't overturn Roe Vs. Wade just like that. In order to do so an attorney representing a plaintive and using some form reasoning has to bring a case to the supreme court for a case to be heard and you have to have a court that leans conservative on this issue. Right now the court consists of 4 conservatives, 4 liberals and 1 centrist/moderate. Unless one of the liberal justices retire during a conservative administration and whoever puts someone based totally on their beliefs I don't see Roe Vs. Wade overturned. Most law offices don't even want to touch the case with a stick.

[Luminiferous]

The right doesn't realize that giving gays/lesbians the same rights as straight people have is not going to make people automatically switch teams and turn gay either..

The right also doesn't realize that the President or the government is NEVER going to take their guns away from them, but it doesn't stop them from stirring the gun nut masses into believing they're endanger of it everyday..

The right also want you to believe that same sex relationships/marriage are evil and go against God's word and should never be allowed, but yet have no problem with people not obeying other parts of "God's written word"...

[Skate4RnR]

Our forefathers used the word "God" was an accident. They meant to be much more specific but they forgot.

[Constantine]

I know you're fucking stupid, but everyone else in this thread knows I'm referring to the general public in speaking of Pro-Choice supporters vs Pro-Lifer supporters..

Pro Lifers not only refer to the doctors who perform abortions as baby killers, but also those who support a woman's right to choose..

But thanks for clarifying the self righteous label I spoke of, Spedtard. Now fuck off back to your America hating thread..

Ur a gay wedding loving abortionist, not me. Have a nice day you fucking brainwashed freak!

[Turner Coates]

Ur a gay wedding loving abortionist, not me. Have a nice day you fucking brainwashed freak!

Is it true that people in France can marry their cheese?