NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

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Danzig in the Dark
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Stoner wrote:
So basically you're saying "I vote"? :lol:

Not sure where I've defended anything here, but to answer your question I've posted extensively about my own political activism (Steubenville, political rallies, Occupy Cincinnati, etc), job (social work), and voter registration outreach. I also teach Grassroots Leadership and Development courses.

Honestly, if this issue means that much to you, you have to find other way s to be involved or you're basically just spinning your wheels.
He's not even saying that.
Dr J Jones wrote: I couldn't vote for either.
Dr J Jones wrote:I'll have to settle for the Status Quo for now.
He just pisses and moans online that none of us is doing anything to fix the problem for him.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

:lol:

Of course you won't answer my direct questions....You like the fact that Barack let the bankers off the hook...but you wanna crucify a guy that discloses the governments "secrets" :lol:
And, even if you didn't like the fact the Barack and Holder let the bankers skate...you would NEVER say anything! That would be liberal blasphemy. :lol:


You guys keep on deflecting and defending. That is Liberalism 101 there. In fact..you all should write to MSNBC and tell them to change he name of the Rachel Maddow show to "Deflect and Defend with Rachel Maddow."

As I said earlier. The whole thing amuses me.
I can't wait to see what happens next

:lol: :lol:

Bush and Barack
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Turner Coates »

Dr J Jones wrote:

I can't wait to see what happens next
"Wait"...and "see".
Yeah....that sounds VERY proactive.........NOT.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by DEATH ROW JOE »

Dr J Jones wrote:You like the fact that Barack let the bankers off the hook...but you wanna crucify a guy that discloses the governments "secrets" :lol:
They did not let the bankers off the hook. They prosecuted them to the full extent of the law. Problem is the law allows bankers to steal. You can thank libertarians for influencing financial regulations the past 30 years. Deregulation allowed the shadow banking system to develop.

Milton Friedman the Harm of Regulation
http://youtu.be/l9BLh7SVW2Y

Milton Friedman: Product Safety Regulations Hurt Small Businesses
http://youtu.be/vfgqDYutFaY

Shadow banking system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system
The core activities of investment banks are subject to regulation and monitoring by central banks and other government institutions -but it has been common pr actice for investment banks to conduct many of their transactions in ways that don't show up on their conventional balance sheet accounting and so are not visible to regulators or unsophisticated investors

Dr J Jones wrote: And, even if you didn't like the fact the Barack and Holder let the bankers skate...you would NEVER say anything! That would be liberal blasphemy. :lol:
Banks were not let off the hook. Banks were prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Stop lying.

Goldman Sachs handed record $550m fine over Abacus transaction
Thursday 15 July 2010
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... bacus-fine
Dr J Jones wrote:You guys keep on deflecting and defending.
Nobody is deflecting. You are a liar. You are lying while complaining about lying.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Dr J Jones wrote::lol:

Of course you won't answer my direct questions....You like the fact that Barack let the bankers off the hook...but you wanna crucify a guy that discloses the governments "secrets" :lol:
And, even if you didn't like the fact the Barack and Holder let the bankers skate...you would NEVER say anything! That would be liberal blasphemy. :lol:


You guys keep on deflecting and defending. That is Liberalism 101 there. In fact..you all should write to MSNBC and tell them to change he name of the Rachel Maddow show to "Deflect and Defend with Rachel Maddow."

As I said earlier. The whole thing amuses me.
I can't wait to see what happens next

:lol: :lol:

Bush and Barack
I'm not sure to whom you directed your questions but I do believe DRJ answered your skating bankers question thoroughly so I don't feel a need to reinvent that wheel but I would like you point out which Sludgers have called for Snowden's metaphorical crucifixion. Please include relevant quotes.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

Oh...you're fucking deflecting alright.... :lol:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall ... ted-2013-1


PBS' Frontline program on Tuesday night broadcast a new one-hour report on one of the greatest and most shameful failings of the Obama administration: the lack of even a single arrest or prosecution of any senior Wall Street banker for the systemic fraud that precipitated the 2008 financial crisis — a crisis from which millions of people around the world are still suffering.
What this program particularly demonstrated was that the Obama justice department, in particular the Chief of its Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer, never even tried to hold the high-level criminals accountable.
What Obama justice officials did instead is exactly what they did in the face of high-level Bush era crimes of torture and warrantless eavesdropping: Namely, acted to protect the most powerful factions in the society in the face of overwhelming evidence of serious criminality. Indeed, financial elites were not only vested with impunity for their fraud, but thrived as a result of it, even as ordinary Americans continue to suffer the effects of that crisis.
Worst of all, Obama justice officials both shielded and feted these Wall Street oligarchs (who, just by the way, overwhelmingly supported Obama's 2008 presidential campaign) as they simultaneously prosecuted and imprisoned powerless Americans for far more trivial transgressions.
As Harvard law professor Larry Lessig put it two weeks ago when expressing anger over the DOJ's persecution of Aaron Swartz: "we live in a world where the architects of the financial crisis regularly dine at the White House." (Indeed, as "The Untouchables" put it: While no senior Wall Street executives have been prosecuted, "many small mortgage brokers, loan appraisers and even home buyers" have been).
As I documented at length in my 2011 book on America's two-tiered justice system, "With Liberty and Justice for Some," the evidence that felonies were committed by Wall Street is overwhelming. That evidence directly negates the primary excuse by Breuer (previously offered by Obama himself) that the bad acts of Wall Street were not criminal.
Numerous documents prove that executives at leading banks, credit agencies, and mortgage brokers were falsely touting assets as sound that they knew were junk — the very definition of fraud.
As former Wall Street analyst Yves Smith wrote in her book "ECONned": "What went on at Lehman and AIG, as well as the chicanery in the CDO [collateralized debt obligation] business, by any sensible standard is criminal." Even lifelong Wall Street defender Alan Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve Chair, said in Congressional testimony that "a lot of that stuff was just plain fraud."
A New York Times editorial in August explained that the DOJ's excuse for failing to prosecute Wall Street executives — that it was too hard to obtain convictions — "has always defied common sense, and all the more so now that a fuller picture is emerging of the range of banks' reckless and lawless activities, including interest-rate rigging, money laundering, securities fraud and excessive speculation."
The Frontline program interviewed former prosecutors, Senate staffers and regulators who unequivocally said the same: It is inconceivable that the DOJ could not have successfully prosecuted at least some high-level Wall Street executives ... had they tried.
What's most remarkable about all of this is that not even Wall Street had the audacity to expect the generosity of largesse they ended up receiving. "The Untouchables" begins by recounting the massive financial devastation the 2008 crisis wrought: "The economy was in ruins and bankers were being blamed," and recounts:
"In 2009, Wall Street bankers were on the defensive, worried they could be held criminally liable for fraud. With a new administration, bankers and their attorneys expected investigations and at least some prosecutions."
Indeed, the show recalls that both in Washington and the country generally, "there was broad support for prosecuting Wall Street." Nonetheless, "four years later, there have been no arrests of any senior Wall Street executives."
In response to the DOJ's excuse-making that these criminal cases are too hard to win, numerous experts — Senators, top Hill staffers, former DOJ prosecutors — emphasized the key point: Obama officials never even tried. One of the heroes of "The Untouchables," former Democratic Sen. Ted Kaufman, worked tirelessly to provide the DOJ with all the funds it needed to ensure probing criminal investigations and even to pressure and compel them to do so.
Yet when he and his staff would meet with Breuer and other top DOJ officials, those officials would proudly tout the small mortgage brokers they were pursuing, in response to which Kaufman and his staff said: "No. Don't show me small-time mortgage guys in California. This is totally about what went on in Wall Street ... We are talking about investigating senior level Wall Street executives, even at the Board level." (The same Lanny Breuer was recently seen announcing that the banking giant HSBC would face no criminal prosecution for its money laundering of funds for designated terrorist groups and drug networks on the grounds that the bank was too big to risk prosecuting.)
As Kaufman and his staffers make clear, Obama officials were plainly uninterested in pursuing criminal accountability for Wall Street. One former staffer to both Biden and Kaufman, Jeff Connaughton, wrote a book in 2011 — "The Payoff: Why Wall Street Always Wins" — devoted to alerting the nation that the Obama DOJ refused even to try to find criminal culprits on Wall Street. In the book, this career-Democratic-aide-turned-whistleblower details how the levers of Washington power are used to shield and protect high-level Wall Street executives, many of whom have close ties to the leaders of both parties and themselves are former high-level government officials. This is a system, he makes clear, that is constituted to ensure that those executives never face real accountability even for their most egregious and destructive crimes.
The reason there have been no efforts made to criminally investigate is obvious. Former banking regulator and current securities Professor Bill Black told Bill Moyers in 2009 that "Timothy Geithner, the Secretary of the Treasury, and others in the administration, with the banks, are engaged in a cover up to keep us from knowing what went wrong."
In the documentary "Inside Job," when asked why there have been no such investigations, economist Nouriel Roubini replied: "Because then you'd find the culprits." Underlying all of that is what the Senate's second-highest ranking Democrat, Dick Durbin, admitted in 2009: The banks "frankly own the place."
The harms from this refusal to hold Wall Street accountable are the same generated by the general legal immunity the U.S. political culture has vested in its elites. Just as was true for the protection of torturers and illegal eavesdroppers, it ensures that there are no incentives to avoid similar crimes in the future.
It is an injustice in its own right to allow those with power and wealth to commit destructive crimes with impunity. It subverts democracy and warps the justice system when a person's treatment under the law is determined not by their acts but by their power, position, and prestige. And it exposes just how shameful is the American penal state by contrasting the immunity given to the nation's most powerful with the merciless and brutal punishment meted out to its most marginalized.
The real mystery from all of this is that it has not led to greater social unrest. To some extent, both the early version of the Tea Party and the Occupy movements were spurred by the government's protection of Wall Street at the expense of everyone else.
Still, Americans continue to be plagued by massive unemployment, foreclosures, the threat of austerity and economic insecurity while those who caused those problems have more power and profit than ever. And they watch millions of their fellow citizens be put in cages for relatively minor offenses while the most powerful are free to commit far more serious crimes with complete impunity. Far less injustice than this has spurred serious unrest in other societies.
[The one-hour Frontline program can be viewed in its entirety here.]

This article originally appeared on guardian.co.uk


So ...tell me again how they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... :lol:
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

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This sums it up well.

Bush and Barack = 16 years of fail!
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Dr J Jones wrote:Oh...you're fucking deflecting alright.... :lol:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall ... ted-2013-1


So ...tell me again how they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... :lol:
What they did was criminal. Unfortunately, it was not illegal.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

Danzig in the Dark wrote:
Dr J Jones wrote:Oh...you're fucking deflecting alright.... :lol:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall ... ted-2013-1


So ...tell me again how they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... :lol:
What they did was criminal. Unfortunately, it was not illegal.


If the federal government WANTS to bring you up on charges, they will make it happen. Don't fool yourself with the silly Criminal/Illegal mumbo jumbo.
Take the guy who made the "Highly Offensive" Islam video that caused the demonstration in Benghazi for instance... He pissed off Obama and the next thing you know..he's locked up for "probation violation"...Then of course Hillary declared "we got 'em" like she was Marshall Dillon or something(but that's another story entirely) :lol: idiots...


Back to the Criminals on Wall Street
Fraud, is Illegal. There is good reason to believe that massive fraud was committed. It's kinda obvious actually, but.... The banks own the government, they OWN it, so they skate with a few fines that add up to a drop in their bucket. And go back to business as usual.

I think George Carlin did a pretty good bit about it one time...it's all true. Sad, but true!


I sure hope our next president is better than these last two...
Sheesh...16 years is a lot of fail. It's going to be tough to overcome.

:wink:
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

"A New York Times editorial in August explained that the DOJ's excuse for failing to prosecute Wall Street executives — that it was too hard to obtain convictions — "has always defied common sense, and all the more so now that a fuller picture is emerging of the range of banks' reckless and lawless activities, including interest-rate rigging, money laundering, securities fraud and excessive speculation."


Nothing illegal here folks...LOL
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

Danzig in the Dark wrote:
Dr J Jones wrote:Oh...you're fucking deflecting alright.... :lol:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-wall ... ted-2013-1


So ...tell me again how they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... :lol:
What they did was criminal. Unfortunately, it was not illegal.


and I think you need to read the article... :lol:
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

"As I documented at length in my 2011 book on America's two-tiered justice system, "With Liberty and Justice for Some," the evidence that felonies were committed by Wall Street is overwhelming. That evidence directly negates the primary excuse by Breuer (previously offered by Obama himself) that the bad acts of Wall Street were not criminal.
Numerous documents prove that executives at leading banks, credit agencies, and mortgage brokers were falsely touting assets as sound that they knew were junk — the very definition of fraud."


Sounds illegal to me
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Dr J Jones wrote:"As I documented at length in my 2011 book on America's two-tiered justice system, "With Liberty and Justice for Some," the evidence that felonies were committed by Wall Street is overwhelming. That evidence directly negates the primary excuse by Breuer (previously offered by Obama himself) that the bad acts of Wall Street were not criminal.
Numerous documents prove that executives at leading banks, credit agencies, and mortgage brokers were falsely touting assets as sound that they knew were junk — the very definition of fraud."


Sounds illegal to me
Cite the law in question and exactly how it was violated. Those Wall Street firms don't keep stables of lawyers on retainer for humanitarian reasons.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

Danzig in the Dark wrote:
Dr J Jones wrote:"As I documented at length in my 2011 book on America's two-tiered justice system, "With Liberty and Justice for Some," the evidence that felonies were committed by Wall Street is overwhelming. That evidence directly negates the primary excuse by Breuer (previously offered by Obama himself) that the bad acts of Wall Street were not criminal.
Numerous documents prove that executives at leading banks, credit agencies, and mortgage brokers were falsely touting assets as sound that they knew were junk — the very definition of fraud."


Sounds illegal to me
Cite the law in question and exactly how it was violated. Those Wall Street firms don't keep stables of lawyers on retainer for humanitarian reasons.


FRAUD---again...just read...it's pretty self explanatory.

Obama is weak and won't even "try" because it's "too hard"
:lol: :roll:

I want a president to say.."it's gonna be hard but I am going to try anyway"..that would at least indicate to me that he has a backbone and isn't owned by the bankers.

But hey, at least they got the guy that made the video that caused the spontaneous demonstration in Benghazi! Whew! :lol:

His weakness is only overshadowed by his ineptness.

Bush and Barack=back to back fails
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

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"In response to the DOJ's excuse-making that these criminal cases are too hard to win, numerous experts — Senators, top Hill staffers, former DOJ prosecutors — emphasized the key point: Obama officials never even tried."



WEAK!
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

And then there is this lying sack of shit from the Obama administration



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/1 ... 24620.html


Bring on the deflection...
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Dr J Jones wrote:
Danzig in the Dark wrote:
Dr J Jones wrote:"As I documented at length in my 2011 book on America's two-tiered justice system, "With Liberty and Justice for Some," the evidence that felonies were committed by Wall Street is overwhelming. That evidence directly negates the primary excuse by Breuer (previously offered by Obama himself) that the bad acts of Wall Street were not criminal.
Numerous documents prove that executives at leading banks, credit agencies, and mortgage brokers were falsely touting assets as sound that they knew were junk — the very definition of fraud."


Sounds illegal to me
Cite the law in question and exactly how it was violated. Those Wall Street firms don't keep stables of lawyers on retainer for humanitarian reasons.


FRAUD---again...just read...it's pretty self explanatory.

Obama is weak and won't even "try" because it's "too hard"
:lol: :roll:

I want a president to say.."it's gonna be hard but I am going to try anyway"..that would at least indicate to me that he has a backbone and isn't owned by the bankers.

But hey, at least they got the guy that made the video that caused the spontaneous demonstration in Benghazi! Whew! :lol:

His weakness is only overshadowed by his ineptness.

Bush and Barack=back to back fails
While I would like to see it happen, you need an actual violation of a specific law to issue criminal charges, let alone get a conviction. The question you should be asking is why haven't they changed these laws and reintroduced the regulation which forbade these predatory practices.

You are a simple minded fool who admits to accepting the status quo and doing nothing to alter the situation, yet you criticize those who at least attempt to change they system for the better. While you submissively wait for someone else to provide you with perfect representatives, the rest of us seek and actively support people who, although not perfect, are an improvement over the status quo you've settled for.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Dr J Jones »

FRAUD....

I'll dismiss your name calling as lame immature attempt at internet bullying. You are a typical liberal who refuses to face the fact that your president is weak.

Keep on deflecting
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Danzig in the Dark »

Dr J Jones wrote:FRAUD....
and thanks to statutes and regulation weakened at conservative's behest, not illegal. The reason you don't ask how this came to be is because you're one of those conservatives who were all for this bit of smaller, less intrusive government until it blew up in our faces and now you want to blame anything but the policies you supported. It's obvious you were never a liberal and your "both sides suck" act is a desperate attempt to insulate yourself from well deserved criticism.
Dr J Jones wrote:I'll dismiss your name calling as lame immature attempt at internet bullying. You are a typical liberal who refuses to face the fact that your president is weak.
What you mean is you won't attempt to argue that my assessment of you is in any way inaccurate because you know I will back it up with your own words.
Dr J Jones wrote:Keep on deflecting
Keep up the irony.

BTW, the President's weakness as evidenced by his repeated refusals to tell the Republicans to fuck off and get out of the way of progress has been discussed many times.
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Re: NSA Whistleblower a Ron Paul Supporter

Post by Stoner »

Dr J Jones wrote:FRAUD....

I'll dismiss your name calling as lame immature attempt at internet bullying. You are a typical liberal who refuses to face the fact that your president is weak.

Keep on deflecting

The irony of this post and your admission of accepting the status quo to the point of not even voting are astounding and borderline schizophrenic.

You are the worst kind of political commentator - a commentator and nothing more.

GTFO.

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