GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

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GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MetalSludgeCEO »

1994... was 30 years ago, and at the time the Grunge and 90's movement was in full control.

The industry as a whole, was NOT very friendly to the "so-called" 80's bands... like TUFF. In short, we were no longer relevant, and the entire industry, along with many fans turned their backs. #facts

With that... I soldiered forward, starting my own label (RLS Records est. 1994) after getting signed and dropped, more than once. By this point, Todd Chase (Bass) and Michael Lean (Drums) had both left the band. We had also been dropped by Atlantic Records, then signed to IRS/Grand Slamm Records, and that deal went belly-up as well.

But, I continued to book shows coast-to-coast, manufacture merchandise, and distribute that merch, music (CDs, Cassettes, VHS - at the time) into Mom & Pop's stores across the Nation.

TUFF as everyone knows, built our brand and name on the Sunset Strip and in Southern California, on the West Coast and worked our way East, little by little but in the greater Los Angeles area, we definitely had a draw.

TUFF went from headlining clubs, to doing double-nights at all the clubs, from The Roxy, Gazzarri's & Troubadour too during our peak, 1987-1991!

We even headlined and Sold Out, the bigger clubs, like The County Club in Reseda and supported on bigger National shows at The Palace and Santa Monica Civic Center.
Okay, to my point...

In 1994 our beloved Gina B. was no longer at the Troubadour and the house agent was a guy named Lance.

I can recall this like it was last week... I call Lance and tell him, "Hey, we just released our NEW record, "Fist First" and we're going to go on tour, but we'd love to do a show at Troubadour."

A bit of History here, TUFF played our 2nd ever show at the Troubadour and over the years, 1987-88-89-90-91-92 and 1993, we always ended up doing a show here pretty much every year, sometimes 2 or 3. I have a log of the dates.

Lance took my call, and hemmed and hawed, "Well... " blah, blah, blah... as he seemed forced to give me any time on the phone.

I had to really push him, almost to the point of begging, and he finally caved in and agreed to let our "80s Hairband" play the club, even though what we were known for, was NOT hip in the industry.

Attached, is a 2 part contract, from that show.

Lance gave TUFF a $750 guarantee, vs: 50% of the door and I had to pull teeth to get this done. This was about 1/3 to 1/2 of what we used to get, only a year or two earlier.

To be fair, Lance wasn't mean, or ugly, but he wasn't very friendly either... I can read people and knew I was on the "outs" with my entire life's work but kept pushing.

I am curious... how many people do you think TUFF drew, on this night?

Page 2 breaks down, pre-sale tix sold thru Ticketmaster, and what the "walk up" number was that night.

The capacity online says the club holds 500, but that would be very generous... my guess is they are likely considering the Front Bar, and the Balcony too. If there are any more than 200 on the main floor, the club looks full.

Looking back at these old tour itineraries, and contracts is interesting... how a few years earlier, we were getting paid 3-4-5x the money and drawing 4-5-10x the people.

I can recall it all like it was yesterday... the good, the bad and the ugly, and the middle of the 90's - well, it was VERY ugly.

Okay... here is your chance... post your guesses in the comments, and I will come back and share Page 2, with the final numbers.

How many tix did TUFF sell in advance, thru Ticketmaster....
How many tix did TUFF sell at the door, as walk-ups...
How many tix did TUFF sell total, for Sat. July 23rd 1994!

Ready, Set, Guess?


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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by Black Stuff »

I'm game

Presales....125

Door.... 50

Total 175
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by VinnieVincentsVag »

12
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MattleyCrue »

I’d say at least 400
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by eddie lee roth »

I’m guessing it’s a number that made your asshole pucker considering the timeline.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by ijwthstd »

100 / 200 / 300
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MattleyCrue »

Was anyone at this show?
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by TeslaFan »

It was a Saturday so I’m guessing numbers were okay Pre 88 Door 121 Total 390
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by Bono Nettencourt »

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veritas wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 3:37 pm Wow, late to this thread, but Sleek is pulling a Moggio here.

It's absolutely idiotic to contend Zep weren't A-listers in the 1970s.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by VinceVanLane »

I tried to see if there was a video of this show online so I could cheat but I couldn't find one. I did find this video of Tuff at the Troubadour from 1990.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWSc1bNFuxE

But my guess is as follows:

Presales = 40

Door = 45

Total = 85
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by jhenders »

22 -.pre-sales thru Ticketmaster
40 - walk-ups
62.- total attendance
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MetalSludgeCEO »

BernieTaupson wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 5:32 pm If it was half empty you wouldn’t be loosening up for the humblebrag you’re just about to unleash.
I guess I should never underestimate this forum and how intuitive the guests are who visit!

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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by LitaStrauss »

How many tix did TUFF sell in advance, thru Ticketmaster = 150
How many tix did TUFF sell at the door, as walk-ups = 100
How many tix did TUFF sell total, for Sat. July 23rd 1994! = 250
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by Brainy Lane »

Tuff in LA in 94??
100 presale
75 walk up
175
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by Tyketto Meniketti »

Presale: 4
Walkup: 296

Place was packed and rockin'.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by DonJuanDeMarco »

LitaStrauss wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:33 pm How many tix did TUFF sell in advance, thru Ticketmaster = 150
How many tix did TUFF sell at the door, as walk-ups = 100
How many tix did TUFF sell total, for Sat. July 23rd 1994! = 250
Warrant could barely draw 250 people in 1994. I say take off a zero.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by cowpins »

Hmmmm....A Saturday night show and Cops on Fox was pretty popular then. However, by 94' what few diehards that were left were itching for a hair metal show, so I'm going 350+ in LA. Crickets in other towns, though.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MetalSludgeCEO »

TUFF sold 19 Tix in advance thru Ticketmaster and had 161 Tix sold at the door from Walk-ups!

Total draw, 180, @ $ 10.00 a pop = $ 1,800.00, and we got 50% of that!

Total pay $ 900.00, plus merchandise. I have a log somewhere, that will tell me merch sales too. Gotta find that!

This was better than expected at the time.

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Last edited by MetalSludgeCEO on Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by cowpins »

Damn...I almost went w/ 175 thinking Cops was a repeat that weekend! Def thought higher advance, though.
"bus problems come on man so boring we have our bus its awesome and we r watching judge judy on it right now tour is going great 14 more shows to go see you out there rockin peeps not you garbageman you stay home" - HueyRamone, 7/3/12
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by VinnieVincentsVag »

We were making $900/night guaranteed playing covers back then.
Plus tshirt sales.
Weird.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by daveg »

That's the worst "humblebrag" ever. :D :D

But 19?? Figure you'd have more friends than that.

94 to 96 were probably the worst years to be in a hair band. Grunge, 90's alt rock were still going strong and no one would admit to being a fan.

I think the Rock never stops tours that started...I Think... in 98 started the minor revival.

What was the state of the band at this point....can't remember the timeline. Still all original?
Were you trying to gauge interest for a club tour?
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by Black Stuff »

Damn, only off by a few
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MetalSludgeCEO »

daveg wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 10:35 am That's the worst "humblebrag" ever. :D :D

But 19?? Figure you'd have more friends than that.

94 to 96 were probably the worst years to be in a hair band. Grunge, 90's alt rock were still going strong and no one would admit to being a fan.

I think the Rock never stops tours that started...I Think... in 98 started the minor revival.

What was the state of the band at this point....can't remember the timeline. Still all original?
Were you trying to gauge interest for a club tour?
"""""""""""""""""But 19?? Figure you'd have more friends than that.""""""""""""""""

Did you read the full post? 19 was the presale, there were 161 walk-ups, total of 180.

Not bragging at all... just stating some facts and sharing some history.


"""""""""""""""""94 to 96 were probably the worst years to be in a hair band. Grunge, 90's alt rock were still going strong and no one would admit to being a fan."""""""

This.

And your line here, ""no one would admit to being a fan."" is and was DEAD on!


""""""""""""""""I think the Rock never stops tours that started...I Think... in 98 started the minor revival."""""""""""""""

Correct, around that time, it was starting ease up but it wasn't until the early 2000's when it started swing the other way.


""""""""""""""""""What was the state of the band at this point....can't remember the timeline. Still all original?"""""""""""""""

No. It was Jorge & I, along with Jimi Lord on drums who replaced Lean in the fall of 1993. Jamie Fonte was on bass.


"""""""""""""""""""Were you trying to gauge interest for a club tour?""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Trying to gauge interest? No.

The band was simply doing what we do, did, move forward, book, play, record, etc...


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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by cowpins »

@ Stevie. And here we are 30 years later and I was wearing my TUFF shirt that other day and stopped by my parents house and my mom said, "cool shirt". 8)
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by eddie lee roth »

cowpins wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:01 am @ Stevie. And here we are 30 years later and I was wearing my TUFF shirt that other day and stopped by my parents house and my mom said, "cool shirt". 8)
Yeah but your dad said if I knew you were coming over I would of made sure the lids were down in the pisser.
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by REO Cokewagon »

MetalSludgeCEO wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:10 am TUFF sold 19 Tix in advance thru Ticketmaster and had 161 Tix sold at the door from Walk-ups!

Total draw, 180, @ $ 10.00 a pop = $ 1,800.00, and we got 50% of that!

Total pay $ 900.00, plus merchandise. I have a log somewhere, that will tell me merch sales too. Gotta find that!

This was better than expected at the time.

$tEvil
How many people did u put on the guest list?
Did u put Todd Chaisson on the guest list?
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by cowpins »

eddie lee roth wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:31 pm
cowpins wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 11:01 am @ Stevie. And here we are 30 years later and I was wearing my TUFF shirt that other day and stopped by my parents house and my mom said, "cool shirt". 8)
Yeah but your dad said if I knew you were coming over I would of made sure the lids were down in the pisser.
"Hey, this water's cold!"
"bus problems come on man so boring we have our bus its awesome and we r watching judge judy on it right now tour is going great 14 more shows to go see you out there rockin peeps not you garbageman you stay home" - HueyRamone, 7/3/12
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by MetalSludgeCEO »

REO Cokewagon wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:37 pm
MetalSludgeCEO wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:10 am TUFF sold 19 Tix in advance thru Ticketmaster and had 161 Tix sold at the door from Walk-ups!

Total draw, 180, @ $ 10.00 a pop = $ 1,800.00, and we got 50% of that!

Total pay $ 900.00, plus merchandise. I have a log somewhere, that will tell me merch sales too. Gotta find that!

This was better than expected at the time.

$tEvil
How many people did u put on the guest list?
Did u put Todd Chaisson on the guest list?

If you looked at the Contract, at the link, you would see there was a "20" person guest list and "6" crew.

Chase? No. At that point, he and I were not talking or friends, which stayed that way for about a decade.

In short, he hated me, and he quit the band because of me.

In 2008, he returned to the band, and for the last 15 years we've gotten along better than ever.

$tEvil
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by ParaDime77 »

This is a good post and hopefully you do more like this, CEO.

Question: So the band makes $900. What is the band split for a gig like that? Do you take half as the band is yours per say and the other guys in the band split the balance?
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Re: GUESS OUR DRAW ... Tuff show, July 23rd 1994, at Troubadour in Hollywood. (See the Contract)

Post by ParaDime77 »

.
Last edited by ParaDime77 on Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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