KISS - Take It Off

[Tommy2Tone84]

At first I thought Farce was in love with Eric Singer. Now I’m beginning to think he is Eric Singer.

[risingfarce]

There was nothing magical about KISS from 1996 to 2000.

Ticket sales were certainly magical.

Hell, you went to see them six times and you hated them, you fucking weirdo!

Correct, ticket sales were magical. The band on stage, musically, was anything but magical.

I went to see Paul and Gene. That's about it.

[risingfarce]

Oh and the 2000 Farewell would have absolutely hit 250 shows too except Ace’s contract ran out after the 2001 leg and he simply wouldn’t come back. They begged him to come back for a European leg and then another go around of the USA (like the 1997 “Lost Cities” leg) but Ace was on heroin and wouldn’t do it. He also hated Gene for putting that photo of him kissing a guy in his book.

They did 142 shows on the first Farewell tour in thirteen months and only 250 on the End of the Road over four years! I know you have to allow for Covid, but that’s still nowhere near the workload of the 2000-01 tour is it. EOTR started Jan 2019 so they had an entire 14 months before Covid interruptions were even a thing anyway, longer than the entire length of the first Farewell tour.

They played 142 shows on the "Farewell" tour. That's it. Doesn't matter if Ace was in full-blown alcoholic and drug addict mode. They didn't reach 200 shows, never mind 250.

You're a dumbass. It took KISS four years to complete the "End Of The Road" tour due to the covid crisis. Paul got sick at least twice. Gene was also sick. Multiple legs of the tour had to be rescheduled, some legs more than once. Some countries and cities ended up being skipped. If every date had been played, the total would have been over 250 shows. There were also places where they never played before that they were trying to get to on their last tour (Israel (never announced), South Africa, El Salvador, Costa Rica (the two Central American dates were attempted twice), Lithuania).

It doesn't matter how hard you try to spin it, Paul/Gene/Eric/Tommy performed KISS' longest and most successful tour.


Ace never learned his lesson. Don't do heroin. Don't kiss a guy. Don't have your photo taken while kissing a guy.

Ace is a dumbass. A lazy one at that. He got exactly what he deserved. No regrets? He has many.

[risingfarce]

At first I thought Farce was in love with Eric Singer. Now I’m beginning to think he is Eric Singer.

Just another moronic post from you.

[risingfarce]

Gene has fucking awful as well. From 1998 he just stood there looking goofy sticking his tongue out. No demon or aggression at all. Not even the Revenge tour guy with makeup, it was more like a mascot on a parade float or something. And WAYYY too many stupid cliches over and over again, “I like it” etc. He was cool in the 70s when he didn’t speak.

As I said above, Gene was Gene.

I'd rank him second as far as performances go.

Circa 1996 to 2000, it was 1) Paul, 2) Gene, 3) Ace, 4) Peter, as far as their performances go. Gene and Ace were bloated. Over-weight. They looked terrible in the makeup and looked fat in the outfits. Plus, when it got to the "Farewell" tour nobody liked one another and the last place Peter and Ace wanted to be was on a KISS stage. The last place Paul wanted to be was on stage with Peter, Ace, and Gene. He had had enough. Yet, even though he hated it, he didn't bring that shit onto the stage the way Ace and particularly Peter did and he gave it his all every night.

[NeonKnite]

Correct, ticket sales were magical. The band on stage, musically, was anything but magical.

If you watch a show from 1996 and compare it to 2023, the 1996 show is infinitely better in every single way.

The last KISS tour was two guys way past their prime and two soulless, sterile, no personality fill-ins.

And they're so great musically, the setlists sucked and the shows were lip synced.

Risingfarce says "Yay for lip syncing!!"

[risingfarce]

Why do you hate Ace and Peter so much? I think they’re both buffoons, but Gene and Paul are fucking assholes as well, so they all deserve each other.

The way you insanely rant about Ace and Peter and keep obsessively mentioning drugs, you just come across as fucking unhinged man.

Presumably you’ve never had a drink or drug in your life? You’ve clearly got some sort of weird hang up or fear of alcohol and drugs, just like Gene Simmons had or has.

Bro it’s KISS. They’re a fucking joke band anyway. Why take it so seriously? The only thing they’ve been good for for decades is to laugh and see how bad they get.

I hope they DO do some sort of tour or regular shows after this Vegas clusterfuck they’re planning.

I hate those two because they're losers and they suck as people and as musicians. They blame others for all of their problems. That's what alcoholic and drug addicts do. They sold their souls to Paul and Gene, then whined when the band continued without them. Ace brags about not having been fired from KISS. He's right, he wasn't fired, he quit both times. He hated the band and he hated the fans. He won't even look a paying fan in the eyes at meet and greets. The guy's a POS. Peter never liked the band or the music to begin with. I wish Eric Carr would have been the original drummer. Much better drummer and vocalist than Peter.

They're all fucking assholes, each in his own way. Paul was the only one trying the entire time. That's the difference between him and Gene, Peter, and Ace. That's why he gets a little bit of slack from me for lip-synching for the majority of each concert on the last tour. The last tour being the key here. He only did it on one tour and he said he was done with KISS in makeup and outfits and big stage shows. I said my goodbye at the two shows I attended and I'm good. I saw Paul's voice start to deteriorate starting on the "Rock The Nation" tour in 2004. I attended shows after that where he was terrible. The band was great. The other three members sang well. Eric covered for Paul great with his harmonies and high parts. Tommy did a good job with the backgrounds, too. He has a much better voice than Ace, so the three and four part harmonies sounded the best with the last lineup.

"Unhinged"? Unhinged is you coming into every post of mine. You're just like one of Pavlov's dogs. You can't help yourself. Ask yourself, why do you care so much about what I think. You obviously care a great deal, because you follow me from thread to thread.

I hate Ace and Peter. You come running. You can't help yourself.

I'm not a non-drinker. It's not a big or important part of my life. Seen enough people who are alcoholics and never wanted to be anything like them. Same goes with drug users. People who are so miserable that they need to escape their miserable lives, so they turn to drink and/or drugs. I'll pass.

I don't think KISS is a joke band. You do. I don't care. Lots of great music put out by each lineup and lots of great shows that I've seen by them.

I have no interest in the avatar thing. I have no reason to go to Las Vegas to begin with. The avatar thing isn't KISS. It isn't musical. It's not seeing Paul and Gene. It's not supposed to be something that would tour theaters. If it changed to be this way, I'd pass if it played locally. At the minimum, I'd check out clips on YouTube just to see what it actually is. One and done.

I'm good with KISS being done. Paul's medical issues with his vocal cord hemorrhaging sucked. He was a great vocalist and he lasted a lot longer than most of the great rock vocalists. I was happy with "Sonic Boom" and "Monster", because they were real KISS studio cds (no outside writers and musicians; everyone played their own instruments on each track; they worked together on the songs). There should have been at least one more studio cd from that lineup. I blame Paul for refusing to record more. I also blame Paul for not having Tommy sing at least one track on the last tour and not having Eric sing three songs. I blame Paul for refusing to mix up the setlist (no reason for not playing one or two deep tracks (like on the kruises) during the encore).

I said goodbye in 2019.

Two of my nieces wanted to see them (one hadn't seen them before), so I brought them in 2021. That was my final goodbye.

[risingfarce]

Eric singer was so bothered by Peter
he had to reach for 78solo album heights
by joining soul station

Paul Stanley to Eric Carr “you can’t be in KISS and be in my solo band!”

Paul Stanley to Eric Singer “you can be in KISS and be in my solo band!”

Paul didn't want Carr hired in the first place. Gene and Ace wanted him, so that's why Carr became the new drummer.

Carr wasn't the drummer that Singer is. Carr didn't have the technical abilities that Singer has.

Paul likes Singer as a drummer, because he's a reliable, professional musician who can do the job great, whether it was KISS or Soul Station.

[risingfarce]

Correct, ticket sales were magical. The band on stage, musically, was anything but magical.

If you watch a show from 1996 and compare it to 2023, the 1996 show is infinitely better in every single way.

The last KISS tour was two guys way past their prime and two soulless, sterile, no personality fill-ins.

And they're so great musically, the setlists sucked and the shows were lip synced.

Risingfarce says "Yay for lip syncing!!"

Not at all, with the exception of Paul's vocals.

1996. Great Paul vocals. Gene was Gene. Peter royally sucked. He couldn't even play "Deuce" properly. Dummy downed all of his drum parts. Ace was a sloppy mess. Four guys who didn't like one another. Nothing had changed from the '70s.

2023. Paul's vocals were so deteriorated, that he resorted to lip-synching the majority of each concert, but he put in great effort to entertain at each show. Gene was Gene. Eric's drumming, lead vocals and harmony vocals were great. Tommy was the M.V.P. of the "End Of The Road" tour. He had always played well (since 2004) and he was on fire on the last tour. Good vocalist, too. Eric, in particular, and Tommy helped a struggling Paul with their background vocals.

And stepping away from the musical part of KISS, the 2023 stage production blew away the extremely boring 1996 show in every way.

1996 was two guys who lost what little musical skills they had due to their addictions showing just how bad off they were musically.

Never said "Yay for lip synching", but I understood. If they had continued to tour with Paul doing that, I wouldn't have continued to go any longer.

[risingfarce]

Yeah Ace and Peter were sloppy as fuck but the tempos weren’t any slower than EOTR and the guitars weren’t in D and they weren’t running vocal tracks!

Due to Paul’s revisionism people tend to think the tempos were tragically slow but they really weren’t.

https://youtu.be/6N6UL6cdFkY?si=3gyxgWLC0MiPW4MC

https://youtu.be/Tu9O-WQ7ctQ?si=RdwwegmSNTfoSzWD

https://youtu.be/ZU80ejuehQo?si=AZiPD6AYSzCgC1sD

Fuck me they’re actually SLOWER on the last tour with the click track :

https://youtu.be/KtAodazNKkE?si=-uBm4w_3VIOM04a6

Doesn't matter which key/which tempo the songs were played in, circa 1996 to 2000, Peter sucked. He should have never been a drummer on a KISS stage ever again. Ace was doing his best Fat Elvis imitation. A bloated, disinterested mess. The only reason why he was back in KISS was for the money. That's what happens when you declare bankruptcy after having lost all of your money on alcohol, drugs, and gambling. Paul gets the blame for having two top notch musicians laid off in 1996. He deserved the misery that Peter and Ace provided.

[Earl Skakel]

I am curious how many songs were written for earlier albums, dusted off, and reworked a la VH's ADKOT.

VH were the jedi masters of this. For VH2, I think they wrote one new song, DTNA. For Diver Down, two (Secrets and Little Guitars).
WACF had two all new songs And the Cradle Will Rock and Everybody Wants Some, and Romeo Delight was "new" frankensteined together from at least 2 different early songs.
Half of 1984 was also based on songs written in 76-81.
I believe most of Fair Warning was newly written except for Mean Street, again a frankenstein of Voodoo Queen, She's The Woman and some other bits and pieces.

Gene Simmons is also famous for recycling his own songs. Most of his 1978 solo album is reworked Kiss demos, Calling Dr. Love uses the riff from one demo song and the lyrics/melody from another, etc etc. But nothing I can recall on Revenge, except that he put in a Spinal Tap lyric in Spit as a joke.

I'm asking not telling but wasn't alot of the first Hagar VH album stuff Eddie came up with for the cult movie The Wild Life? That's a very under the radar movie if nobody has seen it, kind of a loose sequel of Fast Times.

[Earl Skakel]

Eric singer was so bothered by Peter
he had to reach for 78solo album heights
by joining soul station

Paul Stanley to Eric Carr “you can’t be in KISS and be in my solo band!”

Paul Stanley to Eric Singer “you can be in KISS and be in my solo band!”

Paul didn't want Carr hired in the first place. Gene and Ace wanted him, so that's why Carr became the new drummer.

Carr wasn't the drummer that Singer is. Carr didn't have the technical abilities that Singer has.

Paul likes Singer as a drummer, because he's a reliable, professional musician who can do the job great, whether it was KISS or Soul Station.

Who did Paul want as the drummer? Would be funny if they asked Anton Fig and he said "I make way more money doing Letterman so no thanks!"

[Love_Industry]

Paul didn't want Carr hired in the first place. Gene and Ace wanted him, so that's why Carr became the new drummer.

Carr wasn't the drummer that Singer is. Carr didn't have the technical abilities that Singer has.

Paul likes Singer as a drummer, because he's a reliable, professional musician who can do the job great, whether it was KISS or Soul Station.

Who did Paul want as the drummer? Would be funny if they asked Anton Fig and he said "I make way more money doing Letterman so no thanks!"

Anton didn't start with Letterman until 1986....

Don't know if it was Paul who wanted him but Bobby Rondinelli almost got the job. Paul may have wanted Richie Fontana who played on his solo album but he was too well known having released albums with Piper. Or Stephen Quadros who was in Snow with Carlos Cavazo at the time. Gary Mallaber of Raven was also offered the job at one point.

[Mister Freeze]

Paul thought Eric Carr looked like a little boy, but came to realize he's built like a man.

[NeonKnite]

Nm

[NeonKnite]

2023. Paul's vocals were so deteriorated, that he resorted to lip-synching the majority of each concert, but he put in great effort to entertain at each show. Gene was Gene. Eric's drumming, lead vocals and harmony vocals were great. Tommy was the M.V.P. of the "End Of The Road" tour. He had always played well (since 2004) and he was on fire on the last tour. Good vocalist, too. Eric, in particular, and Tommy helped a struggling Paul with their background vocals.

And stepping away from the musical part of KISS, the 2023 stage production blew away the extremely boring 1996 show in every way.

1996 was two guys who lost what little musical skills they had due to their addictions showing just how bad off they were musically.

Never said "Yay for lip synching", but I understood. If they had continued to tour with Paul doing that, I wouldn't have continued to go any longer.

Yea, Paul 'did it for the fans'.

They made a mockery of their entire career to pad their bank accounts and were major hypocrites in the process. You sure have high standards and make excuses for the unforgivable sin of lip syncing.

The reunion tour was, by far, their greatest tour ever and even they would tell you that if they're being serious. They were all over the media in every country. Lots of cool stuff happened in 96/97

They didn't even care to release an official show from EOTR cause it sucked ass and wouldn't sell. Dubai was such a disaster they ripped off their fans. And don't tell me another company was responsible, they could have made their fans whole and decided not to.

[Hatchets Molly]

Paul thought Eric Carr looked like a little boy, but came to realize he's built like a man.

Ugh. When he says that shit, I feel homosexual by proxy.

[DangerZone]

Paul can be summed up by that Slash story in his autobiography.

[Earl Skakel]

Paul didn't want Carr hired in the first place. Gene and Ace wanted him, so that's why Carr became the new drummer.

Carr wasn't the drummer that Singer is. Carr didn't have the technical abilities that Singer has.

Paul likes Singer as a drummer, because he's a reliable, professional musician who can do the job great, whether it was KISS or Soul Station.

Who did Paul want as the drummer? Would be funny if they asked Anton Fig and he said "I make way more money doing Letterman so no thanks!"

Anton didn't start with Letterman until 1986....

Don't know if it was Paul who wanted him but Bobby Rondinelli almost got the job. Paul may have wanted Richie Fontana who played on his solo album but he was too well known having released albums with Piper. Or Stephen Quadros who was in Snow with Carlos Cavazo at the time. Gary Mallaber of Raven was also offered the job at one point.

Thanks for the clarification and info. I would still think with Fig playing most of Dynasty and Unmasked he must have been considered?

[risingfarce]

Paul didn't want Carr hired in the first place. Gene and Ace wanted him, so that's why Carr became the new drummer.

Carr wasn't the drummer that Singer is. Carr didn't have the technical abilities that Singer has.

Paul likes Singer as a drummer, because he's a reliable, professional musician who can do the job great, whether it was KISS or Soul Station.

Who did Paul want as the drummer? Would be funny if they asked Anton Fig and he said "I make way more money doing Letterman so no thanks!"

Anton didn't start with Letterman until 1986....

Don't know if it was Paul who wanted him but Bobby Rondinelli almost got the job. Paul may have wanted Richie Fontana who played on his solo album but he was too well known having released albums with Piper. Or Stephen Quadros who was in Snow with Carlos Cavazo at the time. Gary Mallaber of Raven was also offered the job at one point.

Rondinelli was eliminated due to not being a singer. Eric Carr could sing and he got 2 out of 3 votes, so he's the person who got the job. Plus, he was an unknown.

[risingfarce]

2023. Paul's vocals were so deteriorated, that he resorted to lip-synching the majority of each concert, but he put in great effort to entertain at each show. Gene was Gene. Eric's drumming, lead vocals and harmony vocals were great. Tommy was the M.V.P. of the "End Of The Road" tour. He had always played well (since 2004) and he was on fire on the last tour. Good vocalist, too. Eric, in particular, and Tommy helped a struggling Paul with their background vocals.

And stepping away from the musical part of KISS, the 2023 stage production blew away the extremely boring 1996 show in every way.

1996 was two guys who lost what little musical skills they had due to their addictions showing just how bad off they were musically.

Never said "Yay for lip synching", but I understood. If they had continued to tour with Paul doing that, I wouldn't have continued to go any longer.

Yea, Paul 'did it for the fans'.

They made a mockery of their entire career to pad their bank accounts and were major hypocrites in the process. You sure have high standards and make excuses for the unforgivable sin of lip syncing.

The reunion tour was, by far, their greatest tour ever and even they would tell you that if they're being serious. They were all over the media in every country. Lots of cool stuff happened in 96/97

They didn't even care to release an official show from EOTR cause it sucked ass and wouldn't sell. Dubai was such a disaster they ripped off their fans. And don't tell me another company was responsible, they could have made their fans whole and decided not to.

"End Of The Road" tour made the most money. You said that money was all they cared about. So, "End Of The Road" with Eric and Tommy was the greater tour.

KISS didn't have high standards circa 1996 through 2000. They hired Peter and Ace. Can't get any lower than that. Such a shit show. People came out of the woodwork, saw that shit show, then stayed home on the next tour. Second U.S. leg got cancelled. Half of the U.S. didn't even get a show. Paul knew it was over for that lineup. Instead of doing KISS, he did "Phantom". After that, he put KISS out of its misery. Tear drop and all.

[risingfarce]

Paul thought Eric Carr looked like a little boy, but came to realize he's built like a man.

Ugh. When he says that shit, I feel homosexual by proxy.

It doesn't take Paul to make you feel like the homosexual that you truly are. Just ask your boyfriend.

[risingfarce]

Who did Paul want as the drummer? Would be funny if they asked Anton Fig and he said "I make way more money doing Letterman so no thanks!"

Anton didn't start with Letterman until 1986....

Don't know if it was Paul who wanted him but Bobby Rondinelli almost got the job. Paul may have wanted Richie Fontana who played on his solo album but he was too well known having released albums with Piper. Or Stephen Quadros who was in Snow with Carlos Cavazo at the time. Gary Mallaber of Raven was also offered the job at one point.

Thanks for the clarification and info. I would still think with Fig playing most of Dynasty and Unmasked he must have been considered?

He was given the gig one day, then it was rescinded the next day. Fig wasn't famous, but he wasn't exactly an unknown. Plus, Paul and Gene knew that Ace would have influenced Fig in the wrong ways. Fig thought that his band was going to make it and wanted to stay with that.

[Hatchets Molly]

Paul thought Eric Carr looked like a little boy, but came to realize he's built like a man.

Ugh. When he says that shit, I feel homosexual by proxy.

It doesn't take Paul to make you feel like the homosexual that you truly are. Just ask your boyfriend.

You know that you're the only ladyboi for me.

[Earl Skakel]

Anton didn't start with Letterman until 1986....

Don't know if it was Paul who wanted him but Bobby Rondinelli almost got the job. Paul may have wanted Richie Fontana who played on his solo album but he was too well known having released albums with Piper. Or Stephen Quadros who was in Snow with Carlos Cavazo at the time. Gary Mallaber of Raven was also offered the job at one point.

Thanks for the clarification and info. I would still think with Fig playing most of Dynasty and Unmasked he must have been considered?

He was given the gig one day, then it was rescinded the next day. Fig wasn't famous, but he wasn't exactly an unknown. Plus, Paul and Gene knew that Ace would have influenced Fig in the wrong ways. Fig thought that his band was going to make it and wanted to stay with that.

Such a fascinating time and I know just a year or two later the same shit happened with Ace leaving and a boatload of guys auditioned. Is it true Robbin Crosby auditioned? I can't imagine either Gene or Paul wanting a good looking tall guy in the band!

[Danzig in the Dark]

Rising Farce is a chick? Wow. All this time I thought she was a guy. She def has a guy's posting style. Could this be a Michellish situation?

I figured he was saying she to imply he acted like a chick in his emotional responses. So now, IDK.

Im pretty sure Rising Farce likes Extreme, and that's a band for girls. Im pretty sure thats the More than Words band. But most girls love Beth, so now I dont know what to think.

KISS is shite. That's all you need to know.

[HueyRamone]

They originally said to get Anton, so Ace called him up and said he had the job. Then Gene and Paul changed their minds because Anton used to booze and drug it up, and probably because he was friends with Ace. So Ace had to call him a day later and say you’re out again.

He was given the gig one day, then it was rescinded the next day. Fig wasn't famous, but he wasn't exactly an unknown. Plus, Paul and Gene knew that Ace would have influenced Fig in the wrong ways. Fig thought that his band was going to make it and wanted to stay with that.

Wow, Rising Farce, thanks for bringing some really pertinent information that Bernie Taupson didnt cover a few posts before that. You're quite the sage, educating everyone with your knowledge.

[NeonKnite]

KISS didn't have high standards circa 1996 through 2000. They hired Peter and Ace. Can't get any lower than that.

They lip synced the entire EOTR tour you fucking idiot.