No one “knew” Gilmour by his face either as far as the general public was concerned. When the other guys got to use the name Roger’s solo career was doomed. Most people didn’t even realize Roger wrote almost all of the songs and was co-lead singer and only went where the name PINK FLOYD was printed on the ticket. Not that I was a big fan of Roger’s solo work OR Rogerless Floyd. But it’s ALL about the name especially with a “faceless” band like PF. If Roger had won the right to use the name, he’d have done extremely well with a Gilmour sound-alike (hell, he had Clapton).
Well, yeah, that's my point: the name Pink Floyd was everything. Few people knew any of the band members, much less their respective contributions.
Roger miscalculated, thinking the band would end and he could at least leverage the Pink Floyd name over his side of the ledger.
I was a much bigger fan of Roger Waters and understood (and understand) his perspective: the "new" Pink Floyd was sort of a joke in the way people would have bristled at the Beatles continuing on as the Beatles without Lennon or McCartney in the band. But the days of bands like the Beatles or Led Zeppelin or other big bands ending when a critical member left (or died) sorta ended many years ago..... too much money at stake.
I'm sure many of you like "The Final Cut," but the public reception to it was not good, and it was the lowest selling Pink Floyd album in over a decade. "Momentary Lapse of Reason" sold over ten million copies worldwide versus "Cut's" three. That's wildly successful. In many ways I think Gilmour had a better handle on what people expected and wanted Pink Floyd to sound like than Waters did. Sure Waters wrote most of the classic stuff, but Dave knew how to make Pink Floyd sound like Pink Floyd, and was smart enough to bring in a bunch of people to help him do that.
Even if Waters had kept the Pink Floyd name, essentially turning Pink Floyd into the Roger Waters solo show was not the sound that people wanted.
I agree that Gilmour certainly has a more melodic sensibility, in both voice and music, than Waters, although, as you indicated, he brought in a literal army to help him: songwriters, lyricists, and Ezrin. And neither Rick Wright nor really Nick Mason played on it- so it was a well-done facsimile.
It never sounded like Floyd to me because the lyrics were a huge stepdown from Waters -- and the lyrics are an integral part to Pink Floyd to me. For example, Comfortably Numb wouldn't be the same with Learning to Fly lyrics -- those lyrics in the bridge/chorus are critical. But I know I"m in the minority since many people seem clueless about what the lyrics are, much less what they mean.
I think the Billy Squier and Quiet Riot examples are historically overblown and just get repeated the more everyone keeps repeating them.
Not at all. it happened exactly the way “history” describes it. Billy Squier was always really popular with the “normies” into hard rock and he wasn’t exactly “butch” (just watch clips of the stroke or his other early videos). Even though I’d heard forever that he was “gay” and it didn’t matter at all to anyone, there was something so cringe about that video that just put people off big-time. It wasn’t JUST a “gay” thing. It’s hard to describe, but it was definitely a real thing. The world wasn’t terrified of “gay” by the ‘80s like people want everyone to believe these days. Especially MTV where you had Boy George and Wham and where half the new wave bands had members who made Billy Squier look like Chuck Norris.
Same for QR. my friends and I were all into metal-lite by then, but Kevin’s nonstop big mouth just got to be SO annoying. Also, although everyone liked a couple songs NO ONE was like “QR are my favorite metal band!” unlike Priest or Maiden. Everyone knew they were “OK” with a good guitarist but that Kevin’s ego was beyond delusional. People just got so sick of his comments that he couldn’t really back up (the fact that he was a total dork didn’t help). QR success was a fluke in the first place, largely due to “metal” creeping into the mainstream and mostly because of the RR tie-in. RR was already a legend right up there with EVH.
RR had ZERO association with any success that QR enjoyed. Those 1st 2 albums with him were so bad they were never released in the States, and with good reason - they're barely garage-band level. MTV and Spencer Proffer made QR into a success, however fleeting.
I said due to the RR TIE-IN, not because those albums with Randy were any good. You don’t think the fact that they were Randy’s (and Rudy’s) old band being mentioned constantly had anything to do with their mediocre music suddenly setting the world on fire? It definitely did. It’s about the only reason my friends and I, who were all Sabbath/Ozzy fans, gave them a listen. Without the Randy thing they were barely worth checking out at all. It wasn’t just MTV or we would have all bought the newest Flock of Seagulls and Duran Duran albums. Everyone into heavier music at the time knew about the RR (AND RUDY) history and it was definitely a big deal to us. QR basically sucked.
Good call, the only things Jayne and the Bankrobber did that made any sense since 1985 were Live Aid, reunion with Halford and the British Steel Anniversary aka. Damage Control tour. Maybe Turbo 30, not bad anniversary deluxe with fresh remaster and a full unreleased concert from the era. I can almost forgive them for not making it 4 discs with the full 18 track Twin Turbos album.
Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑
LI is a gentleman and scholar but that “Parasite” take is wild!
Good call, the only things Jayne and the Bankrobber did that made any sense since 1985 were Live Aid, reunion with Halford and the British Steel Anniversary aka. Damage Control tour. Maybe Turbo 30, not bad anniversary deluxe with fresh remaster and a full unreleased concert from the era. I can almost forgive them for not making it 4 discs with the full 18 track Twin Turbos album.
I wonder if Smallwood would have taken them on, around 84-85 when they needed new management. They had taken on WASP, Priest had to be a surer bet. Maybe having "the competition" under the same management didnt make sense.
Curbishly sure started with a bang: "Here, I got you on the biggest gig on the planet, the only metal band on the bill besides a reunited Sabbath. That all right, lads?" There just wasnt a lot of masterful stuff after that.
LAglamrocker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:07 pm
You can tell Sleek had nothing to do with this…thats why it’s so entertaining
soulonfire wrote: ↑Wed May 21, 2025 11:21 am
Spin Doctors releasing Cleopatra's Cat as the first single from their second album. Killed their career dead.
THIS
Surely there has to be ONE song better than this one in their second album.
Who idiot chose this turd as a single? It was everywhere for something like 1 week or so and then NOTHING. I guess people stared phoning radio stations not to play that piece of garbage no more.
Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Tue May 20, 2025 10:09 pmI kinda wonder about Soul Asylum. Did they do something to fuck things up?
Had a huge album, massive hype for the follow-up, then it suddenly ended after the "Misery" single. The next album got ZERO MTV play. Could only see their videos on The Box (a phone-in video channel) at that point.
Nothing I remember, this seems to have been a Quiet Riot / Twisted Sister situation where a band that was unsuccessful all of a sudden blows up, has hit singles and sells a ton of albums and then the next one doesn't live up to the hype and they are back to their "natural" level. Soul Asylum made it big with their sixth album.
Great point.
They were for sure known prior to Grave Dancers Union, but it was the video for Runaway Train that put them over the top. As that video ran its course, so did the bands new found popularity.
CrankerBait wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 12:07 pm
A few of the examples in that clip - Roger Waters leaving Pink Floyd and declaring it dead and Billy Squier's weird video, for example - I was thinking of before I started watching. (Waters, the egomaniac that he is, deserved what he got at the time, though I think Billy got a raw deal.) Not sure I agree with Quiet Riot and Dubrow shooting his mouth off sinking them. They weren't that great to begin with - the songs, the vocals and the musicianship weren't very good - and they showed with Condition Critical they were never going to come close to following up the debut. (Metal Health hasn't exactly aged that well either.)
Dave Roth talked a lot of shit too. I think I’ve seen either a show at the Montreal Forum or maybe it was the US Festival where he trashes on The Clash. He also trash talked Dubrow and QR. Why was Roth allowed to but not Kevin? Do we excuse bad behavior if the “goods” are delivered? We seem to. QR didn’t exactly deliver them in spades. One B or C band that did was Krokus imo. But they were kicked to curb by the mid to late 80s too.
I concur with your Billy sentiments. He did get a raw deal.
Waters rebounded his career even if he hurt it initially. I remember when he toured The Wall years ago. There was a huge buzz about it. While I don’t discount his contributions to Pink Floyd, I’m not a fan of his. I’m firmly on Team Gilmour. F*ck, I don’t even like the Sid era. Without David, there is no Pink Floyd.
Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Wed May 21, 2025 6:32 pm
This is almost as bad as take as the guy who said that Led Zeppelin weren't A-list... almost.
Sleek? I don’t know Bono. That was pretty bad. I was surprised by that.
Asinine really. Any band that can sell out football stadiums in America with no opening bands is beyond A-list. The reason they never did tv is because they made a personal choice not to. They were inundated with offers for that type of shit and refused all of them. Not A-list lol. Fuck off with that nonsense..
Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Wed May 21, 2025 6:32 pm
This is almost as bad as take as the guy who said that Led Zeppelin weren't A-list... almost.
Sleek? I don’t know Bono. That was pretty bad. I was surprised by that.
Asinine really. Any band that can sell out football stadiums in America with no opening bands is beyond A-list. The reason they never did tv is because they made a personal choice not to. They were inundated with offers for that type of shit and refused all of them. Not A-list lol. Fuck off with that nonsense..
It's a fucked take, especially since he worked in the business.
veritas wrote: ↑Wed May 21, 2025 3:37 pm
Wow, late to this thread, but Sleek is pulling a Moggio here.
It's absolutely idiotic to contend Zep weren't A-listers in the 1970s.
Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:13 am
Dave Roth talked a lot of shit too. I think I’ve seen either a show at the Montreal Forum or maybe it was the US Festival where he trashes on The Clash. He also trash talked Dubrow and QR. Why was Roth allowed to but not Kevin?
Roth was cool and his sense of humor made the trash talking funny. He was also speaking from a position of power, the rock god of the 80s if you like
Krokus and DuBrow never were funny and sounded like bitter wannabes. See also Dee Snider, a slightly smarter version of those.
"Here today, gone later today" - DLR about grunge rockers replacing hair bands in the 90s.
Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑
LI is a gentleman and scholar but that “Parasite” take is wild!
If you can walk the walk, you can get away with talking the talk.
Roth was one of the coolest guys alive in the 80s. Teenager rockers went and bought an album of Vegas showtunes because Roth was singing 'em. He could say whatever he wanted.
Meanwhile Kevin looked like an angry pizza delivery driver. No one wanted to hear what he had to say - which made him angrier and accelerated his hair loss.
If Beavis joined a hair band as the 3rd guy to the right.
The 3rd guy to the right is the fucking MAN. And yes, this horrible idea 100% killed their career for sure. I was a HUGE fan and the album before this is easily in my top 10 metal albums of all time.
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 5:24 pm
also.... Wings.
The public didn't ask for or want Paul McCartney to form some corny ass new band with his wife. Would have probably sold double the records as a solo artist.
Disagree. Guilty pleasure. Lotta good, almost great songs
Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:13 am
Dave Roth talked a lot of shit too. I think I’ve seen either a show at the Montreal Forum or maybe it was the US Festival where he trashes on The Clash. He also trash talked Dubrow and QR. Why was Roth allowed to but not Kevin?
Roth was cool and his sense of humor made the trash talking funny. He was also speaking from a position of power, the rock god of the 80s if you like
Krokus and DuBrow never were funny and sounded like bitter wannabes. See also Dee Snider, a slightly smarter version of those.
"Here today, gone later today" - DLR about grunge rockers replacing hair bands in the 90s.
Roth was good in small does.
He’s one to talk. DLR was washed up before grunge ever hit big. He lost Billy in ‘87, lost Vai in ‘89, and lost his hairline in ‘91. It was all over by ALAE.
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 4:54 pm
If you can walk the walk, you can get away with talking the talk.
Roth was one of the coolest guys alive in the 80s. Teenager rockers went and bought an album of Vegas showtunes because Roth was singing 'em. He could say whatever he wanted.
Meanwhile Kevin looked like an angry pizza delivery driver. No one wanted to hear what he had to say - which made him angrier and accelerated his hair loss.
Speak for yourself. I didn’t buy that shit
Kevin and Dave were both follically challenged. Dave was wearing rugs by ‘86.
Both of them were also a couple of delusional coke heads. By the mid and later 80s even old man Coverdale was looking and sounding alot cooler. I had moved on. They were a couple of wash ups
Sleek? I don’t know Bono. That was pretty bad. I was surprised by that.
Asinine really. Any band that can sell out football stadiums in America with no opening bands is beyond A-list. The reason they never did tv is because they made a personal choice not to. They were inundated with offers for that type of shit and refused all of them. Not A-list lol. Fuck off with that nonsense..
It's a fucked take, especially since he worked in the business.
Super fucked. Must be all the hairspray he inhaled
Asinine really. Any band that can sell out football stadiums in America with no opening bands is beyond A-list. The reason they never did tv is because they made a personal choice not to. They were inundated with offers for that type of shit and refused all of them. Not A-list lol. Fuck off with that nonsense..
It's a fucked take, especially since he worked in the business.
Super fucked. Must be all the hairspray he inhaled
He’s caught up in Bee Gees harmonic structure & Pulp & London suede.
He’s way far advanced from hair metal and one of its 3 founders
Dave Muffstaine wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 11:15 am
Two words: John & Corabi. /thread
Sammy Hagar
Considering the first three Van Hagar albums all went multi-platinum in the US, I'd hardly call that a bad career decision, even if they were somewhat of a drop off from Roth-era VH album sales. Rothtards gonna Rothtard, though.
LAglamrocker wrote:
Trixter is awesome but everyone has seen After The Rain video correct? That’s one of first things I’m going thank God for
Dave Muffstaine wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 11:15 am
Two words: John & Corabi. /thread
Sammy Hagar
Considering the first three Van Hagar albums all went multi-platinum in the US, I'd hardly call that a bad career decision, even if they were somewhat of a drop off from Roth-era VH album sales. Rothtards gonna Rothtard, though.
They kept selling albums and concert tickets on pure name-brand recognition, but creatively they weren't anywhere near the same level. 5150 was good. The other 3 records weren't.
veritas wrote: ↑Wed May 21, 2025 3:37 pm
Wow, late to this thread, but Sleek is pulling a Moggio here.
It's absolutely idiotic to contend Zep weren't A-listers in the 1970s.
Rocker4Real wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 7:19 am
Steve Vai's band Vai. He's not much of a songwriter. If he was gonna go that route, he needed to collaborate and not run the whole show.
Desmond Child cowrote In My Dreams With You. Maybe the only good song on that record.
Rocker4Real wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 7:19 am
Steve Vai's band Vai. He's not much of a songwriter. If he was gonna go that route, he needed to collaborate and not run the whole show.
Desmond Child cowrote In My Dreams With You. Maybe the only good song on that record.
And yet the opening single was an aggressive Metal song promoted on Headbanger's Ball. It seemed like he was just throwing out songs in all directions to see what sticks.
. It seems he has experience with bad career decisions. Still, he remains one of my favorite guitarists.
