A Serious Question For The Acetards

[eddie lee roth]

I’m not trolling or anything with this response. I’m just curious if you’ll see my point of view. I think you need to be like a fortune cookie and “use your time wisely.”

Were you polishing your 1978 Ace Frehley belt buckle as you typed this?

No. I was gluing the neck back on the guitar of my Alive era Ace doll.

[EatTheGlass]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

[Wiseacre]

Been a fan since 1977. Until the internet I had no idea Ace didn't play the solo on "Sweet Pain". When I learned this I had to think really, really hard about how that solo went. I never had to do this for any of Ace's solos. That should tell you something.

There are million people who could passably mimic an EVH solo, but none of those people would have ever some up with the original blue-print.

Ace was a great fit for KISS. That's it. He was at least as good as the other musicians in the band, and arguably better than any of them in their particular role. That's what a band is all about. He was able to take a handful of licks and a few basic runs and turn them into simple, but very memorable solos that pretty much always elevated the song.

Add to that he looked as was as cool as hell and when we are talking about a visual band like KISS, this is more important than anything else.

Take away the makeup and all the rest and 30 or 40 years of people playing more and faster and he pales in comparison, but who doesn't? Not many. Ace is what he is, but more importantly he was what he was when it really mattered and is a BIG part of why we even discuss this meat and potatoes RnR band after 50 years. What he is now is not really relevant at all any more than Paul Stanley having zero singing ability now. Paul will always be the rock star he was in 1977 within the context of 1977 just like Ace.

As for ghosting, Ace was ghosted FAR less than Gene, but the difference was that none of those other players tried to "sound like Gene". That should also tell you something about Ace.

Did your listen to Sweet Pain very often? It’s not like it was ever a staple in the set list, radio hit or a fan favorite. I would have to think really hard about the solo in Getaway too. I never listened to that song.

Look, I love Ace and he was great for what he was. But fans tend to put him in on the same level as a Page, Clapton, Hendrix and Beck which I find laughable. The fact fans think he blows Slash away says it all. Even at Slash’s lowest, he managed to put out those two Snakepit records which bury any of the Frehley’s Comet material.

If you’ve really listened to the band and gone back to it’s Wicked Lester days, love him or hate him, Gene is by far the best musician in the band. I’d love to see Ace do what Gene did; playing those often times McCartney-inspired bass lines while either covering a two, sometimes three part harmony or singing lead with all that gear on, jumping around and performing like a maniac. Ace could not have done any of that.

Going back to Wicked Lester, they were actually a very good band with very good musicianship. Gene plays his ass off and plays some really interesting, at time intricate passages. He’s much better than Ace fans and critics want to give him credit for.

Of course I knew every note of every KISS song and I lived and breathed that band since ‘77. We didn’t listen to “songs” back then, we played the whole record. I still can’t think of the Sweet Pain solo.

Gene is a highly underrated musician, but stopped caring after Alive and although he is a solid player he never had his own style really. He was just doing what he learned from playing covers. And as for playing and singing at the same time isn’t simple, but it also isn’t rare. I fronted a thrash band and played and sang counter and poly rhythms 10x harder than anything Gene ever did. It’s just something that some people can do and it takes practice to get the muscle memory down.

Again, Gene was OFTEN ghosted and no one noticed because by the time Gene stopped caring, no one tried to “sound like Gene”. With a few obvious exceptions like Dirty Livin or IWMFLY no one really thought it didn’t sound like Gene.

Ace’s “simple” solos are stone cold classics. It isn’t about speed at all. He could play a single unison bend, increasing the note value with each pass like 100,000 Years and make it work. In those cases he let the music underneath “move” and holding those single notes accented that. The little noodly thing he does over that descending chord progression is so good. He also used really cool 3-over-4 rhythms and other interesting timing in very memorable ways. Solos like Firehouse which is completely built around that pick stutter with alternating and variations is totally brilliant. Got to Choose is another GREAT example of repetition and simplicity that completely elevated the song. So many great examples of this sort of thing.

People who think Ace only ran a few blues scales or Page licks thrown together don’t have a clue. Ace was one of the very best solo- builders of the entire RnR genre. Even Page never had memorable solos aside from maybe Stairway although he is obviously a very good and versatile player. What Page did with super-simple but memorable riffs, Ace did with his solos. Most Zeppelin riffs aren’t complex or hard to play, but they are absolutely brilliantly hooky.

[Wiseacre]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

[Love_Industry]

.

Again, Gene was OFTEN ghosted and no one noticed because by the time Gene stopped caring, no one tried to “sound like Gene”. With a few obvious exceptions like Dirty Livin or IWMFLY no one really thought it didn’t sound like Gene.

The irony is that both of those songs are Gene. And Peter on DL. Ace played bass on his songs and Paul on one or two of his.. but not IWMFLY.

Dynasty is a lot more of a band album than was previously thought, there are hours of tapes of all 4 rehearsing and working out the songs in the studio.

Unmasked is another story, half the album has only one Kiss member on it, Ace and Paul play all guitars on their songs except the bass on Shandi. The Stsnley/Fig/Harper/Knight line-up is underrated!

[Wiseacre]

.

Again, Gene was OFTEN ghosted and no one noticed because by the time Gene stopped caring, no one tried to “sound like Gene”. With a few obvious exceptions like Dirty Livin or IWMFLY no one really thought it didn’t sound like Gene.

The irony is that both of those songs are Gene. And Peter on DL. Ace played bass on his songs and Paul on one or two of his.. but not IWMFLY.

Dynasty is a lot more of a band album than was previously thought, there are hours of tapes of all 4 rehearsing and working out the songs in the studio.

Unmasked is another story, half the album has only one Kiss member on it, Ace and Paul play all guitars on their songs except the bass on Shandi. The Stsnley/Fig/Harper/Knight line-up is underrated!

Not ironic at all. Neither song is “classic” Gene on bass which was my point. I still find it hard to believe Gene plays on Dirty Livin. He is a good player, but if he played that part he probably didn’t come up with it.

Also just because Gene is on the rehearsal tapes does not mean he is on the album. Paul played bass on Sure Know Something and if Gene DID play bad on IWMFLY (which I doubt) it’s funny that he never, ever played it the same way live as it is played on the album. He often used octaves, but he plays this one completely staccato live and not at all like the album. Gene also played rhythm guitar on a lot of his own songs as well. Dynasty was basically like the Beatles White album with everyone pretty much doing their own thing. Ace played bass in Shock Me too. They guys often played everything on their own songs.

[pieceofme]

Wiseacre hitting the nail on the head in this thread.

[EatTheGlass]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

Get it? GET WHAT?

Sure, Ace had some tasty licks and had a memorable influence on one of the greatest rock bands ever.....45 YEARS AGO. Since then, all he ever has done is deteriorate in regards to his guitar playing skills. Not to mention, he's a fucking idiot.

[aznsquirt]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

I know this sounds romantic but it's not all THAT true.

Plenty of those "couple dozen" guys anyone cares about made their name as shredders.

More importantly, the vast majority of "tasty" (for lack of a better term) guitar players were still at the mercy of the songs that they were playing on.

[dmbrocker]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

I know this sounds romantic but it's not all THAT true.

Plenty of those "couple dozen" guys anyone cares about made their name as shredders.

More importantly, the vast majority of "tasty" (for lack of a better term) guitar players were still at the mercy of the songs that they were playing on.

This as well, but I see where Wiseacre is coming from. Some songs are so bad that a good guitar riff or solo can't help overcome it, though a good solo/riff does help quite a bit when making a good rock song.

[Wiseacre]

Plenty of those "couple dozen" guys anyone cares about made their name as shredders.

I never said you can't shred and be great. EVH and RR did it. But it wasn't JUST technique and that's my point. it's what you play and how/when, not necessarily how fast or technically "good" it is. Look at Zeppelin and Sabbath. There are a thousand metal bands who play crazy, fast, technical stuff and as soon as their set is over, you forget everything you just heard. But those bands knew how to write riffs you remember. Same for a good solo, IMO. There is a place for technical appreciation and all of that, but when people shit on someone like Ace they really aren't seeing past the makeup or sloppy videos (or recent trainwrecks). For me, Ace's solos are far more catchy and memorable than just about anything other guys like Page or Perry played. people completely minimize his gift for great phrasing (and yeah, Gene and others likely helped hone that with their melodic sense) and his relatively distinctive sound. There were a number Ace-isms that weren't JUST stock Page rip-offs.

There are tons of guys from the '70s who did just that and some were "better" or faster players than Ace, but his solos had a real charm to them which is totally missed by lots of people (even guitarists). Some people want to lump Ace in with Steve Jones or the Twisted Sister guys or the Dolls or the many nameless/faceless blues-based nobodies from that era like he was just some total 1st year-guitarist hack doing chuck berry licks and 10 note solos. That wasn't the case at all. He played to the song and that's not as easy and some people think. And the talk of him not "growing" is BS. Very few guitarists (who aren't like guitar "gods") constantly evolve in their playing (like Glenn Tipton did for example). Did Iommi or Perry or Page or most guys with a distinct style change much after their prime? Did Gilmour? Did Clapton? They did "their" thing and so did Ace. Ace had a great tone even into the Comet and solo era even if he didn't have as much help piecing together super-memorable solos like he did in those early years (or was too lazy). He played better on his first couple solo albums than he did at his supposed peak in '77/'78. Paul's nonsense talk was just an excuse to replace him with a "shredder" to be like all of the other bands of the time. Paul hasn't improved since KISS started and like someone else said above he still can't play the simple intro to Black Diamond after 50 years. The fact that he was doing a "solo" spot in '84 and Bruce wasn't is laughable, but ego is a helluva thing.

BTW, my favorite guitarists (among many) are Ace, David Gilmour and Gary Moore all for very different reasons. Gilmour can make his guitar sing like no one else and always plays 100% of the "right" notes no matter the song and Gary could shred like the best, but also had an amazing ear for phrasing (talking about his early pre-straight-blues-era stuff which I find boring). Gary is also a good example of how even a crap or mediocre song can still have an amazing solo. His playing on his '80s stuff is top of my list, personally and his solo on "Shapes of Things" is a lesson is how to construct a PERFECT guitar solo.

The way he starts with the vocal melody, then varies it, then kinda shreds, then takes it down only to perfectly build back up for the next verse it pure solo perfection. As good as it gets...

https://youtu.be/XEcdONWfbZw?si=tWoGm5ApoDrVVNio&t=123

[aznsquirt]

Plenty of those "couple dozen" guys anyone cares about made their name as shredders.

I never said you can't shred and be great. EVH and RR did it. But it wasn't JUST technique and that's my point.

I'm not reading that wall of HIV. And that was my point. I wasn't talking about EVH and RR, there are plenty of guys who are basically just technique and got plenty of fame and career out of it.

Your romantic notion just isn't really as true as you want it to be, that's all.

[Wiseacre]

Plenty of those "couple dozen" guys anyone cares about made their name as shredders.

I never said you can't shred and be great. EVH and RR did it. But it wasn't JUST technique and that's my point.

I'm not reading that wall of HIV. And that was my point. I wasn't talking about EVH and RR, there are plenty of guys who are basically just technique and got plenty of fame and career out of it.

Your romantic notion just isn't really as true as you want it to be, that's all.

clown. Got it.

[Tommy2Tone84]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

I “get it”
J
Did Ace have some cool and interesting licks and leads at times? Sure, 100,000 Years comes to mind. I actually like his major pentatonic licks in Let Me Go Rock N Roll. Was he a one in a million with an X factor that “made” the band? No

Could KISS still have succeeded and been just as good or better with a Bob Kulick or Dick Wagner?Absolutely

A player doesn’t have to be a master technician for me to like them. I’m an Ace, Angus and Slash fan for God’s sake.

A number of KISS fans need to admit to themselves that Ace and KISS worked well together up until a certain point but at times it stopped working until it stopped working altogether.

The whole irony of not picking Bob Kulick “the dork” for the “cool kid” Ace is everything KISS wasn’t supposed to be about. Paul has talked at length about he grew up an insecure nerd with a birth defect. He and Bob probably had much more in common personally than Ace did. Gene wasn’t exactly Mister Rock and Roll. He was just a lost Jewish immigrant trying to find and make his way in the Big Apple and America. The concept of KISS was creating an alter ego to gain the confidence you didn’t have in the real world.

Bob didn’t seem like he took a lot of shit off people. He would’ve been good for the band and was a much better player than Ace. Paul and Gene were dorks and nerds. So was Bob. He easily could’ve gotten into the whole clown show trip and created a cool alter ego that we all identified and connected with. Musically, Bob was a fantastic player. He has great sense of feel and melody, had fantastic phrasing and really played his ass off. He was also a much more diverse and better player than Ace. They could’ve adapted more easily and experimented more easily with Bob than they ever did with Ace.

[Tommy2Tone84]

I used to think Ace was a guitar god....until I learned how to play the guitar.

It’s amazing how many guitar players just don’t “get it”. This is why there are a million guitarists and a couple dozen anyone cares about. Technique is for the nerds, but the real magic is what touches people. Few have it and most don’t even understand it.

Get it? GET WHAT?

Sure, Ace had some tasty licks and had a memorable influence on one of the greatest rock bands ever.....45 YEARS AGO. Since then, all he ever has done is deteriorate in regards to his guitar playing skills. Not to mention, he's a fucking idiot.

EatTheGlass hitting the nail on the head

[Tommy2Tone84]

Ace helped bring guitar out of the boring “authentic” blues based bullshit of the 70s - his solos were hummable and had great tone.
And he was cool for younger kids.

I’ve heard nothing Dick Wagner did for Kiss that was worth an ounce of shit.

I really like Bob Kulick’s playing but he doesn’t sound like Ace & even said the bosses never told him to cop Ace

Furthermore, i haven’t seen anyone on here talk about Ace being one in a million. He gets slagged on but rightly thought of fondly for our formative years. He’s the gateway into modern 80s rock.
Even risingfarce slags on him

TL/DR: another wtf post from tommy2bongs

You realize many of KISS’s early songs were blues based and Ace named “boring authentic” like Hendrix, Page, and Clapton and his main influences. He was playing blues based licks all over those albums.

I know your klassic belt buckle collection is cool and all but Wagner’s solo on Sweet Pain

Dick plays Ace better than Ace does all over Destroyer #Facts

Interesting take on Bob considering so many Acetards act like he’s an Ace Clone. I agree with you to a point. Bob and Ace are only about a year apart and had many of the same seminal influences. They sound similar at times but Bob’s playing on the likes of Paul’s solo album, Side 4 of A2, Unmasked, Killers and most likely much of The Elder are as good and at times better than anything Ace did with the band. Bob absolutely slays it on Paul’s solo album. While I’m not a fan of one or two songs off that album, I can listen to his guitar playing all day on that album. Ace’s playing on Move On live, while not bad, isn’t at the same level Bob’s is. That’s actually where I started to notice cracks in Ace’s playing, when I first saw the Largo ‘79 show in the late 80s.

His playing on Killers is literally killer. Bob was a real talent and one hell of a guitarist. Much better than he ever got credit for.

[aznsquirt]

I never said you can't shred and be great. EVH and RR did it. But it wasn't JUST technique and that's my point.

I'm not reading that wall of HIV. And that was my point. I wasn't talking about EVH and RR, there are plenty of guys who are basically just technique and got plenty of fame and career out of it.

Your romantic notion just isn't really as true as you want it to be, that's all.

clown. Got it.

No offense, but you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash. So the rest of your opinions on music make a lot of sense.

[Tommy2Tone84]

I'm not reading that wall of HIV. And that was my point. I wasn't talking about EVH and RR, there are plenty of guys who are basically just technique and got plenty of fame and career out of it.

Your romantic notion just isn't really as true as you want it to be, that's all.

clown. Got it.

No offense, but you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash. So the rest of your opinions on music make a lot of sense.

Wiseacre can’t tell the difference between hardcore and thrash?

[aznsquirt]

clown. Got it.

No offense, but you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash. So the rest of your opinions on music make a lot of sense.

Wiseacre can’t tell the difference between hardcore and thrash?

Not to harp on him, but when I was trying to make the case that Fight Fire With Fire was a pioneering thrash song, his counterargument was basically that it was nothing new because DRI and Suicidal Tendencies already existed.

I tried to be nice about it at the time, but it's clear his ear for music isn't as honed as he thinks. And it fits pretty well with all of his other opinions.

[Wiseacre]

you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash.

So, the guy whose band toured with DRI, Overkill, Megadeth and Death and opened for Cro-Mags, , Vio-Lence and C.O.C. In addition to festivals with everyone from Kreator to Death Angel to Forbidden over the last 35 years doesn’t know the difference between hardcore punk and thrash? Mkay.

[Wiseacre]

No offense, but you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash. So the rest of your opinions on music make a lot of sense.

Wiseacre can’t tell the difference between hardcore and thrash?

Not to harp on him, but when I was trying to make the case that Fight Fire With Fire was a pioneering thrash song, his counterargument was basically that it was nothing new because DRI and Suicidal Tendencies already existed.

I tried to be nice about it at the time, but it's clear his ear for music isn't as honed as he thinks. And it fits pretty well with all of his other opinions.

Metallica already had thrash songs on their debut which we had all heard before RTL. I never said only punk bands played fast. No one shit themselves over FFWF when the album came out aside from you I guess because it was oh-so-brutal. It wasn’t a huge deal like you think. I still think it’s the weakest song on my favorite album by the band.

[aznsquirt]

you're the one who can't tell the difference between hardcore punk and thrash.

So, the guy whose band toured with DRI, Overkill, Megadeth and Death and opened for Cro-Mags, , Vio-Lence and C.O.C. In addition to festivals with everyone from Kreator to Death Angel to Forbidden over the last 35 years doesn’t know the difference between hardcore punk and thrash? Mkay.

It's generally true that the first person to cite their credentials is the one who can't back up their arguments.

But, since you decided to go there, I guess it's worth mentioning that I've literally performed on stage with DRI, Dublin Death Patrol, I've filled in for Jack Gibson (from Exodus) in his side projects, and if you give me a day or two, I might be able to dig up some footage of me jamming with Perry Strickland and Phil Demmel, and if I ask around, I can probably dig up a demo with Paul Bostaph and Dan Nelson

So now that we got the irrelevant dick swinging out of the way, can we get back to the subject matter?

The bottom line is if that you can't tell the difference between early DRI, Suicidal and early thrash, I don't know what to tell you.

Honest question, my dude. Are you from the Bay Area? If so, we've probably rubbed shoulders. And if you are and are still there, I'd love to buy you a beer, talk shop, and laugh about stupid internet beef.

[aznsquirt]

Wiseacre can’t tell the difference between hardcore and thrash?

Not to harp on him, but when I was trying to make the case that Fight Fire With Fire was a pioneering thrash song, his counterargument was basically that it was nothing new because DRI and Suicidal Tendencies already existed.

I tried to be nice about it at the time, but it's clear his ear for music isn't as honed as he thinks. And it fits pretty well with all of his other opinions.

Metallica already had thrash songs on their debut which we had all heard before RTL. I never said only punk bands played fast. No one shit themselves over FFWF when the album came out aside from you I guess because it was oh-so-brutal. It wasn’t a huge deal like you think. I still think it’s the weakest song on my favorite album by the band.

And like I said, I totally respected your opinion in that thread. But we were never going to totally agree, given that you kept equating early hardcore punk to early thrash.

P.S. now you got me blasting Exodus' Turk Street Demo, hahaha. Can we at least agree what a shame it is that Bonded By Blood didn't come out a year earlier?

[Wiseacre]

It's generally true that the first person to cite their credentials is the one who can't back up their arguments.

That's just dumb. My credentials DO back up my arguments.

[aznsquirt]

It's generally true that the first person to cite their credentials is the one who can't back up their arguments.

That's just dumb. My credentials DO back up my arguments.

No, they really don't. The only value they have is if someone who doesn't have an opinion or knowledge of the subject matter needs a way to determine who to trust.

And the people who quickly cite their credentials are generally the ones who can't argue their point.

I've known plenty of musicians with all kinds of credentials who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Wiseacre]

It's generally true that the first person to cite their credentials is the one who can't back up their arguments.

That's just dumb. My credentials DO back up my arguments.

No, they really don't. The only value they have is if someone who doesn't have an opinion or knowledge of the subject matter needs a way to determine who to trust.

And the people who quickly cite their credentials are generally the ones who can't argue their point.

I've known plenty of musicians with all kinds of credentials who have no idea what they're talking about.

Dude, my "credentials" are that I was listening to and sharing stages with Thrash and Hardcore Punk Bands since the '80s and obviously know the difference. You said I didn't. You are wrong and my "credentials" should illustrate that (even though your claim was not based on anything I actually said and I've already explained that to you again). This whole "the one who calls someone a nazi first..." internet thing is not relevant here and you know it. What next? "ad hominem", "straw man" yadda, yadda? We all know internet debate 101.

I'm not saying "I have a PHD in punk rock therefore..." I simply said FFWT was nothing all that groundbreaking. NOT ONLY because punk bands played fast already, but because METALLICA THEMSELVES (among many other metal bands) already had an album full of very fast songs. Just because they turned the beat over with the snare on 1 and 3 doesn't mean it was suddenly "faster" than any metal band including themselves. if that doesn't make the point (again), I don't know what else to say. FFWF was apparently James' first attempt to write a really, fast and heavy song by himself and it pales in comparison to Battery, Damage and other shit that came later. I think it lacks a LOT of what made them great back then.

[Wiseacre]

Peace out, brothers. Ace himself wouldn't care this much.

Ace has to be the laziest guy ever. He's only still out there playing because he needs the money. Regardless, his legacy and influence are undeniable.

This

[aznsquirt]

lol

[Dyslexicheart]

Been a fan since 1977. Until the internet I had no idea Ace didn't play the solo on "Sweet Pain". When I learned this I had to think really, really hard about how that solo went. I never had to do this for any of Ace's solos. That should tell you something.

There are million people who could passably mimic an EVH solo, but none of those people would have ever some up with the original blue-print.

Ace was a great fit for KISS. That's it. He was at least as good as the other musicians in the band, and arguably better than any of them in their particular role. That's what a band is all about. He was able to take a handful of licks and a few basic runs and turn them into simple, but very memorable solos that pretty much always elevated the song.

Add to that he looked as was as cool as hell and when we are talking about a visual band like KISS, this is more important than anything else.




Take away the makeup and all the rest and 30 or 40 years of people playing more and faster and he pales in comparison, but who doesn't? Not many. Ace is what he is, but more importantly he was what he was when it really mattered and is a BIG part of why we even discuss this meat and potatoes RnR band after 50 years. What he is now is not really relevant at all any more than Paul Stanley having zero singing ability now. Paul will always be the rock star he was in 1977 within the context of 1977 just like Ace.

As for ghosting, Ace was ghosted FAR less than Gene, but the difference was that none of those other players tried to "sound like Gene". That should also tell you something about Ace.

Did your listen to Sweet Pain very often? It’s not like it was ever a staple in the set list, radio hit or a fan favorite. I would have to think really hard about the solo in Getaway too. I never listened to that song.

Look, I love Ace and he was great for what he was. But fans tend to put him in on the same level as a Page, Clapton, Hendrix and Beck which I find laughable. The fact fans think he blows Slash away says it all. Even at Slash’s lowest, he managed to put out those two Snakepit records which bury any of the Frehley’s Comet material.

If you’ve really listened to the band and gone back to it’s Wicked Lester days, love him or hate him, Gene is by far the best musician in the band. I’d love to see Ace do what Gene did; playing those often times McCartney-inspired bass lines while either covering a two, sometimes three part harmony or singing lead with all that gear on, jumping around and performing like a maniac. Ace could not have done any of that.

Going back to Wicked Lester, they were actually a very good band with very good musicianship. Gene plays his ass off and plays some really interesting, at time intricate passages. He’s much better than Ace fans and critics want to give him credit for.

Literally nobody has said that Ace was at the same level as Page, Clapton, Hendrix and Beck. Nobody.

It’s pretty telling that your argument has come down to just making shit up, isn’t it?

Oh, and Eddie Kramer has publicly stated that Ace was the best musician in the band. He would know.

[HoldenSSV]

Literally nobody has said that Ace was at the same level as Page, Clapton, Hendrix and Beck. Nobody.

Oh, and Eddie Kramer has publicly stated that Ace was the best musician in the band. He would know.

You apparently didn't have to deal with some of the Ace/KISS fans that some of us did.

Regarding Eddie Kramer, given who the other three are, this is nothing more than an example of the idiom "damning with faint praise". Or "the prettiest turd in the bowl".