French/Ojeda - the worst 80s guitarists?

[Ozzy Stradlin]

JJ “Thumbs” French can’t play his way out of a wet paper bag.

He makes Randy Piper sound like Steve Lukather.

[SchenkerFan]

JJ “Thumbs” French can’t play his way out of a wet paper bag.

He makes Randy Piper sound like Steve Lukather.

Why is he called "Thumbs"? I know Ojeda is referred to as "Fingers" but I've never seen French referred to as "Thumbs".

[Wiseacre]

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

As good as Ace??? No. Ace wrote fantastically phrased solos and had a kickass feel and tone. Eddie sounded like he played whatever Dee hummed to him. Maybe as good as Paul.

You put Ace in your top three guitarists so that disqualifies you from commenting on other's guitar playing.

Gary Moore
Ace Frehley
David Gilmour

all the guitar I need

There’s way more to great guitar playing than shredding and these three covered all the bases for me. I stand by my list.

[woblinweebles]

Gary Moore
Ace Frehley
David Gilmour

all the guitar I need

There’s way more to great guitar playing than shredding and these three covered all the bases for me. I stand by my list.

Did you catch any of the shows that Ace did with Gary back in 87 opening for Y & T? Kind of an odd bill. GnR were initially listed as the opener, but that fell through and we got Faster Pussycat instead.

[keyofgee]

i liked a lot of their songs, however , they were just avg. players when it came to being their own without playing covers. They probably were smoking on covers. Some musicians are like that. They can copy a song note for note and tone for tone but can't write anything of their own to save themselves. Others are the exact opposite, I am somewhere in the middle I guess. Also, dee snider wrote all the lyrics and music so that's prolly why most of their catalog is songs consisting of standard root & 5th barre chords. Their tone fit the band but it was lame. It didn't hurt their careers though. I have guitar players friends I have played with in the 80's that I would have bet the farm they were gonna be first rate guitar gods. There was nothing they couldn't play or copy and looked like guitar gods. Here they still are, playing covers note for note and went no where. Its the luck of the draw. the appeal, hard work too I have to add, but its no guarantee. TS worked hard and was there at the moment it was needed. Success.

[Wiseacre]

Gary Moore
Ace Frehley
David Gilmour

all the guitar I need

There’s way more to great guitar playing than shredding and these three covered all the bases for me. I stand by my list.

Did you catch any of the shows that Ace did with Gary back in 87 opening for Y & T? Kind of an odd bill. GnR were initially listed as the opener, but that fell through and we got Faster Pussycat instead.

No, I never got toy see Gary live.

[woblinweebles]

Gary Moore
Ace Frehley
David Gilmour

all the guitar I need

There’s way more to great guitar playing than shredding and these three covered all the bases for me. I stand by my list.

Did you catch any of the shows that Ace did with Gary back in 87 opening for Y & T? Kind of an odd bill. GnR were initially listed as the opener, but that fell through and we got Faster Pussycat instead.

No, I never got toy see Gary live.

I had missed seeing him in 84 opening for Rush, so I was glad to see him, but it was weird to see him play a relatively short set in between Faster and Frehley's Comet. He had a great band, too - Bob Daisley on bass and Eric Singer on drums.

[Wiseacre]

Did you catch any of the shows that Ace did with Gary back in 87 opening for Y & T? Kind of an odd bill. GnR were initially listed as the opener, but that fell through and we got Faster Pussycat instead.

No, I never got toy see Gary live.

I had missed seeing him in 84 opening for Rush, so I was glad to see him, but it was weird to see him play a relatively short set in between Faster and Frehley's Comet. He had a great band, too - Bob Daisley on bass and Eric Singer on drums.

Wild Frontier I guess? That when I first heard of Eric Singer although the album famously featured a drum machine. Great album too but my faves are Corridors of Power and Victims of the Future. Perfect guitar solos all over those albums.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Yeah those were great. Wild Frontier sucked.

[Tenacious_Dio]

JJ French was no virtuoso, but to say he couldn't play is dumb. He had 70's bar band chops, because he was a 70's bar band guy.

This isn't DeMartini or Lynch level, but it's fine for a TS song:
https://youtu.be/20IUkQKFt1U?si=giy_hRW68qhEOuP6

[Wiseacre]

Yeah those were great. Wild Frontier sucked.

Over the Hills was awesome and it some other great tunes. His playing always made the songs worth listening to. I know Gary was always a big blues guy, but when he went full bluestard, I kinda lost interest.

[Anthrax442]

JJ “Thumbs” French can’t play his way out of a wet paper bag.

He makes Randy Piper sound like Steve Lukather.

You stumbled onto the obvious counter, Randy Piper and Chris Holmes.

[Earl Skakel]

I think French gets alot of shit for his personality not so much his playing. This guy comes off in interviews like a poor man's Gene Simmons.

[Ozzy Stradlin]

JJ “Thumbs” French can’t play his way out of a wet paper bag.

He makes Randy Piper sound like Steve Lukather.

Why is he called "Thumbs"? I know Ojeda is referred to as "Fingers" but I've never seen French referred to as "Thumbs".

You heard it here first.

JJ sounds like he plays with his thumbs.

[SchenkerFan]

JJ “Thumbs” French can’t play his way out of a wet paper bag.

He makes Randy Piper sound like Steve Lukather.

You stumbled onto the obvious counter, Randy Piper and Chris Holmes.

Holmes played some stuff on Headless Children that Ojeda and French can only dream of.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Yeah those were great. Wild Frontier sucked.

Over the Hills was awesome and it some other great tunes. His playing always made the songs worth listening to. I know Gary was always a big blues guy, but when he went full bluestard, I kinda lost interest.

Hated that. But can't blame him. He did it for the money after 10 years of starving in the shadows.

[Hair I Go Again]

The Frankie Bello reference was for my pleasure.

Mine too. Thanks for the chuckle.

[SchenkerFan]

Yeah those were great. Wild Frontier sucked.

Over the Hills was awesome and it some other great tunes. His playing always made the songs worth listening to. I know Gary was always a big blues guy, but when he went full bluestard, I kinda lost interest.

Hated that. But can't blame him. He did it for the money after 10 years of starving in the shadows.

I never read his bio or anything for that, but did switching to blues really bring in that much money? Still Got The Blues went gold but that's about it.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Over the Hills was awesome and it some other great tunes. His playing always made the songs worth listening to. I know Gary was always a big blues guy, but when he went full bluestard, I kinda lost interest.

Hated that. But can't blame him. He did it for the money after 10 years of starving in the shadows.

I never read his bio or anything for that, but did switching to blues really bring in that much money? Still Got The Blues went gold but that's about it.

Not yuge money, but most of his prior albums charted in the low 100s in the US.

[El Vampiro Blanco]

Over the Hills was awesome and it some other great tunes. His playing always made the songs worth listening to. I know Gary was always a big blues guy, but when he went full bluestard, I kinda lost interest.

Hated that. But can't blame him. He did it for the money after 10 years of starving in the shadows.

I never read his bio or anything for that, but did switching to blues really bring in that much money? Still Got The Blues went gold but that's about it.

But in Europe these albums were huge.... So yes there was quite a bit more money in it.
Of course he didn't know that until he released the first one.
Could also have happened his fans turning their back and the rest of the world not giving a fuck about his blues album.
The gamble paid off...

[Anthrax442]

Holmes played some stuff on Headless Children that Ojeda and French can only dream of.

I'd agree with that. Holmes, (when younger and sober), was decent.

Piper, on the other hand, was useless, as Blackie proved when he switched to rhythm to replace him.

So, when you had Piper and Holmes on an off day...wellllll.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Hated that. But can't blame him. He did it for the money after 10 years of starving in the shadows.

I never read his bio or anything for that, but did switching to blues really bring in that much money? Still Got The Blues went gold but that's about it.

But in Europe these albums were huge.... So yes there was quite a bit more money in it.
Of course he didn't know that until he released the first one.
Could also have happened his fans turning their back and the rest of the world not giving a fuck about his blues album.
The gamble paid off...

I hated it, I know he loved PG but it was like he was denying his talent. Like taking a Lambo to get coffee and cigs at the Wawa. Didn't fit.

[El Vampiro Blanco]

I never read his bio or anything for that, but did switching to blues really bring in that much money? Still Got The Blues went gold but that's about it.

But in Europe these albums were huge.... So yes there was quite a bit more money in it.
Of course he didn't know that until he released the first one.
Could also have happened his fans turning their back and the rest of the world not giving a fuck about his blues album.
The gamble paid off...

I hated it, I know he loved PG but it was like he was denying his talent. Like taking a Lambo to get coffee and cigs at the Wawa. Didn't fit.

Didnt like it either, but I never really liked any of his songs.
Just the guitar solos were great.
The only album with him that I really like is Thin Lizzy Black Rose.

[Bono Nettencourt]

But in Europe these albums were huge.... So yes there was quite a bit more money in it.
Of course he didn't know that until he released the first one.
Could also have happened his fans turning their back and the rest of the world not giving a fuck about his blues album.
The gamble paid off...

I hated it, I know he loved PG but it was like he was denying his talent. Like taking a Lambo to get coffee and cigs at the Wawa. Didn't fit.

Didnt like it either, but I never really liked any of his songs.
Just the guitar solos were great.
The only album with him that I really like is Thin Lizzy Black Rose.

He wasn't the world's greatest songwriter, but he had a few good tunes on those early 80s Mork jumpsuit albums, and his covers always landed. When he started playing with synths on the Lynott records he lost me. ATW was great IMO, if a bit unfocused. Then, he got the blues.

Everyone says that Black Rose is great, but it's a snoozer IMO.

[HueyRamone]

Holmes played some stuff on Headless Children that Ojeda and French can only dream of.

I'd agree with that. Holmes, (when younger and sober), was decent.

Better than decent. While not a shredder, Holmes consistently came up with interesting, fun, exciting solos that fit the song, like Paul Frehely or Michael Mars, but without given similar credit.
His "animal" persona and drunken documentary prolly didnt help his case.

I've posted this befrore, but please tell me which of these solos arent good:
https://youtu.be/L4ORQGam_LE?si=GL9a7-XFjmVpfs6E

[FreddyFender]

Holmes was like Mick Mars - he wasn't a flashy shredder and didn't get any love in guitar magazines, but he played good shit that's still good 40 years later, while most of the Ed clones sound silly today.

[woblinweebles]

Holmes played some stuff on Headless Children that Ojeda and French can only dream of.

I'd agree with that. Holmes, (when younger and sober), was decent.

Piper, on the other hand, was useless, as Blackie proved when he switched to rhythm to replace him.

So, when you had Piper and Holmes on an off day...wellllll.

Alice Cooper wanted Randy Piper in his band after he left WASP, but that didn't work out.

https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/01-disco ... rictor.php


"Yeah I played with Alice for a while. I didn't end up touring but I worked on the 'Constrictor' album [he didn't]. But I really don't think I had my shit together, it's a long story. I did not have any gear or my guitars. They had not come back from Japan and when they did Blackie kept all my shit, my amps and everything and made it really hard on me to do that thing with Alice. I was struggling borrowing pieces of junk from people you know what I mean. I really didn't have my shit together. Kane Roberts and I did not gel together. We really didn't get along. He's a nice guy, but I got along really good with Alice but I just did not have my shit together enough to go out on a tour.
(Randy Piper, April 2005 for RockEyes.com)

Randy Piper (ex-Wasp) was hired for the 'Nightmare Returns' tour. He was fired for not being able to play his instrument during the first rehearsals.
(Brian Nelson, Alice's personal assistant/archivist August 1996)

[Ozzy Stradlin]

Holmes played some stuff on Headless Children that Ojeda and French can only dream of.

I'd agree with that. Holmes, (when younger and sober), was decent.

Piper, on the other hand, was useless, as Blackie proved when he switched to rhythm to replace him.

So, when you had Piper and Holmes on an off day...wellllll.

Alice Cooper wanted Randy Piper in his band after he left WASP, but that didn't work out.

https://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/01-disco ... rictor.php


"Yeah I played with Alice for a while. I didn't end up touring but I worked on the 'Constrictor' album [he didn't]. But I really don't think I had my shit together, it's a long story. I did not have any gear or my guitars. They had not come back from Japan and when they did Blackie kept all my shit, my amps and everything and made it really hard on me to do that thing with Alice. I was struggling borrowing pieces of junk from people you know what I mean. I really didn't have my shit together. Kane Roberts and I did not gel together. We really didn't get along. He's a nice guy, but I got along really good with Alice but I just did not have my shit together enough to go out on a tour.
(Randy Piper, April 2005 for RockEyes.com)

Randy Piper (ex-Wasp) was hired for the 'Nightmare Returns' tour. He was fired for not being able to play his instrument during the first rehearsals.
(Brian Nelson, Alice's personal assistant/archivist August 1996)

“…not being able to play his instrument…”

I mean, Piper wasn’t great, but he played some decent solos on those first couple of WASP albums.

And don’t forget: he smoked!

https://youtu.be/ZJFChBYWA-0?si=ms9KqtBb2jjShM0S



He had to at least be better than JJ.

[Wiseacre]

Holmes was like Mick Mars - he wasn't a flashy shredder and didn't get any love in guitar magazines, but he played good shit that's still good 40 years later, while most of the Ed clones sound silly today.

If you watch that documentary about him, it's obvious the guy could play and had great stage presence.

[Ozzy Stradlin]

Holmes was like Mick Mars - he wasn't a flashy shredder and didn't get any love in guitar magazines, but he played good shit that's still good 40 years later, while most of the Ed clones sound silly today.

If you watch that documentary about him, it's obvious the guy could play and had great stage presence.

Holmes also had/has a distinct sound that’s all his own.