Metal Sludge Gossip Board

Van Ailin' wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:11 pm
Don Dokken (solo band with Norum, Billy White, and Ken Mary)

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:26 pm
Hell yeah... between them, Viv and Vandy couldn't write a commercial jingle, which is why Viv quit and SyVy got paid a million dollars to rescue SOTT under cover of Adrian's "arthritis".

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:28 am

Van Ailin' wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:11 pm
Don Dokken (solo band with Norum, Billy White, and Ken Mary)

When was Mary in DD's solo band? AFAIK they started with Swedish drummer Hempo Hildén (who also was in John Norum's solo band) and did some photos and demos with him, and for the album and tour they had another Swede, Mikkey Dee. Anyway wouldn't Mary be busy with HOL and Fifth Angel around that time?

risingfarce wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 2:15 am

Earl Skakel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 1:04 pm

risingfarce wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:53 am

When Ace quit the first time, Paul was looking for a Rhoads/Lee type of guitarist for KISS. IMO, shredding is not KISS-like at all. KISS needed a rock guitarist, not a heavy metal guitarist. They were never a metal band, although some of their songs are metal or at least metal-ish. When Mark was fired, Bruce was the guy, because he could be flashy, but that wasn't the only thing in his bag. He was a melodic rock guitarist who had a bluesy background. He could do the Van Halen stuff when needed, but the majority of his stuff fit the KISS mold. Mark and Vinnie, style-wise, were not compatible with KISS.

My first KISS concert was on the "Lick It Up" tour. Vinnie sucked playing Ace's stuff. One obnoxious shred fest after another. So not KISS' style. Paul knew he didn't fit the band, music-wise, personality-wise, and even height-wise. That's all on Paul and Gene for hiring him and not properly planning Ace's replacement. They did not properly schedule writing and recording of the new lp, finding a replacement, and rehearsal for the next tour.

I don't think Ace would have done well in the early/mid 80's with KISS with these guys being in vogue at the time
Van Halen
Lee
Rhoads
Demartini to a degree although never known as a shredder
among many others like Gillis....

I didn't mind Vinnie free styling on Ace's solos and riffs but I get why people didn't like him or St John for simply not being Ace. I will say I think Bruce was probably the best fit because he does what he's told and causes virtually no headache unlike Vinnie who was so nuts he got kicked out of The Vinnie Vincent Invasion WTF?

It all depends on the songs. A 20 second lead guitar solo in a song doesn't sell the song. KISS, with Ace or anyone else, would succeed if they had catchy, memorable songs.

During the grunge era you had bands like Gin Blossoms and Toad The Wet Sprocket having songs on the radio. Those tracks weren't grunge. Write a good, catchy song and you may have a hit.

KISS, on the other hand, went a big heavier with "Revenge". They got some exposure on Headbanger's Ball with "Unholy", but nothing else from that cd caught on on radio. Years later, they did get some radio play with "Jungle", a grungy song after the grunge era happened.

My problems with VV and MSJ weren't that they weren't Ace, but rather their styles had nothing to do with KISS' sound. In concert you expect to hear the majority of the solo in a song played like it was on the lp, but with VV that didn't happen. Plus, to be fair, Paul and Gene wanted the tempo of the songs played faster in concert. They wanted the older songs to sound current like the new songs.

Bruce worked well in KISS because he played for the song. VV played for himself.

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:24 am Yeah true the whole 87 thing was such a Frankenstein that it's amazing that they were able to got on tour and put those songs over as well as they did. BTW they did a headlining leg in early 88 too, which I saw and they were great. Which Vandenberg song did they rework?

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:39 pm No don't think it was. "Give Me All Your Love" had just come out as a single. Great White opened.

Never heard of them redoing Burning Heart - was it rejected/shelved?

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:28 am

Van Ailin' wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:11 pm
Don Dokken (solo band with Norum, Billy White, and Ken Mary)

AFAIK they started with Swedish drummer Hempo Hildén

Earl Skakel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 10:30 am

risingfarce wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 2:15 am

Earl Skakel wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 1:04 pm

I don't think Ace would have done well in the early/mid 80's with KISS with these guys being in vogue at the time
Van Halen
Lee
Rhoads
Demartini to a degree although never known as a shredder
among many others like Gillis....

I didn't mind Vinnie free styling on Ace's solos and riffs but I get why people didn't like him or St John for simply not being Ace. I will say I think Bruce was probably the best fit because he does what he's told and causes virtually no headache unlike Vinnie who was so nuts he got kicked out of The Vinnie Vincent Invasion WTF?

It all depends on the songs. A 20 second lead guitar solo in a song doesn't sell the song. KISS, with Ace or anyone else, would succeed if they had catchy, memorable songs.

During the grunge era you had bands like Gin Blossoms and Toad The Wet Sprocket having songs on the radio. Those tracks weren't grunge. Write a good, catchy song and you may have a hit.

KISS, on the other hand, went a big heavier with "Revenge". They got some exposure on Headbanger's Ball with "Unholy", but nothing else from that cd caught on on radio. Years later, they did get some radio play with "Jungle", a grungy song after the grunge era happened.

My problems with VV and MSJ weren't that they weren't Ace, but rather their styles had nothing to do with KISS' sound. In concert you expect to hear the majority of the solo in a song played like it was on the lp, but with VV that didn't happen. Plus, to be fair, Paul and Gene wanted the tempo of the songs played faster in concert. They wanted the older songs to sound current like the new songs.

Bruce worked well in KISS because he played for the song. VV played for himself.

I kind of like Vinnie and the 1 show Mark played live almost updating Ace's sound from 70's jam type sound ala Page to Rhoads/Lee type but I get why most people don't like that era. I just enjoy the guitar work on Animalize although at times it is a bit busy it's more restrained than say either of the 2 Vinnie Vincent Invasion albums! I do think oddly enough at least on the Lick It Up album Vinnie was a good paring with Gene and Paul as they restrained him and reigned him in and he updated them to the sound they wanted. Live that was another story with him!

kytepunches wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:27 pm The first Danzig line up . He completely lost the plot after they left.

Aerosmith87 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 pm The 2006-2010ish New York Dolls rebirth had an amazing band. Sami Yaffa and Steve Conte were an amazing fit. Drummer was solid, too. They had the perfect blend of being proficient to great at their roles, but being loose & tight at the same time.

Hellsinkey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:28 pm

Aerosmith87 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 pm The 2006-2010ish New York Dolls rebirth had an amazing band. Sami Yaffa and Steve Conte were an amazing fit. Drummer was solid, too. They had the perfect blend of being proficient to great at their roles, but being loose & tight at the same time.

Those guys are now in Michael Monroe's band.

risingfarce wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:19 am

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:46 am He didn't have any writing credits and they had to bring Kulick in to finish a couple of the songs so I wonder how instrumental he really was in the recording of that album. He also later said that the arthuritis was a coverup because he pretty much left because they couldn't stand him and vv.

The Reiter's Syndrome was real. Paul wanting to get rid of him was real. They gave him a chance at three shows and knew that he was out and Bruce was in.

I met him once. My guess it was pre-meth days. He was at a fan run KISS convention. He was only there for the paycheck. Looked like he would have rather been any place else.

El Vampiro Blanco wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:19 am

risingfarce wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:19 am

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:46 am He didn't have any writing credits and they had to bring Kulick in to finish a couple of the songs so I wonder how instrumental he really was in the recording of that album. He also later said that the arthuritis was a coverup because he pretty much left because they couldn't stand him and vv.

The Reiter's Syndrome was real. Paul wanting to get rid of him was real. They gave him a chance at three shows and knew that he was out and Bruce was in.

I met him once. My guess it was pre-meth days. He was at a fan run KISS convention. He was only there for the paycheck. Looked like he would have rather been any place else.

So he actually fit in perfectly with Kiss! None of the ex members who did conventions ever looked like they wanted to be there. Worst being Ace...

El Vampiro Blanco wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:22 am KISS with Vincent. That first VVI as a Kiss album would have been fantastic. Great songs, no high whiney singer and no ridiculous guitar solos.

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:28 am

Van Ailin' wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:11 pm
Don Dokken (solo band with Norum, Billy White, and Ken Mary)

When was Mary in DD's solo band? AFAIK they started with Swedish drummer Hempo Hildén (who also was in John Norum's solo band) and did some photos and demos with him, and for the album and tour they had another Swede, Mikkey Dee. Anyway wouldn't Mary be busy with HOL and Fifth Angel around that time?

alexleehooker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:37 am coverdale/page