The piece of shit KISS contract that VInnie kept refusing to sign

[Tenacious_Dio]

Whether or not Vinnie should've signed the KISS contract is debatable. He probably would've been given his pink slip sooner than later, anyway. Bruce Kulick had the temperament to work for P&G, Vinnie didn't.

Where he really blew it was VVI. He could've achieved Slaughter-level success, and if he'd kept his head on straight, they could still be a working, C-tier hair metal band. But we know how it turned out.

Mark Slaughter did what Vinnie couldn't: used a hired gun gig as a stepping stone to a successful solo career. Which is probably why Vinnie hates him so much.

[kingbrian74]

In my experience, this is not true at all.

Again, just my experience.

Why is that? Did she let you wipe her cum off your face before she kicked you out of her dressing room?
Are you that fat dude that interviewed her?

Hey, quit treating King Brian poorly!

He may be a Vin fan, but he's OUR Vin fan!

Awwwww!!! Much love Huey!!!

[Tommy2Tone84]

Yeah... I get it, and recall hearing about, or reading about that.

But... here is the kicker...

Poison signed to Enigma, for a sh!t deal. They were given like $15-20k to make a record, and weren't promised a thing.

Motley Crue, Metallica, and others... even less. Signed to small indy deals, with contracts there were HORRIBLE for their career.

However, they signed that horrible deal anyway, which was lackluster for sure and took the chance. They bet on themselves.

Then... after they sold huge and went Gold, then Platinum and Dbl Platinum... they turned around and said: "Hey, guess what Mr. Record Label... why don't you talk to our Lawyer about the next record, budget, points, advance, etc..."

Like a walk-on sports player, whether baseball, basketball or football... show up as a nobody, and prove your worth. Then, when it goes to another level, and they KNOW it's because of you... you will have more bargaining power.

With that... I am sure many will say; "Wasn't "Lick It Up" enough proof?" Well, sure... of course that was a great point, and something to hang your hat when fighting for a better deal. I 100% agree.

We all know now... Vinnie has proven to be not of sound mind even 40 years later... with delusional thoughts, decisions and more. I am sure he was 10x the nightmare when he was younger, riding the wave of success and feeling empowered.

Now, looking back, and knowing a lot of what Vinnie did with VVI, and since, where he's clearly been VERY delusional and way out to lunch with his ideas, offers, and follow-through when it came to promises and the like. Let's also look at Gene, Paul & KISS, over the time since... it's night and day.

In the end, Vinnie is exactly where he should be, with many others who sh!t the bed with their opportunities in their bands, other's bands, their career and more.

Kiss won, Vinnie lost. Kiss was right, Vinnie was wrong. The same could apply to the guys in Slaughter, as they won, and Vinnie lost again!

Then... the fans... Vinnie won (took their money) and the Fans all lost. Many of whom got burned from the guy over and over.

I am #teamkiss

$tEvil

Somebody brought up that you’re ignoring the publishing part of the equation. Which is true.

Did Desmond sign that kind of deal? Do Gene and Paul own Desmond Child and Rouge’s stuff along with everything Desmond has done since 1979? Do Gene and Paul own a percentage of Living On A Prayer?

Do they own all of Van Halen’s? Which Gene very easily could’ve owned them for life but for some reason, he didn’t.

The publishing part of the contact sounds lopsided. Vinnie was pushing 30 or was 30 and
knew the ropes. I didn’t think asking for better, more equable terms in publishing is a big ask on his part

You’re not wrong about Vinnie but it’s not like the Slaughter guys or atleast Dana and Mark were awesome. You hated them for a long
time on here.

I’m not a big fan of his but I don’t blame Vinnie for not signing the contract if he had issues with the publishing part of it.
Owning everything he did before and after is a gross overreach.


Was Zakk getting a lump sum on No More Tears?

You brought up Poison. They did sign a shitty record deal but they did own their own publishing. Correct? I remember they also ended up suing some of the people, players and movers and shakers involved with their career during Open Up and Say Ahh.

"""""""""""""but it’s not like the Slaughter guys or at least Dana and Mark were awesome. You hated them for a long time on here.""""""""""""""""

This statement is NOT in the least bit true... not for 1 second... that would be the other "so-called" funny guy that some of you take up for.

This was "part" of the on-going issue back in the day, when certain people had feelings, wrote things about others, that they didn't like or care for and I did not agree with it.

I can't tell you the number of times I had small wars with the former "Editor in Chief" on this site for writing and publishing something I did NOT in any way align with.

I will leave it at that regarding that comment.

$tEvil

Okay. Fair enough

What about the issue of publishing and contracts?

I agree with you to a point that Vinnie should’ve been thanking his lucky stars. But the publishing part of the agreement sounds like a gross overreach. Vinnie had a valid argument there if that was his main beef. KISS asking to own any of his songs prior to joining the band is just bad faith on their part. I would think or hope that any attorney worth their salt repping Vinnie at the time would have told him not to sign or atleast ask for more favorable or equitable terms. Vinnie had already worked with them on Creatures and had worked as a tv and session guy prior to Creatures. He wasn’t wet behind the ears and while he maybe didn’t have a huge track record. KISS were in the death throes of their own career. They were literally flatlining at the time.

I believe Bob Kulick has stated in interviews that the reason he never joined the band was over business and contract terms once it was clear Ace was leaving.

What about Van Halen? Gene could’ve pulled a Kim Fowley, Col Parker or Allen Klein with them and literally owned them. But he didn’t. Which is a big reason why I can view Gene in a favorable light when many don’t see those kind of nuances to his personality. With House of Lords it was different. He did have his hooks in them, and maybe rightly so in their case since they literally were everything that Poison has been accused of being but were not; a corporate suit creation.

The BNB and Keel guys seemed to have positive experiences working with him too. He seemed very artist friendly with them and really lobbied for them even fronting his own money when one of the labels was balking at something. I think that was with Keel.

You had mentioned Poison. But I remember around the time of OU&SA, Bret did an interview where he mentioned the band had to bring a lawsuit either against some old management or Enigma or somebody they once worked with. I can’t remember who.

Enigma/Capitol should’ve been treating Poison like royalty from 1986-1991 but I don’t think they ever got that kind of respect.

[Love_Industry]

Mark Slaughter did what Vinnie couldn't: used a hired gun gig as a stepping stone to a successful solo career. Which is probably why Vinnie hates him so much.

Also how he and Strum did it. They had a history, Strum brought in his buddy to VVI and kissed label ass so they could keep the deal after leaving Vinnie. The label wanted pretty boy Mark but would never have heard of him if Vinnie never hired him. No wonder Vin feels that they backstabbed him. He has issues but was also fucked over by both G&P and M&S, the later being nobodies in the business who got their first break thanks to him..

Slaughter were a 3rd rate, bland, derivative hair band but they were professional and worked hard and the label got them on some big tours. A big hit album and then bombing and getting dropped after the follow-up is probably the level of success they deserved.

[superglide88]

In my experience, this is not true at all.

Again, just my experience.

Why is that? Did she let you wipe her cum off your face before she kicked you out of her dressing room?
Are you that fat dude that interviewed her?

And then on the other end of the humor spectrum….thenposts like this that are basically the jokes we made in 5th grade when we first learned how to swear….but some just don’t mature….such is life.

The world needs people to make the fries at McDonalds….so I’m not mad at you.

Seeing how far your head is up Vanessa’s ass, those weren’t jokes buy legit questions kid.
So are you the lardass?

[Tenacious_Dio]

Also how he and Strum did it. They had a history, Strum brought in his buddy to VVI and kissed label ass so they could keep the deal after leaving Vinnie. The label wanted pretty boy Mark but would never have heard of him if Vinnie never hired him. No wonder Vin feels that they backstabbed him. He has issues but was also fucked over by both G&P and M&S, the later being nobodies in the business who got their first break thanks to him..

Yeah, I read Bobby Rock's book, and he was offered the Slaughter gig after VVI dissolved. In retrospect, he said it would've been a good financial decision, since he would've been a partner. But he felt that Dana (and Mark, to a lesser extent) had pulled some shady stuff on their way out of the band, and wasn't comfortable going along with them.

[kingbrian74]

Why is that? Did she let you wipe her cum off your face before she kicked you out of her dressing room?
Are you that fat dude that interviewed her?

And then on the other end of the humor spectrum….thenposts like this that are basically the jokes we made in 5th grade when we first learned how to swear….but some just don’t mature….such is life.

The world needs people to make the fries at McDonalds….so I’m not mad at you.

Seeing how far your head is up Vanessa’s ass, those weren’t jokes buy legit questions kid.
So are you the lardass?

Doubling down! I’m impressed.

Clearly I’m outwitted here.

Thoughts and prayers for your next victim.