What album bookended Hair Metal

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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Love_Industry » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:27 am

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Love_Industry wrote:
But.. but, Queensryche and AC/DC aren't hair metal!

No, no not at all :lol:
I was a big fan since seeing the Ryche open for Dio in 84 and can't remember a single catchy song about partying or fucking on any of their 80s and 90s albums.

Well, Spreading the Disease on Mindcrime is kind of catchy and about some happy man paying "25 bucks a fuck" but it's hardly "Cherry Pie" or "10 Seconds to Love".

Queensryche Cabaret though..... I'll give you that, having overweight stripper wives and daughters gyrating on stage in 2009 is worthy of any past their prime hair band.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:26 pm

Love_Industry wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Love_Industry wrote:
But.. but, Queensryche and AC/DC aren't hair metal!

No, no not at all :lol:
I was a big fan since seeing the Ryche open for Dio in 84 and can't remember a single catchy song about partying or fucking on any of their 80s and 90s albums.

Well, Spreading the Disease on Mindcrime is kind of catchy and about some happy man paying "25 bucks a fuck" but it's hardly "Cherry Pie" or "10 Seconds to Love".

Queensryche Cabaret though..... I'll give you that, having overweight stripper wives and daughters gyrating on stage in 2009 is worthy of any past their prime hair band.


Funny, Ultimate Sin is one of my favorite Ozzy albums of all time and there are no songs about partying or fucking on that album and I got massive amounts of shit for liking it after the 80s. Everyone I knew lumped it in with hair metal. Bark At The Moon was treated the same just about.


So is AC/DC's 1986 re-release of "You Shook Me All Night Long" hair metal? You know, the one with Brian taking a bath and the hot stripper chick with the big tits, big hair and nice ass in a black leather cowgirl outfit riding a mechanical bull? How about another song off Who Made Who; "Sink The Pink?" Is that "hair metal?" How about Shake Your Foundations? How about 1988's Heatseeker? That song and video was cheesy as all fuck.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by DEATH ROW JOE » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:35 pm

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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:36 pm

BDG135 wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Love_Industry wrote:
But.. but, Queensryche and AC/DC aren't hair metal!

No, no not at all :lol:
Image
Image


AC/DC were smart. They walked a fine line musically but never went Priest, Ozzy, Saxon or KISS with it. AC/DC and Van Halen were two of the biggest blueprints for it.
This is why I don't like the term Hair Metal because people will just see a picture of a band with big hair without listening to the music and put that label on them. That makes it not useful as a musical term. Even Sludgers can't seem to decide what it is. People here should know better anyway. Was anyone calling these bands Hair Metal in 1991 or before?


No, no one was calling any glam, glam rock, glam metal, pop metal band "hair metal" or "hairbands" during the 80s. That term came in the early to mid 90s from the Spin Magazine and Seattle crowd. Ironically, most of those Seattle guys were hairfarmers too during the 80s. Their hypocrisy had no boundaries.

Like it or not, Queensyche were hairmetal. Just because they ddin't sing about "sucking and fucking" doesn't mean they weren't. That's a bullshit excuse.
Last edited by Tommy2Tone84 on Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:38 pm

DEATH ROW JOE wrote:Image

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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by BDG135 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
BDG135 wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:

No, no not at all :lol:
Image
Image


AC/DC were smart. They walked a fine line musically but never went Priest, Ozzy, Saxon or KISS with it. AC/DC and Van Halen were two of the biggest blueprints for it.
This is why I don't like the term Hair Metal because people will just see a picture of a band with big hair without listening to the music and put that label on them. That makes it not useful as a musical term. Even Sludgers can't seem to decide what it is. People here should know better anyway. Was anyone calling these bands Hair Metal in 1991 or before?


No, no one was calling any glam, glam rock, glam metal, pop metal band "hair metal" or "hairbands" during the 80s. That term came in the early to mid 90s from the Spin Magazine and Seattle crowd. Ironically, most of those Seattle guys were hairfarmers too during the 80s. Their hypocrisy had no boundaries.

Like it or not, Queensyche were hairmetal. Just because they ddin't sing about "sucking and fucking" doesn't mean they weren't. That's a bullshit excuse.
So if that term is about a look then it's pretty worthless. You can't tell the difference between the Progressive Metal of Queensryche and the sunset strip bands that are usually put in that category?
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by vanitybinge » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:35 pm

Civil_war wrote:
BDG135 wrote:Exposed didn't seem to have that big of an impact. I looked it up and it doesn't look like it even went Gold and had no charting singles.
Wasn't You're invited a modest hit? And from what I thought I knew, I thought it went gold. In fact, I was under the impression that it outsold MC94, although I could be wrong.

You're invited was also on the Encino Man soundtrack and had a video to go with it. Not to mention Vince performed on the MTV music awards that year as well.

Edited: It appears I'm wrong, I don't think it went gold - at least according to:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/vince-neil-exposed/

Does anyone know if Exposed outsold MC94?

Not sure if it outsold MC94 but it’s definitely better, and easily the last noteable album of the genre that was still in the game with that style and sound. Adrenalize came out a year before with god-awful songs and Should honestly be forgotten.

I vote Exposed, and Too Fast for Love as the other bookend.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Love_Industry » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:39 am

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: Like it or not, Queensyche were hairmetal. Just because they ddin't sing about "sucking and fucking" doesn't mean they weren't. That's a bullshit excuse.
Queensryche didn't even share influences with the hair metallers. Early Queensryche sounded like they were influenced by Priest, Maiden, Rush, later the Deep Purple and Pink Floyd influence became more dominating, while the hair metal bands were influenced by the likes of Van Halen, Aerosmith, Kiss and Zeppelin.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by fretslayer » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:39 am

vanitybinge wrote:
Civil_war wrote:
BDG135 wrote:Exposed didn't seem to have that big of an impact. I looked it up and it doesn't look like it even went Gold and had no charting singles.
Wasn't You're invited a modest hit? And from what I thought I knew, I thought it went gold. In fact, I was under the impression that it outsold MC94, although I could be wrong.

You're invited was also on the Encino Man soundtrack and had a video to go with it. Not to mention Vince performed on the MTV music awards that year as well.

Edited: It appears I'm wrong, I don't think it went gold - at least according to:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/vince-neil-exposed/

Does anyone know if Exposed outsold MC94?

Not sure if it outsold MC94 but it’s definitely better, and easily the last noteable album of the genre that was still in the game with that style and sound. Adrenalize came out a year before with god-awful songs and Should honestly be forgotten.

I vote Exposed, and Too Fast for Love as the other bookend.

"You're Invited" was a hit in the Summer of 92, got lots of MTV play and hype. Vince played the Movie awards, and was still relevant at the time. By the time Exposed was released in 93, the momentum from that single was totally gone and the album came and went. Would not call it noteworthy at all.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Gwrexx » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:36 am

LillianRoxyFA wrote: The last significant hair metal debut was Jackyl.
That's exactly the same one I was going to say..
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:01 pm

Love_Industry wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote: Like it or not, Queensyche were hairmetal. Just because they ddin't sing about "sucking and fucking" doesn't mean they weren't. That's a bullshit excuse.
Queensryche didn't even share influences with the hair metallers. Early Queensryche sounded like they were influenced by Priest, Maiden, Rush, later the Deep Purple and Pink Floyd influence became more dominating, while the hair metal bands were influenced by the likes of Van Halen, Aerosmith, Kiss and Zeppelin.

It sounds like you're giving Queensryche too much credit there. While it may not have been obvious or all that reflective in their sound, you can bet they were fans and influenced by Zeppelin, Van Halen and Aerosmith.

I could say similar things about Twisted Sister. Their main influences were Sabbath, Deep Purple, Priest, Motorhead, AC/DC, Maiden and The Rolling Stones with some Alice Cooper thrown in.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by redhotpunk » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:08 pm

On the way home today on the classic rock station they played Nirvana smells.like teen spirit.
And i thought..thats the song that ENDED hair metal.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Chip Z'Hoy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:19 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:some Alice Cooper
:lol:

"Some."

Just their main influence.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Sleek » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:22 pm

redhotpunk wrote:On the way home today on the classic rock station they played Nirvana smells.like teen spirit.
And i thought..thats the song that ENDED hair metal.
Hot take, bro.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:21 am

Chip Z'Hoy wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:some Alice Cooper
:lol:

"Some."

Just their main influence.


I hear more Motorhead, Maiden, AC/DC, Stones and even KISS in their early sound than I do Alice Cooper. The problem is, they sucked at being Alice Cooper fans. They came off looking and later, sounding more like Rocky Horror rejects than bonafide Alice Cooper fans.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:27 am

vanitybinge wrote:
Civil_war wrote:
BDG135 wrote:Exposed didn't seem to have that big of an impact. I looked it up and it doesn't look like it even went Gold and had no charting singles.
Wasn't You're invited a modest hit? And from what I thought I knew, I thought it went gold. In fact, I was under the impression that it outsold MC94, although I could be wrong.

You're invited was also on the Encino Man soundtrack and had a video to go with it. Not to mention Vince performed on the MTV music awards that year as well.

Edited: It appears I'm wrong, I don't think it went gold - at least according to:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/vince-neil-exposed/

Does anyone know if Exposed outsold MC94?

Not sure if it outsold MC94 but it’s definitely better, and easily the last noteable album of the genre that was still in the game with that style and sound. Adrenalize came out a year before with god-awful songs and Should honestly be forgotten.

I vote Exposed, and Too Fast for Love as the other bookend.
Too Fast For Love is a great album but it didn't exactly light the world on fire at the time of it's release. Shout had a much great impact than TFFL did. If we are simply going by debut albums, I would have to argue Def Leppard's 1979 debut or even Van Halen's 1978 debut, the latter of which made a major impact on the hard rock and heavy scene are better choices than TFFL.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Sleek » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:55 am

Still say it's Metal Health.

It was the first metal album to go #1, ushering in the era of metal as pop.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Love_Industry » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:59 am

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Chip Z'Hoy wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:some Alice Cooper
:lol:

"Some."

Just their main influence.


I hear more Motorhead, Maiden, AC/DC, Stones and even KISS in their early sound than I do Alice Cooper. The problem is, they sucked at being Alice Cooper fans. They came off looking and later, sounding more like Rocky Horror rejects than bonafide Alice Cooper fans.
Hardly Maiden, Twisted Sister played half their debut album live in 79-80 and I doubt that they had heard any of Maiden's demos or bootlegs before that. My guess is that the influence is Priest, or even Thin Lizzy.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Love_Industry » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:02 am

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Love_Industry wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote: Like it or not, Queensyche were hairmetal. Just because they ddin't sing about "sucking and fucking" doesn't mean they weren't. That's a bullshit excuse.
Queensryche didn't even share influences with the hair metallers. Early Queensryche sounded like they were influenced by Priest, Maiden, Rush, later the Deep Purple and Pink Floyd influence became more dominating, while the hair metal bands were influenced by the likes of Van Halen, Aerosmith, Kiss and Zeppelin.

It sounds like you're giving Queensryche too much credit there. While it may not have been obvious or all that reflective in their sound, you can bet they were fans and influenced by Zeppelin, Van Halen and Aerosmith.

I could say similar things about Twisted Sister. Their main influences were Sabbath, Deep Purple, Priest, Motorhead, AC/DC, Maiden and The Rolling Stones with some Alice Cooper thrown in.
You may be right, at least in the case of Halen. Wilton and DeGarmo were in a band called Joker in high school and they played a lot of Van Halen and Scorpions covers.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:36 am

Love_Industry wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
Chip Z'Hoy wrote: :lol:

"Some."

Just their main influence.


I hear more Motorhead, Maiden, AC/DC, Stones and even KISS in their early sound than I do Alice Cooper. The problem is, they sucked at being Alice Cooper fans. They came off looking and later, sounding more like Rocky Horror rejects than bonafide Alice Cooper fans.
Hardly Maiden, Twisted Sister played half their debut album live in 79-80 and I doubt that they had heard any of Maiden's demos or bootlegs before that. My guess is that the influence is Priest, or even Thin Lizzy.
I'll admit that Priest was a bigger influence on Twisted Sister in the beginning than Maiden but I doubt Maiden's first two albums went unnoticed by Dee during that 1980-1982 period.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by vanitybinge » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:05 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
vanitybinge wrote:

Not sure if it outsold MC94 but it’s definitely better, and easily the last noteable album of the genre that was still in the game with that style and sound. Adrenalize came out a year before with god-awful songs and Should honestly be forgotten.

I vote Exposed, and Too Fast for Love as the other bookend.
Too Fast For Love is a great album but it didn't exactly light the world on fire at the time of it's release. Shout had a much great impact than TFFL did. If we are simply going by debut albums, I would have to argue Def Leppard's 1979 debut or even Van Halen's 1978 debut, the latter of which made a major impact on the hard rock and heavy scene are better choices than TFFL.
I feel like TFFL defines the look and style and sound of the era better than Metal Health, where MH had more filler and was really kind of one-dimensional in comparison. Van Halen's debut is definitely arguable, but more in an ahead-of-it's-time kind of way, same as Desolation Blvd was a huge influence on a lot of albums, including TTFL. But I think, in the context of "The Era", Van Halen, Desolation Blvd, Toys in the Attic, Killer Queen, UFO, Stained Class, Lovedrive, etc., are all 'Roots' albums.

"The Era", is when it POPPED. around 1981. That's the only reason Metal Health is mentioned, cuz it's kind of a lousy album. But because it was the first to go #1, "The Era" begins with anything in the year around that album. Some bands were on their first and some were on their fifth, but that's where it pops.
I just think TTFL is one of the best of those albums, but I just remembered Back in Black, and fuck TTFL, BIB is even better, and was a bigger slammer than Metal Health, in a bigger way. It's the first legit SUPER FUCKIN AWESOME METAL ALBUM OF THE EIGHTIES.

So rant over man, I've arrived at Hells Bells. AC/DC may not have looked like the hair parade that followed them, but they led that fuckin parade without even knowing it.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Sleek » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:14 pm

Imma follow in the steps of our president with Metal Health and just keep saying it is true until it is.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Tommy2Tone84 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:32 am

vanitybinge wrote:
Tommy2Tone84 wrote:
vanitybinge wrote:

Not sure if it outsold MC94 but it’s definitely better, and easily the last noteable album of the genre that was still in the game with that style and sound. Adrenalize came out a year before with god-awful songs and Should honestly be forgotten.

I vote Exposed, and Too Fast for Love as the other bookend.
Too Fast For Love is a great album but it didn't exactly light the world on fire at the time of it's release. Shout had a much great impact than TFFL did. If we are simply going by debut albums, I would have to argue Def Leppard's 1979 debut or even Van Halen's 1978 debut, the latter of which made a major impact on the hard rock and heavy scene are better choices than TFFL.
I feel like TFFL defines the look and style and sound of the era better than Metal Health, where MH had more filler and was really kind of one-dimensional in comparison. Van Halen's debut is definitely arguable, but more in an ahead-of-it's-time kind of way, same as Desolation Blvd was a huge influence on a lot of albums, including TTFL. But I think, in the context of "The Era", Van Halen, Desolation Blvd, Toys in the Attic, Killer Queen, UFO, Stained Class, Lovedrive, etc., are all 'Roots' albums.

"The Era", is when it POPPED. around 1981. That's the only reason Metal Health is mentioned, cuz it's kind of a lousy album. But because it was the first to go #1, "The Era" begins with anything in the year around that album. Some bands were on their first and some were on their fifth, but that's where it pops.
I just think TTFL is one of the best of those albums, but I just remembered Back in Black, and fuck TTFL, BIB is even better, and was a bigger slammer than Metal Health, in a bigger way. It's the first legit SUPER FUCKIN AWESOME METAL ALBUM OF THE EIGHTIES.

So rant over man, I've arrived at Hells Bells. AC/DC may not have looked like the hair parade that followed them, but they led that fuckin parade without even knowing it.

You make a lot of valid points that are hard to disagree with. To me, The Sweet, Aerosmith, Queen even 70s KISS, UFO and Priest are all "roots" albums. I agree with that but if we are strictly talking Sunset Strip bands then VH 1 is the first. I don't really adhere to keep it only in Hollywood, you make a stellar point about BIB. I was all over BIB as kid, when it came out. TFFL, not so much. I didn't get exposed to Motley until they played the US Fest the summer before SATD release. Same with Def Leppard, Pyromania is where I got exposed to them. I wasn't all that aware of them during the HND era and I had no clue who they were in 1979, but I was a preteen at the time.

There's a good argument to be made that the era "popped" in '80 or '81 but I'd have to argue that it really popped in '83 and that Pyromania was the catalyst. That pains me a little because I think Van Halen were a hair metal band (the ultimate hair metal band) and love any opportunity to frame the argument that way. But there was a little bit of a lull between 1978 and 1983. Maybe not in the club scene but the industry really seemed to be pushing the British and American New Wave scene at us more so than the hard rock and metal scene during that time. But after 1983, that's when the industry really got onboard and were "convinced" that hard rock and metal was a force to be reckoned with and money was to be made.


You make a great point about BIB though. That is hard to argue with. There were lots of great hard rock and metal being written, recorded and released prior to 1983. But If we are going to go back that far, then I'd have to argue VH's debut vs BIB.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Sleek » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:10 pm

Meh. DL were a NWOBHM band DOING hair metal.

Saying they are a hair metal band is like saying Warrant became a NWOBHM band because they went heavy.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by vanitybinge » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:40 pm

Sleek wrote:Meh. DL were a NWOBHM band DOING hair metal.

Saying they are a hair metal band is like saying Warrant became a NWOBHM band because they went heavy.
True. I don't see them as either a catalyst or an influence on the scene. They were surfers. They surfed well with their own British scene and then they surfed through the mid eighties hair metal sound on Mutt's Mange.

Tommy makes good points too about VH vs BiB, and maybe it does come down to them, and maybe it's acceptable that the first 'bookend' album preceded a 'lull' where the bands they influenced took a few years to take over the charts and radio. It could just as easily have been powerpop ruling the eighties with the bands that spawned in the shadow of Cheap Trick, but it was the spawns of Van Halen, who were pretty much done with that sound by the time the scene popped.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by FreddyFender » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:45 pm

Good hairmetal?

Apetite for Destruction.
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Re: What album bookended Hair Metal

Post by Sleek » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:01 am

Hot take, bro.
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