Why don't artist go scorched earth when a label fucks them??

[tylamonroe]

There are hundreds of stories out there about bands getting ignored by their label with no or little promotion and they have an album in the can that the label wont release or sell back at cost basically holding the artist hostage.

Why not just let the "cleaning lady" steal the copies off your laptop and release that shit and get out and tour

I know we have bigger problems in the world but that kind of shit really ought to be illegal.

Tuk Smith dropped a killer disc during Covid and fell out with management largely because he didn't want the clowns in Motley "guesting" on the record. You can hear a few of the singles on spotify and elsewhere. It was like Bowie covering Tom Petty and Thin Lizzy. Great stuff by a young rock act that no one gets to hear. FUCK THAT NOISE. Their just labels. They really can't hurt you in 2023 can they?

Anyone in the biz know what the ramifications would be if shit just "happened" to hit the streets ala Pam and Tommys Tape?

[Mister Freeze]

I don't think anyone has ever had a world-changing album that a label refused to release. If I'm wrong, please show me an example.

Yeah, a band could "steal" a completed, unreleased product, but it's probably in their financial interest to hold out and negotiate some kind of release.

Long story short: Unless you're Prince or George Michael, if a label is fucking you, it probably means your time is up... and stealing an album to release on your own will barely get you anywhere.

[MetalSludgeCEO]

There are hundreds of stories out there about bands getting ignored by their label with no or little promotion and they have an album in the can that the label wont release or sell back at cost basically holding the artist hostage.

Why not just let the "cleaning lady" steal the copies off your laptop and release that shit and get out and tour

I know we have bigger problems in the world but that kind of shit really ought to be illegal.

Tuk Smith dropped a killer disc during Covid and fell out with management largely because he didn't want the clowns in Motley "guesting" on the record. You can hear a few of the singles on spotify and elsewhere. It was like Bowie covering Tom Petty and Thin Lizzy. Great stuff by a young rock act that no one gets to hear. FUCK THAT NOISE. Their just labels. They really can't hurt you in 2023 can they?

Anyone in the biz know what the ramifications would be if shit just "happened" to hit the streets ala Pam and Tommys Tape?

""""""""""""""""There are hundreds of stories """""""""""""""""

I'll stop you there.... hundreds?

Okay... name 5.

Name 5 bands, or 5 stories...

Ready, Set, Go?

$tEvil

[tylamonroe]

Hey Boss,

Alright, gonna be tough giving you 100 but I can do 5

We can start with some SLUDGE worthy contenders. Plenty of others off our charts.

Marvelous 3. Prevented from performing as such with any other label and zero support from their existing contract.
Sound Garden. Lots of shit recorded and ready for release - legal shit holding it up/
Replacements - lots of new music recorded - died on the vine.
Lemmys Solo record - guessing they will release it rebranded when the money was right.
Noel Gallagher With Amorphous Androgynous: He waited it out and got the money under a new moniker

[HueyRamone]

Why not just let the "cleaning lady" steal the copies off your laptop and release that shit and get out and tour

Anyone in the biz know what the ramifications would be if shit just "happened" to hit the streets ala Pam and Tommys Tape?

Labels have lots of lawyers on retainer. bands dont. Releasing shit they own would be not dissimilar to your "cleaning lady" swiping a copy of Back and Black and you duplicating it and selling copies of it. Labels protect what they own, and just cause you sang on it doesnt mean you own it.

Tuk Smith dropped a killer disc during Covid and fell out with management largely because he didn't want the clowns in Motley "guesting" on the record.

He deserves to be obscure then. That woulda helped him get heard and he turned it down?!

Similarly, The Chelsea Smiles were rehearsing in the same place as Def Lep back in the day. Joe Eliott came busting in and told them they were awesome and he wanted them to open a tour. They said to people "We dont wanna play with corny ass Def Leppard", which got back to DL. And they didnt do the tour and they also ended up doing jack shit.

[cowpins]

Weren't there rumored Damn Yankees and Cinderella albums? Not that they'll move any needles, just examples of albums shelved.

[BernieTaupson]

Who has paid for the producer and the recording sessions? Record company. Fuck with them at your peril.

[Wednesday 13 Fan]

I'm sure they convince themselves that they still have a shot, and don't want to burn any bridges.

[str]

Weren't there rumored Damn Yankees and Cinderella albums? Not that they'll move any needles, just examples of albums shelved.

I think Kalodner shelved the Damn Yankees album,
Either Kalodner, or the band, or both, thought it wasn't good enough,
the Cinderella album never got made and there was some legal action, Jeff Labar said that songs from that wound up on Tom Keifer's solo album,
When the Portrait imprint didn't have huge success with Ratt and Great White, that probably spelled the end for the others , I think Poison and Tesla were also being considered though they eventually made albums for other labels, I'm pretty sure Pat Benatar was also supposed to be on Portrait .

[Turner Coates]

I don't think anyone has ever had a world-changing album that a label refused to release. If I'm wrong, please show me an example.

Bonnie Raitt recorded "Nick Of Time," which was refused twice by her label. She spent her pension on re-recording it and it was finally released.
It was a smash hit and changed her life and career. She won her first three Grammys for it. Her next one, "Luck Of The Draw" was even bigger, winning five Grammys.

Before "Nick Of Time" was released, she couldn't even afford to take a band on the road anymore. She had only guitarist/bassist Johnny Lee Schell, one crew guy and a road manager with her.

I heard the story firsthand, after one of her "solo" shows. She cried and said, "They call me legendary, but if they only knew." She had a substance abuse problem at the time, which she overcame.

[Velvis]

I think 99% of these "the label screwed us" stories are nothing more than the artist trying to save face when an album tanks.

Sure there might by a couple that the label dropped the ball, but few and far between.

[Neil Diamond Dave]

It's almost the reverse of this, but Hank Williams III hasn't released any new material since 2013, hasn't toured, hasn't given an interview, and has basically fallen off of the face of the Earth under protest of his record company. And they are still holding him hostage and under contract until he gives them new material (which he absolutely won't).

It's a complete suicide mission that I've never seen from an artist, where he tanked his own career and basically retired, in order to not give the record company one more red cent. It's like he faked his own death.

[MetalSludgeCEO]

I think 99% of these "the label screwed us" stories are nothing more than the artist trying to save face when an album tanks.

Sure there might by a couple that the label dropped the ball, but few and far between.

"""""""I think 99% of these "the label screwed us" stories are nothing more than the artist trying to save face when an album tanks.""""""""""""

This... and even if not 99%, it's 75% or more.

And not that anyone asked... but I challenge you to find anything, where I or anyone from TUFF blamed the label for not going Platinum, etc..

It never happened... I and we as a band were more than grateful for the shot... and I know we were 1 of the few, that got that chance.

Anything above getting signed (which is already a slim to none chance), is a huge shot in the dark, and a HUGE part of the outcome is simply luck and timing.

I have said it before and will say it again, put that 1989 Skid Row debut out in 1993 with the same songs, same look, same Bach, etc... and it becomes Slik Toxic or WildSide.

Same apllies with Warrant debut or "Cherry Pie" 3-4 years later, and it's not selling the same.

And reverse that, by putting out Pearl Jam, Nirvana or Sound Garden in 1986 or 1988, and they're all dead in the water!

$tEvil

[MetalSludgeCEO]

Okay...Why don't artists go scorched earth when a label fucks them??

A few things here...

When you get signed... first things first... and let me give you a few analogies.

How does any NFL or NBA or MLB team sign a player... a young prospect...  or even the UFC.

Add to that... a Movie studio, or TV studio, hiring an actor or actress for a series, or show.

"Here is your offer... this is the money... and here are the terms, yes or no?"

Nobody is forcing them to sign the deal... but most if not all do! Right?

Then... the season starts and a few things can happen... or the Movie or TV show gets released, etc...

The player BLOWS up, and scores 20 TD's or gets 15 sacks, or catches 125 passes... and guess what... it's VERY likely, that his agent, can turn around in a year or two, and negotiate a MUCH better deal. Fair?

Or, the Movie is a smash, the TV show is a hit... etc...  follow me?

Same player, same season, and he is hurt half the year, only plays 6 games, fumbles 3x, drops 5 sure thing TD passes, or threw 14 interceptions. Guess who might get cut, dropped, or let go mid-season or after year 1? Fair?

Or the TV show bombs, horrible ratings, box office numbers blow and so on. Still with me?

Same applies in music...

A label sees a young hot band, there is a buzz, hype, singer is great, guitarist is awesome, songs with name co-writers (SouthGang comes to mind) and in the end, they underperform... now it's a year or two later, maybe a 2nd record gets released and it's not happening.

The label simply says... sorry, it didn't work... see ya later.

But...sometimes, one label might wanna drop them, while a different label wants to pick them up... and the industry is a small world, and word gets around. Dig?

So... back to my sports analogy...

If the Packers wanna cut a guy, but hear the Vikings or Cowboys are very interested in him...do the Packers just cut him, or... do they decide to hold onto him a bit longer, as a bargaining chip, against some rival teams? Following...?

This happened with Aaron Rodgers last season and has happened with other players for decades.

Same can apply in TV, music, entertainment, with rappers and extreme athletes ie: motocross riders, NASCAR drivers, skateboarders or snowboarders, MMA fighters and more.

Circling back to YOUR question...

"Why don't these bands go scorched earth...on the label that dropped them, held them back, etc..." was your question... correct.

A quick note here... I googled "Scorched Earth", just to show everyone, and while I knew what this means, and so did most everybody reading this.

GOOGLE SAYS...

""""""""""""What is the meaning of scorched earth?1. : relating to or being a military policy involving deliberate and usually widespread destruction of property and resources (such as housing and factories) so that an invading enemy cannot use them. 2. : directed toward victory or supremacy at all costs : ruthless. scorched-earth rhetoric.""""""""""""""

Let me add one more analogy...

Your buddy dates a REALLY hot chick... HOT as F#@k, killer body, he says she is killer sex, etc...

But after a few months, he sees she's NUTS, and bails... and she LOSES her F'ing mind on him... stalking him, keys his car, contacts every other girl on his social media, says he's a piece of shit.. in short... she is a knife attack shy of Jodi Arias.

She also shows up and calls your work, makes up lies and says you're a wife beater and paints "I like Dick" on the door of your apartment and hood of your car while you're on a date with your new chick!

Now that she's single and you saw all this... what are the chances YOU want to F#@k her or date her next?

Welll?

Zero chance, right?

Same applies when a guy is a POS of sh!t to his former team, going "scorched earth", or acting like,... say Terrell Owens, for those who remember him? Head case.

Or, recently, Antonio Bryant... going scorched earth, on the Steelers, the Patriots, Tom Brady, Bob Kraft and more...

How did that work out for him?

Lastly... you also asked """"Their just labels. They really can't hurt you in 2023 can they?"""""

It's "they're" not their...

And... showing your "Scorched earth" side, in any phase of life, will catch up with your ass, and does you NO good, whether it's 1988, 2010 or 2023!

Hope this helps a bit.

Class dismissed!

$tEvil

[Velvis]

I think 99% of these "the label screwed us" stories are nothing more than the artist trying to save face when an album tanks.

Sure there might by a couple that the label dropped the ball, but few and far between.

"""""""I think 99% of these "the label screwed us" stories are nothing more than the artist trying to save face when an album tanks.""""""""""""

This... and even if not 99%, it's 75% or more.

And not that anyone asked... but I challenge you to find anything, where I or anyone from TUFF blamed the label for not going Platinum, etc..

It never happened... I and we as a band were more than grateful for the shot... and I know we were 1 of the few, that got that chance.

Anything above getting signed (which is already a slim to none chance), is a huge shot in the dark, and a HUGE part of the outcome is simply luck and timing.

I have said it before and will say it again, put that 1989 Skid Row debut out in 1993 with the same songs, same look, same Bach, etc... and it becomes Slik Toxic or WildSide.

Same apllies with Warrant debut or "Cherry Pie" 3-4 years later, and it's not selling the same.

And reverse that, by putting out Pearl Jam, Nirvana or Sound Garden in 1986 or 1988, and they're all dead in the water!

$tEvil

After reading this I started to recall Nikki Sixx talking about how after signing Motley to a zillion dollar contract in like 91 or 92 that the label "just didnt want anything to do with them because they just werent the in thing" in 1994 and it was the labels fault the album tanked.

The label doesnt give two shits what they sell as long as it sells. They don't care that Motley 94 is selling just as well as Pearl Jam, like somehow that would make the label look bad. If the label thought it was going to sell, they would put money behind it.

[Son_of_Sam_I_Am]

D-A-D got into a huge bidding war in 1989, and Warner gave them a million dollar contract in the US. It was one of the biggest contracts to a foreign band at the time, and they were primed to be the Next Big Thing. Turns out that they were kinda weird for American audiences. Odd name, strange album title, songs about running out of gas on the way to Mecca and banging Siamese twins, etc. So after two releases that largely went nowhere, they were dropped.

The band didn't throw the blame game on Warner, but instead decided to stay out of the U.S. market altogether and concentrate on Europe and Japan. By not shitting on anyone (and they really wouldn't have had a right to...they got tons of promo on that first album) and instead playing to their strengths, they cultivated great success on their home soil and are still recording and playing stadiums there.

[GreatWhiteSnake]

Tuk Smith dropped a killer disc during Covid and fell out with management largely because he didn't want the clowns in Motley "guesting" on the record. You can hear a few of the singles on spotify and elsewhere. It was like Bowie covering Tom Petty and Thin Lizzy. Great stuff by a young rock act that no one gets to hear.

I've heard a couple of those Tuk Smith tunes on Spotify. Not bad...

[Playboyliquor59]

I was managing a few bands on Victory when Hawthorne heights sued them in 2006. At the end of the day, it was a giant waste of time/money and the band lost a ton of momentum when they were at their peak. Instead of sucking it up, they started a war with the label who had unlimited resources to bleed them in court and obviously didn't want to support them during that time. It was a ballsy move considering how many bands the label fucked over but I bet they would have let it go and kept moving forward looking back.

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-n ... mel-57601/

[DonJuanDeMarco]

And not that anyone asked... but I challenge you to find anything, where I or anyone from TUFF blamed the label for not going Platinum, etc..

It never happened... I and we as a band were more than grateful for the shot... and I know we were 1 of the few, that got that chance.

$tEvil

You may be grateful and humble now but something tells me the “Record Labels Suck” guy was a little pissed at the time!

At least you got to release Fist First on your own. I think a lot of shelved albums and demos went into the record company graveyard.

[Traxan]

""""""""""""""""There are hundreds of stories """""""""""""""""

I'll stop you there.... hundreds?

Okay... name 5.

Name 5 bands, or 5 stories...

Ready, Set, Go?

$tEvil

I can't name 5 but I got one that frustrates and angers me still after 20 years.

A band called Acroma from Salt Lake City signed to Universal in 2003 and recorded their album "Orbitals" with Silvia Massey. The band had a sound very reminiscent of A Perfect Circle and this song got some radio airplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBOzguIvm2g

The label told the band not to be tied to jobs so they could go on tour, then did nothing to get them gigs. This was right from the guitarist who gave an interview to a music site. They were living off a dwindling advance and getting desperate when the label dropped them for lack of sales. Well of course they had no fucking sales you wouldn't put them on tour. The band broke up after that and were never seen again.

Universal is a shit record label for rock bands. It signed The Pretty Reckless and despite them getting radio airplay did absolutely nothing to help promote the band. Taylor Momsen had to basically fund the band out of her pocket with the money she made from working on Gossip Girl. Fortunately they also got dumped and signed to an Indy, which made an effort to actually promote the band and sales jumped.

[tylamonroe]

Tuk Smith dropped a killer disc during Covid and fell out with management largely because he didn't want the clowns in Motley "guesting" on the record. You can hear a few of the singles on spotify and elsewhere. It was like Bowie covering Tom Petty and Thin Lizzy. Great stuff by a young rock act that no one gets to hear.

I've heard a couple of those Tuk Smith tunes on Spotify. Not bad...

Its good stuff that deserves to be heard and if you believe the "insiders" that the first taste was only that... Makes me crazy that industry bullshit stops a cat like this from getting heard. It's clear he is 99% of his own problem, but still... Good shit ought to be heard.

[AliceManson]

Sound Garden. Lots of shit recorded and ready for release - legal shit holding it up/

There wasn't lots of shit "Soundgarden" have to release. They wanted to finish the album they were working on when Cornell died. His widow/estate tied that up not the label.

[GoodJudge]

Its good stuff that deserves to be heard and if you believe the "insiders" that the first taste was only that... Makes me crazy that industry bullshit stops a cat like this from getting heard. It's clear he is 99% of his own problem, but still... Good shit ought to be heard.

The two highlights are incompatible. If the guy's a fuck-up, that's hardly the label's fault.

Obviously every band thinks they're special, artistic geniuses, scene leaders in waiting, and if they don't sell a million and headline Wembley / MSG / Budokan it's someone else's fault for not supporting them enough. In reality the labels are no different to sausage-sellers. If customers don't like the taste, they change the recipe.