Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Ozzy Stradlin »

JizzySynatra wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:08 am Granted, there were many incredible players that took part, but the TS guys were embarrassing on the Hear n' Aid sessions.
I don’t think that Jay Jay even played a solo on Hear n’ Aid. “Fingers” did, but probably shouldn’t have bothered.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Bono Nettencourt »

aznsquirt wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:09 pm
RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
I feel like his recent interviews have come from a string of interviews with musicians shit-talking him, and he's probably like fuck it lets sling it back.
Definitely... Dokken, the Crue, Trick, and TS have all ripped him at one time or another.
ijwthstd wrote: obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Velvis »

Anthrax442 wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:58 am
MetalSludgeCEO wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:33 am
TS on their own in the last 30 years, wouldn't come close to packing an arena... fair to say? Nowhere... not in the US or abroad... maybe Tri-State area for a 1-off, but ongoing, city to city... Nope... they would have done 2,000-3,500 people at best if they toured the U.S..

$tEvil
Exactly why they didn't tour/get booked. They wanted to get paid like an A level Arena act, and the promoters all were like, "Well, maybe you could do the C level minor league hockey circuit with enough promotion..."
I recall Dee saying as much probably around 2010ish when people would ask why they don't do a regular tour and he basically said the demand isn't there.

I saw them on the 25th anniversary of Stay Hungry and they played the same place Ace Frehley played about a month ago.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by thechefs2003 »

Bono Nettencourt wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:26 pm
aznsquirt wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:09 pm
RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
I feel like his recent interviews have come from a string of interviews with musicians shit-talking him, and he's probably like fuck it lets sling it back.
Definitely... Dokken, the Crue, Trick, and TS have all ripped him at one time or another.
IDK, Dee wasn't bitching about the production on Stay Hungry when it sold 3 million albums and the checks were rolling in and "We're Not Gonna Take It" is still getting played in movies, commercials, sporting events, etc...to this day. The way I see it, he made a an average band sound good enough to appeal to the masses, same with the Crue....
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by dweezil »

RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
To be fair, a lot of those bands were shit-talking him for years before he clapped back.

TS shit talking the man who essentially gave them a hit record that they were able to milk for 35 years, that's just super fucking classy.
Motley Crue saying the same thing. And they sold almost 10 million records with Werman behind the console.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Velvis »

dweezil wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:31 pm
RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
To be fair, a lot of those bands were shit-talking him for years before he clapped back.

TS shit talking the man who essentially gave them a hit record that they were able to milk for 35 years, that's just super fucking classy.
Motley Crue saying the same thing. And they sold almost 10 million records with Werman behind the console.
I don't know, the idea that Tom Werman was solely responsible for TS or Motley's success seems like a bit of an overstatement.

Tom didn't write the songs.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Newsted's FU Money »

Velvis wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:27 pm
dweezil wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:31 pm
RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
To be fair, a lot of those bands were shit-talking him for years before he clapped back.

TS shit talking the man who essentially gave them a hit record that they were able to milk for 35 years, that's just super fucking classy.
Motley Crue saying the same thing. And they sold almost 10 million records with Werman behind the console.
I don't know, the idea that Tom Werman was solely responsible for TS or Motley's success seems like a bit of an overstatement.

Tom didn't write the songs.
Fair point. Werman did, however, give Twisted Sister their only decent song (to my ears, anyway), S.M.F. - by changing the A chord in the chorus to a D chord.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Love_Industry »

Velvis wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 10:27 pm
dweezil wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:31 pm
RicksPickWrangler wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm Seems every interview with Werman he's shit talking someone who he got a check for working with.
To be fair, a lot of those bands were shit-talking him for years before he clapped back.

TS shit talking the man who essentially gave them a hit record that they were able to milk for 35 years, that's just super fucking classy.
Motley Crue saying the same thing. And they sold almost 10 million records with Werman behind the console.
I don't know, the idea that Tom Werman was solely responsible for TS or Motley's success seems like a bit of an overstatement.
Motley at least had their biggest hit album without Werman. Twisted without Werman barely outsold Keel and Black'N Blue and that was based on the Werman album's success.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by HueyRamone »

aznsquirt wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:23 pm
Bono Nettencourt wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:03 am
DonJuanDeMarco wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:36 am I just realized that CC, Mick and the Twisted Sister guys were usually rated as "worst" guitar players in the genre. Tom had the distinction of working with all 3!

You gotta give him credit. He didn't use outside musicians (like Beau Hill did) and he really did bring out the best in those guys. They had some big hits and we still listen to those records today!
No, he seemed to get the best he could from what he had to work with. Any outsiders were for percussion/accent. And he prided himself on being a good editor - hell, he even punched in for the great Jeff Beck on that Jan Hammer Live album.
You guys might want to check out the Greg Leon article posted above:
Greg Leon wrote:"Tommy invited me to the studio while recording Theater of Pain. And when I got there, it wasn't Nikki playing bass. I won't mention the guy's name who actually played bass, but it wasn't Nikki. I remember asking the guy, 'Hey, what are you doing here?' And he was like, 'Oh, I'm playing bass on the Mötley Crüe record.' It shocked me, but the producer instigated that as Nikki wasn't up to snuff.
Werman himself says this is bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byp62yshaQU
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by aznsquirt »

HueyRamone wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:03 pm
Werman himself says this is bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byp62yshaQU
I just watched that last night. Hard to imagine he's lying, but it's surprising Leon would make such an involved and detailed claim, rather than leaving room for plausible deniability. I'd guess Leon is just that bitter.

I will say it's kind of odd how flabbergasted Werman seems by the use of studio musicians in that capacity i.e. Warrant, etc. It's not like it was *that* uncommon, you'd imagine he'd at least have been aware of it, but maybe not.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Bono Nettencourt »

Wasn't his style... his job was to make shitty bands like TS, Poison and the Crue sound passable in the studio.
ijwthstd wrote: obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by sirthx2 »

aznsquirt wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:23 pm
You guys might want to check out the Greg Leon article posted above:
That might be the most arrogant 'never was' I've ever encountered. He stops just short of taking credit for all of Motley's success. "Man I know we could have made State if coach would'a just put me in."
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by aznsquirt »

sirthx2 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:39 pm
aznsquirt wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:23 pm
You guys might want to check out the Greg Leon article posted above:
That might be the most arrogant 'never was' I've ever encountered. He stops just short of taking credit for all of Motley's success. "Man I know we could have made State if coach would'a just put me in."
It makes sense, if there's anyone with the right conditions to be a bitter old man, it's him. Considered one of the better guitar players around the L.A. scene going back to the late 70s, and spending a decade watching band after band cash in while he's sort of floundering around partly due to ego and bad luck, but mostly because he was just fucking ugly.

I hate to use this term, but he's basically the guitar version of an Incel.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Tommy2Tone84 »

JJ sucks and always comes off like a jerk. AJ and Eddie always seem nice. Dee is a primadonna but he’s one of the better ones at his job.

TS were a better live band than Ratt, Quiet Riot, Crue, Dokken. TS never had the sales those bands did because of their clownish image.

Ojeda wasn’t EVH or Yngwie but I always liked his playing. He’s as good as “guitar gods” like Ace and Angus. He reminded me alot of Eddie Clarke, Phil Campbell and like many, a poor man’s Michael Schenker.

I love CC but no way in hell was he ever better than Ojeda. That’s crazy talk

I would say Ojeda is equal to MicK Mars, maybe slightly better. I’d only give Mick the edge for his HSH solo.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Bono Nettencourt »

NFW. Mick was a butcher as a soloist, but he wrote some super heavy riffs. TS were like QR - played dives for 2l10 years before their surprise MTV success, then they were here today, gone later today.
ijwthstd wrote: obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.
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Re: Tom Werman: “Twisted Sister Were Among the Least Proficient Musicians…”

Post by Tommy2Tone84 »

Bono Nettencourt wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:29 am NFW. Mick was a butcher as a soloist, but he wrote some super heavy riffs. TS were like QR - played dives for 2l10 years before their surprise MTV success, then they were here today, gone later today.
Nikki wrote the majority of the super heavy riffs. Mick wrote Girls Girls Girls. Nothing against the song. I like it but Nikki wrote Live Wire, Looks That Kill and all that stuff

As flawed as it is, TS had a vastly superior catalog to QR. QR were literally a one album band with nothing to show or back it up. I don’t care how many records they sold.

YCSRNR, Stay Hungry and Suckers are all stellar offerings. UTB isn’t amazing but has its moments.
Motley does have a superior catalog but they weren’t bullet proof.

Truth be told, I probably favor Dokken’s 1984-1988 or Ratt’s 1984-1989 but neither band delivered for me live. Don is one of the worst, if not the worst frontman I’d the genre. Stephen sucked but atleast he looked cool doing it.

As much as I hate to admit it, Dee was better than the both of them, Vince and Kevin. Dee looked stupid as hell but he is one of the best frontmen
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