BACH to REPLY in 3, 2, 1 ... RACHEL BOLAN Confirms their Debut Album Was '98 Percent' Written Before BACH joined

[Sleek]

What is all of this shit even about???

Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.

Songwriters are a dime per 1000 dozens. A near infinite amount of songs have been written, but without THAT performer, they go nowhere and are buried with the songwriter.

Liiiiiike, you can write the best ever fucking song, and it will just sit and rot without the right person to embody or interpret it. This goes back forever, but in the early part of the last century, you had guys like Fred Astaire, Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra that could take something by Gershwin, Porter, Kern or Berlin and make it a hit. Later on, you could land a song with Glen Campbell or Tom Jones or whatevs who would bring it to life and popularity.

Everybody faps for the songwriter since Dylan and the Beatles brought that shit in-house, but people forget that great songs can absolutely go nowhere without the right interpreter.

...liiiiike Rachel form Skid Row. Everybody thinks that Bach is the egotist who doesn't understand how fortunate he was, but the other 4 guys in the band SHOULD understand how fortunate THEY were to have him.

...buuuuuut, they do not. THOSE guys are just as wrong-headed and ignorant as Bach ever was, and for fuck's sake, the last 30 years should have shown them humility.

[cowpins]

Let's not forget the power of MTV and having the Bach as the face of the band. Was the perfect storm at the time. Grittier/angrier East Coast rock with good songs/riffs/melodies with a slender blond singer who could actually sing his ass off and was one hell of a performer.

[factchecker]

Didn't SKID ROW have an entire album of unreleased material recorded with Bach "Forever" being one of them before their self titled 1989 "debut" with the hits recorded by Matt Fallon?

Looked on YouTube and its all gone now.

No loss it won't ever be 1991 again.

[Love_Industry]

What is all of this shit even about???

Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.

This is totally true. In 89-91, they sold 5 million of the debut and made it to #1 with STTG. Still, people only knew one guy in the band and that was Bach. They weren't a band full of personalities like Guns, Kiss or Mötley. Have you ever heard any fans, especially female, discuss who is their favorite Skid Row member? Without Bach they would be House of Lords or Dokken and that's not what sells at peak MTV.

Songs? They had them, but both Dokken and House of Lords have songs that hold up as well as the best Skid Row songs. Skid Row maybe even sound more dated as it was obvious they were trying hard to write like Guns and Mötley.

[Ozzy Stradlin]

So, now the position is that songs and the people who write them don’t matter?

That’s rich.

[schlonginski]

Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.

Agreed and this sums it all up. But no one would have given a fuck about Bach either without the pre-written songs.
Whether he screamed or grunted or took a shit all over them, the songs were there.

...buuuuuut, they do not. THOSE guys are just as wrong-headed and ignorant as Bach ever was, and for fuck's sake, the last 30 years should have shown them humility.

Agreed, wrong-headed and ignorant, but they do own the rights to the band name and that's all that counts.

[Love_Industry]

Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.

Agreed and this sums it all up. But no one would have given a fuck about Bach either without the pre-written songs..

One hundred hair metal bands where the singer wasn't the main songwriter would have hired him in 1988-90 if they had the chance. If he was still unknown in 92 he would be a top candidate for Mötley.

The others would rotade between those 100 5th tier hair metsl bands and maybe land a gig in a 90s line-up of Danger Danger or Quiet Riot.

[MetalSludgeCEO]

I know Bach is hated on here and I doubt I could be his lifelong friend but I disagree that Skid Row, as good as Dave and Rachel’s songs were, would have been as good or made the impact without Sebastian. Similar to Motley Crue and Guns N Roses, The Skids tried to thread this needle between glam, hard rock, heavy metal and punk. They were mostly successful at it in the beginning but I’m convinced they couldn’t have done it without Sebastian. He was the perfect singer and frontman for that band. As much as I liked ZP and as much as I like Erik, Sebastian and the band had a chemistry that they never quite got back after the original breakup.

Bach also had more significant cowrites on Slave To The Grind and Subhuman Race. With the exception of the new one with Erik, I really don’t think much of the post Subhuman Race albums. RPM is just garbage and it’s all Rachel’s garbage. Sebastian fans are correct that his solo albums are better than SR’s output without him.

Rachel is also an idiot that he thought I Remember You wasn’t a good song or “too soft” at the time. He and Dave could have probably retired in 1990 or 91 from the royalties of that song alone.

"""""""""""""""""" as good as Dave and Rachel’s songs were, would have been as good or made the impact without Sebastian""""""""""""""""

Or, Jon Bon Jovi.

Or, Doc McGee.

Just to be clear... those 2 names had WAY more of an impact than the guy you listed above.

Anymore questions... ?

Or, have all of you air-headed Bach loyalists NOT realized yet, that Jon in their corner, was essentially playing Blackjack with an Ace out of the box.

Note... GN'R had NO Jon, and NO Doc in their corner. Neither did Poison, nor did Warrant, L.A. Guns, or Winger.

Those bands went and played clubs on their first tours, and built it from the lowest levels.

Of course, so did Skid Row (before the arrival of Bach), but out of the gate. their first tour was opening for Bon Jovi for a year straight.

Does anyone really believe, that being in that position did not sell their record? Or help in a huge way?

I understand though... I really do... being a "Fan" only gives you so much perspective.

Fans don't understand the true different in being signed by the President of the label, or some A&R guy who is 24 years old getting the "green light" to give a band a deal.

Most don't understand the difference in getting a $250-400k budget to make their record, or getting $30-60k to do the same.

Most fans don't understand why one band gets added to 50-75+ radio stations on week 1 with their single, and why some others only get added to 5-10 stations.

Most fans don't understand how or why, 1 band gets to open the arena show, and their other favorite band plays the local 300 seat club.

Most of the fans don't understand that having your manager be say, the same guy who manages Motley Crue, Bon Jovi and Scorpions is usually a HUGE help compared to having your manager represent Sleez Beez or Britny Fox, and how that dynamic is a difference that can only be described as a massive factor to help the final outcome.

Most fans don't realize that the guy with the nice hair. or the coolest jacket isn't always the guy who built the band. wrote the songs, or is the OG in the photo that helped build that house from the ground up, and the person who is hosting the open house was hired for that, but never lifted a hammer or saw.

My head hurts from some of the stupidity that exists in the world, and on this board too... but it's all good... life is great... it really is.

$tEvil

Steve. Matt joined Skid Row in 1986 and was in the band until late 1987 or sometime in 1988. They demoed the majority of the first album with Matt in Jon’s studio. They opened a couple of east Coast dates for Bon Jovi with Matt fronting the band. They didn’t take off. Matt isn’t a terrible singer but he had a limited range and didn’t have the personality and attitude that guys like Axl and Sebastian had. You’re talking minor leagues vs the majors. So your theory doesn’t hold up. I know it kills you to give Bach credit. But without him, I don’t see the band going anywhere. I don’t care who they have on their sidelines or in their back pocket due to childhood friendships.

Keel, Black N Blue and House of Lords all had Gene Simmons on their sides. Why didn’t any of them go anywhere? Keel, IIRC, even had Danny Goldmountain on their team. Why didn’t they take off? Keel opened a leg or two of Jovi’s Slippery tour. What happened?


BNB opened for KISS IN ARENAS and released plenty of albums and had videos on MTV. I remember them! I love me some JSJ. I wish he was still in Warrant. Miss Mystery is a hit single, only it wasn’t. Why? Because they weren’t childhood friends with Jon Bon Jovi?

House of Lords were essentially Angel and Giuffria. They got signed to Simmons Records because of that history. That’s not a leg up?
Why weren’t they the next Zeppelin or Whitesnake?

Dokken….Don was close, personal friends with the Scorpions. We all know the history and story there. Still….Dokken was never Skid Row nevermind Guns N Roses. They even had young, dumb, naive fans like me who thought for one hot minute in 1986 that Don was the greatest vocalist and frontman of all time. Until we arrived at the arena or stadium to watch them as an opening act and saw just how bad he sucked.

Don’t get me started on George Lynch. Everyone gives Bruce Kulick sh*t for not having cool points or a stage presence. He was Hendrix compared to how boring Lynch was to watch in the late 80s. Lynch stood still so much onstage, I thought he might be a stone s statue wheeled out onstage before the lights when up. Boring AF

Hollywood had plenty of upside in 1987. You’ve told us so. Much more so than New York. Correct? You guys had the legendary, infamous clubs from Santa Monica to Sunset to Reseda. There was a history there. All the suits and labels were located there too. I remember walking by Geffen Records one night in late summer 1989. All you Hollywood bands had plenty of advantages that the east coast bands did not. You guys even had a movie made about your scene. I knew your and Lean’s faces and band name before I had ever heard of Skid Row or Sebastian Bach.

I know it kills you to give Bach any kind of credit. But if Matt was so good and Jon was writing the checks and attaching the training wheels, why didn’t they take off in 1987 or 88 at the latest? It was all the same songs…..your thread title established that. So what was different? Only one thing: Sebastian Bach.

I’d probably want to punch him out or slit my wrist with a dull knife too like Rachel does. But SR with Bach made Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Ratt, Dokken, WASP and even Def Leppard and Motley look like washed up, old hat. For many, most people my age that band was Guns N Roses. But for me and even some of my friends, that band was Skid f*cking ROW!!!! I’ll take Skid Row and Slave to the Grind over anything Motley did from 1983 to 1989…maybe even 1982.

The Sleeze Beez and Britny Fox? Seriously? Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Sleeze Beez but they weren’t Skid Row never mind Guns N Roses.

Britny Fox? They were a poor man’s Cinderella. Their albums sucked! They made Bulletboys literally look like classic Van Halen, and I say that as not the biggest BB fan.

Yes Stevie, even at the age of 16 and 17 in 1989-90, I was FULLY aware that Sebastian didn’t write much on the first album. I didn’t care then and I DON’T CARE now. I was a HUGE Dave Sabo and Jim Southworth fan. Jim turned me onto Graham Maby and helped me expand my musical tastes as a listener and fan. Had they stuck with Matt, they’d be saying “Would you like some fries with that?” Although Rachel jumped all over the grunge wagon. I guess riding Jovi’s coattails was great from 1986-1992. But once it became unhip, he jumped ship. Dyed his hair reddish pink and seemed all disgruntled.

Most of these bands had no spine. Sadly, Poison was one of the few bands who did.

Sebastian, even though he hated the hair metal tag, he stayed fairly authentic, even when he was playing with clowns like Richie Scarlett.

Matt was no Paul Di’Anno. But Sebastian definitely was a Bruce Dickinson and Ozzy. Period.

Erik’s great! I love that kid! But they will never recapture the magic they had from 1989-1992. That time has passed.

If Bach was the KEY ingredient, and the END ALL, BE ALL to their success... well, how come he didn't go big after they booted him?

Roth went Platinum on 3 of his solo releases and Gold on a 4th. And he was in his 30s during all and pushing 40 at the time of that Gold record.

So, safe to say... Roth at that time, was also, a bit outdated? Except for the "EEAS" release (1986) when he basically peaked... at age 32. I only say this, as Roth was def yesterday's news by that time, Motley, Ratt, Bon Jovi and Dokken were all bigger frontpage news than Dave for what it's worth.

How come Bach didn't have a second wind, as a solo artist?

What you and all of the others fail to see, recognize, or even read... regarding MY point of view, is that it was NOT all Bach! That is so many of your opinions.

"Without Bach, they're nowhere", "It was all Sebastian" blah blah blah.

My point, that I have argued for years, is it was NOT all Bach.

If Bach was so great, and it was all him, how come he didn't "make it" with Madame X, or V05, or Kid Wikkid before Skid Row? How come Bach didn't blow up and sell Gold or Platinum, after Skid Row, when he was let go?

I mean, even though Bach was too, a Glam F@g for what it's worth, in the 80's... by the 90's, the heavier side of music was king, and he had a huge metal and heavier thing going on than say, Poison, or Warrant, or Winger, or Slaughter had, fair?

How come Mr. Super Star didn't pivot, in the late 90's and become 1 of those metal darlings like; Zakk, Dime, Zombie, Manson, etc... You know... all the guys who did become mega stars in that era based around the heavier style of music. How come Bach came up short?

My POINT all along, was it was Jon's ability to push that button. Along with Doc.

Anyone who doesn't think Jon or Doc, much-less both of them collectively weren't 2 of the most powerful people in the business in the 80's, is delusional.

Snake and Bolan had some great songs, and a great band, look, image, that seemingly hit at the exact right time.

Here is where the "Timing" and "Luck" factors come into play... big time.

They had all that going on, a little heavier, a bit more street, than say the Poison/Warrant thing, and were able to migrate over, and appeal to the GNR fans, some Judas Priest fans, some Iron Maiden followers, etc... all fair to say?

And we would all agree, that most Priest or Maiden fans will not support Slaughter or Warrant, the same way they might get into Skid Row.

We all agree, Bach could sing 90% of the 80's guys out of the room, and had comparisons to Dickinson, Halford, Dio, etc... all of whom became another level of legendary singers in the 90's, well after the glam era (80's) started to fade. Agree?

Bach absolutely was a major score for the band. to add to that lineup... and Jon sat idle for the most part, and didn't throw his full weight into the ring, until they had Bach.

Which is also why there was NO deal, NO big tour, NO MTV, NO press, etc... until, they had Bach in play. Similarly, the same with TUFF when I joined. As most know, I was the band's 3rd-4th singer, and they had been around about 3 years when I joined.

I am not taking away from what Bach brought to the table... not even close... but I also find it odd, when so many think it was just him. Like he joined the band, and it all just happened because of him. Not true.

Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum?

If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.

The power of the label head (President) being behind the band. The power of a A-level manager being able to make calls, the power of a friend like Jon Bon Jovi (Note: Jon was 10x as popular as Gene Simmons was in the 80's) getting behind the band, and ultimately, all of those things being in their favor, at the same time, made for a nice ride.

More on the Gene thing... KISS in the 80's were selling basically Gold or 1x Platinum for most of their releases. Bon Jovi on the other hand, was coming off of "Slippery When Wet" which sold Diamond (10M) in the U.S. alone, and about 20-25M worldwide. Jon's power, was much more impactful than Gene producing KEEL and taking them out on some dates, on what could easily be described as the lowest point of KISS' career.

Doc, much-like a Sharon Osbourne, could pick up the phone, and call Tim Collins (Aerosmith's manager) and say, "Hey, can we put my kids on that East Coast leg of shows with you guys after their run with Jon ends?"

Had our manager, Brian Kushner of Powerstar made that same call... the odds are less than 5% anything comes of it... but for Doc, it's almost a done deal, and it was.

I managed Vains of Jenna from 2005-2011, and for what it's worth, they did a lot, made a pretty nice impact, got deals, did some legit tours, endorsements, and much more.

The band definitely had something, some magic, timing was on their side, youth, etc... but... as good as all of those things were in their favor... without me, making the calls, orchestrating the plans, virtually NONE of that happened! NONE! ZERO!

That includes getting them on the Poison/Ratt tour, demos with Gilby Clarke, meeting and signing a deal with Bam Margera, and more.

They had a lot... but they had no guidance, no experience, and that is where the "business" side of the "music business" takes over.

$tEvil

[Tommy2Tone84]

"""""""""""""""""" as good as Dave and Rachel’s songs were, would have been as good or made the impact without Sebastian""""""""""""""""

Or, Jon Bon Jovi.

Or, Doc McGee.

Just to be clear... those 2 names had WAY more of an impact than the guy you listed above.

Anymore questions... ?

Or, have all of you air-headed Bach loyalists NOT realized yet, that Jon in their corner, was essentially playing Blackjack with an Ace out of the box.

Note... GN'R had NO Jon, and NO Doc in their corner. Neither did Poison, nor did Warrant, L.A. Guns, or Winger.

Those bands went and played clubs on their first tours, and built it from the lowest levels.

Of course, so did Skid Row (before the arrival of Bach), but out of the gate. their first tour was opening for Bon Jovi for a year straight.

Does anyone really believe, that being in that position did not sell their record? Or help in a huge way?

I understand though... I really do... being a "Fan" only gives you so much perspective.

Fans don't understand the true different in being signed by the President of the label, or some A&R guy who is 24 years old getting the "green light" to give a band a deal.

Most don't understand the difference in getting a $250-400k budget to make their record, or getting $30-60k to do the same.

Most fans don't understand why one band gets added to 50-75+ radio stations on week 1 with their single, and why some others only get added to 5-10 stations.

Most fans don't understand how or why, 1 band gets to open the arena show, and their other favorite band plays the local 300 seat club.

Most of the fans don't understand that having your manager be say, the same guy who manages Motley Crue, Bon Jovi and Scorpions is usually a HUGE help compared to having your manager represent Sleez Beez or Britny Fox, and how that dynamic is a difference that can only be described as a massive factor to help the final outcome.

Most fans don't realize that the guy with the nice hair. or the coolest jacket isn't always the guy who built the band. wrote the songs, or is the OG in the photo that helped build that house from the ground up, and the person who is hosting the open house was hired for that, but never lifted a hammer or saw.

My head hurts from some of the stupidity that exists in the world, and on this board too... but it's all good... life is great... it really is.

$tEvil

Steve. Matt joined Skid Row in 1986 and was in the band until late 1987 or sometime in 1988. They demoed the majority of the first album with Matt in Jon’s studio. They opened a couple of east Coast dates for Bon Jovi with Matt fronting the band. They didn’t take off. Matt isn’t a terrible singer but he had a limited range and didn’t have the personality and attitude that guys like Axl and Sebastian had. You’re talking minor leagues vs the majors. So your theory doesn’t hold up. I know it kills you to give Bach credit. But without him, I don’t see the band going anywhere. I don’t care who they have on their sidelines or in their back pocket due to childhood friendships.

Keel, Black N Blue and House of Lords all had Gene Simmons on their sides. Why didn’t any of them go anywhere? Keel, IIRC, even had Danny Goldmountain on their team. Why didn’t they take off? Keel opened a leg or two of Jovi’s Slippery tour. What happened?


BNB opened for KISS IN ARENAS and released plenty of albums and had videos on MTV. I remember them! I love me some JSJ. I wish he was still in Warrant. Miss Mystery is a hit single, only it wasn’t. Why? Because they weren’t childhood friends with Jon Bon Jovi?

House of Lords were essentially Angel and Giuffria. They got signed to Simmons Records because of that history. That’s not a leg up?
Why weren’t they the next Zeppelin or Whitesnake?

Dokken….Don was close, personal friends with the Scorpions. We all know the history and story there. Still….Dokken was never Skid Row nevermind Guns N Roses. They even had young, dumb, naive fans like me who thought for one hot minute in 1986 that Don was the greatest vocalist and frontman of all time. Until we arrived at the arena or stadium to watch them as an opening act and saw just how bad he sucked.

Don’t get me started on George Lynch. Everyone gives Bruce Kulick sh*t for not having cool points or a stage presence. He was Hendrix compared to how boring Lynch was to watch in the late 80s. Lynch stood still so much onstage, I thought he might be a stone s statue wheeled out onstage before the lights when up. Boring AF

Hollywood had plenty of upside in 1987. You’ve told us so. Much more so than New York. Correct? You guys had the legendary, infamous clubs from Santa Monica to Sunset to Reseda. There was a history there. All the suits and labels were located there too. I remember walking by Geffen Records one night in late summer 1989. All you Hollywood bands had plenty of advantages that the east coast bands did not. You guys even had a movie made about your scene. I knew your and Lean’s faces and band name before I had ever heard of Skid Row or Sebastian Bach.

I know it kills you to give Bach any kind of credit. But if Matt was so good and Jon was writing the checks and attaching the training wheels, why didn’t they take off in 1987 or 88 at the latest? It was all the same songs…..your thread title established that. So what was different? Only one thing: Sebastian Bach.

I’d probably want to punch him out or slit my wrist with a dull knife too like Rachel does. But SR with Bach made Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Ratt, Dokken, WASP and even Def Leppard and Motley look like washed up, old hat. For many, most people my age that band was Guns N Roses. But for me and even some of my friends, that band was Skid f*cking ROW!!!! I’ll take Skid Row and Slave to the Grind over anything Motley did from 1983 to 1989…maybe even 1982.

The Sleeze Beez and Britny Fox? Seriously? Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Sleeze Beez but they weren’t Skid Row never mind Guns N Roses.

Britny Fox? They were a poor man’s Cinderella. Their albums sucked! They made Bulletboys literally look like classic Van Halen, and I say that as not the biggest BB fan.

Yes Stevie, even at the age of 16 and 17 in 1989-90, I was FULLY aware that Sebastian didn’t write much on the first album. I didn’t care then and I DON’T CARE now. I was a HUGE Dave Sabo and Jim Southworth fan. Jim turned me onto Graham Maby and helped me expand my musical tastes as a listener and fan. Had they stuck with Matt, they’d be saying “Would you like some fries with that?” Although Rachel jumped all over the grunge wagon. I guess riding Jovi’s coattails was great from 1986-1992. But once it became unhip, he jumped ship. Dyed his hair reddish pink and seemed all disgruntled.

Most of these bands had no spine. Sadly, Poison was one of the few bands who did.

Sebastian, even though he hated the hair metal tag, he stayed fairly authentic, even when he was playing with clowns like Richie Scarlett.

Matt was no Paul Di’Anno. But Sebastian definitely was a Bruce Dickinson and Ozzy. Period.

Erik’s great! I love that kid! But they will never recapture the magic they had from 1989-1992. That time has passed.

If Bach was the KEY ingredient, and the END ALL, BE ALL to their success... well, how come he didn't go big after they booted him?

Roth went Platinum on 3 of his solo releases and Gold on a 4th. And he was in his 30s during all and pushing 40 at the time of that Gold record.

So, safe to say... Roth at that time, was also, a bit outdated? Except for the "EEAS" release (1986) when he basically peaked... at age 32. I only say this, as Roth was def yesterday's news by that time, Motley, Ratt, Bon Jovi and Dokken were all bigger frontpage news than Dave for what it's worth.

How come Bach didn't have a second wind, as a solo artist?

What you and all of the others fail to see, recognize, or even read... regarding MY point of view, is that it was NOT all Bach! That is so many of your opinions.

"Without Bach, they're nowhere", "It was all Sebastian" blah blah blah.

My point, that I have argued for years, is it was NOT all Bach.

If Bach was so great, and it was all him, how come he didn't "make it" with Madame X, or V05, or Kid Wikkid before Skid Row? How come Bach didn't blow up and sell Gold or Platinum, after Skid Row, when he was let go?

I mean, even though Bach was too, a Glam F@g for what it's worth, in the 80's... by the 90's, the heavier side of music was king, and he had a huge metal and heavier thing going on than say, Poison, or Warrant, or Winger, or Slaughter had, fair?

How come Mr. Super Star didn't pivot, in the late 90's and become 1 of those metal darlings like; Zakk, Dime, Zombie, Manson, etc... You know... all the guys who did become mega stars in that era based around the heavier style of music. How come Bach came up short?

My POINT all along, was it was Jon's ability to push that button. Along with Doc.

Anyone who doesn't think Jon or Doc, much-less both of them collectively weren't 2 of the most powerful people in the business in the 80's, is delusional.

Snake and Bolan had some great songs, and a great band, look, image, that seemingly hit at the exact right time.

Here is where the "Timing" and "Luck" factors come into play... big time.

They had all that going on, a little heavier, a bit more street, than say the Poison/Warrant thing, and were able to migrate over, and appeal to the GNR fans, some Judas Priest fans, some Iron Maiden followers, etc... all fair to say?

And we would all agree, that most Priest or Maiden fans will not support Slaughter or Warrant, the same way they might get into Skid Row.

We all agree, Bach could sing 90% of the 80's guys out of the room, and had comparisons to Dickinson, Halford, Dio, etc... all of whom became another level of legendary singers in the 90's, well after the glam era (80's) started to fade. Agree?

Bach absolutely was a major score for the band. to add to that lineup... and Jon sat idle for the most part, and didn't throw his full weight into the ring, until they had Bach.

Which is also why there was NO deal, NO big tour, NO MTV, NO press, etc... until, they had Bach in play. Similarly, the same with TUFF when I joined. As most know, I was the band's 3rd-4th singer, and they had been around about 3 years when I joined.

I am not taking away from what Bach brought to the table... not even close... but I also find it odd, when so many think it was just him. Like he joined the band, and it all just happened because of him. Not true.

Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum?

If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.

The power of the label head (President) being behind the band. The power of a A-level manager being able to make calls, the power of a friend like Jon Bon Jovi (Note: Jon was 10x as popular as Gene Simmons was in the 80's) getting behind the band, and ultimately, all of those things being in their favor, at the same time, made for a nice ride.

More on the Gene thing... KISS in the 80's were selling basically Gold or 1x Platinum for most of their releases. Bon Jovi on the other hand, was coming off of "Slippery When Wet" which sold Diamond (10M) in the U.S. alone, and about 20-25M worldwide. Jon's power, was much more impactful than Gene producing KEEL and taking them out on some dates, on what could easily be described as the lowest point of KISS' career.

Doc, much-like a Sharon Osbourne, could pick up the phone, and call Tim Collins (Aerosmith's manager) and say, "Hey, can we put my kids on that East Coast leg of shows with you guys after their run with Jon ends?"

Had our manager, Brian Kushner of Powerstar made that same call... the odds are less than 5% anything comes of it... but for Doc, it's almost a done deal, and it was.

I managed Vains of Jenna from 2005-2011, and for what it's worth, they did a lot, made a pretty nice impact, got deals, did some legit tours, endorsements, and much more.

The band definitely had something, some magic, timing was on their side, youth, etc... but... as good as all of those things were in their favor... without me, making the calls, orchestrating the plans, virtually NONE of that happened! NONE! ZERO!

That includes getting them on the Poison/Ratt tour, demos with Gilby Clarke, meeting and signing a deal with Bam Margera, and more.

They had a lot... but they had no guidance, no experience, and that is where the "business" side of the "music business" takes over.

$tEvil

Do you think SR would’ve taken off with Ray West? I don’t. As much as I liked Ray he wasn’t Sebastian. We saw how well Skid Row went over with Tony Harnell. It didn’t. We all tolerated Solinger. Erik is a much better fit than either of them.

It’s like Ozzy in Sabbath. As great as Dio and Gillian were, they weren’t Ozzy. Gillian was an odd fit for Sabbath.

EMN, Sleeze, and Babylon AD weren’t Skid Row. Just like BNB weren’t Bon Jovi. Hell, Ratt, Quiet Riot, and Dokken weren’t Bon Jovi. I didn’t mind Sleeze Beez but they weren’t Skid Row and I never understood the love for EMN and BAD around here. Bab AD especially

You’ve heard the demos with Matt. He just wasn’t that good.

1985 was Gene’s band’s lowest point? They were literally touring arenas and like you said, going gold and platinum. Plus Gene had a track record, not only his band’s 70s run but that he beat all the smartest suits in the room to the punch with Van Halen. I will say, I don’t think Bill Aucoin would’ve been a good fit for Van Halen so everything worked out. Getting back to Gene and KISS, their lowest point was 1980-1983, Unmasked thru Creatures.

Gene had a record label and took all those 80s bands under his wing. I’m sure if Mo or David had been knocking down Ron Keel’s door he would’ve taken the offer rather than go with Simmons Records. That said, Gene still offered them a shot. It’s not like KISS was on WB or Atlantic in the 70s. Well, they were briefly affiliated with Warners but the suits at Warners did their best to sabotage them. Bogart didn’t help his case much. You can’t take advance money eR marked for recording and promotion costs and instead buy a fleet of Mercedes for yourself and your staff.

I’m not arguing Doc and Jon’s clout. But you honestly can say that Babylon AD and low rent Skid Row bands like EMN would’ve been huge had Jon and Doc just offered a helping hand? Why isn’t Gorky Park international superstars then?


Steve, c’mon. Dave went solo in 1985 at the height of hair metal. Dave himself was hair metal whether his fans want to admit it or not. Sebastian went solo at the height of alternative and grunge. The label, radio and MTV support wasn’t there in 1998. It was there in 1985 for Dave, obviously. Apples to Oranges.

That said, I stand by my comment that Sebastian was every bit as good as the majority of his influences: Ozzy, Di’Anno, Dickinson, Halford, Lemmy, Monroe, Snider, Pearcy, Dokken, Elliott, Neil, Lee (Geddy not Tommy), Hetfield, Tyler, Simmons & Stanley, Plant, Rose etc. He just “had it” the same way John Sykes (yes, I love to troll his fan boys on here) had it as a guitarist.

You mentioned that SR or Sebastian specifically didn’t “pay his dues.” Yes he was in a touring Canadian band and then joined that terrible band with the Petrucci sisters and toured with them. I want to say I once read that the bass player, who was a lot older than Sebastian, didn’t treat him very well. Sebastian paid his dues just like the rest of you. That’s a little bit like saying Steve Perry didn’t pay his dues.

No argument that a good manger is a big key to a band’s success. I’ll flip the argument on you and ask would Zeppelin still be Zeppelin without Peter Grant in your opinion? That said, Peter Grant also managed The Yardbirds with Jimmy Page in the band and where are they now? Who are they?

Sebastian and SR just had it. Call it star quality, call it charisma, call an X Factor or what have you. Guns N Roses had it too even more so.

As much as I like BNB, Bon Jovi were a better band with better songs. Sure, they had Doc but do you think Doc could’ve turned BNB into a Bon Jovi? I don’t think he necessarily could’ve. Sometimes the cream rightfully rises to the top. Sometimes not, but often times it does. I know you’re a big Ratt fan. I like them too but I always found them a little overrated. When bands like Bon Jovi, Cinderella, Gun N Roses, Skid Row and even begrudgingly I’ll admit, Poison came along, I forgot about bands like Ratt. It’s not that I instantly and completely stopped listening to them but it was close to that. Even White Lion. When Pride came out in 1987+88, it was like Quiet Riot who? Twisted Sister what? As lame as Mike Tramp is, him and Vito along with James and Greg were way better imo. I’ll even say they were better than Dokken on that Pride record. But they aren’t Ratt are they? Is it really because of a manager or is it because of market forces? Or is because as pathetic as Ratt was, they had some pretty good songs and albums. That said, I’ll take Skid Row’s first three plus that covers EP over Ratt’s entire discography. Sebastian kicks Pearcy’s ass nine ways to Sunday. I say that and I love me some Freddie Coury and Arcade. That was a galant effort on Stephens’s part. But he nor his band were ever as good as Bon Jovi, Guns N Roses and Skid Row. Just like White Lion maybe wasn’t as good as Ratt….well… they weren’t.

Winger on the other hand, Imo, they were every bit as good as Ratt Amanda had the three albums to back it up. Same with Cinderella. I don’t know. Maybe my Winger and my Cinderella needed Doc, Scott and Doug.

One more question: How come Dokken wasn’t Diamond selling? They had the same management as Metallica? Was it really because Don didn’t listen to Cliff Bernstein’s advice to wear Levi’s rather than spandex? Or was it because Don always kind of sucked at his job? I tend to think it was the latter. Dokken were good writers and more than competent musicians but they, Don and George specifically sucked at their jobs. Bands like Skid Row didn’t. Sebastian and Co came out of the gates all snotty, breathing fire and FULL of piss and vinegar. You can’t teach that. Friend or no friend, Jon would’ve been an idiot to ignore that.

[MetalSludgeCEO]

What is all of this shit even about???

Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.

Songwriters are a dime per 1000 dozens. A near infinite amount of songs have been written, but without THAT performer, they go nowhere and are buried with the songwriter.

Liiiiiike, you can write the best ever fucking song, and it will just sit and rot without the right person to embody or interpret it. This goes back forever, but in the early part of the last century, you had guys like Fred Astaire, Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra that could take something by Gershwin, Porter, Kern or Berlin and make it a hit. Later on, you could land a song with Glen Campbell or Tom Jones or whatevs who would bring it to life and popularity.

Everybody faps for the songwriter since Dylan and the Beatles brought that shit in-house, but people forget that great songs can absolutely go nowhere without the right interpreter.

...liiiiike Rachel form Skid Row. Everybody thinks that Bach is the egotist who doesn't understand how fortunate he was, but the other 4 guys in the band SHOULD understand how fortunate THEY were to have him.

...buuuuuut, they do not. THOSE guys are just as wrong-headed and ignorant as Bach ever was, and for fuck's sake, the last 30 years should have shown them humility.

""""""""""""Not a single person would have given a single fuck about any song Skid Row recorded if they didn't have Bach.""""""""""""""""


As I stated in my novel below... Bach is not the only reason they had success, contrary to his Fan Club's thoughts.

-------------------
Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum?

If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.
-------------------

$tEvil

[MetalSludgeCEO]

Steve. Matt joined Skid Row in 1986 and was in the band until late 1987 or sometime in 1988. They demoed the majority of the first album with Matt in Jon’s studio. They opened a couple of east Coast dates for Bon Jovi with Matt fronting the band. They didn’t take off. Matt isn’t a terrible singer but he had a limited range and didn’t have the personality and attitude that guys like Axl and Sebastian had. You’re talking minor leagues vs the majors. So your theory doesn’t hold up. I know it kills you to give Bach credit. But without him, I don’t see the band going anywhere. I don’t care who they have on their sidelines or in their back pocket due to childhood friendships.

Keel, Black N Blue and House of Lords all had Gene Simmons on their sides. Why didn’t any of them go anywhere? Keel, IIRC, even had Danny Goldmountain on their team. Why didn’t they take off? Keel opened a leg or two of Jovi’s Slippery tour. What happened?


BNB opened for KISS IN ARENAS and released plenty of albums and had videos on MTV. I remember them! I love me some JSJ. I wish he was still in Warrant. Miss Mystery is a hit single, only it wasn’t. Why? Because they weren’t childhood friends with Jon Bon Jovi?

House of Lords were essentially Angel and Giuffria. They got signed to Simmons Records because of that history. That’s not a leg up?
Why weren’t they the next Zeppelin or Whitesnake?

Dokken….Don was close, personal friends with the Scorpions. We all know the history and story there. Still….Dokken was never Skid Row nevermind Guns N Roses. They even had young, dumb, naive fans like me who thought for one hot minute in 1986 that Don was the greatest vocalist and frontman of all time. Until we arrived at the arena or stadium to watch them as an opening act and saw just how bad he sucked.

Don’t get me started on George Lynch. Everyone gives Bruce Kulick sh*t for not having cool points or a stage presence. He was Hendrix compared to how boring Lynch was to watch in the late 80s. Lynch stood still so much onstage, I thought he might be a stone s statue wheeled out onstage before the lights when up. Boring AF

Hollywood had plenty of upside in 1987. You’ve told us so. Much more so than New York. Correct? You guys had the legendary, infamous clubs from Santa Monica to Sunset to Reseda. There was a history there. All the suits and labels were located there too. I remember walking by Geffen Records one night in late summer 1989. All you Hollywood bands had plenty of advantages that the east coast bands did not. You guys even had a movie made about your scene. I knew your and Lean’s faces and band name before I had ever heard of Skid Row or Sebastian Bach.

I know it kills you to give Bach any kind of credit. But if Matt was so good and Jon was writing the checks and attaching the training wheels, why didn’t they take off in 1987 or 88 at the latest? It was all the same songs…..your thread title established that. So what was different? Only one thing: Sebastian Bach.

I’d probably want to punch him out or slit my wrist with a dull knife too like Rachel does. But SR with Bach made Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Ratt, Dokken, WASP and even Def Leppard and Motley look like washed up, old hat. For many, most people my age that band was Guns N Roses. But for me and even some of my friends, that band was Skid f*cking ROW!!!! I’ll take Skid Row and Slave to the Grind over anything Motley did from 1983 to 1989…maybe even 1982.

The Sleeze Beez and Britny Fox? Seriously? Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Sleeze Beez but they weren’t Skid Row never mind Guns N Roses.

Britny Fox? They were a poor man’s Cinderella. Their albums sucked! They made Bulletboys literally look like classic Van Halen, and I say that as not the biggest BB fan.

Yes Stevie, even at the age of 16 and 17 in 1989-90, I was FULLY aware that Sebastian didn’t write much on the first album. I didn’t care then and I DON’T CARE now. I was a HUGE Dave Sabo and Jim Southworth fan. Jim turned me onto Graham Maby and helped me expand my musical tastes as a listener and fan. Had they stuck with Matt, they’d be saying “Would you like some fries with that?” Although Rachel jumped all over the grunge wagon. I guess riding Jovi’s coattails was great from 1986-1992. But once it became unhip, he jumped ship. Dyed his hair reddish pink and seemed all disgruntled.

Most of these bands had no spine. Sadly, Poison was one of the few bands who did.

Sebastian, even though he hated the hair metal tag, he stayed fairly authentic, even when he was playing with clowns like Richie Scarlett.

Matt was no Paul Di’Anno. But Sebastian definitely was a Bruce Dickinson and Ozzy. Period.

Erik’s great! I love that kid! But they will never recapture the magic they had from 1989-1992. That time has passed.

If Bach was the KEY ingredient, and the END ALL, BE ALL to their success... well, how come he didn't go big after they booted him?

Roth went Platinum on 3 of his solo releases and Gold on a 4th. And he was in his 30s during all and pushing 40 at the time of that Gold record.

So, safe to say... Roth at that time, was also, a bit outdated? Except for the "EEAS" release (1986) when he basically peaked... at age 32. I only say this, as Roth was def yesterday's news by that time, Motley, Ratt, Bon Jovi and Dokken were all bigger frontpage news than Dave for what it's worth.

How come Bach didn't have a second wind, as a solo artist?

What you and all of the others fail to see, recognize, or even read... regarding MY point of view, is that it was NOT all Bach! That is so many of your opinions.

"Without Bach, they're nowhere", "It was all Sebastian" blah blah blah.

My point, that I have argued for years, is it was NOT all Bach.

If Bach was so great, and it was all him, how come he didn't "make it" with Madame X, or V05, or Kid Wikkid before Skid Row? How come Bach didn't blow up and sell Gold or Platinum, after Skid Row, when he was let go?

I mean, even though Bach was too, a Glam F@g for what it's worth, in the 80's... by the 90's, the heavier side of music was king, and he had a huge metal and heavier thing going on than say, Poison, or Warrant, or Winger, or Slaughter had, fair?

How come Mr. Super Star didn't pivot, in the late 90's and become 1 of those metal darlings like; Zakk, Dime, Zombie, Manson, etc... You know... all the guys who did become mega stars in that era based around the heavier style of music. How come Bach came up short?

My POINT all along, was it was Jon's ability to push that button. Along with Doc.

Anyone who doesn't think Jon or Doc, much-less both of them collectively weren't 2 of the most powerful people in the business in the 80's, is delusional.

Snake and Bolan had some great songs, and a great band, look, image, that seemingly hit at the exact right time.

Here is where the "Timing" and "Luck" factors come into play... big time.

They had all that going on, a little heavier, a bit more street, than say the Poison/Warrant thing, and were able to migrate over, and appeal to the GNR fans, some Judas Priest fans, some Iron Maiden followers, etc... all fair to say?

And we would all agree, that most Priest or Maiden fans will not support Slaughter or Warrant, the same way they might get into Skid Row.

We all agree, Bach could sing 90% of the 80's guys out of the room, and had comparisons to Dickinson, Halford, Dio, etc... all of whom became another level of legendary singers in the 90's, well after the glam era (80's) started to fade. Agree?

Bach absolutely was a major score for the band. to add to that lineup... and Jon sat idle for the most part, and didn't throw his full weight into the ring, until they had Bach.

Which is also why there was NO deal, NO big tour, NO MTV, NO press, etc... until, they had Bach in play. Similarly, the same with TUFF when I joined. As most know, I was the band's 3rd-4th singer, and they had been around about 3 years when I joined.

I am not taking away from what Bach brought to the table... not even close... but I also find it odd, when so many think it was just him. Like he joined the band, and it all just happened because of him. Not true.

Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum?

If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.

The power of the label head (President) being behind the band. The power of a A-level manager being able to make calls, the power of a friend like Jon Bon Jovi (Note: Jon was 10x as popular as Gene Simmons was in the 80's) getting behind the band, and ultimately, all of those things being in their favor, at the same time, made for a nice ride.

More on the Gene thing... KISS in the 80's were selling basically Gold or 1x Platinum for most of their releases. Bon Jovi on the other hand, was coming off of "Slippery When Wet" which sold Diamond (10M) in the U.S. alone, and about 20-25M worldwide. Jon's power, was much more impactful than Gene producing KEEL and taking them out on some dates, on what could easily be described as the lowest point of KISS' career.

Doc, much-like a Sharon Osbourne, could pick up the phone, and call Tim Collins (Aerosmith's manager) and say, "Hey, can we put my kids on that East Coast leg of shows with you guys after their run with Jon ends?"

Had our manager, Brian Kushner of Powerstar made that same call... the odds are less than 5% anything comes of it... but for Doc, it's almost a done deal, and it was.

I managed Vains of Jenna from 2005-2011, and for what it's worth, they did a lot, made a pretty nice impact, got deals, did some legit tours, endorsements, and much more.

The band definitely had something, some magic, timing was on their side, youth, etc... but... as good as all of those things were in their favor... without me, making the calls, orchestrating the plans, virtually NONE of that happened! NONE! ZERO!

That includes getting them on the Poison/Ratt tour, demos with Gilby Clarke, meeting and signing a deal with Bam Margera, and more.

They had a lot... but they had no guidance, no experience, and that is where the "business" side of the "music business" takes over.

$tEvil

Do you think SR would’ve taken off with Ray West? I don’t. As much as I liked Ray he wasn’t Sebastian. We saw how well Skid Row went over with Tony Harnell. It didn’t. We all tolerated Solinger. Erik is a much better fit than either of them.

It’s like Ozzy in Sabbath. As great as Dio and Gillian were, they weren’t Ozzy. Gillian was an odd fit for Sabbath.

EMN, Sleeze, and Babylon AD weren’t Skid Row. Just like BNB weren’t Bon Jovi. Hell, Ratt, Quiet Riot, and Dokken weren’t Bon Jovi. I didn’t mind Sleeze Beez but they weren’t Skid Row and I never understood the love for EMN and BAD around here. Bab AD especially

You’ve heard the demos with Matt. He just wasn’t that good.

1985 was Gene’s band’s lowest point? They were literally touring arenas and like you said, going gold and platinum. Plus Gene had a track record, not only his band’s 70s run but that he beat all the smartest suits in the room to the punch with Van Halen. I will say, I don’t think Bill Aucoin would’ve been a good fit for Van Halen so everything worked out. Getting back to Gene and KISS, their lowest point was 1980-1983, Unmasked thru Creatures.

Gene had a record label and took all those 80s bands under his wing. I’m sure if Mo or David had been knocking down Ron Keel’s door he would’ve taken the offer rather than go with Simmons Records. That said, Gene still offered them a shot. It’s not like KISS was on WB or Atlantic in the 70s. Well, they were briefly affiliated with Warners but the suits at Warners did their best to sabotage them. Bogart didn’t help his case much. You can’t take advance money eR marked for recording and promotion costs and instead buy a fleet of Mercedes for yourself and your staff.

I’m not arguing Doc and Jon’s clout. But you honestly can say that Babylon AD and low rent Skid Row bands like EMN would’ve been huge had Jon and Doc just offered a helping hand? Why isn’t Gorky Park international superstars then?


Steve, c’mon. Dave went solo in 1985 at the height of hair metal. Dave himself was hair metal whether his fans want to admit it or not. Sebastian went solo at the height of alternative and grunge. The label, radio and MTV support wasn’t there in 1998. It was there in 1985 for Dave, obviously. Apples to Oranges.

That said, I stand by my comment that Sebastian was every bit as good as the majority of his influences: Ozzy, Di’Anno, Dickinson, Halford, Lemmy, Monroe, Snider, Pearcy, Dokken, Elliott, Neil, Lee (Geddy not Tommy), Hetfield, Tyler, Simmons & Stanley, Plant, Rose etc. He just “had it” the same way John Sykes (yes, I love to troll his fan boys on here) had it as a guitarist.

You mentioned that SR or Sebastian specifically didn’t “pay his dues.” Yes he was in a touring Canadian band and then joined that terrible band with the Petrucci sisters and toured with them. I want to say I once read that the bass player, who was a lot older than Sebastian, didn’t treat him very well. Sebastian paid his dues just like the rest of you. That’s a little bit like saying Steve Perry didn’t pay his dues.

No argument that a good manger is a big key to a band’s success. I’ll flip the argument on you and ask would Zeppelin still be Zeppelin without Peter Grant in your opinion? That said, Peter Grant also managed The Yardbirds with Jimmy Page in the band and where are they now? Who are they?

Sebastian and SR just had it. Call it star quality, call it charisma, call an X Factor or what have you. Guns N Roses had it too even more so.

As much as I like BNB, Bon Jovi were a better band with better songs. Sure, they had Doc but do you think Doc could’ve turned BNB into a Bon Jovi? I don’t think he necessarily could’ve. Sometimes the cream rightfully rises to the top. Sometimes not, but often times it does. I know you’re a big Ratt fan. I like them too but I always found them a little overrated. When bands like Bon Jovi, Cinderella, Gun N Roses, Skid Row and even begrudgingly I’ll admit, Poison came along, I forgot about bands like Ratt. It’s not that I instantly and completely stopped listening to them but it was close to that. Even White Lion. When Pride came out in 1987+88, it was like Quiet Riot who? Twisted Sister what? As lame as Mike Tramp is, him and Vito along with James and Greg were way better imo. I’ll even say they were better than Dokken on that Pride record. But they aren’t Ratt are they? Is it really because of a manager or is it because of market forces? Or is because as pathetic as Ratt was, they had some pretty good songs and albums. That said, I’ll take Skid Row’s first three plus that covers EP over Ratt’s entire discography. Sebastian kicks Pearcy’s ass nine ways to Sunday. I say that and I love me some Freddie Coury and Arcade. That was a galant effort on Stephens’s part. But he nor his band were ever as good as Bon Jovi, Guns N Roses and Skid Row. Just like White Lion maybe wasn’t as good as Ratt….well… they weren’t.

Winger on the other hand, Imo, they were every bit as good as Ratt Amanda had the three albums to back it up. Same with Cinderella. I don’t know. Maybe my Winger and my Cinderella needed Doc, Scott and Doug.

One more question: How come Dokken wasn’t Diamond selling? They had the same management as Metallica? Was it really because Don didn’t listen to Cliff Bernstein’s advice to wear Levi’s rather than spandex? Or was it because Don always kind of sucked at his job? I tend to think it was the latter. Dokken were good writers and more than competent musicians but they, Don and George specifically sucked at their jobs. Bands like Skid Row didn’t. Sebastian and Co came out of the gates all snotty, breathing fire and FULL of piss and vinegar. You can’t teach that. Friend or no friend, Jon would’ve been an idiot to ignore that.

"""""""""""""Do you think SR would’ve taken off with Ray West? """""""""""""""

No.

Why?

Because Ray West was not a cool stage name in the 80's... ask LAGlamRocker... he'll tell you.

Had Ray changed his name to Rikki West, or Bobby West, or Ray Lawless...and bleached his hair... then maybe!

Note: * That was sarcasm for the morons who can't decipher it!



""""""""""""""""I’m not arguing Doc and Jon’s clout. But you honestly can say that Babylon AD and low rent Skid Row bands like EMN would’ve been huge had Jon and Doc just offered a helping hand? Why isn’t Gorky Park international superstars then? """"""""""""""""""""""

Funny... now we're putting words in my mouth? Ha!

I never said that... my point was if Bach is the KEY factor why they sold so big... then do you think Bach fronting those bands would've sold platinum. The answer is NO!


""""""""""""""You mentioned that SR or Sebastian specifically didn’t “pay his dues.”""""""""""""""""

I never said that either... and if so... please show me those where?

I am well aware of his stints in Madame X, etc...

$tEvil

[Sleek]

As I stated in my novel below... Bach is not the only reason they had success, contrary to his Fan Club's thoughts.

-------------------




The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.
-------------------

$tEvil

Yeahhhh....McGhee had his failures, and his two biggest successes, Bon Jovi and Motley were pretty much on inevitable arcs towards stardom before he got to them.

Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum? If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

I don't know who most of those are, but could see a Bach fronted BNB doing pretty well. That band's problem was always that they were a charisma vacuum.

...shouldn't we be also asking why Bach has had a far better career than Skids after the two separated? Fucker had reality shows and opened for GNR. His base-level charisma kept people interested in him even after the Skid Row-penned songs stopped.

But Skids?

Ask anybody who isn't actively on Metal Sludge, and I imagine the answer would be: "Oh. Are THEY still going? Did they ever get Back back?"

We're not gonna see Rachael Bolan on the masked singer or whatever reality thing. The hosts would just get too tired of asking: "Who are you again, and why should we care?"

[DemonFilth2001]

Yep. Skid were faceless nobodies. Scotti looked sorta crazy. That one dude had the nose chain. But when Skid is mentioned, Bach is the person that is associated with them.

[Sleek]

I suppose the REAL question is if, all other things being the same ~connex, management, pre-written songs, would Skid Row have been as big with STEVIE RACHELLE singing?

Please discuss

[DangerZone]

It’s not really an either or question.

Good songs & Back collided at the right time.
But Bach’s charisma was a main reason.

It’s similar to Alice In Chains - Jerry wrote the songs but Layne’s charisma is the main ingredient.
Nobody knows the other 2.
Same as Pearl Jam

Bach’s charisma worked against him in the 90s - he became a joke because he was seen as an 80s burnout.
But he was still seen

[Fat_Elvis]

I suppose the REAL question is if, all other things being the same ~connex, management, pre-written songs, would Skid Row have been as big with STEVIE RACHELLE singing?

Please discuss

That would have been a major insult to Matt Fallon!

[Love_Industry]

I suppose the REAL question is if, all other things being the same ~connex, management, pre-written songs, would Skid Row have been as big with STEVIE RACHELLE singing?

Please discuss

That would have been a major insult to Matt Fallon!

Speaking of Fallon, he was fired from Anthrax after a short time too, but was he ever in Pantera? I thought so for a long time and they had many short term vocalists between Glaze and Anselmo, but then someone - possibly on here - said it wasn't him but someone with a similar name.

[Tommy2Tone84]

A lot of good looking guys with good voices hanging around LA could have been air-dropped into that band and the result would have been exactly the same: the songs were there, the right people were backing the band, they just needed the right guy to come in and sing the tunes.

Bach is a great singer, but he was just as much a Rent-A-Singer singing someone else's songs as ZP Threat.

Which is why they has never been, and never will be, a Skid Row "reunion" - Because Bach was never really part of the core band. They weren't friends, he wasn't there when they got their deal, he wasn't there when the songs were written.

As good as ZP was, he isn’t and never was Sebastian. It’s cool the hate Sebastian around here but Skid Row would not have taken off with Bert Miracles, Stevie Rachelle, Jani Lane, Tony Harnell, Jizzy Pearl, Davy Vain, Whitfield Crane, Ralph Saenz, Marq Torien or even singers whose vocal abilities I’m in awe of like Jeff Scott Soto, Michael Kiske, Stephen Shareaux, Jeff Martin, Miljenko Matijevic, Tim Owens. Sebastian was the perfect age, had the perfect voice, perfect attitude and perfect image for that band. Both camps are idiots for not figuring out how to make it work. I think it says a lot that Nice Guy Affuso wouldn’t come back unless Sebastian was there. That says a lot. While Sebastian had his faults, the other three have their issues too. How many singers have they gone through in the last 23 years? Four? Nuff said.

I’ll go so far and be so bold to say that even without knowing Jon personally like they did, they still would have made it and did roughly the same business that they did. Preferably they would’ve found Sebastian prior meeting Matt. Had they, they might have made it a year or two earlier. They were a much better band than most of their West and East Coast Coast peers and competition.

Skid Row had some slop in their live game but unlike Warrant, Skid Row made up for it in attitude, charisma, onstage chemistry and songs. Warrant didn’t have that. Skid Row also got better. I wasn’t that impressed with Warrant as headliners.

[Love_Industry]

Skid Row had some slop in their live game but unlike Warrant, Skid Row made up for it in attitude, charisma, onstage chemistry and songs. Warrant didn’t have that. Skid Row also got better. I wasn’t that impressed with Warrant as headliners.

Skid Row killed it opening for Mötley then Guns but when they headlined on STTG it became obvious that they were four boring guys in the band and too many songs were filler.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Skid Row had some slop in their live game but unlike Warrant, Skid Row made up for it in attitude, charisma, onstage chemistry and songs. Warrant didn’t have that. Skid Row also got better. I wasn’t that impressed with Warrant as headliners.

Skid Row killed it opening for Mötley then Guns but when they headlined on STTG it became obvious that they were four boring guys in the band and too many songs were filler.

I never thought Scotti, Dave or Rob were boring. The s/t for me is all killer to me. Slave has some filler. I think the dysfunction had come to a head by 1992. By 1995 it was all over but the shouting. Rachel would’ve rather been in Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins by then.

[Tommy2Tone84]

As I stated in my novel below... Bach is not the only reason they had success, contrary to his Fan Club's thoughts.

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The answer is No to all of those... or at least its very safe to say.
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$tEvil

Yeahhhh....McGhee had his failures, and his two biggest successes, Bon Jovi and Motley were pretty much on inevitable arcs towards stardom before he got to them.

Had Bach joined Babylon A.D., do you think they would have went 5x platinum? If Bach had joined Sleez Beez, or Black n' Blue, or Every Mother's Nightmare, would they have went platinum?

I don't know who most of those are, but could see a Bach fronted BNB doing pretty well. That band's problem was always that they were a charisma vacuum.

...shouldn't we be also asking why Bach has had a far better career than Skids after the two separated? Fucker had reality shows and opened for GNR. His base-level charisma kept people interested in him even after the Skid Row-penned songs stopped.

But Skids?

Ask anybody who isn't actively on Metal Sludge, and I imagine the answer would be: "Oh. Are THEY still going? Did they ever get Back back?"

We're not gonna see Rachael Bolan on the masked singer or whatever reality thing. The hosts would just get too tired of asking: "Who are you again, and why should we care?"

Yeah, Motley could’ve made with Bill Aucoin managing them. Bon Jovi still would’ve made it with Larry Mazer at the helm

A charisma vacuum. that’s a good one!

I’m not a fan of the MS but it’s like you said earlier, the band with Rachel especially never fully appreciated what Bach brought to the band. The Solinger years were bad and they sacked him unprofessionally. Of course when he died it was “our brother Johnny.” They sacked Tony acrimoniously while ZP seemed to be equally sick of them as they here of him. They only recorded one song with him. So far so good with Erik but if things go South with him I will be Team Erik. He seems like a vey grateful and sweet kid. If they can’t make it work with him that’s on them.

[Love_Industry]

[ when they headlined on STTG it became obvious that they were four boring guys in the band and too many songs were filler.

I never thought Scotti, Dave or Rob were boring. The s/t for me is all killer to me. Slave has some filler. I think the dysfunction had come to a head by 1992. By 1995 it was all over but the shouting. Rachel would’ve rather been in Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins by then.

Yeah, this was the STTG tour. There's a lot of filler there and they played The Threat, Riot Act, Mudkicker, GTFO.... and two pointless covers Psycho Therapy and Train Kept a Rollin'.

Skid Row was one of the bands that seemed most comfortable ditching the hair metal style. Danger Danger and LA Guns too.

[Tommy2Tone84]

[ when they headlined on STTG it became obvious that they were four boring guys in the band and too many songs were filler.

I never thought Scotti, Dave or Rob were boring. The s/t for me is all killer to me. Slave has some filler. I think the dysfunction had come to a head by 1992. By 1995 it was all over but the shouting. Rachel would’ve rather been in Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins by then.

Yeah, this was the STTG tour. There's a lot of filler there and they played The Threat, Riot Act, Mudkicker, GTFO.... and two pointless covers Psycho Therapy and Train Kept a Rollin'.

Skid Row was one of the bands that seemed most comfortable ditching the hair metal style. Danger Danger and LA Guns too.

I like Mudkicker and Riot. GTFO…I liked at the time but meh. I never loved The Threat. Psycho Therapy was fun like once or twice but was my first red flag regarding Rachel.

I didn’t mind their cover of Train but enjoyed their live version of Cold Gin better. Neither one needed to be staples by ‘92.

They were still fairly hair metal in ‘92 in my opinion. While I’m a big fan of Subhuman that’s when things got real awkward

I thought Poison did well with Kotzen and Blues.

Warrant started off strong with DED. Then they ended up looking and sounding like desperate trend followers

Winger was very impressive with Pull

I lost interest in Danger after the first album