David Lee Roth, Cinderella, Extreme Tour 1991

[Nobodyspecial]

I saw this show at Great Woods in Mansfield, MA. Extreme were the best band by far that day. Cinderella had the volume so loud everything was way over distorted and painful to the ears. DLR was horrible. Forgetting words the that stupid dance sword routine. I have pictures from this somewhere. I’ll see if I can dig them up.

[Nobodyspecial]

Found some. A couple of Extreme and a Couple of Cinderella.

[LitaStrauss]

"A Little Ain't Enough" came out 33 years ago today! Fun fact.

Saw this tour at Pine Knob and it was pretty packed from what I remember, but Detroit always did well for rock bands.

This was the setlist from that show:

You Really Got Me
A Lil' Ain't Enough
Panama
Unchained
Easy Street
Just a Gigolo / I Ain't Got Nobody
Beautiful Girls
Hot for Teacher
Sensible Shoes
Just Like Paradise
Yankee Rose
Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love
California Girls

Encore:
Jump

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/david-le ... 1db06.html

Cinderella setlist:
The More Things Change
Push Push
Sick for the Cure
Love's Got Me Doin' Time
Night Songs
Shelter Me
Heartbreak Station
Coming Home
Bad Seamstress Blues/Fallin' Apart at the Seams
Somebody Save Me
Drum Solo / Instrumental Jam
Don't Know What You Got (Till It's Gone)
Nobody's Fool
Gypsy Road
Shake Me

Extreme's setlist:
It ('s a Monster)
When I'm President
Decadence Dance
More Than Words
Hole Hearted
Play With Me
Guitar Solo
Get the Funk Out

[Bono Nettencourt]

I saw this show at Great Woods in Mansfield, MA. Extreme were the best band by far that day. Cinderella had the volume so loud everything was way over distorted and painful to the ears. DLR was horrible. Forgetting words the that stupid dance sword routine. I have pictures from this somewhere. I’ll see if I can dive the up.

Yeah that whole "hidden stage" bit DLR did was scaled wayyy down from the Skyscraper tour...

[LurkingAtWork]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

[Tommy2Tone84]

I think the answer lies here. It was VH/Hagar vs Dave solo. VH won by a mile. F.U.C.K. went to #1, sold millions and had a number of big hits including Right Now that was a HUGE international/crossover hit. Plus they took Alice in Chains out with them which gave them even more crossover appeal.

Plus, as mentioned in several replies, so many bands were out on tour. It was very competitive.

Dave eventually would do theater tours on his own which I think worked out better than trying to be an arena act with younger opening bands.

I don’t remember Dave doing theaters.

I agree with others that Dave was long in the tooth and self parody. But he always had an element of self parody during his solo career. I tend to think losing Billy and then Steve killed his career or killed the excitement surrounding him as a solo act. As good as Jason was, I’m not so confident that he would’ve attracted fans. Dio had wunderkind Rowan Robertson at the time. Rowan is just as good as Viv ever was and better than clowns like Phil Collen. It’s not like he resurrected Dio’s flailing career at the time.

Fans also were losing interest in Cinderella. It’s criminal their tour failed while Warrant’s limped along across the finish line. Same with Tesla a year later. They sucked live. I’ve seen Cinderella at least a half a dozen times and even in less than ideal conditions, they were still solid even if you could tell they wanted to be somewhere else.

Extreme should’ve brought out tons of fans. It’s a sad narrative that they didn’t despite all their success at the time.

Their hits kinda came by accident tho, a product of that whole 90-91 Unplugged craze. See also Tesla and Mr. Big.

I could argue that all of Poison’s success in LWTcDI was an accident. The label wanted to shut the album down after Cry Tough and 250,000 in sales. They didn’t believe in it.

I had some friends and classmates who sang Extreme’s and and Nuno’s praises from the rooftops and highest mountains at the time. It’s not that I didn’t like some singles like Mutha, Kid Ego, Dance and GTFO. It’s just that they weren’t quite connecting with me. But after I gave PG a real solid listen it started to change my mind. My friends were right and I was wrong. Extreme are brilliant.

I’m not sure why they were unable to bring the fans out in droves on that tour. Possibly since they weren’t the headliners when they should’ve been. Maybe putting the tour in theaters would’ve helped or maybe there was just some sort of disconnect with fans that other bands like Poison didn’t have to worry about or deal with. Whatever the reasons, it’s a shame. Extreme and Cinderella are great bands and they both had stellar albums out at the time.


While I feel for Dave’s situation with Jason, I’ll make the Dio comparison again, I was probably a bigger Dio fan than Dave fan at the time. I love that Wolves album and I’m a huge nutswinger of Rowan’s but sadly like Dio and even Alice Cooper, Dave’s time had passed. I do think that keeping Steve and Billy happy and in the band might have helped. But Alice’s career has ebbed and flowed. He just melt at it. Same with Dio. I felt bad for Dio that his Wolves tour didn’t bring out the masses. I’m not convinced Jimmy’s and Vinny’s presence would have brought out the fans. But it would’ve been cool had his gotten Bob Daisley or Geezer. On the other hand, Bob seemed content playing for Gary at the time,

[Tommy2Tone84]

Found some. A couple of Extreme and a Couple of Cinderella.

Those are awesome!!!! Thank you for posting.

I don’t get why bands have to play so loud. Is it the sound guy? Is it the band? I do remember seeing Cinderella in a club in the 90s and they were loud. I saw them in sheds later on and their sound was better.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

Were they trying to trend-surf the Crowes maybe?

[Fletch]

I gotta admit, I’d probably have been pretty happy with this set :

“This was the setlist from that show:

You Really Got Me
A Lil' Ain't Enough
Panama
Unchained
Easy Street
Just a Gigolo / I Ain't Got Nobody
Beautiful Girls
Hot for Teacher
Sensible Shoes
Just Like Paradise
Yankee Rose
Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love
California Girls

Encore:
Jump”

[Bono Nettencourt]

Spoken just like a man who wasn't there.

[ijwthstd]

Full show just turned up a few weeks ago on a new-ish channel and there is enough there to keep your average Sludger occupied til the end of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjagyWuyW4

Haven't scrolled down yet to see if there is a Cinderella set

[Bono Nettencourt]

Holy fuck that's the show I was at!

Thanks!

[BernieTaupson]

I gotta admit, I’d probably have been pretty happy with this set :

“This was the setlist from that show:

You Really Got Me
A Lil' Ain't Enough
Panama
Unchained
Easy Street
Just a Gigolo / I Ain't Got Nobody
Beautiful Girls
Hot for Teacher
Sensible Shoes
Just Like Paradise
Yankee Rose
Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love
California Girls

Encore:
Jump”

For the sake of comparison here is a 1991 Van Halen setlist.

Nov 4 1991

Poundcake
Judgement Day
Runaround
When It's Love
There's Only One Way to Rock (Sammy Hagar song)
Bass Solo
Drum Solo
A.F.U. (Naturally Wired)
Panama
Why Can't This Be Love
Finish What Ya Started
Eagles Fly (Sammy Hagar song)
Guitar Solo
You Really Got Me
I Can't Drive 55 (Sammy Hagar song)
Best of Both Worlds
The Dream Is Over

Encore:
Jump
Top of the World

[Bono Nettencourt]

If thats the Spectrum, tho, the dates wrong - he played there 6/24/91. I'll have to watch the whole thing to make sure. If they filmed the B-stage I'll be able to tell.

*Yeah, it's Philly. Make Herrs Yours. They got the date wrong. Sub in Tell the Truth for Sensible Shoes in the setlist posted earlier.

[El Vampiro Blanco]

I don’t remember Dave doing theaters.

I agree with others that Dave was long in the tooth and self parody. But he always had an element of self parody during his solo career. I tend to think losing Billy and then Steve killed his career or killed the excitement surrounding him as a solo act. As good as Jason was, I’m not so confident that he would’ve attracted fans. Dio had wunderkind Rowan Robertson at the time. Rowan is just as good as Viv ever was and better than clowns like Phil Collen. It’s not like he resurrected Dio’s flailing career at the time.

Fans also were losing interest in Cinderella. It’s criminal their tour failed while Warrant’s limped along across the finish line. Same with Tesla a year later. They sucked live. I’ve seen Cinderella at least a half a dozen times and even in less than ideal conditions, they were still solid even if you could tell they wanted to be somewhere else.

Extreme should’ve brought out tons of fans. It’s a sad narrative that they didn’t despite all their success at the time.

Their hits kinda came by accident tho, a product of that whole 90-91 Unplugged craze. See also Tesla and Mr. Big.

I could argue that all of Poison’s success in LWTcDI was an accident. The label wanted to shut the album down after Cry Tough and 250,000 in sales. They didn’t believe in it.

I had some friends and classmates who sang Extreme’s and and Nuno’s praises from the rooftops and highest mountains at the time. It’s not that I didn’t like some singles like Mutha, Kid Ego, Dance and GTFO. It’s just that they weren’t quite connecting with me. But after I gave PG a real solid listen it started to change my mind. My friends were right and I was wrong. Extreme are brilliant.

I’m not sure why they were unable to bring the fans out in droves on that tour. Possibly since they weren’t the headliners when they should’ve been. Maybe putting the tour in theaters would’ve helped or maybe there was just some sort of disconnect with fans that other bands like Poison didn’t have to worry about or deal with. Whatever the reasons, it’s a shame. Extreme and Cinderella are great bands and they both had stellar albums out at the time.


While I feel for Dave’s situation with Jason, I’ll make the Dio comparison again, I was probably a bigger Dio fan than Dave fan at the time. I love that Wolves album and I’m a huge nutswinger of Rowan’s but sadly like Dio and even Alice Cooper, Dave’s time had passed. I do think that keeping Steve and Billy happy and in the band might have helped. But Alice’s career has ebbed and flowed. He just melt at it. Same with Dio. I felt bad for Dio that his Wolves tour didn’t bring out the masses. I’m not convinced Jimmy’s and Vinny’s presence would have brought out the fans. But it would’ve been cool had his gotten Bob Daisley or Geezer. On the other hand, Bob seemed content playing for Gary at the time,

Dio did get Daisley for a Scandinavian tour when Tracy G was in the band.
Dio asked him to join permanently, but Bob was happy with Gary Moore, no drama, no backstabbing, no stealing.

[BernieTaupson]

The only people that give a shit about Jason Becker are guitar players. Terrible choice for Roth’s band.

[Fletch]

Full show just turned up a few weeks ago on a new-ish channel and there is enough there to keep your average Sludger occupied til the end of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjagyWuyW4

Haven't scrolled down yet to see if there is a Cinderella set

He honestly looked like he was having a blast

[Anthrax442]

The only people that give a shit about Jason Becker are guitar players. Terrible choice for Roth’s band.

I'm not remotely a guitar player, and I give a shit. I don't think you understand just how bad Holmes was on the Ozzmosis tour.

[Mister Freeze]

Full show just turned up a few weeks ago on a new-ish channel and there is enough there to keep your average Sludger occupied til the end of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjagyWuyW4

Security not messing around at this Gn'R show:
https://youtu.be/6P4S2XGxZ6U?si=vn-QzhqFe2GQ4V9x&t=3585

[Bono Nettencourt]

Full show just turned up a few weeks ago on a new-ish channel and there is enough there to keep your average Sludger occupied til the end of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjagyWuyW4

Haven't scrolled down yet to see if there is a Cinderella set

He honestly looked like he was having a blast

He gave it his all, but compared to the EEAS and Skyscraper tours it felt low-budget... look at the upper deck, there's nobody up there but a few on either side on the 2nd level, and the 3rd level is totally empty. Agree that he needed Becker for some star power.

[str]

DLR may have suffered the way Kiss or any other veteran act suffered,
getting alot of play whether with poppy Crazy Nights/Just Like Paradise stuff or not, they could only go so far if they werent younger/prettier,
they might go gold or platinum (like "Turbo", "Ultimate Sin")
but not multi-platinum like Skid Row/Poison, etc.,
It's not ALWAYS the case but if they had any recent success it SEEMED more likely that they would get old fast,
I can think of 3 veteran bands who did NOT have recent success who all made comebacks (in fact, Bad Company, Styx, and AC/DC all made returns to the top 40 on the same week) so that was odd,
but even though they were old it could be that nobody was sick of them yet,
it was almost like they were new until the kids finally noticed how old they were ,
When Steelheart hit with "I'll Never Let You Go" ,
I thought they suffered right away like an older band would suffer,
It wasn't a typical ballad hit,
they went platinum and with a top 30 single
but not triple platinum and top 10 (like say Skid Row,
both bands had a screamer for a singer but Skid Row were younger, especially Sebastian) ,
and "She's Gone" was more Survivor sounding which was out of fashion by then and that style was never for young fans.

Another thing I noticed in the late 80s/early 90s is that when bands that started out looking or sounding pretty decided to mature they would get bluesier and that seemed to alienate the young fans if not all fans ,
the first example I remember is Ratt's "Way Cool Jr",
The video was definitely getting decent play and everybody in my school (age 12 or 13) was talking about it but all of us were thrown off by how different and not as hard rock or pop metal it was ,
but when "I Want A Woman" came out next ,
again, everybody talked about it,.
though this time they liked it better since it was prettier sounding, more pop metal and everything,
but it kinda seemed like everyone tuned out with Ratt all because of the first video, because they LOVED the second one,
Cinderella also suffered because of this (in my school of 12 and 13 year olds) ,
No matter how often "Shelter Me" or "Way Cool Jr" were played I think it just constantly reminded people of how they didn't like the new stuff from these bands ,
Alot of songs got played where it seems like they weren't good at all and they were just getting a big push from their record label and that is the reason they are getting so much play and it just made us 12/13 year olds even more sick of them
("Shattered Dreams" by Johnny Hates Jazz,
NOBODY liked that song yet it was all over the place,
same with Fine Young Cannibals)
I'm not sure DLR suffered the same way because he always incorporated blues in his music
though most of his biggest singles/videos were "California Girls", "Yankee Rose", "Going Crazy", "Just Like Paradise", "Stand Up" and even "A Lil Ain't Enough" got off to a pretty good start getting alot of airplay not just on rock radio but on a big top 40 station(Z100) in the NY market (which is local for me),
All those songs are either hard rock or very commercial sounding, not bluesy, "Just A Gigalo" is the only song I can think of that is not hard rock but was a big hit for him,
unless you count songs like "Tobacco Road" and a bunch of other songs that only got rock radio play, many of those were bluesier rock ,
"Sensible Shoes" and "Tell The Truth" got a ton of rock radio play but I don't remember rock radio ever translating to sales for anyone no matter when,
and most songs on rock radio are old classic rock songs like "Slow Ride" or whatever and then some new songs,
The catalog albums of classic rock bands didn't sell millions so why would anything new (and only getting played on that format) do any better,
In the 90s Brother Cane and Cry Of Love had #1 rock radio singles but sold nothing, maybe tens of thousands like a budget greatest hits compilation by a classic rock band ,
and those 2 bands didn't even stay together ,
I think it had to be young or new,
or poppy or pretty,
Cinderella got away with alot of blues influence on 'Night Songs' but they looked pretty glam and opening for Bon Jovi didn't hurt either,
Extreme (like Mr. Big) , once people realized they weren't young or pretty, their pop radio popularity didn't last long ,
Mr. Big had a fairly successful cover of "Wild World" off the next album 'Bump Ahead' which I STILL hear on the radio( but like back then, only on that adult contemporary or ADULT top 40 radio) , the song reached #27 on the Billboard Hot 100 but the album only reached #82 ,
Extreme really took a nosedive on the Hot 100,
#1 and #4 with "More Than Words" and "Hole Hearted",
then on the next album ,
#95 and #96 with "Rest In Piece" and "Stop The World" ,
Keep in mind, "Rest In Piece" hit #1 on ROCK radio.

[BernieTaupson]

The only people that give a shit about Jason Becker are guitar players. Terrible choice for Roth’s band.

I'm not remotely a guitar player, and I give a shit. I don't think you understand just how bad Holmes was on the Ozzmosis tour.

The fuck has Joe Holmes got to do with a comment about Becker?

But since you brought it up - I’ve only seen clips of Holmes with Ozzy. He looked like a bum but seemed to play okay, and I remember he had a strat without a whammy. What was the issue with his playing?

[BernieTaupson]

https://youtu.be/a_wSJN317yk?si=I6_5nQ43gR1ue2SZ

Sounds okay here. Every YouTube comment is saying how incredible he is and how he’s the only guy fit to play Randy’s stuff etc.

[Bono Nettencourt]

There was a hype factor at play too - all the guitar mags pumped up Becker as Dave's new gunslinger, then Joe Holmes was like, "who?" To this day I couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

[Anthrax442]

I completely misread that, so the confusion is on me. The point I was trying to make was that it made a big difference who Roth chose to play that role, and that him choosing Holmes as a replacement for Becker (someone that actually had talent and could play the Van Halen/Vai parts well) was a bad idea.

Not sure why you dismiss Becker, his playing before the illness was fantastic, if a bit shreddy. It's too bad we didn't get to see him actually play in the band long term, to see if he could have toned the shred down.

As far as Holmes goes, maybe I just saw him have his worst show ever, but I basically saw him play with Ozzy and either stand or kneel in front of his amp for what seemed like almost the entire show, all the while Ozzy was out front like his usual madman self. I guess I'm glad I saw him before Sharon really started to fuck him up with medication, but man, I would have rather seen Zakk out there.

[BernieTaupson]

I watched a fair deal of that 95 Ozzy show I posted. He played the RR stuff better than Zakk. BATM … the notes were right but it almost sounded too clean.

[FreddyFender]

https://youtu.be/a_wSJN317yk?si=I6_5nQ43gR1ue2SZ

Sounds okay here. Every YouTube comment is saying how incredible he is and how he’s the only guy fit to play Randy’s stuff etc.

This sounds pretty bad to my ears. Sloppy. Picking some areas, legato in others. Kinda all over the place. Tuning of that strat is questionable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2q8a5uy1lQ

A year earlier. Zakk plays it way cleaner despite moving around like an idiot.

[BernieTaupson]

To be fair, Zakk’s tone is so distorted he could stop playing for a few bars and no one would notice.

[El Vampiro Blanco]

Jake E Lee is still my favorite non Randy guitar player.
He played both his own stuff and the Randy material phenomenally and was the ultimate showman.
Even when you watch his Red Dragon Cartel live vids on YouTube there is still some magic there in how he owns that guitar on stage.....

[Tommy2Tone84]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Dave started using horns on his first solo ep. Dave has synth all over Skyscraper. He has horns and synth all over ALAE. He did a duet with with Travis Tritt on the next album

Guns N Roses female backup singers played some horns.

Why are you giving Cinderella such sh*t for going outside the box.