David Lee Roth, Cinderella, Extreme Tour 1991

[Tommy2Tone84]

Full show just turned up a few weeks ago on a new-ish channel and there is enough there to keep your average Sludger occupied til the end of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHjagyWuyW4

Haven't scrolled down yet to see if there is a Cinderella set

He honestly looked like he was having a blast

He gave it his all, but compared to the EEAS and Skyscraper tours it felt low-budget... look at the upper deck, there's nobody up there but a few on either side on the 2nd level, and the 3rd level is totally empty. Agree that he needed Becker for some star power.

As much as I liked Jason’s playing I doubt he would’ve filled arenas for him. Rowan couldn’t save Dio’s sinking career. But Jason would’ve been better than Joe. Dave was stupid to ever let Billy and Steve go. It was likely inevitable but as much as people diss on Mr Big, I prefer them to Dave’s solo albums at the time.

What is frustrating about this tour is, Cinderella and Extreme should’ve been able to sell arenas out with just the two of them. Cinderella was platinum and Extreme were the next hot and happening thing for the next five seconds at the time. The fact that they were playing to shrinking gate receipts proves how fickle our generation was.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Cinderella weren't the Stones, and imitating them killed their career.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Cinderella weren't the Stones, and imitating them killed their career.

Neither are Roth and GNR. But everyone still tickles their testicles

[LurkingAtWork]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Dave started using horns on his first solo ep. Dave has synth all over Skyscraper. He has horns and synth all over ALAE. He did a duet with with Travis Tritt on the next album

Guns N Roses female backup singers played some horns.

Why are you giving Cinderella such sh*t for going outside the box.

Wait, you're using those examples a things that DON'T suck?

[ijwthstd]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Cinderella weren't the Stones, and imitating them killed their career.

Nothing wrong with saxophone. But it was Cinderella's image that both gaveth and took it away. Good music but the wave they rode in on was gonna crash to shore pretty quick. They looked silly and it really narrowed their reach.

[Bono Nettencourt]

https://youtube.com/shorts/6YDTdb8xzCA? ... qcuCwqe74Y

[Mato]

“ Tuff had a hit single on MTV at the time”… I guess by 91 standards a 2-3 day run on Dial MTV Is “success “

I will roll the dice and say Salty Dog, Kathmandu, Sweet FA and Trouble Tribe were bigger.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Night Songs is such an amazing album. It's so ridiculous that a few years later they've a got a fuckin saxophone player on stage. That band really took a massive nosedive.

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Dave started using horns on his first solo ep. Dave has synth all over Skyscraper. He has horns and synth all over ALAE. He did a duet with with Travis Tritt on the next album

Guns N Roses female backup singers played some horns.

Why are you giving Cinderella such sh*t for going outside the box.

Wait, you're using those examples a things that DON'T suck?

No, I’m listing them as hypocrisy on fans part. I thought GNR using the girls was much more low rent Stones than Cinderella using a sax player.

Come to think of it, I think Cinderella had backup singers too on that tour. The Black Crowes started using backup vocalists in 1992. They didn’t get shit for it

I’ve never been able to figure out hair metal and rock fans. We supported LCW but not HBS

[Tommy2Tone84]

What’s wrong with the saxophone? The Stones started using sax and horn players back in the 70s.

Cinderella weren't the Stones, and imitating them killed their career.

Nothing wrong with saxophone. But it was Cinderella's image that both gaveth and took it away. Good music but the wave they rode in on was gonna crash to shore pretty quick. They looked silly and it really narrowed their reach.

By 1991? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Poison were multi platinum and selling out arenas in 1991 and they
still looked silly.

What was silly or more silly than the goofy shit Axl and Sebastian were wearing in 91 and 92? Axl dressed up in all kinds of goofy shit at the time.

Slash can wear a top hat as a low rent Dick Wagner circa 1975 but the Cinderella guys can’t wear cowboy hats?

[ijwthstd]

Cinderella weren't the Stones, and imitating them killed their career.

Nothing wrong with saxophone. But it was Cinderella's image that both gaveth and took it away. Good music but the wave they rode in on was gonna crash to shore pretty quick. They looked silly and it really narrowed their reach.

By 1991? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Poison were multi platinum and selling out arenas in 1991 and they
still looked silly.

What was silly or more silly than the goofy shit Axl and Sebastian were wearing in 91 and 92? Axl dressed up in all kinds of goofy shit at the time.

Slash can wear a top hat as a low rent Dick Wagner circa 1975 but the Cinderella guys can’t wear cowboy hats?

Poison and Sebastian crashed not long after and Poison were much bigger than Cinderella but in the same position by 1993. Axl and Slash have one of the biggest selling albums of all time so it doesn't matter. Poison and Cinderella and hundreds of lesser bands or at least their industry representatives were selling a look that defined the bands more than the music. It's why it's now referred to as HAIR metal. The kind of music Cinderella was playing by Heartbreak Station was actually better suited for the 1990's (think Black Crowes) but they were defined by an image that was largely obsolete.

Anything else I will defer to you as I haven't even heard the album or even thought much about them since 1991-ish, obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.

[pieceofme]

Nothing wrong with saxophone. But it was Cinderella's image that both gaveth and took it away. Good music but the wave they rode in on was gonna crash to shore pretty quick. They looked silly and it really narrowed their reach.

By 1991? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Poison were multi platinum and selling out arenas in 1991 and they
still looked silly.

What was silly or more silly than the goofy shit Axl and Sebastian were wearing in 91 and 92? Axl dressed up in all kinds of goofy shit at the time.

Slash can wear a top hat as a low rent Dick Wagner circa 1975 but the Cinderella guys can’t wear cowboy hats?

Poison and Sebastian crashed not long after and Poison were much bigger than Cinderella but in the same position by 1993. Axl and Slash have one of the biggest selling albums of all time so it doesn't matter. Poison and Cinderella and hundreds of lesser bands or at least their industry representatives were selling a look that defined the bands more than the music. It's why it's now referred to as HAIR metal. The kind of music Cinderella was playing by Heartbreak Station was actually better suited for the 1990's (think Black Crowes) but they were defined by an image that was largely obsolete.

Anything else I will defer to you as I haven't even heard the album or even thought much about them since 1991-ish, obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.

[Bono Nettencourt]

The difference between GnR and the Stones is that GnR was dabbling in Stonesy-sounding stuff, but Cinderella was trying to remake their whole image and sound (see also their little bro Dizzy Dean with Black Eyed Susan), and, as judged by the poor album and ticket sales, the public wasn't buying.

[Mister Freeze]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Yep. And Keifer losing his voice and hurting his throat after didn't help either. By 94, nobody cared anymore.

[pieceofme]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

In all fairness its mostly Tommy2Tone84 who goes off in a tangent in these threads.

[ijwthstd]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

In all fairness its mostly Tommy2Tone84 who goes off in a tangent in these threads.

You didn't buy tickets to this tour? You are a criminal.

[HueyRamone]

Cinderella also scuttled their European tour at that time, because they were such pussies that they were worried about being in western Europe with the iraq war going on thousands of miles away in the middle east.

https://youtu.be/r5f_rvBtoCs?t=1056

[pieceofme]

Cinderella also scuttled their European tour at that time, because they were such pussies that they were worried about being in western Europe with the iraq war going on thousands of miles away in the middle east.

https://youtu.be/r5f_rvBtoCs?t=1056

They should have thought of a better excuse like too much snow on the roofs.

That is really lame they cancelled due to a war happening elsewhere.

[FreddyFender]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

Bingo. Had the same problem Izzy’s album had: who wants to hear a Black Crowes wannabe album with a bunch of completely forgettable songs when the Black Crowes were out there with smash hit tunes like “Hard To Handle” and “She Talks To Angels”.

Hell, Dave was trying to do the same with that “Black Velvet” ripoff on ALAE. Trying to bridge the gap to a new era. It was a bridge too far.

[Tommy2Tone84]

The difference between GnR and the Stones is that GnR was dabbling in Stonesy-sounding stuff, but Cinderella was trying to remake their whole image and sound (see also their little bro Dizzy Dean with Black Eyed Susan), and, as judged by the poor album and ticket sales, the public wasn't buying.

Remember when GNR did that dumb reggae part during Knocking On Heaven’s Door?


They made a bigger change between Night Songs and LCW than they did between LCW and Heartbreak Station

I blame David Lee Roth’s presence on that tour for the drag in sales. No one wanted to see him. There was also no clear headliner from what I remember reading. Sometimes Cinderella would close while DLR would other times. He also made the tour seem long in the tooth even though Extreme was selling albums like they were drug dealers at the time


They should’ve got a band with a a real buzz at the time and who was selling well. Steelheart would’ve been the perfect choice. They, along with Extreme would have made the tour seem fresh and exciting. They went gold that year



Heartbreak Station was platinum by February 1991. It was released December 1990. It was platinum two months after its release

Roth was a poor and very problematic choice on Mazer’s part. Roth had become a liability by 1991. He had burned through Van Halen and his solo band in five short years. He was losing his hair and appeared difficult to work with and work for. His album wasn’t that good either.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Nothing wrong with saxophone. But it was Cinderella's image that both gaveth and took it away. Good music but the wave they rode in on was gonna crash to shore pretty quick. They looked silly and it really narrowed their reach.

By 1991? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Poison were multi platinum and selling out arenas in 1991 and they
still looked silly.

What was silly or more silly than the goofy shit Axl and Sebastian were wearing in 91 and 92? Axl dressed up in all kinds of goofy shit at the time.

Slash can wear a top hat as a low rent Dick Wagner circa 1975 but the Cinderella guys can’t wear cowboy hats?

Poison and Sebastian crashed not long after and Poison were much bigger than Cinderella but in the same position by 1993. Axl and Slash have one of the biggest selling albums of all time so it doesn't matter. Poison and Cinderella and hundreds of lesser bands or at least their industry representatives were selling a look that defined the bands more than the music. It's why it's now referred to as HAIR metal. The kind of music Cinderella was playing by Heartbreak Station was actually better suited for the 1990's (think Black Crowes) but they were defined by an image that was largely obsolete.

Anything else I will defer to you as I haven't even heard the album or even thought much about them since 1991-ish, obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.

By 93, Grunge had happened and they had lost CC. I personally loved and welcomed the change after CC’s coked out pink clown hair incident at the MTV Music Awards in 91. That said, given the musical climate and outward, unabashed hostility from some at MTV, Poison faired pretty well in 1993.

I would’ve respected your answer hadvyou thought Heartbreak Station sucked. I wouldn’t have understood it given it’s an extension and an outgrowth of what they did on LCW. But harping on their image and bringing in a sax player is a lazy criticism.

[Love_Industry]

Cinderella also scuttled their European tour at that time, because they were such pussies that they were worried about being in western Europe with the iraq war going on thousands of miles away in the middle east.

Probably a bad excuse as Cinderella weren't very big in Europe. I vaguely remember the tour the video mentions - wasn't it Slaughter opening - and it wasn't booked in the biggest arenas of the time. It may have been mostly sold out, but the level was Saxon/Magnum or something, not DLR/Priest/Maiden.

Cinderella were also supposed to tour Europe for LCW - as openers for Priest on RID but ended up not playing because their album wasn't out yet. Just read the new Kerry King interview in Rolling Stone and he says Slayer ended up opening the rest of the RID US tour as Cinderella got kicked off because the tour was bombing when they opened. I sense a pattern here. Cinderella sold lots of albums but were they a successful touring band?

[Tommy2Tone84]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

Two of the three singles charted. Cinderella, even at their LCW height struggled to crack the top ten singles chart.
The highest career single, Don’t Know What You Got only reached was #12.

As I pointed out before, they also had Extreme as the opening act. Those guys had two singles chart in the top five that year. A #1 and #4. That should’ve been enough to pick up some slack or the majority of slack

I’m still going to blame Roth’s presence on the tour. If Cinderella wanted to be a legit headliner for a second tour in a row they needed some fresh blood. They had that with Extreme but given that three act bills had become the norm by then they
needed a new, happening band to fill that first slot. Much like they did on the LCW tour with bands like Winger, Bulletboys and Tangier. They needed a band like Steelheart who were all over MTV at the time.

They later got rid of Roth and had lost Extreme then added Lynch Mob and Nelson. That’s a much better bill. Lynch was long in the tooth but still much cooler than Dave. Dave killed test tour. Nelson was everywhere that year too but I think the only way the tour could have gained crossover appeal would have been to have Extreme and Nelson on the bill. But all the little teenage girls probably would’ve left after Nelson and Extreme.

[Tommy2Tone84]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

Two of the three singles charted. Cinderella, even at their LCW height struggled to crack the top ten singles chart.
The highest career single, Don’t Know What You Got only reached was #12.

As I pointed out before, they also had Extreme as the opening act. Those guys had two singles chart in the top five that year. A #1 and #4. That should’ve been enough to pick up some slack or the majority of slack

I’m still going to blame Roth’s presence on the tour. If Cinderella wanted to be a legit headliner for a second tour in a row they needed some fresh blood. They had that with Extreme but given that three act bills had become the norm by then they
needed a new, happening band to fill that first slot. Much like they did on the LCW tour with bands like Winger, Bulletboys and Tangier. They needed a band like Steelheart who were all over MTV at the time.

They later got rid of Roth and had lost Extreme then added Lynch Mob and Nelson. That’s a much better bill. Lynch was long in the tooth but still much cooler than Dave. Dave killed test tour. Nelson was everywhere that year too but I think the only way the tour could have gained crossover appeal would have been to have Extreme and Nelson on the bill. But all the little teenage girls probably would’ve left after Nelson and Extreme.

1991 was still a good year as grunge was really a year and a half off from really dominating and creating a backlash. But the charts were filled with pop acts that year. C+C Music Factory, Prince, Mariah Carey. Bryan Adams, Roxette, Nelson. There wasn’t a lot of rock acts dominating the charts that year

[FreddyFender]

Two of the three singles charted. Cinderella, even at their LCW height struggled to crack the top ten singles chart.
The highest career single, Don’t Know What You Got only reached was #12.

Night Songs hit #3
Long Cold Winter #10
Heartbreak Station #19. One single that hit the top 40, and barely (#36). Sold a third of what the prior 2 albums did.

The decline is obvious.

and Roth's first 3 albums charted #4, #6, and then #18 with ALAE.

Two acts on the way out - the perfect pairing for a tour that was destined to bomb.

[ijwthstd]

I don't know why this is hard to grasp. The argument on page 4 is the same as the argument on page 1...

Cinderella had a lukewarm album. Their change in style wasn't a bad move (and they got some critical acclaim at the time), but none of the singles caught on.

So they were still stuck trying to shake off their glam image from previous albums. They had one chance to bridge eras and it didn't happen.

Two of the three singles charted. Cinderella, even at their LCW height struggled to crack the top ten singles chart.
The highest career single, Don’t Know What You Got only reached was #12.

As I pointed out before, they also had Extreme as the opening act. Those guys had two singles chart in the top five that year. A #1 and #4. That should’ve been enough to pick up some slack or the majority of slack

I’m still going to blame Roth’s presence on the tour. If Cinderella wanted to be a legit headliner for a second tour in a row they needed some fresh blood. They had that with Extreme but given that three act bills had become the norm by then they
needed a new, happening band to fill that first slot. Much like they did on the LCW tour with bands like Winger, Bulletboys and Tangier. They needed a band like Steelheart who were all over MTV at the time.

They later got rid of Roth and had lost Extreme then added Lynch Mob and Nelson. That’s a much better bill. Lynch was long in the tooth but still much cooler than Dave. Dave killed test tour. Nelson was everywhere that year too but I think the only way the tour could have gained crossover appeal would have been to have Extreme and Nelson on the bill. But all the little teenage girls probably would’ve left after Nelson and Extreme.

This tour preceded the Roth tour but was plagued by poor ticket sales which is why the DLR and Cinderella tours were consolidated. Probably before Nelson blew up but I was barely paying attention to them so not sure on the timeline. They did a week or two or club shows after the Roth tour was canceled, they played the Whisky A Go GO here and it was only announced a few days in advance with a listing. It might have been promoted on KNAC but I couldn't get it where I was living.

[ijwthstd]

Cinderella also scuttled their European tour at that time, because they were such pussies that they were worried about being in western Europe with the iraq war going on thousands of miles away in the middle east.

Probably a bad excuse as Cinderella weren't very big in Europe. I vaguely remember the tour the video mentions - wasn't it Slaughter opening - and it wasn't booked in the biggest arenas of the time. It may have been mostly sold out, but the level was Saxon/Magnum or something, not DLR/Priest/Maiden.

Cinderella were also supposed to tour Europe for LCW - as openers for Priest on RID but ended up not playing because their album wasn't out yet. Just read the new Kerry King interview in Rolling Stone and he says Slayer ended up opening the rest of the RID US tour as Cinderella got kicked off because the tour was bombing when they opened. I sense a pattern here. Cinderella sold lots of albums but were they a successful touring band?

Cinderella jumped to the AC/DC tour which was massively successful with most shows selling out. I saw them at the tour finale Forum which was sold out, the Forum was mostly full and from what I remember Cinderella played a 55 minute set and went over really well. Judas Priest had a weak album and was touring in a very crowded climate. Slayer probably didn't cost as much and already had a strong west coast following and by that time it was fall, the Def Leppard, Aerosmith/GNR and Iron Maiden tours were largely over.

1988 and 1991 both had very saturated markets for hard rock and metal except in 1991 there was both a recession, a jump in ticket prices (when I was scraping up allowence money etc, a $5 difference was felt) as well as changing musical climate and bands touring underperforming albums. It wasn't just grunge/alternative vs metal in 1991 but stuff like Steve Winwood and Yes were bankrupting promoters and these were the two acts where they first tried to introduce "Golden Circle" seating with $35-40 tickets. Sharon, ever savvy, put the first leg of Ozzy's farewell tour in theatres.

[ijwthstd]

By 1991? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Poison were multi platinum and selling out arenas in 1991 and they
still looked silly.

What was silly or more silly than the goofy shit Axl and Sebastian were wearing in 91 and 92? Axl dressed up in all kinds of goofy shit at the time.

Slash can wear a top hat as a low rent Dick Wagner circa 1975 but the Cinderella guys can’t wear cowboy hats?

Poison and Sebastian crashed not long after and Poison were much bigger than Cinderella but in the same position by 1993. Axl and Slash have one of the biggest selling albums of all time so it doesn't matter. Poison and Cinderella and hundreds of lesser bands or at least their industry representatives were selling a look that defined the bands more than the music. It's why it's now referred to as HAIR metal. The kind of music Cinderella was playing by Heartbreak Station was actually better suited for the 1990's (think Black Crowes) but they were defined by an image that was largely obsolete.

Anything else I will defer to you as I haven't even heard the album or even thought much about them since 1991-ish, obviously you take this way too seriously and were deeply affected by what transpired in the early 1990's and hopefully you are discussing these issues with a therapist in addition to other fans on music message boards.

By 93, Grunge had happened and they had lost CC. I personally loved and welcomed the change after CC’s coked out pink clown hair incident at the MTV Music Awards in 91. That said, given the musical climate and outward, unabashed hostility from some at MTV, Poison faired pretty well in 1993.

I would’ve respected your answer hadvyou thought Heartbreak Station sucked. I wouldn’t have understood it given it’s an extension and an outgrowth of what they did on LCW. But harping on their image and bringing in a sax player is a lazy criticism.

Nothing wrong with a sax player and I never bought the album but really liked the title track. It's their image why a lot of people who enjoy blues based rock such as myself would never have given them a chance. Hence my statement their image both giveth (1986) and taketh away. But hey bands gotta take their opportunities where they can get them and what got them their foot in the door also had it slammed in their face a few years later.

Poison - wasn't really a fan back in the day either way. My appreciation now is more due to my life as a professional concert goer. They have enough toe-tappers to fill out a short set.

[Bono Nettencourt]

The difference between GnR and the Stones is that GnR was dabbling in Stonesy-sounding stuff, but Cinderella was trying to remake their whole image and sound (see also their little bro Dizzy Dean with Black Eyed Susan), and, as judged by the poor album and ticket sales, the public wasn't buying.

Remember when GNR did that dumb reggae part during Knocking On Heaven’s Door?


They made a bigger change between Night Songs and LCW than they did between LCW and Heartbreak Station

I blame David Lee Roth’s presence on that tour for the drag in sales. No one wanted to see him. There was also no clear headliner from what I remember reading. Sometimes Cinderella would close while DLR would other times.

Now you're just making shit up Kiefer. DLR was always the headliner.

[ParaDime77]

Yep. And Keifer losing his voice and hurting his throat after didn't help either. By 94, nobody cared anymore.

It’s definitely didn’t happen in 91. Perhaps in the mid to late 90s he blew his voice to shrapnel.