Metal Sludge Gossip Board

The Dolly Parton CD my wife won't stop playing made me think....

Rarely have Kiss collaborated on music or jammed live with anyone right? Do they feel awkward or are they inferior musicians?

Do they only know how to play Dr Love and Strutter?

A pick playing bassist wouldnt play with fingers in videos if he didn’t feel inferior.

A lip synching idiot wouldnt caterwaul into the mic between songs if he didn’t feel inferior.


In that KISS alive forever book, some band in the earlyish days let kiss stay with them and jammed with them. They were amazed Paul couldn’t do anything but play his own songs

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:47 pm A pick playing bassist wouldnt play with fingers in videos if he didn’t feel inferior.

A lip synching idiot wouldn't caterwaul into the mic between songs if he didn’t feel inferior.

A truly confident person wouldn't make that KISSY face nearly every time he sees a camera if he didn't feel inferior.
Stuff like that is intended to compensate for lack of musical ability and self image problems.

I'm sure this question keeps them up at night as they sleep on a pillow stuffed with cash in their mansions.

Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:06 pm I like all the at-home guitar nerds who think they're better musicians than KISS because they practice scales really, really hard on their couch.

Well, they probably are. But I don't think anyone other than those people shining a light on it, give a shit. Least of all the guys in KISS.

Question should be "Do KISS feel inferior to musicians"

Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:06 pm I like all the at-home guitar nerds who think they're better musicians than KISS because they practice scales really, really hard on their couch.

I like the players and techs here who don't pretend KISS are great players.
Many of them make/made their livings in the music industry, and know shit from Shinola.

I would say Gene is a better bassist than most 80s Rock bassists. It doesn't matter as much for the style they play. They aren't Dream Theater.

They wanted to be rockstars not musicians.

Gene has had some tasty baselines over the years.

PETER > Thinks he is better than he is.

ACE > Doesn't understand why he is so influencial

PAUL > Knows he is inferior and is butthurt

GENE > A really good player who doesn't give 2 fucks. what anyone else thinks.

Jason Jennifer Leigh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:14 am They wanted to be rockstars not musicians.

Feeling inferior requires self-awareness.

Only Gene seems to have any of that, he’s a decent musician, I’m guessing he doesn’t collaborate because he admits money is his only motivation and the price has never been right for him to bother and he admittedly doesn’t have friends.

If they didn’t , there would have been no need for ghost players on most of their albums.

mrspeedgene wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:58 am PETER > Thinks he is better than he is.

ACE > Doesn't understand why he is so influencial

PAUL > Knows he is inferior and is butthurt

GENE > A really good player who doesn't give 2 fucks. what anyone else thinks.

Eddie Kramer said that Ace was the best musician in the band.

Dyslexicheart wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:54 am

mrspeedgene wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:58 am PETER > Thinks he is better than he is.

ACE > Doesn't understand why he is so influencial

PAUL > Knows he is inferior and is butthurt

GENE > A really good player who doesn't give 2 fucks. what anyone else thinks.

Eddie Kramer said that Ace was the best musician in the band.

Kramer produced their early demo and some mid '70s albums. At that time it may have been true but he peaked on his 78 solo album.
Paul was inferior on guitar when they started out, but improved and he was also the best songwriter in the band and, in the 80s and 90s, best singer. And he knew it.

The descriptions of Gene and Peter are spot on. Gene only cares when his career or finances are hurting, and Peter probably still doesn't understand why Let Me Rock You didn't go multi platinum.

There are some rumblings about Gene solo shows in Europe in July by the way, I saw two proposed dates today.

Kiss wanted to be famous, millionaire rockstar’s getting laid every night. That was the main goal from the start.

They did that and then some.

They win.

Why would they care? There's no money in it.

Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:06 pm I like all the at-home guitar nerds who think they're better musicians than KISS because they practice scales really, really hard on their couch.

It's not like their music is overly complicated. Based on what they've recorded, it isn't really a stretch to think there are thousands of hobbyists that are better/think they're better.

But of course, in popular music that doesn't mean a thing. It's what you are able to do with that ability that matters.

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:46 am

Dyslexicheart wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:54 am

mrspeedgene wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:58 am PETER > Thinks he is better than he is.

ACE > Doesn't understand why he is so influencial

PAUL > Knows he is inferior and is butthurt

GENE > A really good player who doesn't give 2 fucks. what anyone else thinks.

Eddie Kramer said that Ace was the best musician in the band.

Kramer produced their early demo and some mid '70s albums. At that time it may have been true but he peaked on his 78 solo album.

Paul was inferior on guitar when they started out, but improved and he was also the best songwriter in the band and, in the 80s and 90s, best singer. And he knew it.

Kramer produced Alive!, Rock 'n' Roll Over, Love Gun, Alive II and the '78 Ace albums, so he knew what he was talking about - that's prime Kiss. I'm not interested in the Simmons/Stanley band from '79 onwards - it's not real Kiss IMO.

I don't believe anyone in KISS even think about it. But if they do, they probably think very highly of themselves. After their long and lucrative career, I can't see them being bummed out they weren't in Steely Dan. People talk about superior musicianship or who is better. To me it comes down to winners and losers. Some rando GIT grad can play circles around Ace Frehley. But nobody knows the GIT guy. Nobody buys his music. Nobody pays to see him play. There are no posters of GIT guy on anyone's wall. Yeah I know a few have gotten famous, but it is a tiny percentage of GIT grads. I would rather have Stanley's career than that of future guitar teacher / Guitar Center salesman GIT grad.

Most rock people are not virtuosos on their instruments. Look at Motley, GNR, ACDC, etc. However, unlike the guitar nerd who can solo in the Byzantine Scale, they are able to write songs people want to listen to. Songs people will buy. Which means people also will buy a ticket to see them play the song. Byzantine Scale guy can't do that. You can be the greatest guitar player of all time, but if you can't produce a song that people find interesting, what good is it? KISS are winners. Winners in life. Winners in the music business. There is no denying that.

The other day on here someone asked for opinions of Queensryche guitarist Michael Wilton. One responder bashed Wilton as only playing pentatonic scales and basically called him a shit guitarist. LOL. Wilton has had a long, Grammy nominated career and has sold 20 million albums. Meanwhile what has the Wilton detractor done with his life? Has he sold 1 album? It is ridiculous. Wilton is also a winner.

Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:06 pm I like all the at-home guitar nerds who think they're better musicians than KISS because they practice scales really, really hard on their couch.

Well done