Metal Sludge Gossip Board

So the story I always heard was John Sykes pretty much wrote that big Whitesnake album and was unexpectedly fired by Coverdale. Which is nuts because David typically only had his pick of Old English dudes for bandmates. But it's not nuts because he ends up touring with Vivian Campbell Adrian Vandenberg Rudy sarzo and Tommy aldridge.

It's not like Whitesnake were the next big thing. Sure they had a decent album slide it in. But that huge self-titled album doesn't hold up well except for maybe Still of the Night. im guessing Geffen must have decided they were going to make this album huge before it came out and assembled a band of all stars. I just think it's weird that even after Vivian left he didn't bring John Sykes in. I wonder what's up with that

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:00 am
That lineup got fired because they recorded fhe music and before he could do the vocals DC had to have a throat operation and that went on for months. Sykes talked to the record label about bringing in a new singer. Coverdale heard about it and went absolutely ballistic and fired them all.

According to Neil Murray, nobody was fired. Sykes left after a big argument with Coverdale during mixing and he thinks it was a bad mistake.
He and Aynsley Dunbar weren't technically fired either, they just weren't getting paid anymore which sounds like being fired, or a contract violation.
Dunbar left when the money stopped coming but Murray did some more recording after that before he bolted.

https://soundslikenew.blogspot.com/2011 ... snake.html

Neil went on to play with Black Sabbath, Brian May and (studio project) Phenomena, but not sure how much that paid.
I think he made more money doing the Queen musical We Will Rock You for a decade or more in London.

Kalodner.

Before John joined Whitesnake, he was playing guitar in Phil Lynott's unsigned post-Thin Lizzy project (Grand Slam). Lynott was a washed-up junkie by the early 80s, and I'm sure Sykes was making very little playing "Whiskey in the Jar" in clubs and dive bars with Phil's new band. He had only been in Thin Lizzy a year before they split - he wasn't sitting on a bunch of cash.

Meanwhile Kalodner had taken Coverdale on as a pet project and had Geffen's backing to try and turn WS in a big act in the US. They could afford to pay Sykes. John was in his early twenties and was immediately opening for Dio and QR in the USA. They invested in Coverdale and spent the money to hire a new band and re-record/remix "Slide It In" - that paid off into modest success in the US, and the rest is history.

Edit, from Sykes:

"I had a phone call, and it was Coverdale or his people or something. They called me up and asked me if I wanted to join, and I said, “No, I don’t. I’m not interested. I’m staying with Phil.” They called up again and said, “Just come over.” I think it was Munich we went to then? They were recording the 1984 "Slide It In" album or something. I thought I’d go over and take a look. I think they called me two or three times. I went over and met David and Mel Galley, who was a really nice guy. I hung out with them for a couple of days and jammed on a couple of songs. When I came back to London, they rang out for me, offered me the job, and I said: “No, I don’t want to do it.” Then they basically said, “How much money would it take for you to do it?”, so I threw a number out there that I thought I would never get, and they said, “Okay”, and gave me the money."

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:59 am Sykes never played live with Grand Slam or even did any demos with them. The post-Lizzy idea was to be Sykes Phil and Downey and a few others but then Sykes got the WS gig. I don’t think Phil ever got over that, he got a bunch of losers in to do Grand Slam and it never went anywhere. As you say he was a druggie and couldn’t get a record deal no one wanted to risk it.

Okay, he was making even less then.

Ah this is what I was referring to: not yet called Grand Slam, just Phil Lynott solo with Sykes, post-Lizzy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_IbTCskTaE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_in_Sweden_1983

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:59 am Sykes never played live with Grand Slam or even did any demos with them. The post-Lizzy idea was to be Sykes Phil and Downey and a few others but then Sykes got the WS gig. I don’t think Phil ever got over that, he got a bunch of losers in to do Grand Slam and it never went anywhere. As you say he was a druggie and couldn’t get a record deal no one wanted to risk it.

There's a clip where Motorhead has Phil come up on stage and play with them, and I know it was because Lemmy and Phil were great friends, but the whole concept was ridiculous, because no one is going to play bass while Lemmy's up there.

However, they still sent Phil out there with his bass, and it clearly wasn't plugged in. It was pretty fucking sad, and actually might be one of the last times Phil was on stage, not sure how many gigs Grand Slam actually played.

I know Lemmy said that he never messed with Heroin, and the story goes that a long time ago, one girl that Lemmy actually liked beyond just messing around ended up ODing on the stuff, which is why he avoided it, but I have to wonder if seeing what it did to Phil had something to do with it too.

And as much as Tommy Aldrige is a legend, I kind of wish that the whole band reset thing didn't happen in 1986, and that Cozy Powell stuck around. Clearly it didn't matter, because 1987 was still massive, but I really would have liked to have seen what those two did together.

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:12 am
And as much as Tommy Aldrige is a legend, I kind of wish that the whole band reset thing didn't happen in 1986, and that Cozy Powell stuck around. Clearly it didn't matter, because 1987 was still massive, but I really would have liked to have seen what those two did together.

Looking back it's kind of funny that Ozzy's rhythm section Aldridge/Sarzo ended up in Whitesnake, and Whitesnake's Murray/Powell reunited a year or two later in Ozzy's old band Black Sabbath.

Don't Damn Me wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 4:51 am But that huge self-titled album doesn't hold up well except for maybe Still of the Night.

I disagree.

This was Geffen A&R (wisely) figuring out that Whitesnake could be huge if they glammed up, looked more MTV friendly, etc.

Sykes COULD have been part of that plan, but for the conflict with David -- but the rest of the band were goners for videos and live shows.

And remember this wasn't such a TOP lineup at the time: Vivian Campbell left DIO and wasn't exactly huge, nor was Vandenberg nor Sarzo nor Aldridge. They all were established musicians and generally known to metalheads, but not "big" names like Van Halen, Gary Moore, or other players out there at the time.

I cannot think of another singer who has had more amazing guitar players in his bands than Coverdale. The next closest would be Ozzy, but dare I say it he is actually in a pretty distant second.

OZZY: Iommi, Rhoads, Lee, Wylde, and on a lower tier Holmes & Gus G

Don't get me wrong that is an incredible list, but let's look at Mr. Coverdale.

Coverdale: Blackmore, Sykes, Campbell, Vai, Page, DeMartini, Aldrich, Beach, as well as Vandenberg, Bolin, and Hoekstra

That is a fucking stellar list of players! Now that I see it written down it is even more impressive. I don't even want to think about how blown away I'd be if I saw that list as a sculpture.

Ryan81 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:33 pm That is a fucking stellar list of players! Now that I see it written down it is even more impressive. I don't even want to think about how blown away I'd be if I saw that list as a sculpture.

His list is so good that you can list off 11 guys and Micky Moody and Mel Galley aren't even needed.

Oddball side story to that. There's a guy by the name of Amos Sanfillipo who has claimed that he was in Whitesnake as an off-stage guitarist in the late 80s.

He's claimed this privately multiple times to friends of mine who know him, but I've never met him.

I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere. The only public mention I've ever found is this article about his VH tribute band from 2001. He's apparently played with Eric Martin, and he's listed as having been in London briefly in the late 80s.

He claims he was only 18 when he was in Whitesnake and that he was off stage because he's ugly. I suspect it's all bullshit but I don't really know.

aznsquirt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:05 pm

Ryan81 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:33 pm That is a fucking stellar list of players! Now that I see it written down it is even more impressive. I don't even want to think about how blown away I'd be if I saw that list as a sculpture.

His list is so good that you can list off 11 guys and Micky Moody and Mel Galley aren't even needed.

Sir Bernard Marsden would like a word with both of you. If he didn't write Here I Go Again, Cov would have spent the late 80s playing half full Sheffield Apollos and Sporthalle Böblingens and opening for Ratt or Europe in the US.

aznsquirt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:25 pm
He claims he was only 18 when he was in Whitesnake and that he was off stage because he's ugly. I suspect it's all bullshit but I don't really know.

If anything he was a stand-in like Tommy Thayer and Ed Kanon were on the Kiss reunion tour. Someone ready to step in If anything happened last minute.

Was going to mention Matthew Trippe but I don't think he was even that. Just a stand-in who dressed up as Sixx for a few photo sessions and maybe video.

And yes, Amos IS ugly.

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:34 am

FreddyFender wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:50 am Ah this is what I was referring to: not yet called Grand Slam, just Phil Lynott solo with Sykes, post-Lizzy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_IbTCskTaE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_in_Sweden_1983

Yeah I know about that, I have the album. It’s not post-Lizzy. Lizzy hadn’t done their final shows when that was recorded. Almost, but not quite.

I also thought this was post-Lizzy but the shows are from early August. They played four more festival shows in Aug-Sep and that was it.

This is a great example of why I enjoy coming to this board.

The other Thin Lizzy guys knew Thunder & Lightning was going to be the last album and tour but chose not to tell John Sykes, says Scott Gorham....

https://www.loudersound.com/features/ph ... inal-years

“John came into this band thinking, ‘This is going to be great, I’m a star now’ but, unbeknownst to him, we knew that that album and one more tour was it,” Gorham remembers. “So I felt sort of sorry for him. It was Phil’s idea not to tell him. He was afraid that if John was told he would quit the band. Kind of shitty, but there you go. In the long run, it didn’t really hurt John at all. It helped his career.”

aznsquirt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:25 pm Oddball side story to that. There's a guy by the name of Amos Sanfillipo who has claimed that he was in Whitesnake as an off-stage guitarist in the late 80s.

He's claimed this privately multiple times to friends of mine who know him, but I've never met him.

I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere. The only public mention I've ever found is this article about his VH tribute band from 2001. He's apparently played with Eric Martin, and he's listed as having been in London briefly in the late 80s.

He claims he was only 18 when he was in Whitesnake and that he was off stage because he's ugly. I suspect it's all bullshit but I don't really know.

They did have an off stage guy during the Slip of the Tongue era, but his name was Rick Seratte and I'm guessing he only played keys. For one show, he got to be on stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83_s7xwRnHE

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:51 am The other Thin Lizzy guys knew Thunder & Lightning was going to be the last album and tour but chose not to tell John Sykes, says Scott Gorham....

https://www.loudersound.com/features/ph ... inal-years

“John came into this band thinking, ‘This is going to be great, I’m a star now’ but, unbeknownst to him, we knew that that album and one more tour was it,” Gorham remembers. “So I felt sort of sorry for him. It was Phil’s idea not to tell him. He was afraid that if John was told he would quit the band. Kind of shitty, but there you go. In the long run, it didn’t really hurt John at all. It helped his career.”

Yep. Thin Lizzy was selling fewer records and playing smaller shows every album by the mid 80s. The farewell tour was in an era long before bands had the idea of faking a retirement as a cash grab - they were shocked Thunder and Lightning and the farewell tour did fairly well, and it was extended repeatedly. Darren Warton and Sykes wanted the band to continue, but Phil and Scott had long decided to end the band and use the break to try and kick heroin.

Scott moved back to the USA and kicked immediately after electroshock treatment recommended to him by Jimmy Page. Phil just continued down the same old path.

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 2:37 am

aznsquirt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:05 pm

Ryan81 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:33 pm That is a fucking stellar list of players! Now that I see it written down it is even more impressive. I don't even want to think about how blown away I'd be if I saw that list as a sculpture.

His list is so good that you can list off 11 guys and Micky Moody and Mel Galley aren't even needed.

Bernie Marsden contributed more to Whitesnake than Moody and Galley put together.

Also sang lead vocals on a song on each of the first two Whitesnake albums.

Outlaw and Free Flight, for you yanks that have never heard those albums.

Man, I swear I went through the list to find everyone but knew I was missing someone. Glad y'all pointed it out.

This is a pretty great thread. Coverdale made it happen.

The timing was always interesting to me when Sarzo, Campbell, Vandenberg and Aldridge joined the band. Hit album already in the can that they didn't have to work on, shot some famous vids, went on a huge tour. How much did those guys make from that? Sounds like it would be a nice fast influx of cash right away...

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:56 pm

aznsquirt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 10:05 pm

Ryan81 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:33 pm That is a fucking stellar list of players! Now that I see it written down it is even more impressive. I don't even want to think about how blown away I'd be if I saw that list as a sculpture.

His list is so good that you can list off 11 guys and Micky Moody and Mel Galley aren't even needed.

Sir Bernard Marsden would like a word with both of you. If he didn't write Here I Go Again, Cov would have spent the late 80s playing half full Sheffield Apollos and Sporthalle Böblingens and opening for Ratt or Europe in the US.

I was considering listing them, but I don't really know how good either of them are on a technical level. Even though Don't Break My Heart Again might be my favorite Whitesnake song. Particularly because of the guitar solo.

RaceFan3 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:29 pm The timing was always interesting to me when Sarzo, Campbell, Vandenberg and Aldridge joined the band. Hit album already in the can that they didn't have to work on, shot some famous vids, went on a huge tour. How much did those guys make from that? Sounds like it would be a nice fast influx of cash right away...

Well, considering Campbell bailed shortly after, clearly it wasn't enough. He was always pissed that Coverdale only wanted to write with Vandenberg, and then of course he jumps into Def Leppard where he wouldn't get a writing credit until Slang in 96.

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:35 pm
Well, considering Campbell bailed shortly after, clearly it wasn't enough. He was always pissed that Coverdale only wanted to write with Vandenberg, and then of course he jumps into Def Leppard where he wouldn't get a writing credit until Slang in 96.

But wasn't "Adrenalize" already written by the time Campbell joined the band? That came out in 1992, and "Retroactive" was only stuff that had previously been written/recorded, so 1996 would have really been his first opportunity to contribute.

ElectrickMagick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:17 pm

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:35 pm
Well, considering Campbell bailed shortly after, clearly it wasn't enough. He was always pissed that Coverdale only wanted to write with Vandenberg, and then of course he jumps into Def Leppard where he wouldn't get a writing credit until Slang in 96.

But wasn't "Adrenalize" already written by the time Campbell joined the band? That came out in 1992, and "Retroactive" was only stuff that had previously been written/recorded, so 1996 would have really been his first opportunity to contribute.

Exactly. The point was, he was pissed about not being able to get writing credits in Whitesnake, and then left that situation to get into another one where he wouldn't get writing credits for a significant amount of time.

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:35 pm

RaceFan3 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:29 pm The timing was always interesting to me when Sarzo, Campbell, Vandenberg and Aldridge joined the band. Hit album already in the can that they didn't have to work on, shot some famous vids, went on a huge tour. How much did those guys make from that? Sounds like it would be a nice fast influx of cash right away...

Well, considering Campbell bailed shortly after, clearly it wasn't enough. He was always pissed that Coverdale only wanted to write with Vandenberg, and then of course he jumps into Def Leppard where he wouldn't get a writing credit until Slang in 96.

He did Lou Gramm, Shadow King and Riverdogs in between Whitesnake and Leppard. Probably not much money in that either.

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 12:31 am

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:35 pm

RaceFan3 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:29 pm The timing was always interesting to me when Sarzo, Campbell, Vandenberg and Aldridge joined the band. Hit album already in the can that they didn't have to work on, shot some famous vids, went on a huge tour. How much did those guys make from that? Sounds like it would be a nice fast influx of cash right away...

Well, considering Campbell bailed shortly after, clearly it wasn't enough. He was always pissed that Coverdale only wanted to write with Vandenberg, and then of course he jumps into Def Leppard where he wouldn't get a writing credit until Slang in 96.

He did Lou Gramm, Shadow King and Riverdogs in between Whitesnake and Leppard. Probably not much money in that either.

Yep. Viv came into WS still really bitter over what happened with Dio - he wasn't fitting in with the other guys and had a bad attitude, so Coverdale eventually gave him his walking papers during SOTT rehearsals.

Life humbled him after that - he tried to do his own projects and they did fuck all. When he came into Def Leppard, he already knew Joe Elliott well and was able to appreciate the opportunity more.

Gotta remember he was in his twenties when the Dio/WS stuff was going on. Don't know about you guys, but I was a hot-headed moron when I was that age too.

FreddyFender wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:16 am
Gotta remember he was in his twenties when the Dio/WS stuff was going on. Don't know about you guys, but I was a hot-headed moron when I was that age too.

He was also 8 years younger than the second youngest member of that line-up. The other three were 12 years older. That must have been a weird feeling for him being a just married (!!) 25 year old on tour with a bunch of old farts who have seen it all.

RaceFan3 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 5:29 pm The timing was always interesting to me when Sarzo, Campbell, Vandenberg and Aldridge joined the band. Hit album already in the can that they didn't have to work on, shot some famous vids, went on a huge tour. How much did those guys make from that? Sounds like it would be a nice fast influx of cash right away...

They got the fast money from touring, but Cov and Sykes got the long-time money from the album and publishing. Sykes probably made more money from Whitesnake than all of'em.

He got a top lineup because he's a legend and went the Ozzy/Sabbath/Rainbow route of going after the top hired guns of the era to do 87'. I'm sure Kolonder and Geffen had something to do with that as well. Vivian is a strange one. He was great on those first two Dio albums, but just flamed out after that. Doesn't even sound like the same player. Viv and Vai were strange choices because neither could come close to the thick Les Paul sound that Sykes had and really gave the band their sound on that album.