Metal Sludge Gossip Board

I was reminded of this article that came out in RS a couple of years ago. A great insight to the bizarre underground that became the hunt for Axl’s Chinese Democracy era leaks.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 234645804/

I remember my interest in new Guns was piqued in 05/06 when Axl was spotted (again reported by RS) at some Korn party and buzz for CD was stirring up for the first time since 2002.

The message boards had been lively from the start of the millennium but by 2006 had absolutely hit their stride and in place of social media that’s where rumours, gossip, and leaks were shared freely. It seems crazy it was all 20 years ago now.

I also distinctly remember songs like The Blues and TWAT becoming instant fan favourites in this era but by the time the album came out had been basically neutered to oblivion. Total anticlimax come 2008.

Were any of you active on any of these boards back in the day? From my memory there was:

MyGNR.com
HTGTH.com
2000intentions
Chinesedemocracy.com

Am I missing any?

Wow this post made me remember that at one point Axl joined a forum, not sure which one but it was for a very short time and he was answering every question in a real humble way, was that true or was some troll?
I believed it back then!

Z28 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:25 am Wow this post made me remember that at one point Axl joined a forum, not sure which one but it was for a very short time and he was answering every question in a real humble way, was that true or was some troll?
I believed it back then!

It was true, he used the username 'Dexter' cause he loved the show.

Z28 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 5:25 am Wow this post made me remember that at one point Axl joined a forum, not sure which one but it was for a very short time and he was answering every question in a real humble way, was that true or was some troll?
I believed it back then!

Yeah that was definitely him, I believe it was verified by management at the time.

He joined 2 or 3 forums under that name and as you say, answered fans questions.

It was basically the only promotion he did for CD. To a bunch of people who were guaranteed to buy the album anyway.

I forgot about that. He released CD and then never promoted it, right? Was there a reason? That he wasnt happy the record company made him release it?

Also around this time was Axl’s infamous appearance on Eddie Trunk’s radio show, which he crashed. I think Scott Ian, Jericho and Bas were all in the studio too. I remember specifically Bas who must have been (trying to be) sober at the time declare ‘I’m starting drinking again’ after reading Axl’s text to him that he was coming into the radio studio. Daft git.

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:10 am I forgot about that. He released CD and then never promoted it, right? Was there a reason? That he wasnt happy the record company made him release it?

I think you’re pretty much bang on. Don’t think he was happy at being forced to release it then. Which is obviously insane considering it was 2008 by this point.

He definitely was still cantankerous enough in those days. Shot himself in the foot though. I loved the leaked songs when I heard them. The album, not so much. I did buy it however.

There used to be a great site (not board) called gnrmp3warehouse.com where I got my first listens to the old demos and bootlegs. I think there where I first heard the leaked "Oh My God".

Speaking of boards, what is the name of the one that has bootleg concerts on dvd and audio? I think they have a sister site with Motley Crue stuff. I used it probably 5-7 years back, but can't find it anymore...if it even exists.

Didn’t Axl come on here once and answer a bunch of questions ?

This was such a weird era, and a pivotal part of my childhood.

Back in the mid-90’s, early AOL days, I was on GN’R message boards. Like when I was in 6th grade. Del James used to talk to me on instant messenger. I even remember messaging with him when Slash announced he was leaving the band. I used to trade a shitload of VHS concert bootlegs through the mail with people on there.

During junior high and high school I didn’t follow as closely but I’d been on Here Today…, MyGNR, and CD.com for as long as they existed. I was SterileEyes and then MarlaHooch. I don’t think I’ve posted at either site since I put my Locomotive cover up, which was 5+ years ago.

The first time Axl showed up on MyGNR I was there. I remember the mod confirming “Dexter is Axl Rose”. Dude gave the most nuanced/legalese answers I’ve ever heard from anyone who isn’t a lawyer themselves.

It was surreal reading that RS article a couple years back, and it was some pretty creepy stuff. I thought *I* was obsessed. Jesus.

Axl’s first “island of misfit toys” lineup was a monster. I’d argue the best lineup outside of the OG lineup. In fact, Axl may have been the weakest link. His voice was shot.

I recall an acoustic song called "Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll" being on limewire that had the lyrics "now all we have is aids, disco and techo" as an unfinished song idea premiered in front of an overzealous live audience in an unamed venue.

Ironic considering rumours abound that silkworms and oh my god were NINE INCH NAILS inspired cuts along with Elton John piano cuts like "The Blues" which became Street Of Dreams on the final 2008 release.

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 8:10 am I forgot about that. He released CD and then never promoted it, right? Was there a reason? That he wasnt happy the record company made him release it?

I think Phrozen got it right, but I think there were also problems with the packaging, like typos. I think he thought it was hastily put together. There was supposed to be a whole Best Buy rollout that never happened. He intended there to be multiple versions of the artwork (which all leaked a couple years later) but after it stiffed, no one could be bothered.

I remember his excuse for barely promoting it being something about promises not kept in the BB deal but I couldn't tell you exactly what it was.

I was there on release day! I think there was signage in the entryway and maybe a special section by the CD's but the store was absolutely not ChiDem Central that November (rainless, if I recall) day.

PhrozenInferno wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:45 amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 234645804/

I was so pumped when these leaked and then just got gradually more crestfallen the more I listened.

I still really like Chinese Democracy but I think it proved that you can't replicate the sound of a well-rehearsed rock band playing together. WITH MEMBERS THAT KNOW EACH OTHER. A lot of those musicians didn't know anybody in the band, or just knew one guy. I think Tommy Stinson knew Josh Freese and that's it.

So you got a bunch of guys that don't really know each other, all of whom come from completely different backgrounds, all trying to layer tracks on top of tracks on top of tracks, and you can only reach the lead singer in the middle of the night by phone. That anything listenable came out of that is a miracle.

Axl ended up suing management because he thought Irving Azoff intentionally sabotaged the release of the Chinese Democracy. The goal was to put Axl would be in such a bad financial position that he'd have no choice but to disband nu-Guns and launch a cash-in reunion tour.

Which is exactly what happened. They settled out of court.

Put Slash and Adler on that record instead of the paid robots and you’d probably have a “wow this is an awesome take” for 2008 Guns.

factchecker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:56 am I recall an acoustic song called "Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll" being on limewire that had the lyrics "now all we have is aids, disco and techo" as an unfinished song idea premiered in front of an overzealous live audience in an unamed venue.

Ironic considering rumours abound that silkworms and oh my god were NINE INCH NAILS inspired cuts along with Elton John piano cuts like "The Blues" which became Street Of Dreams on the final 2008 release.

That song was actually by a band called the Laughing Colours, I believe. I also came to it via Limewire!

Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 12:27 pm

PhrozenInferno wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:45 amhttps://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 234645804/

I was so pumped when these leaked and then just got gradually more crestfallen the more I listened.

I still really like Chinese Democracy but I think it proved that you can't replicate the sound of a well-rehearsed rock band playing together. WITH MEMBERS THAT KNOW EACH OTHER. A lot of those musicians didn't know anybody in the band, or just knew one guy. I think Tommy Stinson knew Josh Freese and that's it.

So you got a bunch of guys that don't really know each other, all of whom come from completely different backgrounds, all trying to layer tracks on top of tracks on top of tracks, and you can only reach the lead singer in the middle of the night by phone. That anything listenable came out of that is a miracle.

Man, I was absolutely obsessed with The Blues and Madagascar. Listening to the final versions now I struggle to see how there were ever decent songs in there. I’ll play those leaks though once every few years for kicks, and it does take me back.

I agree with TheDeadBastard above. The 2002 Nu GNR lineup was badass to me. I don’t know why. I think because it was all so weird and bizarre. Robin Finck and Tommy Stinson ?? Wtf man. Bring it, I thought. By 2008 it was over and had been for a while.

I maintain the 2002 lineup had more vigour than this current interminable reunion circle jerk.

"The Blues" is a cool song!

PhrozenInferno wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 2:10 pm

factchecker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 10:56 am I recall an acoustic song called "Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll" being on limewire that had the lyrics "now all we have is aids, disco and techo" as an unfinished song idea premiered in front of an overzealous live audience in an unamed venue.

Ironic considering rumours abound that silkworms and oh my god were NINE INCH NAILS inspired cuts along with Elton John piano cuts like "The Blues" which became Street Of Dreams on the final 2008 release.

That song was actually by a band called the Laughing Colours, I believe. I also came to it via Limewire!

They were kind of big in the Maryland area late 90s/early 00s. Surprised to see them mentioned here. They were on the level started by Jimmy from Jimmies Chicken Shack for awhile. Along with the Kelly Bell Band those bands were kinda big locally/regionally and actually got radio play on the Baltimore rock stations (as did local band Good Charlotte, who broke out a little more) during my college years.

Jitterbug used to rave about Chi Dem. Swore it was so great. I never got it. The solo in "Better" was ok but the album sucked I thought.

I literally grew up with Chinese Democracy. My whole way through it loomed over me being born in '87. Gimme a 30 compact disc (or the modern equivalent) and give us what the fuck was going on. I remember my college friends made fun of me once it actually game out!

Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 12:27 pm
I still really like Chinese Democracy but I think it proved that you can't replicate the sound of a well-rehearsed rock band playing together.

Jup, if they would've re-recorded the whole thing in a week anno 2007 I think something great would've come out of it.

Indy_Rob wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 12:30 pm Just a bloated, overproduced disaster.

True, but I still like it.

Chinese Democracy is really a cautionary tale on chasing perfection.

If AFD had been recorded in early 1987 then sat in the can unreleased until winter 1991.... it wouldnt have don't anything. The scene had changed by then. It would be at the top of those "Forgotten Hairmetal Classics" lists and GNR would be playing sports bars with LA Guns, Saigon Kick and Wildside. Actually Wildside wouldn't even exist, but I digress.

Chinese Democracy would have been multi-platinum in 2003. Instead it was a laughing stock in 2008.

You gotta do your best and then put it out there. The chips will fall where they fall.

FreddyFender wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2025 10:20 am Chinese Democracy is really a cautionary tale on chasing perfection.

If AFD had been recorded in early 1987 then sat in the can unreleased until winter 1991.... it would have don't anything. The scene had changed by then. It would be at the top of those "Forgotten Hairmetal Classics" lists and GNR would be playing sports bars with LA Guns, Saigon Kick and Wildside. Actually Wildside wouldn't even exist, but I digress.

Chinese Democracy would have been multi-platinum in 2003. Instead it was a laughing stock in 2008.

You gotta do your best and then put it out there. The chips will fall where they fall.

Good and true point!

I remember following those boards pretty closely - I was intrigued by Chinese Democracy and was hoping it would be a masterpiece.

I recall downloading off (Limewire?) the initial leaks: I thought IRS, The Blues and Catcher in the Rye all sounded great. I was VERY disappointed in the final versions. All the cool features were buried by endless tracks and the replaced vocal tracks for some (especially Madagascar) sounded bad. The rougher demos were certainly much better, in my view.

I still like a lot of it -- but its hard to wade through the overproduction. And some of the songs on it are weak.

SterileEyes1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:25 pm
The first time Axl showed up on MyGNR I was there. I remember the mod confirming “Dexter is Axl Rose”. Dude gave the most nuanced/legalese answers I’ve ever heard from anyone who isn’t a lawyer themselves.

That is so true. It was hard to even follow what he was saying. Nobody in the world would talk like those answers he was giving. It was very strange. I seem to remember right off the bat he really got into with somebody. They were cussing back and forth at eachother. I figured Axl was going to terminate the session right then, but he hung in there.

Chinese Democracy has some great songs. It's a shame it wasn't more successful.

Ryan81 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2025 12:49 am

SterileEyes1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:25 pm
The first time Axl showed up on MyGNR I was there. I remember the mod confirming “Dexter is Axl Rose”. Dude gave the most nuanced/legalese answers I’ve ever heard from anyone who isn’t a lawyer themselves.

That is so true. It was hard to even follow what he was saying. Nobody in the world would talk like those answers he was giving. It was very strange. I seem to remember right off the bat he really got into with somebody. They were cussing back and forth at eachother. I figured Axl was going to terminate the session right then, but he hung in there.

Chinese Democracy has some great songs. It's a shame it wasn't more successful.

You’re right this rings a bell. The first posts he made were him going after some regular on the board like he’d been lurking all along and knew what an arrogant ass the person was. I bet a lot of famous people have wanted to do that to an obsessed fan/Stan at some point.

And yeah those answers were full of disclaimers and qualifiers and it was like “Wow this person has clearly been sued a lot”

It is a great record.

veritas wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2025 5:02 pm All the cool features were buried by endless tracks and the replaced vocal tracks for some (especially Madagascar) sounded bad. The rougher demos were certainly much better, in my view.

I loved every version of Madagascar except the final cut that was on the album. Whatever they did to Axl's vocals was horrible; sounds like Tina Turner singing.

Still an awesome album though.