Metal Sludge Gossip Board

OOPS …
Rachel Bolan of Skid Row on releasing ‘Slave To The Grind’ as a Single; “(It was) our biggest mistake… I disagreed with the decision”
#rachelbolan #skidrow #davesabo #someonethatwasintheband #sebastianbach #scottihill #docmcgee #robaffuso #newjersey #slavetothegrind #quicksandjesus #metalsludge
https://metalsludge.tv/oops-rachel-bola ... -decision/

Sounds like he is referring to Bach in some of the "Someone in the band at the time wanted it as a single" talk...

$ludge

I thought he was going to say his biggest mistake was not hanging up the phone when the voice on the other line said "My name is Sebastian".

I think it was a ballsy move at the time, though he was correct that it alienated the female fanbase. I always thought that even the so-called "radio friendly" stuff had too much of an edge to get into the Top 10.

Quicksand Jesus was not going to keep their female fanbase - not as good as the ballads on the debut and not a traditional love song. Going heavier on Slave was a conscious decision that was going to skew heavily male not matter what. For the direction they decided to go in, Slave was the better choice

I read the Blab piece this morning and found it interesting. In hindsight, he’s probably right - band had a #1 album, a solid first single, even played Saturday Night Live and was headlining large venues… then crickets. I can’t remember a band from that era that fell as quickly (ignoring scandals a la Milli Vanilli). Granted, the grunge tidal wave would have surely wiped them out eventually regardless, but maybe they would have had a slightly longer run in the sun if they went with a ballad as the second single instead (or at least something more commercial than the title track).

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 4:53 pm I read the Blab piece this morning and found it interesting. In hindsight, he’s probably right - band had a #1 album, a solid first single, even played Saturday Night Live and was headlining large venues… then crickets. I can’t remember a band from that era that fell as quickly (ignoring scandals a la Milli Vanilli). Granted, the grunge tidal wave would have surely wiped them out eventually regardless, but maybe they would have had a slightly longer run in the sun if they went with a ballad as the second single instead (or at least something more commercial than the title track).

Technically it was the third single, and a ballad ("Wasted Time") WAS, in fact, the second single. Granted, there wasn't much in the way of commercial-sounding non-ballad rockers on STTG apart from "Monkey Business" (and maybe "Creepshow"? Or "Psycho Love"?). That whole album was SR trying to be more serious lyrically and musically than their fellow contemporaries, so apart from the title track, "Monkey Business", and the three ballads, what else was there?

He’s just re writing history. The band obviously wanted to be heavier and took Pantera out with them for that reason.

All of a sudden, he wants to bake cookies, play acoustic love songs and appeal to the female audience from 35 years ago.

That is something I will always respect Skid Row for. They were poised to be really big if they had just kept the vibe of the first record (or even got weaker like a lot of bands would've done), but instead they did the ballsy thing and got heavier. I was really surprised how heavy Slave was when I first heard it. Sure, it cost them dearly, but they gained even more of my support so it was easily worth the hit in sales. Plus, I think I told my older brother it was good so he picked up a copy when he probably wouldn't have otherwise.

It's too bad Wasted Time didn't do better for them as that is a really good song and way better than the ballads on the first one.

The only other band I can think of that got heavier when they would've benefitted from going softer was probably Judas Priest when they did Painkiller. They had recent publicity with the suicide trial and if they would've come out with something weaker it may have done well for them (or maybe not), but instead their balls got bigger and they gave us Painkiller. My hat is off to them for that.

I’m not really following his logic. It was released as a single in September 1991, which is right when Nevermind, Ten, Black Album, and all sorts of other stuff was coming out that was changing the shape of hard rock. Love the song but I’m not seeing where “Quicksand Jesus” was going to do for them what their other power ballads did two years earlier. The title track was ballsy and raw and more in line with where rock music was heading at the time.

And that’s a really weird claim that they asked stations to stop playing it.

dmbrocker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 5:11 pm Technically it was the third single, and a ballad ("Wasted Time") WAS, in fact, the second single.

I remember "Slave..." being the second video single from the album, and it going nowhere on MTV, and then "Wasted Time" being video single #3 and not faring much better. Wiki seems to back that, as it says that the "Slave..." single was released in September of '91, and "Wasted Time" in November.

I don't think I knew they ever did a video for "In A Darkened Room" until five minutes ago. Of the three, that's my favorite ballad from the album, but if radio was hot on "Quicksand," they should have absolutely fanned those flames.

I think "Psycho Love" and "The Threat" are probably the most straightforward "early '90s hard rock" songs from the album that would have made for a better single candidate than the title track.

SterileEyes1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:25 pm It was released as a single in September 1991, which is right when Nevermind, Ten, Black Album, and all sorts of other stuff was coming out that was changing the shape of hard rock. Love the song but I’m not seeing where “Quicksand Jesus” was going to do for them what their other power ballads did two years earlier.

1991 was Monster Ballads heaven -- "Silent Lucidity," "She Talks To Angels," "The Unforgiven," "Don't Cry," "Mama, I'm Coming Home," "Hole Hearted," "November Rain," "To Be With You," "More Than Words," "High Enough," "Wind of Change," "Love of a Lifetime," "Something To Believe In," "I Saw Red," "Miles Away"...

The timing would have been perfect for Skid Row to have another hit ballad. We can debate whether any of the three included on "Slave..." had enough mass appeal to be that hit, but a monster ballad was what was expected from these sorts of bands at that point (and more often than not, as single #2 from their respective albums, as with most of the above list).

The Slave album was definitely lacking the type of ballad that appealed to their audience a couple years prior. The album had a ton of buzz when it arrived...#1 debut...SNL...Monkey Business...the Rolling Stone magazine cover. Things were looking great. It seemed they were gonna be neck and neck with Guns N Roses that year.

I know the usual second single was usually a ballad, and to me Slave was a throwaway heavy track in which the band wanted to showcase their heavier side...I thought that was fine...if that album was strong enough to support that move. But to me, it wasn't. The ballads on the album were good, just not in a commercial sense.

No matter what, this record was destined to a quick death, which was disappointing to see. It just lacked the hooks and excitement of the debut.

It's strange...for whatever reason, I always think of Quicksand Jesus as the third single...but I am wrong on that. Wasted Time was third. And I think Jesus was released in April of 1992 as the fourth. There were videos for In a Darkened Room and Psycho Love, which I think were made for a home video release.

‘In a darkened room’ was the obvious ballad pick - I think it would have done well if released at the right time

‘Wasted time’ needed the end tag with Bach screaming cut off.
It was overkill.

But if radio was already playing ‘quicksand’ they should have not stepped in to stop it

“The threat”‘should have been the other rocker single

Psycho love & creepshow sucked

I don't remember any singles/videos except Monkey & Slave. And although I personally like them, none of the ballads on that album would have had mass appeal like 18 & Life or I Remember You or any of the aforementioned ballad hits by other artists of 1991.

If they thought they blew it with singles for the Slave album, they sure as shit didn't try to correct it with that awful Subhuman Race album.

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 9:08 pm

SterileEyes1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:25 pm It was released as a single in September 1991, which is right when Nevermind, Ten, Black Album, and all sorts of other stuff was coming out that was changing the shape of hard rock. Love the song but I’m not seeing where “Quicksand Jesus” was going to do for them what their other power ballads did two years earlier.

1991 was Monster Ballads heaven -- "Silent Lucidity," "She Talks To Angels," "The Unforgiven," "Don't Cry," "Mama, I'm Coming Home," "Hole Hearted," "November Rain," "To Be With You," "More Than Words," "High Enough," "Wind of Change," "Love of a Lifetime," "Something To Believe In," "I Saw Red," "Miles Away"...

The timing would have been perfect for Skid Row to have another hit ballad. We can debate whether any of the three included on "Slave..." had enough mass appeal to be that hit, but a monster ballad was what was expected from these sorts of bands at that point (and more often than not, as single #2 from their respective albums, as with most of the above list).

This is correct but Skid Row decided to trend chase both the Scorpions/Aerosmith ballad hits and the heavier thrash sound of Metallica, Megadeth and Priest's Painkiller which for a hot minute looked like the next big thing in hard rock. But no other thrash band made it past gold (Anthrax, Slayer) and then grunge obliterated all things thrash. Personally I don't think Skid Row were very good at thrash and they mixed it up with some punk as well so STTG was to me just a weird hybrid that tried to please everyone but didn't, even in 1991.

Fat_Elvis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:06 am none of the ballads on that album would have had mass appeal like 18 & Life or I Remember You

Pretty much this. They were all good songs, but no way were they gonna be enduring hits.

And maybe it's just me, but I call bullshit on Q Jesus being played on the radio. At least not on a regular basis.. If it was in such "demand" why did they never release it as a single.

They 100% made the right decision to release the heavy stuff. Everyone was releasing ballads, and they stood out going heavy. They had a pretty successful album/tour cycle. # 1 album , 2 million sold. That's pretty solid without any legit hit singles

"Quickand Jesus" is boring, meandering drivel.........I'm surprised it made the album, never mind the decision to release it as single?

"Slave to the Grind" is a filler track.......

"Wasted Time" is the most "accessible" of the ballads on Slave.

And Skid Row has always been Bolan's band, any claims "Our" is "revisionist history".......

Slave is a cool "album", but looking at the track listing, I can see there is not much of a selection for "singles".

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:49 am This is correct but Skid Row decided to trend chase both the Scorpions/Aerosmith ballad hits and the heavier thrash sound of Metallica, Megadeth and Priest's Painkiller which for a hot minute looked like the next big thing in hard rock.

"Slave" was released in June of '91. "Countdown to Extinction" was released in July of '92. (Unless you mean they were trend-chasing the far less commercial "Rust In Peace"?)

Meanwhile, the Black Album was released in August of '91. (Unless you mean they were trend-chasing "One," Metallica's only video single to that point?)

"Painkiller" came out in '90, but it wasn't exactly trendy -- and although Sebastian was a fan, he wasn't the one writing the songs.

Re: Aerosmith, are you referring to "Janie," meaning "a ballad with a message" rather than one that was just "ooh baby, I love you" (or "I remember you," ha)? If so, I can buy that. Maybe that's the takeaway -- not only did they not push the ballad from the album at the right time, but they didn't write the right kind of ballad in the first place.

To me, "Quicksand" was the least likely hit of the three -- it doesn't say the title until the end, and I can't remember a hit song that included "Jesus" in its title. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they immediately followed up "Monkey" with "Darkened Room" or "Wasted Time." Maybe it would have been like Anthrax's "Black Lodge" and done absolutely nothing, but maybe it would have given the record more legs.

One final point -- I saw Buckcherry live a few times on their s/t record, and after one show, I happened to overhear a conversation between a few people who worked for their label. They'd already had a big hit with "Lit Up" and were planning a big build toward "Check Your Head," but the L.A. radio station KROQ (one of the country's most influential) started playing a different pseudo-ballad, "For The Movies," instead for whatever reason, so the label had to completely pivot, shelve the campaign for "Check Your Head," scramble to film a video for "For The Movies" instead, etc. Point is, when radio jumps on something naturally (which almost never happens), you don't ask them to play something else instead -- you ride that wave and see how far it will take you.

It would be good to compare his current sentiments with commentary from period interviews

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:10 am

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:49 am This is correct but Skid Row decided to trend chase both the Scorpions/Aerosmith ballad hits and the heavier thrash sound of Metallica, Megadeth and Priest's Painkiller which for a hot minute looked like the next big thing in hard rock.

"Slave" was released in June of '91. "Countdown to Extinction" was released in July of '92. (Unless you mean they were trend-chasing the far less commercial "Rust In Peace"?)

Meanwhile, the Black Album was released in August of '91. (Unless you mean they were trend-chasing "One," Metallica's only video single to that point?)

"Painkiller" came out in '90, but it wasn't exactly trendy -- and although Sebastian was a fan, he wasn't the one writing the songs.

Re: Aerosmith, are you referring to "Janie," meaning "a ballad with a message" rather than one that was just "ooh baby, I love you" (or "I remember you," ha)? If so, I can buy that.

You're correct about Aerosmith. But for Metallica and Megadeth I didn't mean specific songs or albums. RIP was platinum, Justice multi platinum, they got bigger with every album and tour and it seemed that thrash was really about to blow up. Which it didn't as those were the only platinum bands in the genre, but nobody could know that in 1990-91.

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:10 am One final point -- I saw Buckcherry live a few times on their s/t record, and after one show, I happened to overhear a conversation between a few people who worked for their label. They'd already had a big hit with "Lit Up" and were planning a big build toward "Check Your Head," but the L.A. radio station KROQ (one of the country's most influential) started playing a different pseudo-ballad, "For The Movies," instead for whatever reason, so the label had to completely pivot, shelve the campaign for "Check Your Head," scramble to film a video for "For The Movies" instead, etc. Point is, when radio jumps on something naturally (which almost never happens), you don't ask them to play something else instead -- you ride that wave and see how far it will take you.

Interesting story. Even in the early '90s, the more influential radio stations wanted to appear ahead of the trends instead of following them. There was definitely a period of "guess the next hit power ballad" on some of those playlists.

After Adrenalize came out, a hard rock/hair metal station in Chicago ("the Blaze") put "Stand Up Kick Love Into Motion" in heavy rotation around the time "Let's Get Rocked" was peaking. But Def Leppard released a video for "Make Love Like a Man" instead and went with "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" as the first power ballad off the album.

(I feel silly just trying out those song titles.)

Releasing a covers EP next, and finally a full album in '95, also hurt their momentum. Heavy music was going down anyway and a select few could still draw in the mid 90s.

Mister Freeze wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:24 am I actually thought "Into Another" from Subhuman Race had more chart potential than the power ballads from Slave to the Grind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZt7fwMFYM

But by then, the ship had sailed.

MTV did give "Wasted Time" a chance. I'd come home from school and see that one and "Don't Cry" nonstop on the afternoon countdown shows.

IMO, Subhuman Race has 5 songs that are some of Skid Row's best (My Enemy, Firesign, Eileen, Into Another, Breakin' Down), unfortunately the other 7 or 8 songs are absolute garbage..........

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 9:08 pm

SterileEyes1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:25 pm It was released as a single in September 1991, which is right when Nevermind, Ten, Black Album, and all sorts of other stuff was coming out that was changing the shape of hard rock. Love the song but I’m not seeing where “Quicksand Jesus” was going to do for them what their other power ballads did two years earlier.

1991 was Monster Ballads heaven -- "Silent Lucidity," "She Talks To Angels," "The Unforgiven," "Don't Cry," "Mama, I'm Coming Home," "Hole Hearted," "November Rain," "To Be With You," "More Than Words," "High Enough," "Wind of Change," "Love of a Lifetime," "Something To Believe In," "I Saw Red," "Miles Away"...

The timing would have been perfect for Skid Row to have another hit ballad. We can debate whether any of the three included on "Slave..." had enough mass appeal to be that hit, but a monster ballad was what was expected from these sorts of bands at that point (and more often than not, as single #2 from their respective albums, as with most of the above list).

Fair points. Realistically the writing might have just been on the wall for them. I can sit here and say that getting more heavy and raw was the way to go because of where hard rock was generally heading at the time, but we all know what happened when they pushed that direction even further on the next album.

The 3 ballads on slave were not as good or as commercial sounding as the ones from the self titled album. As others have said there is no obvious singles on slave to the grind. Lol at thinking creepshow or Psycho love would have done anything in the charts.

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:10 am To me, "Quicksand" was the least likely hit of the three -- it doesn't say the title until the end, and I can't remember a hit song that included "Jesus" in its title.

Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode. Their last US hit, and second biggest (#28).

Just nitpicking - the rest of your post was good.

GoodJudge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:03 am Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode. Their last US hit, and second biggest (#28).

Just nitpicking - the rest of your post was good.

Nitpick away! Good call, and you're absolutely right. (I was never a big DM fan, but I certainly remember seeing this video 1000 times while waiting for something I liked better to come on.)

To clarify, I don't think any of the non-ballads on "Slave" would have moved the needle very much -- just that they would have likely fared better than the title track, which was too heavy to be a single.

If Rachel isn't bullshitting and radio was actually interested in "Quicksand," they should have filmed a big-budget Wayne Isham music video for it immediately. Wonder why they decided to move forward with "Wasted Time" (also directed by Isham, incidentally) as single #3 instead? Maybe it was already in the can and they didn't want to change course?

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:31 am

GoodJudge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:03 am Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode. Their last US hit, and second biggest (#28).

Just nitpicking - the rest of your post was good.

Nitpick away! Good call, and you're absolutely right. (I was never a big DM fan, but I certainly remember seeing this video 1000 times while waiting for something I liked better to come on.)

To clarify, I don't think any of the non-ballads on "Slave" would have moved the needle very much -- just that they would have likely fared better than the title track, which was too heavy to be a single.

If Rachel isn't bullshitting and radio was actually interested in "Quicksand," they should have filmed a big-budget Wayne Isham music video for it immediately. Wonder why they decided to move forward with "Wasted Time" (also directed by Isham, incidentally) as single #3 instead? Maybe it was already in the can and they didn't want to change course?

The video for Quicksand was delayed because they didn't like the original cut from the director. The ended up putting it out months later with added footage.

GoodJudge wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:03 am

Hair I Go Again wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:10 am To me, "Quicksand" was the least likely hit of the three -- it doesn't say the title until the end, and I can't remember a hit song that included "Jesus" in its title.

Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode. Their last US hit, and second biggest (#28).

Just nitpicking - the rest of your post was good.

?

Enjoy the silence and policy of truth were released after personal Jesus and charted higher.

Master of servant also charted higher early in their career. Meaning personal Jesus was their 4th highest charting hit in the USA mainstream charts.