Metal Sludge Gossip Board

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 12:44 pm**

Companion to the other thread...what are some records that seemed huge, but actually didn't sell a lot?

For instance, in my group of kids, Motorhead was huge, particularly Ace of Spades, but it doesn't seem to have even charted in the U.S., much less go gold or anything.

The Ramones, sold like shit. Their first album DID go gold, but that was after 38 years of sales.

Pretty sure bands like the Cramps, Stooges and Dolls were total sales failures as well, despite every single person I have ever known owning at least one of their albums.

So...what ya got?

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:01 pm**

I was a honk for Black 'n Blue when they were playing the clubs here in L.A.. When they got their deal w/ Geffen and were tagged all over as 'The next Van Halen!', they couldn't miss, right? 'Hold on to 18' was a great lead single, got tons of MTV & radio play and if I remember right, the record didn't even crack the Billboard top 100. Don't know what it sold but surely it was bubkiss.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:49 pm**

It's bizarre to me that a major believed so much in Black N Blue. Great songs but one ugly ass band and that mattered.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:55 pm**

Mr. Big's Lean into It.

#1 single for three weeks, but the album only sold one million.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:00 pm**

Europe - Prisoners in Paradise. After two multiplatinum albums and still on the same major, this album didn't even chart in the US. And there was no demand for a tour.

Judas Priest - Painkller. Ram It Down went gold and was considered a bomb. Painkiller is now hailed as one of their classics, but didn't sell much more than RID at the time and is still only gold.

Alice Cooper - Hey Stoopid. Was shocked when I found out here what a bomb that was. At the time it seemed bigger with the first two singles on MTV and well attended arena shows.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:02 pm**

LurkingAtWork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:49 pm It's bizarre to me that a major believed so much in Black N Blue. Great songs but one ugly ass band and that mattered.

Krokus and Keel are also in that category, probably the worst three investments in 80s metal.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:09 pm**

It's also hard to believe now that AC/DC just a few years after HTH/BIB struggle to go gold with FOTS and FOTW and thst Fair Warning was very close to becoming the only VH album not to go platinum until the Cherone album.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:03 pm**

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:00 pm Europe - Prisoners in Paradise. After two multiplatinum albums and still on the same major, this album didn't even chart in the US. And there was no demand for a tour.

Alice Cooper - Hey Stoopid. Was shocked when I found out here what a bomb that was. At the time it seemed bigger with the first two singles on MTV and well attended arena shows.

Europe - agreed but that isn’t what this thread is about. That’s an album that should’ve been big but went no where. Bon Jovi These Days comes to mind too especially considering Always was such a huge hit from the GH record. And of course Winger Pull and Warrant Dog Eat Dog.

Alice - I thought it did well. The singles got MTV play and the initial tour did well. He struggled later in the 90’s though just like everyone else.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:13 pm**

LurkingAtWork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:49 pm It's bizarre to me that a major believed so much in Black N Blue. Great songs but one ugly ass band and that mattered.

It seems like there was a lag phase where the style of music was starting to break, but "they have to be cute" hadn't yet become the norm.

It occurred to me that BnBs entire signing/recording/first record release cycle happened while Metal Health was huge.

I wonder if Quiet Riot single handedly got a few extra ugly bands through the door before record labels smartened up.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:31 pm**

I was surprised that Trixter’s debut didn’t sell more.
3 videos all over MTV. Only went Gold.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:34 pm**

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:02 pm
LurkingAtWork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 1:49 pm It's bizarre to me that a major believed so much in Black N Blue. Great songs but one ugly ass band and that mattered.
Krokus and Keel are also in that category, probably the worst three investments in 80s metal.

Black N Blue, Krokus, and Keel is some kind of Sludge Trinity. But not a good Trinity.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:36 pm**

Duran Duran.

A lot of hit singles and mtv favourites in the early and mid 80s, but their biggest selling albums are not huge sellers like i would expect.

I guess their albums didn't really have staying power and were not big sellers in the years after they were released. I guess there are only so many teenage girls to buy your product. See also KISS in the 70s but replace teenage girls with teenage boys.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:44 pm**

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:00 pm

Judas Priest - Painkller. Ram It Down went gold and was considered a bomb. Painkiller is now hailed as one of their classics, but didn't sell much more than RID at the time and is still only gold.

Would it be fair to say painkiller is the fair warning of the Judas Priest catalog?

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:25 pm**

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:56 pm Painkiller is mostly shit. It’s a parody of Judas Priest

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:30 pm**

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:56 pm Painkiller is mostly shit.

No way. The only song on Painkiller that's meh is Leather Rebel (so of course a live version is one of the bonus tracks on the remastered version).

As far as sales goes, the dedicated fans love it, but it didn't have any singles that had any commercial appeal.

Honestly, all of the 70s\80s heavy metal bands were in a nadir at that point, because the hairbands had fully taken over. Think about it, what classic Heavy Metal band did anything of note from 1988 to 1990? About all I can think of is One from Metallica in 1989, and then Rust hit in late 1990.

Ozzy was around, but wasn't really OZZY again until No More Tears (Late 91)
Judas Priest was done after Turbo
Iron Maiden had bombed with No Prayer, Fear of the Dark was a "comeback" album for them in 1992
Dio was done after Dream Evil
Black Sabbath had been done since Born Again in 83, and even Dehumanizer didn't really do anything in 1992
Motorhead barely moved the needle with 1916, and that was only with Sony pushing the shit out of it (temporarily)
Scorpions didn't get moving with Crazy World until Wind of Change hit in 1991, and Savage Amusement was a giant let down after Love at First Sting

I mean, I suppose you could say Alice Cooper did well with Trash, but that was because it fit in with the rest of the hairbands at the time.

I would just assume any album from a non hairband metal act from 1988 to 1990 didn't sell at all.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:39 pm**

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:56 pm Painkiller is mostly shit.

I was going to tell you to shut your whore mouth but then I realized I've never listened to that album front to back.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:01 pm**

pieceofme wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:36 pm Duran Duran.

A lot of hit singles and mtv favourites in the early and mid 80s, but their biggest selling albums are not huge sellers like i would expect.

I guess their albums didn't really have staying power and were not big sellers in the years after they were released. I guess there are only so many teenage girls to buy your product. See also KISS in the 70s but replace teenage girls with teenage boys.

This one is a great answer. It blows my mind to know Seven and the Ragged Tiger is only a double platinum seller in the US. When I was 13, you could not escape this band...they were everywhere. But, yeah, I guess they were a singles band.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:06 pm**

DonJuanDeMarco wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:03 pm
Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 2:00 pm Europe - Prisoners in Paradise. After two multiplatinum albums and still on the same major, this album didn't even chart in the US. And there was no demand for a tour.

Alice Cooper - Hey Stoopid. Was shocked when I found out here what a bomb that was. At the time it seemed bigger with the first two singles on MTV and well attended arena shows.
Europe - agreed but that isn’t what this thread is about. That’s an album that should’ve been big but went no where. Bon Jovi These Days comes to mind too especially considering Always was such a huge hit from the GH record. And of course Winger Pull and Warrant Dog Eat Dog.

Alice - I thought it did well. The singles got MTV play and the initial tour did well. He struggled later in the 90’s though just like everyone else.

I felt there was a lot of hype for Prisoners in Paradise...so much so that I went out and bought it right when it was released. And I had never owned a Europe album. Too bad it bombed -- it's a fantastic album.

These Days by Bon Jovi is an excellent choice here, too. I know it did much better in the US...was #1 in the UK and did very well here in Canada. It seemed a lot of people had that album here in Canada and seemed very promoted here.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:37 pm**

WASP, have two Gold albums in the US.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:19 am**

"Painkiller" kicks ass.

I thought so back in the day, and I still think so now.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:13 am**

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:21 pm Metallica isn’t a classic heavy metal band.

Maiden were going platinum in 1988 with SSOASS.

But didn't get there. 7th Son is only certified gold and I recall that the tour (With Frehley's Comet) had to be cut short. Their last platinum studio album was Somewhere.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:17 am**

pieceofme wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:36 pm Duran Duran.

A lot of hit singles and mtv favourites in the early and mid 80s, but their biggest selling albums are not huge sellers like i would expect.

I guess their albums didn't really have staying power and were not big sellers in the years after they were released. I guess there are only so many teenage girls to buy your product. See also KISS in the 70s but replace teenage girls with teenage boys.

This is a good one. Totally agree that everyone seemed to love/own Rio in particular, and footage from those first three album tours is like Beatlemania! You'd think that Rio would have sold 10mm like INXS' Kick. Nope, not even in the ballpark.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:22 am**

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:30 pm
BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:56 pm Painkiller is mostly shit.
No way. The only song on Painkiller that's meh is Leather Rebel (so of course a live version is one of the bonus tracks on the remastered version).

As far as sales goes, the dedicated fans love it, but it didn't have any singles that had any commercial appeal.

Honestly, all of the 70s\80s heavy metal bands were in a nadir at that point, because the hairbands had fully taken over. Think about it, what classic Heavy Metal band did anything of note from 1988 to 1990? About all I can think of is One from Metallica in 1989, and then Rust hit in late 1990.

Ozzy was around, but wasn't really OZZY again until No More Tears (Late 91)
Judas Priest was done after Turbo
Iron Maiden had bombed with No Prayer, Fear of the Dark was a "comeback" album for them in 1992
Dio was done after Dream Evil
Black Sabbath had been done since Born Again in 83, and even Dehumanizer didn't really do anything in 1992
Motorhead barely moved the needle with 1916, and that was only with Sony pushing the shit out of it (temporarily)
Scorpions didn't get moving with Crazy World until Wind of Change hit in 1991, and Savage Amusement was a giant let down after Love at First Sting

I mean, I suppose you could say Alice Cooper did well with Trash, but that was because it fit in with the rest of the hairbands at the time.

I would just assume any album from a non hairband metal act from 1988 to 1990 didn't sell at all.

My musical taste is all over the place and SFV is firmly in my top-5 albums of all time. Defenders is likely top 25. I couldn't do Painkiller. All the things I loved about Priest at the time were gone. Listening to the tracks I remember was like taking a beating with a pipe.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:43 am**

War_in_D wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:06 pm
I felt there was a lot of hype for Prisoners in Paradise...so much so that I went out and bought it right when it was released. And I had never owned a Europe album. Too bad it bombed -- it's a fantastic album.

Yeah, that is a strange story. There was a big push when it was finally released, and it did ok in Europe but nothing in the US. Supposedly former manager and John Norum's stepdad Thomas Erdtmann pissed off the US Sony execs so much they wanted to kill "his" band but both Erdtmann and Norum were long out of the picture by then.

Maybe they didn't want to have them on tour as 4 out of 5 members were drug addicts at the time, Kee Marcello in particular - but that didn't stop GnR and Skid Row in 91-92.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:21 am**

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:43 am
War_in_D wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:06 pm
I felt there was a lot of hype for Prisoners in Paradise...so much so that I went out and bought it right when it was released. And I had never owned a Europe album. Too bad it bombed -- it's a fantastic album.

Yeah, that is a strange story. There was a big push when it was finally released, and it did ok in Europe but nothing in the US. Supposedly former manager and John Norum's stepdad Thomas Erdtmann pissed off the US Sony execs so much they wanted to kill "his" band but both Erdtmann and Norum were long out of the picture by then.

Maybe they didn't want to have them on tour as 4 out of 5 members were drug addicts at the time, Kee Marcello in particular - but that didn't stop GnR and Skid Row in 91-92.

Huh, this is the first time I've heard Europe had big drug issues. Granted, I've never heard much of anything at all about Europe.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:55 am**

BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 4:56 pm
Sadly they’ve done nothing but try to replicate Painkiller for the last thirty-five years. Why don’t they try to replicate Screaming For Vengeance?

Apart from their title tracks, Firepower and Invincible Shield are more SFV-y than Painkillery.

KKs Priest is trying to replicate Painkiller, i'll grant you that.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:31 am**

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:21 am
Love_Industry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:43 am
War_in_D wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:06 pm
I felt there was a lot of hype for Prisoners in Paradise...so much so that I went out and bought it right when it was released. And I had never owned a Europe album. Too bad it bombed -- it's a fantastic album.

Yeah, that is a strange story. There was a big push when it was finally released, and it did ok in Europe but nothing in the US. Supposedly former manager and John Norum's stepdad Thomas Erdtmann pissed off the US Sony execs so much they wanted to kill "his" band but both Erdtmann and Norum were long out of the picture by then.

Maybe they didn't want to have them on tour as 4 out of 5 members were drug addicts at the time, Kee Marcello in particular - but that didn't stop GnR and Skid Row in 91-92.
Huh, this is the first time I've heard Europe had big drug issues. Granted, I've never heard much of anything at all about Europe.

It was well known here in Sweden at the time but maybe not so much in other countries. Kee Marcello who was a massive cokehead wrote about his drug abuse in his book but I don't think it was translated to English. Someone in Leppard - Joe - said Europe was the hardest partying band they ever toured with. John Norum got fired (no, he did NOT leave) because he was always smoking dope and acting unreliable/unprofessional. Ian Haugland supposedly didn't do drugs but he drank a lot instead.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:51 am**

Anthrax442 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 6:21 am
Love_Industry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:43 am
War_in_D wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 9:06 pm
I felt there was a lot of hype for Prisoners in Paradise...so much so that I went out and bought it right when it was released. And I had never owned a Europe album. Too bad it bombed -- it's a fantastic album.

Yeah, that is a strange story. There was a big push when it was finally released, and it did ok in Europe but nothing in the US. Supposedly former manager and John Norum's stepdad Thomas Erdtmann pissed off the US Sony execs so much they wanted to kill "his" band but both Erdtmann and Norum were long out of the picture by then.

Maybe they didn't want to have them on tour as 4 out of 5 members were drug addicts at the time, Kee Marcello in particular - but that didn't stop GnR and Skid Row in 91-92.
Huh, this is the first time I've heard Europe had big drug issues. Granted, I've never heard much of anything at all about Europe.

The Prisoners in Paradise story is a funny one. After Out of This World, the band went into the studio to record a follow up.

The band was offered a Dianne Warren song for the album, but they refused to use outside writers.

That song, "Look Away", along with "The Flame", were then offered to Cheap Trick, who were told they got first pick of the two, and which ever one they didn't pick would go to the band Chicago.

They chose "The Flame", Chicago get's" Look Away".

BOTH songs end up at #1 on the US Billboard charts.

Europe's "we don't need outside writers" album (Seventh Sign)? It got REJECTED by the label!

They start from scratch, now having to use outside writers, and put out a flop album anyway.

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 9:04 am**

What Comes Around Goes Around

Posted: **Wed Mar 12, 2025 10:46 am**

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 9:04 am What Comes Around Goes Around

HA! Yes, I do really love the album. Bought it when it first came out. I gotta hand it to Stevie. For having ONE album and not even a big record, he has made one hell of a career for himself.

Southgang, Heaven's Edge, Blue Tears, the band that shall not be named, there were lots of them that should've been bigger. Even Danger Danger who put out like 8 albums I don't even think their first one went gold.

The Sex Pistols and the Ramones and I would imagine a lot of other punk bands didn't sell that many records compared to their legacy. I would bet the Ramones sold more t-shirts than albums!

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