Metal Sludge Gossip Board

I don't remember where the quote came from but apparently one of them barely knew how his amp worked. Seems like all these guys could do was strum a few power chords and play some unimpressive solos. Maybe there were worse guitarists in punk?

IIRC, they each put out an instructional VHS guitar lesson thingy...that plus selling millions of records, they can't be THE worst guitarists...

I remember Celtic Frost's live guitarist playing atrocious solos on one clip, he's a contender fo sho.

I have never understood the hate these guys get as guitarists.

While I am not a guitarist, I can recognize great guitar players like anyone else (Rhodes, EVH) or some who stand out (DeMartini, Nuno, Jake E. Lee, etc.) but to me Jay Jay and Eddie seem no better or worse than a hundred other average guitarist throughout the 80s.

I understand not liking TS, but I have never seen what others see when they say how horrible of guitarists they are.

Ultimately, while not technically excellent, if they could play what was in their head, pull it off, and communicate what they wanted to...they were good guitarists.

Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

As a few people have already commented, they were up to the job of being the guitarists in Twisted Sister, whether in the studio or live. They may not have been virtuoso guitarists, but Twisted Sister never required that. They were a club band for years before they finally made it big. I don't think any guitarist remotely sucks after spending almost a decade playing clubs and making records before finally making it big.

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

Saxons guitarists are much better

TS guitarists were what KISS-haters accuse Ace of being which is ridiculous. They played what any guitarist could play after about 3 months or less. It works for their music though so it didn’t matter, but yeah, there wasn’t a single thing either of them ever played that made anyone go “oh, cool”. The fact that they played covers for years and years leads me to believe they had to be able to play SOMETHING, but the TS albums never made me think that.

To hear Jay Jay talk about almost being in KISS is hilarious. Ace easily slaughtered him. He was probably the weakest guitarist they ever auditioned (if he really did audition).

I would say yes. Few bands had TWO guys who sucked on guitar.
Maybe Slayer?

No. They may not have been the most technically proficient guitarists, but they fit Twisted Sister’s sound, and if you’re a TS fan, that’s about all you can ask for, isn’t it?

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 3:12 pm I would say yes. Few bands had TWO guys who sucked on guitar.
Maybe Slayer?

Well... not any more.

They make Greg Steele & Brent Muscat from Faster Pussycat sound like the kings of the Blues.

Ozzy Stradlin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:11 pm They make Greg Steele & Brent Muscat from Faster Pussycat sound like the kings of the Blues.

jesus

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 4:08 pm

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 3:12 pm I would say yes. Few bands had TWO guys who sucked on guitar.
Maybe Slayer?

Well... not any more.

Hanneman didn't suck. I was listening to the song Raining Blood the other day. It might be the greatest metal song ever. It is evil, jack.

HottKarl777 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:34 pm

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 4:08 pm

Love_Industry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 3:12 pm I would say yes. Few bands had TWO guys who sucked on guitar.
Maybe Slayer?

Well... not any more.

Hanneman didn't suck. I was listening to the song Raining Blood the other day. It might be the greatest metal song ever. It is evil, jack.

Neither of Slayer’s guitarists “sucked” at all. Both were tight as fuck on their rhythm parts which were no joke. When it came to solos, listen to Show No Mercy. They were capable of crafting some Maiden-esque solos but later opted for their “signature” noise solos which became their trademark (mainly Kerry). There is something to be said for well-placed dissonance though some people would not appreciate them not playing like EVH. A fiend used to say Kerry played all his solos in the Acid Scale.

As for Gary Holt, he’s as good as ANY thrash guitarist ever and I’m not even a big Exodus fan after the first album.

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:43 pm

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

As good as Ace??? No. Ace wrote fantastically phrased solos and had a kickass feel and tone. Eddie sounded like he played whatever Dee hummed to him. Maybe as good as Paul.

Wiseacre wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:41 pm

HottKarl777 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:34 pm

Bono Nettencourt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 4:08 pm

Well... not any more.

Hanneman didn't suck. I was listening to the song Raining Blood the other day. It might be the greatest metal song ever. It is evil, jack.

Neither of Slayer’s guitarists “sucked” at all. Both were tight as fuck on their rhythm parts which were no joke. When it came to solos, listen to Show No Mercy. They were capable of crafting some Maiden-esque solos but later opted for their “signature” noise solos which became their trademark (mainly Kerry). There is something to be said for well-placed dissonance though some people would not appreciate them not playing like EVH. A fiend used to say Kerry played all his solos in the Acid Scale.

As for Gary Holt, he’s as good as ANY thrash guitarist ever and I’m not even a big Exodus fan after the first album.

Dude you're spot on about Holt. He is arguably the best riff writer/rhythm/lead player in the genre.

Wiseacre wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:52 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:43 pm

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

As good as Ace??? No. Ace wrote fantastically phrased solos and had a kickass feel and tone. Eddie sounded like he played whatever Dee hummed to him. Maybe as good as Paul.

I love Ace but let’s call a spade a spade. Without the Space Costume and persona most of you nutswingers would be just as dismissive of him as you are of Ojeda.

Here is Eddie simply testing out a tuner and sounding better than Ace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9Gr3eTSsQ

Here he is playing and sounding better than half the clowns worshipped on this board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXjAU-8Pvoc

Ace was better than Eddie from TS. C'mon. Shock Me from Love Gun is shit hot. Frankie Bello shit hot.

HottKarl777 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 8:45 pm Ace was better than Eddie from TS. C'mon. Shock Me from Love Gun is shit hot. Frankie Bello shit hot.

Shock Me is my least favorite Ace song. It’s boring and doesn’t go anywhere. Most of Ace’s covers and pop garbage with Tod Howarth is better. Strange Ways craps all over Shock Me.

What does Anthrax’s bassist have to do with this?

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 8:59 pm

HottKarl777 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 8:45 pm Ace was better than Eddie from TS. C'mon. Shock Me from Love Gun is shit hot. Frankie Bello shit hot.

Shock Me is my least favorite Ace song. It’s boring and doesn’t go anywhere. Most of Ace’s covers and pop garbage with Tod Hogarth is better. Strange Ways craps all over Shock Me.

What does Anthrax’s bassist have to do with this?

The solo on the studio version is mint. His vibrato was KILLER.

The Frankie Bello reference was for my pleasure.

Okay

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 8:32 pm

Wiseacre wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:52 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:43 pm

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

As good as Ace??? No. Ace wrote fantastically phrased solos and had a kickass feel and tone. Eddie sounded like he played whatever Dee hummed to him. Maybe as good as Paul.

I love Ace but let’s call a spade a spade. Without the Space Costume and persona most of you nutswingers would be just as dismissive of him as you are of Ojeda.

Here is Eddie simply testing out a tuner and sounding better than Ace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9Gr3eTSsQ

Here he is playing and sounding better than half the clowns worshipped on this board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXjAU-8Pvoc

Ace’s solos are awesome and a master class in simple, but memorable phrasing. Facts.

Wiseacre wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:52 pm

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:43 pm

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

As good as Ace??? No. Ace wrote fantastically phrased solos and had a kickass feel and tone. Eddie sounded like he played whatever Dee hummed to him. Maybe as good as Paul.

You put Ace in your top three guitarists so that disqualifies you from commenting on other's guitar playing.

Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 7:43 pm

HueyRamone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:13 pm Ojeda while not the prodigy that E. Lee and Lynch were, was .... fine as a lead player for an American NWOBHM band, (which is sorta what they were up to YCSRNR). No one disses Saxon's guitarists, for example. No one even thinks about them.

French seemed like a basic rhythm guitist, who demanded to take a few solos as well.

I always thought Ojeda was as good as guys like Ace, Eddie Clark and Phil Campbell

I’ll take Ojeda and JJ over the guys in Slayer and Venom.

Never got into Saxon

Fast Eddie was pretty standard in the soloing department, but the man had an arsenal of great riffs. Twisted Sister had a couple of decent riffs, but did Ojeda and French even come up with them? Dee is credited for writing everything.

I'd still rank Campbell and Ace higher, they had a few nice solos. Nothing brilliant but definitely above average.

they were avg guitarists, and their live tone sucked. JJ was basically a chord guy. Real draw when they were in the clubs was Dee. he was insane and you never knew what to expect. They got the job done, but def no virtuosos here. Met Eddie a few times, always seemed like a nice guy

They were bar players - which is what I'd call someone that can play all kinds of flashy, complicated stuff when performing other peoples material, but could only come up with the most basic meat-and-potatoes stuff of their own.

But sometimes that's all you need - "We're Not Gonna Take It" is perfect as is. Wouldn't have been the hit it was if someone was trying to be Eddie all over the track.

............