Thoughts on The End of an Era

[bane]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

[Tymaster]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

He's gambling that Cincy wins a playoff game or two next year making him even more high profile. Given the history of the franchise under Mike Brown, I think Jay Gruden is a complete and total toolshed.

[SkyDog112046]

Indy is a mess. Who would want a coaching job where the meddling owner is going to set you up to lose? It sounds like Irsay is dead set of having Manning and Luck which will make it nearly impossible to build a decent team around them. Whoever takes that job now is looking at 3 years of disarray and then being fired. The time to get the Indy job would be after the next coach and hopefully after Irsay learned his lesson.

[poizond13]

Indy is a mess. Who would want a coaching job where the meddling owner is going to set you up to lose? It sounds like Irsay is dead set of having Manning and Luck which will make it nearly impossible to build a decent team around them. Whoever takes that job now is looking at 3 years of disarray and then being fired. The time to get the Indy job would be after the next coach and hopefully after Irsay learned his lesson.

You stupid fuck. We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster and the future best QB in the league for the next 15 years on his way. Yeah, what a horrible job.

I don't know where you make this shit up from, but the team is going to be run the same way it's always been: with the General Manager in full command of the team and Mr. Irsay making the final call on all major decisions. That's how it was with Polian. That's how it will be with Grigson. Don't make shit it up out of thin air and expect it to become fact, asshole.

[poizond13]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

We will win the division next year, mark it down. The Texans had their lucky year, now it's back to the cellar of the AFC South and rest of the NFL for the next 10 years.

[cantstopthemusic]

Indy is a mess. Who would want a coaching job where the meddling owner is going to set you up to lose? It sounds like Irsay is dead set of having Manning and Luck which will make it nearly impossible to build a decent team around them. Whoever takes that job now is looking at 3 years of disarray and then being fired. The time to get the Indy job would be after the next coach and hopefully after Irsay learned his lesson.

You stupid fuck. We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster and the future best QB in the league for the next 15 years on his way. Yeah, what a horrible job.

I don't know where you make this shit up from, but the team is going to be run the same way it's always been: with the General Manager in full command of the team and Mr. Irsay making the final call on all major decisions. That's how it was with Polian. That's how it will be with Grigson. Don't make shit it up out of thin air and expect it to become fact, asshole.

Yeah, that's Greg's job!

[demolition23]

Indy is a mess. Who would want a coaching job where the meddling owner is going to set you up to lose? It sounds like Irsay is dead set of having Manning and Luck which will make it nearly impossible to build a decent team around them. Whoever takes that job now is looking at 3 years of disarray and then being fired. The time to get the Indy job would be after the next coach and hopefully after Irsay learned his lesson.

You stupid fuck. We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster and the future best QB in the league for the next 15 years on his way. Yeah, what a horrible job.

One statement is debatable, and the other is pure supposition.
Right now they have an old QB who's coming off an extremely serious injury, and the promise of a high draft pick. Neither of those come with any guarantee they'll be delivering the goods at the NFL level over the next 2-3 years. There's also a fairly solid chance that through one maneuver or another, you WON'T have both those guys come Week 1 next season.

[bane]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

We will win the division next year, mark it down. The Texans had their lucky year, now it's back to the cellar of the AFC South and rest of the NFL for the next 10 years.

I'll save that one for the Mark my Words thread. Your time in the sun is over. The Texans are a vastly superior team to that bunch of old men and lousy draft picks you've got. Enjoy being irrelevant. You're going to be there for a long while.

[Facedown]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

[demolition23]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

He's not even the dominant QB of his era.
Not saying I would necessarily single out one guy, but consider this this...

Since Manning debuted he has set a number of individual records and has an amazing regular season record, with only the New England Patriots putting up a similar record to the Colts over the last 10-12 years. However, he is 9-10 in playoff games.

Also, since he started playing...

The season yardage record has fallen.
So has the season passing TDs record.
One QB has won three Superbowls and made it to five (with a possible fourth title pending).
Another QB has won two Superbowls and made it to three.
Several QBs have thrown for over 5,000 yds

Manning holds none of those records and has matched none of those feats.
Nor does it now look likely he will make it to some of Favre's records.


So yeah, great player, but if his career is over today, he won't be remembered as the greatest, or as truly dominant - given he only once won a Superbowl.. If he comes back and is average, same thing. IF he comes back and takes another title on the back of a big season or two? Then maybe, but he hasn't done that yet and might not be able to.

[poizond13]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

He's not even the dominant QB of his era.
Not saying I would necessarily single out one guy, but consider this this...

Since Manning debuted he has set a number of individual records and has an amazing regular season record, with only the New England Patriots putting up a similar record to the Colts over the last 10-12 years. However, he is 9-10 in playoff games.

Also, since he started playing...

The season yardage record has fallen.
So has the season passing TDs record.
One QB has won three Superbowls and made it to five (with a possible fourth title pending).
Another QB has won two Superbowls and made it to three.
Several QBs have thrown for over 5,000 yds

Manning holds none of those records and has matched none of those feats.
Nor does it now look likely he will make it to some of Favre's records.


So yeah, great player, but if his career is over today, he won't be remembered as the greatest, or as truly dominant - given he only once won a Superbowl.. If he comes back and is average, same thing. IF he comes back and takes another title on the back of a big season or two? Then maybe, but he hasn't done that yet and might not be able to.

Leave it to a soccer fan to not understand the far superior game of football. This is a TEAM sport. That was clearly exemplified today. Brady and Eli both had mediocre, or in the case of Brady, terrible games. Yet their teams still won. And I'm sure there will still be some idiot out there two years from now saying "Brady beat the Ravens and got them to the Super Bowl." For gods sake, fuck off. It's a team sport. Compare Peyton's individual stats and honors, including 4 MVPs, to anyone from this generation and tell me who stacks up better. I'll wait....

[demolition23]

Leave it to a soccer fan to not understand the far superior game of football.

I'm not a soccer fan. Hell, I'm not even from a country where soccer is the number one sport.
Not that where I'm from matters. I'm an NFL fan. I've been to games and see as much of it on TV every week as you do.

This is a TEAM sport. That was clearly exemplified today. Brady and Eli both had mediocre, or in the case of Brady, terrible games. Yet their teams still won.

I guess the Pats are a much better team than Indy then, cos Indy couldn't do shit without Manning. The Pats managed the season they lost their MVP. Kind of a black mark for your organization.

Compare Peyton's individual stats and honors, including 4 MVPs, to anyone

Why? It's a team sport.

And besides, at no point was I saying Peyton wasn't great. He has just been great in an era of great QBs, some of whom have had some pretty epic seasons and great success. Makes claiming he is the absolute dominant QB of the last decade impossible IMO. Throw in guys like Elway and Montana to the mix and I certain don't think he's a clear number one in history unless he can polish his resume with a couple more great seasons and a title (or at least some really credible playoff performances.

[MickeyG]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

He's gambling that Cincy wins a playoff game or two next year making him even more high profile. Given the history of the franchise under Mike Brown, I think Jay Gruden is a complete and total toolshed.

Maybe he just doesn't want a head coaching gig. Not everybody wants to be the main man. Maybe he likes just running an offense and not both with the whole bullshit.

[MickeyG]

Leave it to a soccer fan to not understand the far superior game of football. This is a TEAM sport.

More evidence of your lack of understanding of team sports. Which is better is personal preference, but to suggest soccer isn't a team sport is ridiculous.

[SkyDog112046]

Indy is a mess. Who would want a coaching job where the meddling owner is going to set you up to lose? It sounds like Irsay is dead set of having Manning and Luck which will make it nearly impossible to build a decent team around them. Whoever takes that job now is looking at 3 years of disarray and then being fired. The time to get the Indy job would be after the next coach and hopefully after Irsay learned his lesson.

You stupid fuck. We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster and the future best QB in the league for the next 15 years on his way. Yeah, what a horrible job.

I don't know where you make this shit up from, but the team is going to be run the same way it's always been: with the General Manager in full command of the team and Mr. Irsay making the final call on all major decisions. That's how it was with Polian. That's how it will be with Grigson. Don't make shit it up out of thin air and expect it to become fact, asshole.

You truly are a moron. You can't tell the difference between someone giving an honest assessment and someone bashing your team.

First off, Manning is not the #1 QB of all time. Montana and Elway were better before him. He's not even the #1 QB of his era. Brees is taking down the QB records, Rodgers is currently playing at a higher level, and some guy in New England has won more regular season and playoff games than he has. Hell, Peyton might not even be considered the best Manning at this point if Eli gets another ring. So is Peyton Manning one of the all-time greats? Yes, he certainly is. But is he the best ever? Not by any measurement.

Secondly, why do you think the major coaching candidates are avoiding Indy like the plague? Because they are a mess from a personnel standpoint. They have a lot of holes, they are about to lose some key veterans, and it appears they are going to tie up 20% of the salary cap in 2 players that play the same position. One who might not be physically able to play, and another who while he projects to be very good will not be effective without someone blocking for him, catching his passes, providing an ample running threat to keep defenses honest, and a defense to get him the ball back after he makes the inevitable rookie mistakes.

Drafting Luck is the right way to go. But they have to build a team around him and it's going to take some time. It will be made more difficult by having to pay Manning $28M instead of using that money to rebuild. $28M could pay for 5 or 6 impact players, figure it's the price of a stud LT, an interior O-lineman, an offensive playmaker either receiver or RB, and a couple more playmakers on defense. But instead it looks like it's going to a guy who is one hit away from being done, if in fact he is even able to come back at all. Whoever comes in as a coach is being set up for failure. Fans lose patience with coaches after a couple of years. Chances are the next guy won't be around long enough to see it through. That's why they will end up with someone like Tressel for a short term deal.

[bane]

I never in a million years would have thought an Indy gig would be as undesirable as a Jacksonville gig, but maybe he just doesn't want his first job to be someplace that is destined to suck for the foreseeable future.

He's gambling that Cincy wins a playoff game or two next year making him even more high profile. Given the history of the franchise under Mike Brown, I think Jay Gruden is a complete and total toolshed.

Maybe he just doesn't want a head coaching gig. Not everybody wants to be the main man. Maybe he likes just running an offense and not both with the whole bullshit.

That is entirely possible, but it's probable that he doesn't want his first head coaching job to be someplace that will end in failure after a few seasons. Jacksonville is a mess of an organization, and Indy has serious personnel issues right now. Neither is set up to win immediately.

[poizond13]

It will be made more difficult by having to pay Manning $28M instead of using that money to rebuild. $28M could pay for 5 or 6 impact players, figure it's the price of a stud LT

You're right, we should release Peyton to sign a "stud LT." Nevermind the fact that we already have a stud LT, our first round draft pick from last year who had a promising rookie season. But yeah, let's release Peyton so that we can sign yet another LT. That makes sense.

Congratulations, in one sentence you've summed up your complete cluelessness of our situation. Now shut the fuck up and move on to something that you actually know about, like spy tapes and other methods of cheating.

[johnk5150]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

He's not even the dominant QB of his era.

Why would P back that statement up with things like facts when saying it is so much faster?

[SkyDog112046]

It will be made more difficult by having to pay Manning $28M instead of using that money to rebuild. $28M could pay for 5 or 6 impact players, figure it's the price of a stud LT

You're right, we should release Peyton to sign a "stud LT." Nevermind the fact that we already have a stud LT, our first round draft pick from last year who had a promising rookie season. But yeah, let's release Peyton so that we can sign yet another LT. That makes sense.

Congratulations, in one sentence you've summed up your complete cluelessness of our situation. Now shut the fuck up and move on to something that you actually know about, like spy tapes and other methods of cheating.

Fool, I just used those positions to illustrate what $28M could bring. There are holes everywhere. $28M can bring in a half dozen impact players at key positions - pass rusher, cover corner, all-pro caliber interior linemen, etc.. Whatever they need to build a team around their new QB. Hell, it could sign a few of their own UFAs they want to bring back, add 1 or 2 UFAs from other teams, and add a half dozen quality depth players to fill in the roster. They certainly had issues last year in the spots where their starters went down. How about a decent backup QB? A team's biggest need IS QB, but it's not their only need.

[Luminiferous]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

Maybe Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana and Bart Starr have come out of retirement and signed with the Colts...

[bigbuttskinner]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

Honestly, Peyton isn't truly great. He is a very good QB who has done well in the regular season. He is very, very below average in the playoffs. He has had a nice career, but since it's pretty much over he had better get used to seeing Eli have much more playoff success than he ever had.

[poizond13]

We've got the #1 QB of all time on our roster

No you don't.

Honestly, Peyton isn't truly great. He is a very good QB who has done well in the regular season. He is very, very below average in the playoffs. He has had a nice career, but since it's pretty much over he had better get used to seeing Eli have much more playoff success than he ever had.

Below average in the playoffs? Maybe if you look at the win-loss record. But his playoff stats are better than Brady's. Look it up. So that whole argument is moot. You can't penalize peyton for what the team did, when his playoff stats are superior to Brady's.

[Tymaster]

There is a certain poster in this thread who is lacking a logic chip. Jesus effing Christ, P13 has sunk to a new low.

[poizond13]

Here's all the fucking logic you need:

Career PLAYOFF Qb Rating:

Manning- 88.4
Brady- 85.7

Wait, wait, let me guess... But Brady won more games!!!1!1!1111

That may be the case. But I'll venture to say that the Patriots winning more playoff games than us is probably not the fault of the QB with the higher rating in those games. Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with the other 52 men on the rosters.

There's plenty of idiots who don't understand the game. But the numbers don't lie and they will always tell the true story.

[SkyDog112046]

Here's all the fucking logic you need:

Career PLAYOFF Qb Rating:

Manning- 88.4
Brady- 85.7

Wait, wait, let me guess... But Brady won more games!!!1!1!1111

That may be the case. But I'll venture to say that the Patriots winning more playoff games than us is probably not the fault of the QB with the higher rating in those games. Maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with the other 52 men on the rosters.

There's plenty of idiots who don't understand the game. But the numbers don't lie and they will always tell the true story.

Aggregate QB rating doesn't tell the whole story. If it was something like 108.4 to 85.7 then maybe you'd have a case, but those numbers are close enough that you have to look deeper. How about clutch performance?

When Brady played in big games he was able to get his team down the field to score the points necessary to win. Even in the Superbowl they lost Brady had put up a point scoring drive with less than 2 minutes to go that the defense subsequently lost. You can't blame that on him. He led scoring drives to give his team a lead in all 4 Superbowls he appeared in. Now contrast that with Peyton's Pick-6 versus New Orleans. Manning has nobody to blame for that except himself.

Manning is sub .500 in the playoffs and has 1 ring. Brady just tied for the most playoff victories by a QB and has 3 rings. You are fooling yourself if you don't think Manning would swap results with Brady in a heartbeat.

[poizond13]

Both QBs have had their ups and downs in the playoffs. Peyton has led numerous last minute drives and comebacks to lead us to victory. Brady has had lousy performances and failures in the clutch, I.E. throwing a pick in the final minute against the Colts in the 2006 AFCCG.

You can tell me that "Brady won more Super Bowls!11!!111" all you want. That's a moron's logic. Football is a team sport with 53 men on each roster. Thus, your ONLY argument for Brady is a very flawed one.

The playoff and regular season stats favor Manning. Four MVPs stand for themselves. Case closed.

[cantstopthemusic]

You can tell me that "The Colts won more regular season games from 2000-2009!11!!111" all you want. That's a moron's logic.

Fixed.

[bigpaparob74]

He's not even the dominant QB of his era.
Not saying I would necessarily single out one guy, but consider this this...

Since Manning debuted he has set a number of individual records and has an amazing regular season record, with only the New England Patriots putting up a similar record to the Colts over the last 10-12 years. However, he is 9-10 in playoff games.

Also, since he started playing...

The season yardage record has fallen.
So has the season passing TDs record.
One QB has won three Superbowls and made it to five (with a possible fourth title pending).
Another QB has won two Superbowls and made it to three.
Several QBs have thrown for over 5,000 yds

Manning holds none of those records and has matched none of those feats.
Nor does it now look likely he will make it to some of Favre's records.


So yeah, great player, but if his career is over today, he won't be remembered as the greatest, or as truly dominant - given he only once won a Superbowl.. If he comes back and is average, same thing. IF he comes back and takes another title on the back of a big season or two? Then maybe, but he hasn't done that yet and might not be able to.[/quote]

Leave it to a soccer fan to not understand the far superior game of football. This is a TEAM sport. That was clearly exemplified today. Brady and Eli both had mediocre, or in the case of Brady, terrible games. Yet their teams still won. And I'm sure there will still be some idiot out there two years from now saying "Brady beat the Ravens and got them to the Super Bowl." For gods sake, fuck off. It's a team sport. Compare Peyton's individual stats and honors, including 4 MVPs, to anyone from this generation and tell me who stacks up better. I'll wait....[/quote]


I shouldn't be surprised, but look at the contradictions. You talk about football being a team sport and then a few posts later you're spewing off about Manning's individual stats and accomplishments.

[dtmfs]

Manning is sub .500 in the playoffs and has 1 ring. Brady just tied for the most playoff victories by a QB and has 3 rings. You are fooling yourself if you don't think Manning would swap results with Brady in a heartbeat.

I hate to agree with P13 but yeah football is a team sport and rings wouldn't normally matter, however Brady is interesting as He has never played on a stacked team as say Montana's 49ers, Aikmans Cowboys or Bradshaws steelers. IMO all three of those QB's were Good but their legacy's benifitted enormously because of how great their teams were. Brady has more of a right at the top spot IMO based on the fact that in the titles he won, He never had a WR like rice, irvin or swann, or a RB like smith, craig or Harris. He had fucking deon branch and kevin faulk, and though I havent looked at the D's, has he ever had a defense as great as the steel curtain or those 49er defenses?

I fucking hate to say it but Brady already is the best ever.

[Crazy Levi]

I hate to agree with P13 but yeah football is a team sport and rings wouldn't normally matter,

Uhh...but it doesn't work here. As usual, P13 is just throwing as much Indiana corn encrusted shit as he can against the wall and seeing what sticks - and he's actually got some of you morons going along with it.

All season long - when his pathetic washed up soon to be basement dwelling for the rest of the decade Colts were going 0-13 - he was telling us "No team can recover from losing Peyton! When he's back next year, we IS GOING TO DA SUPER DUPER BOWL!!!"

Ummm....so Peyton ISN'T the team...it's a team game....but they go to the Super Bowl with him and 0-13 without him?

Yeah, that makes a whole lotta fucking sense.

It's NOT a team game - it's all about Peyton - when the Colts are the worst team in football. But his terrible playoff record - and make no mistake, it's really, really bad - is suddenly because it's a "team game man."

Fuck P-13, as usual, and fuck any of you idiots who allow yourselves to drown in his tsunami of bullshit.

The undeniable fact of the fucking matter is that if the Colts are good enough to win their division year after year and make the playoffs what...10 times in 11 years...then they are good enough - the TEAM is good enough- to actually WIN some playoff games instead of having a losing record.

The undeniable fact of the matter is that as far as "great" QBs go, Peyton is strictly second tier. He's behind Joe Montana. He's behind Tom Brady. He's behind Terry Bradshaw. He's behind John Elway...He's behind Ben Rothlesberger...because these guys WON in the fucking playoffs, and these guys WON more than one super bowl when given the chance.

Peyton was a great QB who more often than not simply could NOT get it done in the clutch, when it mattered. He couldn't win consistiently in the playoffs. That's why Brady is going to his 5th Super Bowl while Peyton went to 2 and will never go again.

Peyton Manning has the same number of Super Bowl wins as Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Mark Rypien. Wow...legendary.