NFL 2011 Thread

[Tymaster]

I'm not going all gusto here...but I'm sure the Saints will beat the 49ers....and then when it comes to GB, it will at least be very good game.

Green Bay are very beatable, and I think Aaron Rodgers may have been proven to be a system QB. I just can't simply fathom a Green Bay game being in Green Bay, being a disadvantage to Green Bay. I think that any of the teams of the NFC can beat Green Bay. That's why it's called The Playoffs.

[tin00can]

Norv Turner retained! Glad I'm not a Chargers fan.

As a Chargers fan, let me express how I feel through pictures:

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

Hey, Andy Reid is coming back too.

And LOLOL at Machado providing playoff commentary. STFU with that shit.

[Space Bear]

WTF, I hope you won't mind me borrowing your sig pic to emphasize the building excitement surrounding P13 and his beloved Colts...

[johnk5150]

While I agree with your logic, I just can't fathom any scenario where playing in Green Bay hurts the Packers. That whole town lives, eats, breathes, and shits, the Pack. Plus, despite a mild winter (that is barely a week old) Green Bay is still a cold ass lake town compared to the SF and NO.

Where were they when mike vick's Falcons came to town a few years back. Anyone can lose in the playoffs. Ask Lickety.

[SkyDog112046]

So it turns out that Manning and Polian were butting heads regarding the direction of the Colts and that Polian had serious doubts about Manning's ability to come back. Which would leave one to believe that Indy was either going to part ways with Manning or get him to renegotiate his deal before Irsay stepped in. Irsay wanted to get rid of Chris Polian more than anything because he didn't like him or trust him to run the team going forward and Bill Polian was was let go for his treatment of Manning(although Manning won't throw him under the bus the way he has done to his teammates).

Irsay said "When you see something that you know is going to have greatness with your franchise, you go after it. That is always the way I’ve been," he said. "When I’ve talked about pillars of a franchise, quarterback, general manager and head coach, if you have a chance to get a great one, you get it, because there are not a lot of great ones. So you do what you have to do to try to get some of those pillars in place." He has also gone on record saying he felt Manning had one more Superbowl run left in him.

[johnk5150]

Irsay said "When you see something that you know is going to have greatness with your franchise, you go after it. That is always the way I’ve been," he said. "When I’ve talked about pillars of a franchise, quarterback, general manager and head coach, if you have a chance to get a great one, you get it, because there are not a lot of great ones. So you do what you have to do to try to get some of those pillars in place." He has also gone on record saying he felt Manning had one more Superbowl run left in him.

If I'm a Colts fan I'm going to need a little more than a hunch. They're going to suck for a long time if he's wrong.

[chadcroz]

While I agree with your logic, I just can't fathom any scenario where playing in Green Bay hurts the Packers. That whole town lives, eats, breathes, and shits, the Pack. Plus, despite a mild winter (that is barely a week old) Green Bay is still a cold ass lake town compared to the SF and NO.

Where were they when mike vick's Falcons came to town a few years back. Anyone can lose in the playoffs. Ask Lickety.

The Vikings beat them in GB in the playoffs a number of years ago too.

Don't get me wrong, the Pack will be very tough to beat anywhere. I just think they are built more like a dome team than in years past. I haven't broken down their schedule, but I'm not sure they've had a bad weather game yet. It will be interesting to see what happens if they get temps around 0 and a windchill around -15. With that said, NO and SF would probably struggle with that too.

[bane]

San Fran is built more like a cold weather team than GB is this year.

[SkyDog112046]

San Fran is built more like a cold weather team than GB is this year.

Yup. Strong defense, power running game, and game manager QB. But it's one thing to be built for the cold and another thing to be used to playing in the bad elements. I'd still favor GB in an Ice Bowl type situation.

There's one thing I'm hoping for this year. Some inclement weather for at least a couple of the playoff games. With GB and NE holding the homefield advantages at this point there is the potential that the two conference championships could be played in some nasty conditions come January 28th. The frozen tundra of Lambeau Field!

[WTF]

Yup. Strong defense, power running game, and game manager QB. But it's one thing to be built for the cold and another thing to be used to playing in the bad elements. I'd still favor GB in an Ice Bowl type situation.

There's one thing I'm hoping for this year. Some inclement weather for at least a couple of the playoff games. With GB and NE holding the homefield advantages at this point there is the potential that the two conference championships could be played in some nasty conditions come January 28th. The frozen tundra of Lambeau Field!

I love that shit. Even better would be if all the outdoor stadiums were still natural turf.

[poizond13]

So it turns out that Manning and Polian were butting heads regarding the direction of the Colts and that Polian had serious doubts about Manning's ability to come back. Which would leave one to believe that Indy was either going to part ways with Manning or get him to renegotiate his deal before Irsay stepped in. Irsay wanted to get rid of Chris Polian more than anything because he didn't like him or trust him to run the team going forward and Bill Polian was was let go for his treatment of Manning(although Manning won't throw him under the bus the way he has done to his teammates).

Irsay said "When you see something that you know is going to have greatness with your franchise, you go after it. That is always the way I’ve been," he said. "When I’ve talked about pillars of a franchise, quarterback, general manager and head coach, if you have a chance to get a great one, you get it, because there are not a lot of great ones. So you do what you have to do to try to get some of those pillars in place." He has also gone on record saying he felt Manning had one more Superbowl run left in him.

I've heard this theory and I disagree with it. Reason being, it's Jim Irsay's team, always has been. Polian has always been aware, and has publicly acknowledged, that Mr. Irsay makes the final call on all major team decisions. If Irsay insisted on keeping Peyton Manning, Polian would have had to accept it, or resign. There would not have been a power struggle: Mr. Irsay was the boss, Polian the employee. Everybody knows that and it wasn't an issue. Polian never had an issue deferring to Irsay in the past.

Secondly, there's no evidence of any rift between Polian and Manning. It was a rumor not based in reality. They are good friends and the mutual respect between them is immense. They both owe much of their personal successes to each other.

I don't think there's any one reason why Polian was fired. To me it was a bad decision. But if you had to point to one reason, it was probably Polian's lack of support within the organization. Some say he lost the locker room and many others in the organization because of his polarizing personality. A lot of people dislike him. He's universally hated by local media and most fans. Most will say, and I agree, that he is arrogant and condescending in some aspects. For those reasons, he reportedly lost much of his influence in the organization. But to me none of those things should matter. He's a football executive. His people skills shouldn't matter. He's done a good job running the team and his talent evaluation abilities are second to none. We will miss him.

[HMJ]

[MurrayFiend]

Yeah, like Detroit's gonna do anything. But good luck to N.O. past that point.

[Rageman]

Pretty much every QB drafted ahead of Andy Dalton has a strong arm.

I wonder how many of those franchises are second guessing passing on Dalton because he didn't have as strong of an arm as Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

[SkyDog112046]

Pretty much every QB drafted ahead of Andy Dalton has a strong arm.

I wonder how many of those franchises are second guessing passing on Dalton because he didn't have as strong of an arm as Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

It's to early to fully evaluate QB's taken in the 2011 draft. Some guys take longer to develop and others could be one year wonders. In most cases it takes about 3 years to know what they are really going to be.

[bane]

Pretty much every QB drafted ahead of Andy Dalton has a strong arm.

I wonder how many of those franchises are second guessing passing on Dalton because he didn't have as strong of an arm as Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder?

It's to early to fully evaluate QB's taken in the 2011 draft. Some guys take longer to develop and others could be one year wonders. In most cases it takes about 3 years to know what they are really going to be.

If that's the case, how do you come to the conclusion that Cleveland needs to move on from McCoy so soon?

[Redman77]

Don't question him, he's got an endorsement deal with the NFL network.

[SkyDog112046]

If that's the case, how do you come to the conclusion that Cleveland needs to move on from McCoy so soon?

It appears he doesn't have the tools to be an effective NFL QB. He's had two seasons and 21 games to show what he can do,(20 TDs, 20 INTs, and a 74.5 QBR) so it's not like giving up on a rookie with all the tools who is just raw and needs time to develop. He was overhyped in college and a lot of the NFL talent evaluators pegged him to be exactly what he has shown himself to be so far - a guy that should be a career backup. He can probably fix things like footwork and the tendency to stare down receivers, but he isn't going to fix the fact that he is small, fragile, and has a weak arm. Can anyone honestly say they see him turning into a top QB over the next 12 months?

Again we are talking about a 3rd round guy, not someone who was highly touted coming out of school. Cleveland is in a position to significantly upgrade the position by drafting Griffin or moving up for Luck. There are no guarantees but Luck appears NFL ready and Griffin should make a quick transition. Their upsides are much better than McCoy's.

[bane]

He hasn't had much to work with with the right side of that O line and receiver corps. I agree that odds are he probably won't work out, but if I'm Cleveland, I draft O line and a good receiver first.

[SkyDog112046]

He hasn't had much to work with with the right side of that O line and receiver corps. I agree that odds are he probably won't work out, but if I'm Cleveland, I draft O line and a good receiver first.

So you'd use the #4 & #25 on O-line & WR and give McCoy more time even if Indy called and said you could have Luck for #4, #25 & a 3rd rounder? Only to have to go out and find another QB next year if McCoy doesn't pan out as it appears will be the case? In a QB driven league if a potential franchise guy is there for the taking and you don't already have one you have to take them.

[bane]

If Luck is available, I take him. If not, I take Blackmon and O line. Franchise receivers don't grow on trees either.

[SkyDog112046]

If Luck is available, I take him. If not, I take Blackmon and O line. Franchise receivers don't grow on trees either.

Excellent receivers are easier to get than excellent quarterbacks. It's a fact. Ever see an NFL grading sheet where they give players a 1-100 rating by their position? There are three times as many receivers graded 88+ than any other position on the field. Pass rusher(can be D-line or LB), left tackle, and quarterback are the positions with the fewest guys rated over 90. And it makes sense when you consider that most receivers are just slightly taller than average height with good speed and good hands while those other positions require players who are very big, athletic and quick. The law of genetic averages says there are more candidates for receivers than those other positions.

If you were building a team from scratch right now and had your choice of Rodgers/Brees or Calvin Johnson/"Your favorite receiver" who would you pick? A top receiver touches the ball 8-10 times a game, every QB touches the ball 60 times and makes 30-35 passing attempts. You have to go QB. You can get very good receivers later on and a great QB can make decent receivers look very good(Manning did it in Indy, Brady won 3 SBs with average at best receivers).

Check out this article from Cold hard Football Facts:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Ar ... n_Law.html

I won't post the entire article, just some highlights:
ONE – Wide receivers, for all their eye-catching flash and dash, are little more than shiny ornaments on the hood of an NFL offense. Oh, sure, they're nice to have. But they don't necessarily make your offense any better – and they rarely if ever make your team any better.

TWO – You should add a flashy wide receiver only when all the other pieces of a great team are in place: a great driver (the quarterback), some sporty tires that provide plenty of traction (the offensive line and ground game), a powerful motor (the defense) and a great transmission (special teams) that allows you to change gears quickly and effectively.

THREE – Even the greatest receivers of all time can make a big impact only when all those pieces are in place, and even then the impact is largely overstated. Even the great Jerry Rice, for example, touched the ball just four to five times per game. So the impact of even the greatest at the position is minimal compared with the impact of a certain position that touches the ball on every offensive snap. And remember, Rice did not make the 49ers a great team. He was drafted by the 18-1 defending Super Bowl champ 49ers in 1985.

[johnk5150]

San Fran is built more like a cold weather team than GB is this year.

Yup. Strong defense, power running game, and game manager QB. But it's one thing to be built for the cold and another thing to be used to playing in the bad elements. I'd still favor GB in an Ice Bowl type situation.

I thought the same thing until Montana's 49ers came to Chicago in the 89 NFC championship game and kicked the living shit out of us 'Bear Weather'.

[bane]

Cleveland isn't building a team from scratch. They have a solid defense with some issues in the secondary, a couple of solid running backs, a young but serviceable QB, a shit o line and nobody to throw the ball to. Top ranked draft QBs are a huge risk. Top ranked wide receivers aren't as much. If Blackmon is off the board, maybe they take a shot with RGIII, but I'm taking Blackmon if he's there over anybody else except Andrew Luck.

[Tymaster]

Cleveland isn't building a team from scratch. They have a solid defense with some issues in the secondary, a couple of solid running backs, a young but serviceable QB, a shit o line and nobody to throw the ball to. Top ranked draft QBs are a huge risk. Top ranked wide receivers aren't as much. If Blackmon is off the board, maybe they take a shot with RGIII, but I'm taking Blackmon if he's there over anybody else except Andrew Luck.

Whether it be through the draft or free agency, Colt McCoy will officially "face competition" for the starting job. Take that as you will.

[Machado]

Cleveland isn't building a team from scratch. They have a solid defense with some issues in the secondary, a couple of solid running backs, a young but serviceable QB, a shit o line and nobody to throw the ball to. Top ranked draft QBs are a huge risk. Top ranked wide receivers aren't as much. If Blackmon is off the board, maybe they take a shot with RGIII, but I'm taking Blackmon if he's there over anybody else except Andrew Luck.

The Browns should have never of drafted Colt in the 1st place. How any GM or talent scout would define Colt as a legit NFL starter is lying.
The guy has back-up written all over him.

[SkyDog112046]

Cleveland isn't building a team from scratch. They have a solid defense with some issues in the secondary, a couple of solid running backs, a young but serviceable QB, a shit o line and nobody to throw the ball to. Top ranked draft QBs are a huge risk. Top ranked wide receivers aren't as much. If Blackmon is off the board, maybe they take a shot with RGIII, but I'm taking Blackmon if he's there over anybody else except Andrew Luck.

The Browns should have never of drafted Colt in the 1st place. How any GM or talent scout would define Colt as a legit NFL starter is lying.
The guy has back-up written all over him.

I think McCoy was a reach in the 3rd round but he was worthy of taking a flyer with a late round pick. Teams need decent backups and he can be a guy who can step in if the starter goes down for a few weeks. Chicago or Indy would have liked having him on the bench when their QBs went down. But I agree with you that he'll never be a legitimate NFL starter.

[bane]

Cleveland isn't building a team from scratch. They have a solid defense with some issues in the secondary, a couple of solid running backs, a young but serviceable QB, a shit o line and nobody to throw the ball to. Top ranked draft QBs are a huge risk. Top ranked wide receivers aren't as much. If Blackmon is off the board, maybe they take a shot with RGIII, but I'm taking Blackmon if he's there over anybody else except Andrew Luck.

Whether it be through the draft or free agency, Colt McCoy will officially "face competition" for the starting job. Take that as you will.

Sure. I'm not defending McCoy. I just think the Browns can get where they want faster by spending the draft in other areas. I'd fully expect them to bring in a vet QB.

[SkyDog112046]

Sure. I'm not defending McCoy. I just think the Browns can get where they want faster by spending the draft in other areas. I'd fully expect them to bring in a vet QB.

Everything hinges on the definition of "get where they want". If it's just a case of wanting to make a playoff run then they can bring in some veterans and hope for a wild card spot. But it will most likely be a one-and-done scenario. If they just want to be "competitive", that is try to win 8-10 games a year for the next 4-5 years then they can stick with McCoy and build around him. But if they want to be very good for long time with a couple of seasons contending for a Superbowl they need a young franchise QB.

Look at the teams that have been consistently good for at least 4-5 seasons and gotten a SB over the past 7-8 years and they all have a franchise QB. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Rapistberger are winning championships and making serious playoff runs year in and year out. The game managers haven't won shit over that time, and unless your team counts a single playoff win every couple of years as being successful then it's not a model you want to follow.