NFL 2011 Thread

[cantstopthemusic]

Can you find a pro who says being a great individual player with amazing stats and records is more important then getting a ring? I'd like to read/hear that.

This is very much a lightning rod issue. It's like trying to change someone else's viewpoint about abortion if it's different from yours. We both know we're right and the other guy is a tard.

Peyton has been FAR MORE consistent over the length of his entire career than Eli. Subtract Eli's 2 best seasons and his remaining stats are pretty average. If Eli doesn't win (at least) another Super Bowl he probably doesn't make the HOF. Peyton is already a shoo-in. Most likely first ballot.

[Space Bear]

"INDIANAPOLIS — Chris Doleman is not one of the four Pro Football Hall of Fame finalists who won a Super Bowl. He doesn't believe that should affect his chances of being elected to the shrine.

Nor does Troy Aikman.

Doleman terrorized quarterbacks and running backs as a defensive end for the Vikings, Falcons and 49ers for 15 seasons. He led the NFL in sacks in 1989 with 21 on his way to 150½ sacks, fourth all-time when he retired.

Unlike Charles Haley, Bill Parcells, Jerome Bettis and Ed DeBartolo Jr. among the 17 finalists who will learn Saturday if they are voted into the hall, Doleman never got to the NFL's biggest stage.

"Yes, it can hurt me and it's unfair, absolutely," Doleman said Friday. "I'd like to think the voters look at this and say, 'Let's take the Super Bowl out of it.' These guys were such great players that if you placed them on that particular team, would it have won the Super Bowl? Can you take a Super Bowl player and put him on a team I played on and is he a difference maker?"

Oddly enough, Mr. All World 5 ring Charles Haley didn't make into the HOF while the ringless Doleman and Curtis Martin did, I guess Cris Carter won't be on the voting commitee anytime soon.

Yes, great players are still great even if they don't win a championship. And of course they'd argue it in the way you just presented it. I screwed myself by wording my request wrong, so what the hell, here goes again... find me a pro who says he personally would rather have all those stats instead of a ring.

With my luck you probably already have a link to Marino saying exactly that, but I'm already all the way out on the plank, might as well jump while I'm here...

[SkyDog112046]

What Eli is lacking that all other great QBs have is at least one dominating season. He still needs that 14-2 year where he picks teams apart week after week and is the MVP or at least one of the top finalists for that award. All the other elite QBs would have been considered the top QB in the game for at least one season and would have been considered among the best at their position for 4-5 years. Eli had a good year, but he still needs to make the case that he's one of the best.

[NeverSurrender]

Who cares what the hacks and ESPN thinks. And too much attention is paid to how many super bowls you have won.

Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton or Moon never waon shit and are still better than 99 percent of NFL qbs in the history of the league.

[dtmfs]

With my luck you probably already have a link to Marino saying exactly that, but I'm already all the way out on the plank, might as well jump while I'm here...

Marino parodied himself in little nicky about how far he'd go to win a ring , Of course He'd want one but I don't believe he ever said He'd take all his stats over a ring but he's hinted at it. He's pretty content with what He did and should be. I don't think he's the best ever, I used to, Ironically I think Brady is, unlike your montanas, Bradshaws and Aikmans, Brady won 3 super bowls on teams that were nowhere near as good as the other dynasties, He's broken records etc. I hate saying that cuz I hate the fucker.

[dtmfs]

What Eli is lacking that all other great QBs have is at least one dominating season. He still needs that 14-2 year where he picks teams apart week after week and is the MVP or at least one of the top finalists for that award. All the other elite QBs would have been considered the top QB in the game for at least one season and would have been considered among the best at their position for 4-5 years. Eli had a good year, but he still needs to make the case that he's one of the best.

Pretty much, what he's proved is he's one clutch mother fucker.

[bane]

With my luck you probably already have a link to Marino saying exactly that, but I'm already all the way out on the plank, might as well jump while I'm here...

Marino parodied himself in little nicky about how far he'd go to win a ring , Of course He'd want one but I don't believe he ever said He'd take all his stats over a ring but he's hinted at it. He's pretty content with what He did and should be. I don't think he's the best ever, I used to, Ironically I think Brady is, unlike your montanas, Bradshaws and Aikmans, Brady won 3 super bowls on teams that were nowhere near as good as the other dynasties, He's broken records etc. I hate saying that cuz I hate the fucker.

The same thing that is elevating Eli in a lot of minds is what knocks Brady down a few pegs for me. He's lost two of them now.

[NeverSurrender]

With my luck you probably already have a link to Marino saying exactly that, but I'm already all the way out on the plank, might as well jump while I'm here...

Marino parodied himself in little nicky about how far he'd go to win a ring , Of course He'd want one but I don't believe he ever said He'd take all his stats over a ring but he's hinted at it. He's pretty content with what He did and should be. I don't think he's the best ever, I used to, Ironically I think Brady is, unlike your montanas, Bradshaws and Aikmans, Brady won 3 super bowls on teams that were nowhere near as good as the other dynasties, He's broken records etc. I hate saying that cuz I hate the fucker.

The same thing that is elevating Eli in a lot of minds is what knocks Brady down a few pegs for me. He's lost two of them now.

Elway lost 3 and he's the best qb who ever lived.

Who that played in more than 1 hasn't lost 1? Forgive me if I miss one, this is off the top of my head.

Starr
Plunkett
Bradshaw
Montana
Aikman

I'd say only one of those guys could even be considered as better than Elway.

[johnk5150]

"The greatest Manning in the Manning family."
- Chris Carter describing Eli on ESPN just a few minutes ago

I'm not trying to take anything away from Eli, and he's a helluva lot better than I thought He would be but Chris Carter is an idiot and like So many experts jumping the gun just a tad. He has the potential to pass his brother but He sure as fuck hasent done it by winning one more title than Peyton. He has a few more seasons like this and he probably will with the sissified rules, then Yeah he'll pass him.

I bet all 3 Mannings would say their mom is the greatest Manning having put up with a life of supporting a ridiculous amount of football.

[bane]

Elway lost 3 and he's the best qb who ever lived.

Who that played in more than 1 hasn't lost 1? Forgive me if I miss one, this is off the top of my head.

Starr
Plunkett
Bradshaw
Montana
Aikman

I'd say only one of those guys could even be considered as better than Elway.

[/quote] Montana never lost a Super Bowl to my knowledge.

[NeverSurrender]

None of those guys did, that's my point. Elway lost 3 and the only person on that list that anybody would argue was better than Elway is Montana.

[bane]

None of those guys did, that's my point. Elway lost 3 and the only person on that list that anybody would argue was better than Elway is Montana.

Fair enough. Elway was great, but Montana was better for the same reasons that he was better than Brady.

[NeverSurrender]

None of those guys did, that's my point. Elway lost 3 and the only person on that list that anybody would argue was better than Elway is Montana.

Fair enough. Elway was great, but Montana was better for the same reasons that he was better than Brady.

I couldn't disagree more. If you gave Elway, Rice, Craig, Taylor, Brent Jones, that o-line and that sytem, Instead of Sammy Winder, Ricky Nattiel, and fuck I don't even remember the tight end's name or any of the 0-lineman.

And that's not a knock on Montana. But Elway had it all, imo.

But the point is, losing super bowls doesn't make a qb worse than one who never lost one. Brady had made five and won 3, that is amazing. And I'm not even saying Eli isn't better, I just don't think one stat says it all.

I think most qbs today are overrated. They get all the credit, while their teams get very little.

[johnk5150]

None of those guys did, that's my point. Elway lost 3 and the only person on that list that anybody would argue was better than Elway is Montana.

Fair enough. Elway was great, but Montana was better for the same reasons that he was better than Brady.

Montana wasn't even the best player on his team the years he was kicking ass. I'd still take him on my team.

[dtmfs]

Elway was great but alot of people take too much credit away from him for winning those super bowls because of Terrell Davis. Davis Helped but thats not fair to Elway at all, lets not forget he was on his last legs at the time too and played his heart out in those title wins.
I agree 100% with what you said about Elway being on those 49er teams, in fact I remember an article in SI back in the early 90's that said if Elway or Marino were on those teams and Joe was on the broncos or Dolphins, Joe would've ended up selling insurance. Now that's not fair to Joe he was better than that but I see where the guy was coming from, Those niner teams were fucking loaded.

[bane]

None of those guys did, that's my point. Elway lost 3 and the only person on that list that anybody would argue was better than Elway is Montana.

Fair enough. Elway was great, but Montana was better for the same reasons that he was better than Brady.

I couldn't disagree more. If you gave Elway, Rice, Craig, Taylor, Brent Jones, that o-line and that sytem, Instead of Sammy Winder, Ricky Nattiel, and fuck I don't even remember the tight end's name or any of the 0-lineman.

And that's not a knock on Montana. But Elway had it all, imo.

But the point is, losing super bowls doesn't make a qb worse than one who never lost one. Brady had made five and won 3, that is amazing. And I'm not even saying Eli isn't better, I just don't think one stat says it all.

I think most qbs today are overrated. They get all the credit, while their teams get very little.

And my point is that if you're going to elevate Eli because he's won two, you have to use the same consideration for the guy that's lost two. I think Elway was awesome. I think Montana was the best to ever play the game. He had great receivers, but he made the throws. Brady threw the ball behind his receivers all night last night. Still catchable, sure, but if Brady is going to go down as one of the all time greats, he has to make those throws.

[NeverSurrender]

I get that, but I'm not elevating Eli ( I actually really hate this argument).

I'm just saying it's okay to lose a couple super bowls if you won 3.

Also remember Brady had a great defense in his first 3 super bowls, while now his defense is pretty pathetic. Which is why i really hate the whole qb vs qb debate. The qbs who won multiple super bowls all had very good defenses. While the Giants D isn't the greatest in the history of super bowls, they have a much better D than the pats do right now.

It's a team game. Guys like Fouts, Jaworski, Tarkenton, Moon and Ji Kelly never won one, but Jim Mcmahon and Trent Dilfer did. Not really fair, but sports ain't fair, and football is a team game.

[bane]

I get that, but I'm not elevating Eli ( I actually really hate this argument).

I'm just saying it's okay to lose a couple super bowls if you won 3.

Also remember Brady had a great defense in his first 3 super bowls, while now his defense is pretty pathetic. Which is why i really hate the whole qb vs qb debate. The qbs who won multiple super bowls all had very good defenses. While the Giants D isn't the greatest in the history of super bowls, they have a much better D than the pats do right now.

It's a team game. Guys like Fouts, Jaworski, Tarkenton, Moon and Ji Kelly never won one, but Jim Mcmahon and Trent Dilfer did. Not really fair, but sports ain't fair, and football is a team game.

I can agree with that. There are just too many variables. I think Elway is a bit of a special case. You can make a pretty easy argument that the only reason Denver was in those first few Super Bowls at all was because of John Elway. The guy was phenomenal.

[SkyDog112046]

Indianapolis may have sabotaged New England's headsets. They were working in pre-game testing but went out right at kick-off and were intermittent throughout the game. It effected the 12 men on the field play as Pepper Johnson couldn't be heard trying to get Molden off the field. It also effected the final NY TD as Belichick was trying to get his defense to let NY score quicker to give Brady more time to work with. It also cost them a timeout as they couldn't get word from their booth regarding the catch they challenged and Belichick had to rely on what they saw in real time. Note that New York had no problems with their communication system. Also note that this is not the first time New England's communication system has "malfunctioned" while in Indy. Coincidence, perhaps. But given the history between New England and Indy it may have been deliberate

When speaking to 94 WIP’s Angelo Cataldi and The Morning Team on Tuesday, Mike Lombardi of The NFL network says a headphone malfunction delayed a Patriots call from the sideline to allow the Giants to score. “He [Belichick] wanted to [let them score earlier]. All game the frequency of the headsets were going in and out. And it was always messed up. So when they sent to let them score on the first play, they didn’t get the call. And it was happening on the headsets the whole time, this is fact,” Florio said. “The 12 men on the field, they had a miscommunications with the headsets.

[NeverSurrender]

Indianapolis may have sabotaged New England's headsets. They were working in pre-game testing but went out right at kick-off and were intermittent throughout the game. It effected the 12 men on the field play as Pepper Johnson couldn't be heard trying to get Molden off the field. It also effected the final NY TD as Belichick was trying to get his defense to let NY score quicker to give Brady more time to work with. It also cost them a timeout as they couldn't get word from their booth regarding the catch they challenged and Belichick had to rely on what they saw in real time. Note that New York had no problems with their communication system. Also note that this is not the first time New England's communication system has "malfunctioned" while in Indy. Coincidence, perhaps. But given the history between New England and Indy it may have been deliberate

When speaking to 94 WIP’s Angelo Cataldi and The Morning Team on Tuesday, Mike Lombardi of The NFL network says a headphone malfunction delayed a Patriots call from the sideline to allow the Giants to score. “He [Belichick] wanted to [let them score earlier]. All game the frequency of the headsets were going in and out. And it was always messed up. So when they sent to let them score on the first play, they didn’t get the call. And it was happening on the headsets the whole time, this is fact,” Florio said. “The 12 men on the field, they had a miscommunications with the headsets.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Crazy Levi]

Oh shit!!!


Indiocheatolis!!!!

[NeverSurrender]

Every time they lose the media has an excuse for them.

And I love how Brady gets all the credit, but they lose and it's all his wrs fault.

[Tommy]

A good team should have a back-up plan in place for this. And I'm pretty sure everyone does.

[SkyDog112046]

Oh shit!!!


Indiocheatolis!!!!

Yes, exactly what I was getting at. It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game but it has to be more than a coincidence that the communication system Indy provides to other teams frequently malfunctions when New England is in town but not for any other franchise.

Of course Pinhead13 will take Indy to task over this because he hates anything that can fall into the category of cheating. No double standards there, right?

[cantstopthemusic]

A good team should have a back-up plan in place for this. And I'm pretty sure everyone does.

Smoke signals, FTW!

[LAglamrocker]

if thats true, thats awesome!

[Facedown]

You and Pimp can calm the fuck down.
Remember the Broncos getting caught in 2010?

[LAglamrocker]

why team did the cheaters come from?

[poizond13]

Indianapolis may have sabotaged New England's headsets. They were working in pre-game testing but went out right at kick-off and were intermittent throughout the game. It effected the 12 men on the field play as Pepper Johnson couldn't be heard trying to get Molden off the field. It also effected the final NY TD as Belichick was trying to get his defense to let NY score quicker to give Brady more time to work with. It also cost them a timeout as they couldn't get word from their booth regarding the catch they challenged and Belichick had to rely on what they saw in real time. Note that New York had no problems with their communication system. Also note that this is not the first time New England's communication system has "malfunctioned" while in Indy. Coincidence, perhaps. But given the history between New England and Indy it may have been deliberate

When speaking to 94 WIP’s Angelo Cataldi and The Morning Team on Tuesday, Mike Lombardi of The NFL network says a headphone malfunction delayed a Patriots call from the sideline to allow the Giants to score. “He [Belichick] wanted to [let them score earlier]. All game the frequency of the headsets were going in and out. And it was always messed up. So when they sent to let them score on the first play, they didn’t get the call. And it was happening on the headsets the whole time, this is fact,” Florio said. “The 12 men on the field, they had a miscommunications with the headsets.

[MurrayFiend]

Get Randy Moss back. That dude was awesome for the first three quarters of a game when he was trying.