Killeverything's (New)NeverEndingBaseballThread

[johnk5150]

Kill-
This past Sunday night Joe Morgan stated that Robinson Cano is the clear-cut Gold Glove winning 2nd baseman this season.

Clearly he can not be wrong.
This is Joe Morgan we are talking about. A HOF who also played 2nd base.

Robinson Cano is finally having his breakout season ( offensively ).

The irony is that Joe Morgan is arguably the greatest 2B of all-time.

You're correct, Morgan is probaby the greatest 2B of all-time. If not, he's in the top 3.

I think if you'd ask Morgan, he'd say he was one of the greatest players of all-time. The next time you're listening to him, he has a really hard time giving 2B'ers any credit or praise. I know for a fact he didn't want Sandberg being elected to the HOF and publicly told the writers not to vote him in on the 1st ballot. Which is insane.

[WOLF]

So who do you guys like for NL MVP? The race between Pujols, Votto, and Gonzalez could be one of the most contested ever.

[johnk5150]

So who do you guys like for NL MVP? The race between Pujols, Votto, and Gonzalez could be one of the most contested ever.

This same question came down in '98 between Sosa/McGwire. The writers chose the player from the team that made the playoffs.

[Machado]

3 teams clinched playoff berths last night.

Yankees
rays
reds(won game on a walk-off HR by bruce)

[johnk5150]

Jesus Christ. Zambrano is 7-0 with a 1.29 ERA since anger management.

I really need an out of town stupid GM to take that contract.

[killeverything]

Jesus Christ. Zambrano is 7-0 with a 1.29 ERA since anger management.

I really need an out of town stupid GM to take that contract.

Did you see the Chicago/San Diego game Monday?

Holy shit that was pitching matchup. Zambrano vs. Staffeur. That was a good game, and Carlos Marmol is fucking unreal.

For the NL MVP so far ( depending a playoff berth ) I go for Votto.

AL my vote would be for Hamilton.

[johnk5150]

Jesus Christ. Zambrano is 7-0 with a 1.29 ERA since anger management.

I really need an out of town stupid GM to take that contract.

Did you see the Chicago/San Diego game Monday?

Holy shit that was pitching matchup. Zambrano vs. Staffeur. That was a good game, and Carlos Marmol is fucking unreal.

For the NL MVP so far ( depending a playoff berth ) I go for Votto.

AL my vote would be for Hamilton.

Which begs the question as Zambrano is so good when he's on. Is he a huge disappointment given everything he's done/been through? As a Cubs fan I can't stand him.

I think I have to go Votto even though it's not Albert's fault the Cardinals choked this year away.

Another question. Who's the greatest right hand hitter of all-time? I'm taking Manny out of the equation now that it's obvious the cheating really helped him.

[killeverything]

Jesus Christ. Zambrano is 7-0 with a 1.29 ERA since anger management.

I really need an out of town stupid GM to take that contract.

Did you see the Chicago/San Diego game Monday?

Holy shit that was pitching matchup. Zambrano vs. Staffeur. That was a good game, and Carlos Marmol is fucking unreal.

For the NL MVP so far ( depending a playoff berth ) I go for Votto.

AL my vote would be for Hamilton.

Which begs the question as Zambrano is so good when he's on. Is he a huge disappointment given everything he's done/been through? As a Cubs fan I can't stand him.

I think I have to go Votto even though it's not Albert's fault the Cardinals choked this year away.

Another question. Who's the greatest right hand hitter of all-time? I'm taking Manny out of the equation now that it's obvious the cheating really helped him.

Interesting topic you brought up.

Dealing with Manny ( who I will always love ), has to be a lot like dealing with Zambrano. So fucking good when he's on, but when he's not? I can't recall Zambrano ever faking an injury, or sitting out ( in the Playoff race ) against really good pitchers ( ie. Felix Hernandez ).

The dilemma IMO is since PEDs. I find it hard to vote for any current hitter. Prior to the investigation, and Manny being nailed. It's arguable that he was the greatest. Now?

We can just take the easy way out I guess. Hank Aaron ( RHH ), Willie "the greatest player of all-time" Mays ( RHH ). Joe Dimaggio was a RHH. Who wasn't as good as Williams left. Roberto Clemente had a rep for being an incredible RHH. Frank Thomas?

I can't think of anyone. A lot of those guys ( okay all of them, but "Big Hurt" were before my time ), so I didn't get to see them play.

Still I can't think of anyone that was more menacing at the plate than than Manny Ramirez.

Question: "Who's the greatest hitter you've ever seen?" "Manny Ramirez. There isn't even a close second" - Curt Schilling

I'm curious everyone else's opinion. Let's get Yonkel in here.

[SkyDog112046]

Interesting topic you brought up.

Dealing with Manny ( who I will always love ), has to be a lot like dealing with Zambrano. So fucking good when he's on, but when he's not? I can't recall Zambrano ever faking an injury, or sitting out ( in the Playoff race ) against really good pitchers ( ie. Felix Hernandez ).

The dilemma IMO is since PEDs. I find it hard to vote for any current hitter. Prior to the investigation, and Manny being nailed. It's arguable that he was the greatest. Now?

We can just take the easy way out I guess. Hank Aaron ( RHH ), Willie "the greatest player of all-time" Mays ( RHH ). Joe Dimaggio was a RHH. Who wasn't as good as Williams left. Roberto Clemente had a rep for being an incredible RHH. Frank Thomas?

I can't think of anyone. A lot of those guys ( okay all of them, but "Big Hurt" were before my time ), so I didn't get to see them play.

Still I can't think of anyone that was more menacing at the plate than than Manny Ramirez.

Question: "Who's the greatest hitter you've ever seen?" "Manny Ramirez. There isn't even a close second" - Curt Schilling

I'm curious everyone else's opinion. Let's get Yonkel in here.

Going by hitters that I've seen I'm going with Jim Rice. From 1975 - 1980 he was as good a right handed hitter (clean) as there ever was. Mike Schmidt was awesome and you'd have to include his name in the conversation. George Foster too.

I saw Mays but he was a mere shadow of himself by then. I saw Aaron but as great as he was I don't think he was menacing. My grandfather used to say that Jimmie Foxx was the greatest right handed hitter he had ever seen but that was way before my time. So I'm going to say that when I think of menacing right handed hitters I think of Rice, Schmidt, and Foster.

[dtmfs]

anyone watch ken burns the tenth inning last night and tonight?? Great shit as always yet I was a little disappointed they neglected to mention some positives of the last decade, not enough on pujols or halladay, way too much bonds, I expected it but they could've at least trimmed 15 minutes off the assholes BS to talk about roy or albert, great pieces on ichiro and pedro tonight though.

[tin00can]

Kind of interesting that Ken showed the Yankees applauding when Cal Ripken broke the consecutive-games record, when it happened when the Orioles were playing the Angels. And by interesting I mean "fuck you very much, Ken."

[dtmfs]

Kind of interesting that Ken showed the Yankees applauding when Cal Ripken broke the consecutive-games record, when it happened when the Orioles were playing the Angels. And by interesting I mean "fuck you very much, Ken."

Aside from Bonds, The whole thing was pretty yankee heavy, but WTF isen't when it comes to baseball? it's fucking irritating as hell, this is why people hate the yankees, not the 27 titles, it's fucking overkill, Fuck them I hope they get swept in the first round. That's another thing, it payed more attention to yankee losses or series' against the sox than the fact they got the shit kicked out of them by the marlins in 03', what'd they show one pic of the marlins celebrating?

[WOLF]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

[SkyDog112046]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah, that sucks. Baseball could have worked in Montreal if there was a new stadium. Tampa just made the playoffs and can only pull around 12,000 fans for a game. I'll bet that a playoff bound Montreal team could pretty much fill a stadium. I fucking hate Bud Selig...

[WOLF]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah, that sucks. Baseball could have worked in Montreal if there was a new stadium. Tampa just made the playoffs and can only pull around 12,000 fans for a game. I'll bet that a playoff bound Montreal team could pretty much fill a stadium. I fucking hate Bud Selig...

The Expos drew 2,000,000 + throughout the 80's in a shitty stadium on the wrong side of town. Attendance only dwindled when MLB turned their back on the team. Down the stretch in 1994, before the strike, they were pulling in 30,000 and were on their way to 40,000 had things continued the way they were going. That team was a juggernaut.

[Machado]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah, that sucks. Baseball could have worked in Montreal if there was a new stadium. Tampa just made the playoffs and can only pull around 12,000 fans for a game. I'll bet that a playoff bound Montreal team could pretty much fill a stadium. I fucking hate Bud Selig...

The Expos drew 2,000,000 + throughout the 80's in a shitty stadium on the wrong side of town. Attendance only dwindled when MLB turned their back on the team. Down the stretch in 1994, before the strike, they were pulling in 30,000 and were on their way to 40,000 had things continued the way they were going. That team was a juggernaut.

The MLB network aired a special about this very subject. I saw the program last month.
Plenty of interviews with Montreal officials, former Expos front office personnel, former players, etc....
Baseball indeed turned their back on the city and as a result, the fans did not show up for the games.

[killeverything]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

Pedro said after winning the series in Boston in '04, that he dedicates it to the Montreal fans. Since they would've won the whole thing if it wasn't for the strike.

[Machado]

6 years ago today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFX92ALq ... playnext=1



It still feels like a dagger to my heart and brings a tear to my eye.

Pedro said after winning the series in Boston in '04, that he dedicates it to the Montreal fans. Since they would've won the whole thing if it wasn't for the strike.

pedro did indeed say that in front of the t.v. cameras.
this footage was included in the MLB Network special I previously mentioned.

[SkyDog112046]

I heard an interview with Theo Epstein. He spent the entire interview going back and forth between saying he wouldn't discuss anything related to the future and how this season had been a disappointment. He kept trotting out stat geek numbers and saying that runs prevented was an issue.

And yet not once did he admit that he messed up last off season and explain how he was going to fix the team for 2011. He also bristled when it was suggested that 2010-2011 were bridge years and that the team was simply waiting for players in AAA to be ready for the majors.

Last off season was one colossal fuck up after the other for Theo. At least have the balls to admit it.

John Lackey - it was known that he had a terrible record in Fenway and yet Theo gave him a boatload of money to come here. I didn't like the move when they signed him and unfortunately they are stuck with him.

Mike Cameron - Signing a guy in his late 30's to play center field was asking for it. Shock of all shocks - he spent the year injured. Stupid move #2.

Marco Scutaro - Why does Theo screw up short stop so badly? Alex Gonzales was the best defensive SS this team has had since Rooster, and yet the asshat let him go twice and then brought in a career backup who had one good season. SS is one of those positions where what you see with your own eyes is more important than what the stats say. Gonzo & Pedroia made an excellent middle infield tandem, and there was no reason to mess with that chemistry. Stupid move #3

Adrain Beltre - The only move I liked in the off season and the only one Theo got right, although it would have been nice to give him 2 years instead of giving them to Cameron.

Josh Beckett - Whay re-sign him for the money they gave him when all indicators point to Beckett being on the downside? $35M+ is a lot of money to have tied up in two guys who are supposed to be top of the rotation and yet are really #4 & #5 material at this point. Stupid move #4 and totally unnecessary.

I won't even mention what a shit job he did on the bullpen.

Also it was really a nice touch the way the front office jerked around Mike Lowell. The guy performed, he played hurt, he was excellent in the clubhouse, he was their most recent WS MVP, and he showed nothing but class the entire time. Don't think that BS will go unnoticed by the other players.

I'm going to grade him a D for this year. He would have been much better off playing the kids and saving money for future free agents.

[Machado]

anyone watch ken burns the tenth inning last night and tonight?? Great shit as always yet I was a little disappointed they neglected to mention some positives of the last decade, not enough on pujols or halladay, way too much bonds, I expected it but they could've at least trimmed 15 minutes off the assholes BS to talk about roy or albert, great pieces on ichiro and pedro tonight though.

i read about this program here and then i heard my local sports talk radio discuss the show.
soon as i got home, i checked the t.v. listings and could not find a date/time when the program would be airing again.

[killeverything]

Don't think that BS will go unnoticed by the other players.

If you recall when Boston was going to pickup Traitor off waivers from Detroit. He said how the FO treated Millah and the rest of the '04 team, was one of the reasons he didn't want to return.

They've already noticed.

The more things change......the more they stay the same.

Duquette/Theo. Meet the new boss.....same as the old boss. '04 and '07 kicked ass though.

[Machado]

Yankees begin a 3 games series at fenway tonight. The weather forecast calls for 80% chance of rain.
Imagine having to play a double-header this weekend to make up for a rained out game this evening?

[SkyDog112046]

Yankees begin a 3 games series at fenway tonight. The weather forecast calls for 80% chance of rain.
Imagine having to play a double-header this weekend to make up for a rained out game this evening?

Not just rain, but torrential downpours. It's currently raining steadily and I can hear thunder in the distance. And it is humid as hell too. All the papers in my office are curling up. It's going to be tough to try to get tonight's game in. But Saturday and Sunday are supposed to be beautiful.

[SkyDog112046]

Don't think that BS will go unnoticed by the other players.

If you recall when Boston was going to pickup Traitor off waivers from Detroit. He said how the FO treated Millah and the rest of the '04 team, was one of the reasons he didn't want to return.

They've already noticed.

The more things change......the more they stay the same.

Duquette/Theo. Meet the new boss.....same as the old boss. '04 and '07 kicked ass though.

Looking at Theo overall he has done an excellent job with the farm system. But how much of that was due to the guys who were in charge of player development and are currently elsewhere? I think Lucchino is the one who should get credit for the 2 rings. Certainly the '07 one since he made moves Theo was against while Theo was away from the team.

You are right about the Duquette comparison. Duquette is the one that for the most part built that team that won in 2004. Lowe, Varitek, Pedro, Manny, Youk, Garciaparra, Wakefield, and Hanley Ramirez were all DD guys. And he had a knack for pissing off everyone who negotiated with him.

So what grade would you give Theo for 2010? Do you agree with the D that I gave him?

[Machado]

Yankees begin a 3 games series at fenway tonight. The weather forecast calls for 80% chance of rain.
Imagine having to play a double-header this weekend to make up for a rained out game this evening?

Not just rain, but torrential downpours. It's currently raining steadily and I can hear thunder in the distance. And it is humid as hell too. All the papers in my office are curling up. It's going to be tough to try to get tonight's game in. But Saturday and Sunday are supposed to be beautiful.

Son of a bitch.
ESPN NY made a brief statement earlier regarding the game will be played.
The tarp is down at the field, but the radio station said the game will be played.
I find it hard to believe based on the weather forecast and your input.

[SkyDog112046]

Yankees begin a 3 games series at fenway tonight. The weather forecast calls for 80% chance of rain.
Imagine having to play a double-header this weekend to make up for a rained out game this evening?

Not just rain, but torrential downpours. It's currently raining steadily and I can hear thunder in the distance. And it is humid as hell too. All the papers in my office are curling up. It's going to be tough to try to get tonight's game in. But Saturday and Sunday are supposed to be beautiful.

Son of a bitch.
ESPN NY made a brief statement earlier regarding the game will be played.
The tarp is down at the field, but the radio station said the game will be played.
I find it hard to believe based on the weather forecast and your input.

They are currently saying heavy rain through the evening commute with the storm moving out around midnight. They were forecasting flooding for low lying areas of Boston today, so even if they had the tarp on and it stops raining that outfield is going to be soggy. I sure as hell don't want to see anyone get hurt on a bad field.

One thing to keep in mind about the current Sox ownership. They almost never cancel a game until at least an hour after the start time. They want people to drive in, hang out and buy stuff - then they cancel. They are notorious for that shit. They very well may get the game in with some delays, but it's going to be sloppy.

[killeverything]

Don't think that BS will go unnoticed by the other players.

If you recall when Boston was going to pickup Traitor off waivers from Detroit. He said how the FO treated Millah and the rest of the '04 team, was one of the reasons he didn't want to return.

They've already noticed.

The more things change......the more they stay the same.

Duquette/Theo. Meet the new boss.....same as the old boss. '04 and '07 kicked ass though.

Looking at Theo overall he has done an excellent job with the farm system. But how much of that was due to the guys who were in charge of player development and are currently elsewhere? I think Lucchino is the one who should get credit for the 2 rings. Certainly the '07 one since he made moves Theo was against while Theo was away from the team.

You are right about the Duquette comparison. Duquette is the one that for the most part built that team that won in 2004. Lowe, Varitek, Pedro, Manny, Youk, Garciaparra, Wakefield, and Hanley Ramirez were all DD guys. And he had a knack for pissing off everyone who negotiated with him.

So what grade would you give Theo for 2010? Do you agree with the D that I gave him?

I say C to C-. I loved the Beltre signing. I also feel that if the injuries didn't pile up like they did, and the team had more of a fire in their belly ( like Philly ), there could possibly be a race in the East between the 3 teams.

Now the Lackey signing, they needed another player after Holliday decided to stay with St. Louis. They signed him. He's been a #3-4 pitcher. If Lester, Beckett and Buchholz do their job, then he's serviceable. Although a little over-paid.

That leads to Beckett. I've made no secret that I'm a fan of the guy. His teamates are fans of the guy. His back injury never recovered. Here's Theo's take:

The [back] injury really cost him. It's hard to say how much it cost his performance before he went down, and then coming back, he clearly wasn't himself all year. He's been very stand-up about it. He's taken a hard look at his performance, taken accountability for it, which is an important first step. Last time he had this type of season was 2006. The last thing he said to me going out the door at the end of the 2006 season was 'I'm going to fix this this winter.' He came back and had a great 2007. He's showing a lot of the same tendencies right now.

It goes with the odd year/even year arguement. Now optimistically I'd like to think we would have two potential number ones heading the rotation, with he and Lester. The Mighty Red Sox SP is still among the best in the game. Things just didn't come together.

People that are better at the analysis stuff than I am, had these peripherals concerning Beckett.

Pitches 1-25
Years BA OBP SA OPS K% BB% HRC BABIP
2007/9 .242 .293 .407 .700 .254 .065 .050 .297
2008/10 .251 .292 .404 .696 .252 .043 .033 .319

Lower HR rate. WTF?

Pitches 26-50
Years BA OBP SA OPS K% BB% HRC BABIP
2007/9 .245 .288 .333 .621 .223 .053 .017 .309
2008/10 .256 .306 .355 .661 .252 .054 .019 .336

Is this random?

Pitches 51-75
Years BA OBP SA OPS K% BB% HRC BABIP
2007/9 .266 .310 .414 .724 .233 .053 .027 .332
2008/10 .279 .314 .461 .775 .219 .048 .048 .329

HR rate increases as does his BABIP

Pitches 76-100
Years BA OBP SA OPS K% BB% HRC BABIP
2007/9 .226 .266 .379 .644 .218 .045 .040 .262
2008/10 .312 .387 .550 .937 .173 .076 .062 .345

Uh oh

Pitches 101+
Years BA OBP SA OPS K% BB% HRC BABIP
2007/9 .237 .307 .421 .728 .228 .071 .058 .272
2008/10 .232 .338 .446 .784 .188 .125 .068 .244

Now looking at the data on fangraphs. I think it's more complex than to just say it was an off year. The jump in ERA from 3.44 to 5.26 to 8.67 through intervals of 25 pitches is alarming. So is it he's not in shape, which leads to his reliance on fastballs, and losing the "break" on his secondary pitches? Or was he over-pitched when he was younger?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Beckett is notoriously stubborn, so maybe this season was a wake-up for him to train differently ( like '06 was for '07 ). We'll see. I'm gonna try not to be all fan boy about it.

Which leads to the BP. That is always a hit or miss situation, and always the hardest thing to predict in baseball. I've made my feelings on Pappelbon known. I'm sick of his shit, and Rivera....the motherfucker ain't.

I think Theo's biggest fuckup was not trading Over-ratedsby Ellsbury when his stock was so fucking high. There's rumors circulating right now that they're going to move him this off-season.

One can only hope.

I love the idea of the team being built around pitching and defense. Unfortunatley the cards just didn't fall into place this year.

So for his "ideals" I give him a B. Execution: C to C-/D

[tin00can]

The Padres gave it a good run but they just didn't have any offense. Hopefully next year they can come back with some more power.

I'm pulling for the Reds in the NL - even with Dusty coaching - and either the Twins or Rays in the AL.

[SkyDog112046]

The Padres gave it a good run but they just didn't have any offense. Hopefully next year they can come back with some more power.

I'm pulling for the Reds in the NL - even with Dusty coaching - and either the Twins or Rays in the AL.

It would be nice to see the Reds get in as they are a nice story. I would say I'd like to see Tampa get in but their fans just don't deserve it. Texas hasn't been in a World Series, so it would be cool to see them get in. Texas vs Cincy could be a fun series.

[johnk5150]

The Padres gave it a good run but they just didn't have any offense. Hopefully next year they can come back with some more power.

I'm pulling for the Reds in the NL - even with Dusty coaching - and either the Twins or Rays in the AL.

Dusty Baker should die of gonnorhea and burn in hell.