Killeverything's (New)NeverEndingBaseballThread

[killeverything]

I am fully prepared to wish Tek well on his retirement.

He wants more money? When we start hitting off tees, I'm all for it. Until then, "thanks Captain."

[Machado]

is there any chance red sox fans
can spin not having tek behind the plate
in a positive way?

if he does not return, that has to be a big blow for the team.

i know you said there will be a period of adjustment and so forth.

i guess tek truly believes the sox need him more than he needs
the sox??

[JakeYonkel]

I would not laugh at a Boston fan that said they're glad he's gone. The guy's an automatic out in the lineup. Not that he's hitting in the middle of the order, or expected to knock in 100 runs, but he's a below average hitter. Even if you believe all the hype about him being an amazing game caller, at the very least with his offensive troubles they're breaking even having him in the lineup.

I'd take a guy that could hit that wasn't as good defensively.

[Machado]

I would not laugh at a Boston fan that said they're glad he's gone. The guy's an automatic out in the lineup. Not that he's hitting in the middle of the order, or expected to knock in 100 runs, but he's a below average hitter. Even if you believe all the hype about him being an amazing game caller, at the very least with his offensive troubles they're breaking even having him in the lineup.

I'd take a guy that could hit that wasn't as good defensively.

jake-
from what i have read about the guy, the red sox staff enjoys throwing to him. i would think the team would sacrafice 1 hitter in the line-up in exchange for his skills as a game caller and his presence behind the plate.
if, if tek is gone, that is a loss for the sox. not on the offensive, but still a loss.
maybe they will sign pudge to a 1 yr deal???

[JakeYonkel]

Tek already agreed to terms, so it doesn't really matter at this point. That one year, $5M deal pales to the 4 year $50M Boras anticipated...

Look, I know much has been made of his ability to handle the staff - and maybe it IS helpful when they've got younger guys in the rotation. But big league veterans like Beckett, Wakefield (who doesn't pitch to him anyway), Penny, Smoltz, etc. don't need somebody like him. Lester, Buchholz, maybe.

[thejuggernaut]

Tek already agreed to terms, so it doesn't really matter at this point. That one year, $5M deal pales to the 4 year $50M Boras anticipated...

Look, I know much has been made of his ability to handle the staff - and maybe it IS helpful when they've got younger guys in the rotation. But big league veterans like Beckett, Wakefield (who doesn't pitch to him anyway), Penny, Smoltz, etc. don't need somebody like him. Lester, Buchholz, maybe.

LOL

[killeverything]

I'd take a guy that could hit that wasn't as good defensively.

His defense is gone to unfortunatley. He can't gun anybody down at second anymore.

As for sacrificining defense for hitters. That's exactly what NY has done the past few years. It hasn't worked in the post-season. I've posted the numbers before, I will again.

We all know that Pitching and Defense win Championships. For example here's also a list of the defense of WS winners and losers:

2003 Marlins -43 MFY -48
2004 Red Sox +13 Cardinals +38
2005 White Sox +52 Astros +50
2006 Cardinals +65 Tigers +15
2007 Red Sox +13 Rockies -3
2008 Phillies +74 Rays +34


I don't have the numbers to also compare the pitching staffs yet. We all know in example Red Sox of 2004 and Marlins of 2003 were heavily favored with pitching.

The numbers are there to suggest a serious trend, that with a few exceptions not on this list. Teams don't generally slug their way to a WS victory. Hardball Times did a study on offense vs. defense a while back. There was one or two teams that just outslugged everybody. I can't recall who exactly ( one was NY though ).

I think sacrificing defense is a big mistake a lot teams make. "Chicks dig the long ball" I guess. defensively with Tek at the plate, there isn't an upgrade anymore unfortunately

[Machado]

well i guess i should thank the sox for signing him for another year.

any weakness the sox has gives the Yankees an advantage.

so tek can't hit anymore
he can't play defense anymore

at least he can receive the ball and toss is back to the pitcher
without incident

[killeverything]

well i guess i should thank the sox for signing him for another year.

any weakness the sox has gives the Yankees an advantage.

so tek can't hit anymore
he can't play defense anymore

at least he can receive the ball and toss is back to the pitcher
without incident

Pretty much.

Although "intangibley" he's untouchable. Intangibles are a very poweful thing. They're the kind of thing that give people like Derek fucking Jeter two Gold Gloves . Tek is supposed to mentor his replacement......and hopefully catch another no-hitter. I'm kind of on the fence about how I feel about this one.

[Machado]

well i guess i should thank the sox for signing him for another year.

any weakness the sox has gives the Yankees an advantage.

so tek can't hit anymore
he can't play defense anymore

at least he can receive the ball and toss is back to the pitcher
without incident

Pretty much.

Although "intangibley" he's untouchable. Intangibles are a very poweful thing. They're the kind of thing that give people like Derek fucking Jeter two Gold Gloves . Tek is supposed to mentor his replacement......and hopefully catch another no-hitter. I'm kind of on the fence about how I feel about this one.

We all know the Yankees DO NOT have a big-time catcher in the minors right now.
Do the sox have one or two?

Oh yeah, intangibles are very powerful. No doubt about that.
Nice Jeter and Gold Glove joke.
This guy is going to come back like a monster at SS at the plate in '09.
The critics woke up a sleeping giant.
He will have worked on his mobility, his core, his range, his quickness.
I can see him making a run at the batting title again in '09.

[JakeYonkel]

We all know the Yankees DO NOT have a big-time catcher in the minors right now.

Look up Francisco Cervelli, and more importantly Jesus Montero

[Machado]

NEW YORK -- The Yankees and right-handed pitcher Brian Bruney avoided arbitration by agreeing Friday to a one-year contract worth $1.25 million.

The deal settled New York's last salary arbitration case and raised its projected Opening Day payroll just above $198 million for 18 players with agreements. The Yankees still must negotiate with Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and others who didn't have enough service time to be eligible for arbitration.

When they exchanged arbitration figures last week, Bruney asked for a raise from $725,000 to $1.55 million, and the Yankees offered $1.1 million.

The 26-year-old right-hander was 3-0 with a 1.73 ERA and one save in 31 relief appearances and one start last year. He was sidelined from April 25 to Aug. 1 with an injured right foot.

Bruney, projected to be the Yankees' primary setup reliever for Mariano Rivera, held opponents to a .153 batting average, the fifth-lowest in the major leagues among pitchers with 30 or more innings.

[killeverything]

well i guess i should thank the sox for signing him for another year.

any weakness the sox has gives the Yankees an advantage.

so tek can't hit anymore
he can't play defense anymore

at least he can receive the ball and toss is back to the pitcher
without incident

Pretty much.

Although "intangibley" he's untouchable. Intangibles are a very poweful thing. They're the kind of thing that give people like Derek fucking Jeter two Gold Gloves . Tek is supposed to mentor his replacement......and hopefully catch another no-hitter. I'm kind of on the fence about how I feel about this one.

We all know the Yankees DO NOT have a big-time catcher in the minors right now.
Do the sox have one or two?

Oh yeah, intangibles are very powerful. No doubt about that.
Nice Jeter and Gold Glove joke.
This guy is going to come back like a monster at SS at the plate in '09.
The critics woke up a sleeping giant.
He will have worked on his mobility, his core, his range, his quickness.
I can see him making a run at the batting title again in '09.

No. Not really.

You don't get better defensively when you get older. As much as Tom Tango, Bill James and Micheal Lichman's UZR defensive rankings have pissed him off. The man still has no range to his left. That's not going to improve, it's going to decline. Even Yankee fans are seeing his time is nearing to having to switch positions. I predict that he'll field routine ground balls and make it look incredibly difficult in doing it. Maybe after he spins in the air for no reason. He'll probably add a somersalt after he throws it something.

* side note and this is interesting*

With a looking at stats, etc. The numbers are there. Some GMs ( Billy Beane who is notoriously a numbers guy ) still think he's incredible. Beane himself stated about Jeter after looking at the rankings, "there are some guys who make plays happen." Take that how you will. Jeter still converts less balls in play hit to him to outs than any other SS in MLB.

His FPct was .979 - His OOZ ( outs out of zone ) was 29 - His DPT ( double plays turned ) was 35 - His ERA for pitchers on the mound was .979. Grading systems rank him as a 'C' grade.

As for batting title? No. It's not 1999. This is where Jeter's offensive skills defy explaination. Most hitters when they age have their batting averages drop, and slugging averages increase. Jeter is the opposite. He's been a singles hitter for the most part now, yet one who hits at an "Ichiro level."

There has been some serious improvements with him at the plate as of late, just not XBH. Like for example on 09/16 Jeter set the record for most hits at MFY Stadium. He hit a ground ball 58% of the time on balls in play, which was the most by a ML regular. 68% of his hits into the OF were outs. His batting averages across the board dipped last season. I don't expect that trend to continue, except I also don't expect him to gain a bunch of power again. I don't have the actual numbers in front of me for this one. In "close and late" batting situations he was 300+, which was one of the leaders this year in the AL. Meaning well, the Captain was clutch.

*edit*

For readability

[Facedown]

Dodgers reportedly have offered 1yr/25mil to Manny.

[JakeYonkel]

Dodgers reportedly have offered 1yr/25mil to Manny.

Good riddance, fuck him and Scott Boras. Arrogant SOB.

I'd love to see him make LESS than what he would have received in the $20M option with Boston, but I doubt that'll happen. Then again, if nobody is seriously bidding against LA, why even go that high?

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

Orioles get Rich Hill from the Cubs for player to be named later.

Mets offer Oliver Perez 3 yr/36 million pending physical.

[killeverything]

Dodgers reportedly have offered 1yr/25mil to Manny.

Good riddance, fuck him and Scott Boras. Arrogant SOB.

I'd love to see him make LESS than what he would have received in the $20M option with Boston, but I doubt that'll happen. Then again, if nobody is seriously bidding against LA, why even go that high?

It was discussed a lot about the Giants going for him. Everybody could use a hitter like that, no one wants him. That act to get out of Boston really did fuck him. I wanted him to get less than his arbitration years though. That was supposed to be our redemption. LA needs him too badly. Fuck.

Orioles get Rich Hill from the Cubs for player to be named later.

That's good insurance, but I'm not sure I fully understand it. I thought it was for two minor league PTBNL. The Orioles have a farm loaded with pitching. I'm not sure they really need more. From what I've read so far, they're pretty close to a massive upgrade, and possibly being competitive soon. I should look into it.

*edit*

It was for one PTBNL.

[Facedown]

It took Manny about 2 hours to reject the offer.

[killeverything]

It took Manny about 2 hours to reject the offer.

Boras wants a 4-6 year deal. That's funny for a 37 year old in the NL. He won't be more than just a DH soon.

It's not the Manny we had in Boston.

[Facedown]

White Sox offer Abreu 1yr/8mil

[Machado]

1 year offers will be on the table for these free agents that still are without a team.
Their agents back in Nov/Dec might have expected a multi-year deal, but that ship has sailed.

Chalk it up to "a bad time" to be a free agent???

[Machado]

TAMPA, Fla. -- Yankees captain Derek Jeter wants to reiterate it yet again: Alex Rodriguez has the support of his teammates.

Rodriguez became an offseason focal point again this winter with the release of former manager Joe Torre's book, "The Yankee Years."

Torre mentioned that some people in the Yankees clubhouse referred to Rodriguez as "A-Fraud."

"Like I've said before, we all support Alex. He's our teammate," Jeter said Wednesday after working out at the Yankees' minor league complex.

"It seems like that we keep talking about the same things over and over again. It's not like this is a new thing that's come up. The only thing that you'd like to see, going into spring training is, you'd like to see everyone talking about the excitement of the season and getting ready for the season. That's the unfortunate thing."

Jeter said former Yankees bullpen catcher Mike Borzello, in a kidding manner with Rodriguez, sometimes called the slugger "A-Fraud."

"He joked with him," Jeter said. "It wasn't like people on the team. I've never heard someone on the team say that. That never happened."

Jeter has not read Torre's book, but has followed recent media accounts.

"Knowing Mr. Torre, he's never going to intentionally try to hurt somebody," Jeter said. "He's like a second father to me. Everyone knows how close we are. He's not going to intentionally go out and do harm to somebody. That's not the kind of person he is."

A busy offseason by the Yankees, including the signing of free agents CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Mark Teixeira, has Jeter upbeat.

"I'll tell you what, I'm probably as excited about this season as any season in a long time," Jeter said. "We made some great additions. They said they wanted to improve our pitching staff and we got arguably two of the best in the game. We added Tex. They always talk about how great of a hitter he is. He's an all-around player."

The Yankees' run of 13 consecutive postseason trips ended during an injury-marred season last year.

"It boils down to everybody staying healthy, especially in our division with so many good teams," Jeter said. "I'm pretty excited about this year."

[JakeYonkel]

Nice of Jeter to open his mouth now, too bad he couldn't do the same when the fans were all over A-Rod in 2006.

[Machado]

Nice of Jeter to open his mouth now, too bad he couldn't do the same when the fans were all over A-Rod in 2006.

Cheap Shot!!

[killeverything]

Nice of Jeter to open his mouth now, too bad he couldn't do the same when the fans were all over A-Rod in 2006.

We have a fucking winner!

It always amazed me the "captain" let Arod stand alone through all he's gone through there. I understand your offended by his comments/obsession or whatever, but isn't that the job of the captain? Maybe it's just intangibles.

[Machado]

Nice of Jeter to open his mouth now, too bad he couldn't do the same when the fans were all over A-Rod in 2006.

We have a fucking winner!

It always amazed me the "captain" let Arod stand alone through all he's gone through there. I understand your offended by his comments/obsession or whatever, but isn't that the job of the captain? Maybe it's just intangibles.

The way I see it, I believe that Jeter is NOT the type of person/player that is going to talk very often. I mean, he has proved since his rookie year that he does not make controversial comments.
Other players like Wells and O'Neill and Moose, etc...Those players spoke much more than Jeter ever did.

If it's not inside of Jeter to be outspoken, then so be it. Should he have "faked" it, like Torre said A-Rod faked it when he 1st joined the club?

I don't know. It's very easy to criticize Jeter for NOT speaking out or speaking up on behalf of A-Rod. For all we know, Jeter did that internally. Not with the media around to write down every word.

Maybe Rivera or Bernie or Posada should have spoken up. Then again, maybe they also fall into the same category??

I don't know all the answers. I just know that Jeter never struck me as the type of Captain that was going to speak up.
Is that bad? Is that good?

[JakeYonkel]

Jeter's going to go out and scold the fans for boing A-Rod, when he deserves it? That's fucking insulting. If fans want to boo, they can boo.

Its different than saying he has his support in the clubhouse, which he has always said he does.

I had season tickets that year, and believe me they were booing him when he was coming up to bat - this was before the strikeout or GIDP that was about to happen. It was insane.

Fuck, I was at the '05 game where the fans booed Mariano Rivera for blowing a save against Boston (though the '04 loss was still obviously fresh, c'mon). Tough crowd.

Anyway, I would think the captain, who could probably whip his dick out and piss on home plate and get cheered, could have simply said "leave A-Rod the fuck alone" and the fans would have lapped it up. He knows Alex is a sensitive guy and you could see him grinding the bat handle into sawdust at every AB.

All we know is that Derek probably enjoyed every minute of it, listening to A-Rod get the shit booed out of him.

I love Jeter, as does any Yankee fan, but since A-Rod came over in '04 he's done a lot of shit to rub me the wrong way.

[killeverything]

What my point was ( touched upon by Jake ) is that Jeter being the Captain could've made some sort of public gesture. I got the idea from a game ( which I believe Kruk and McCarver ) were commenting on. It was against Toronto at MFY Stadium. They were "Jeter should maybe go up to him in the dugout, throw his arm over his shoulder and say something like 'it's alright you'll come out of your slump." This is just paraphrased.

At the time it would've made sense. Since Arod was the target for all the boos and he was struggling at the plate. I think that's the point we were all trying to make. Since Arod is obviosly uncomfortable there, has pissed off Jeter ( which is like spitting on God in NY ), and has the wrath of the fans and media. Maybe that would've silenced them and added calm to a reportably tense clubhouse ( during 2005 ).

It's all hypothetical. So as much as we speculate scenarios. With Jeter's reputation which is coming under cynicism now from some. Could imagine what would've happened if that did? Jeter would be looked at as God from people not from NY, and *shudder* possibly Scosscia's Angels wouldn't have made it past the first round.

This is all going to be talked about more now since Torre's book.

[Machado]

What my point was ( touched upon by Jake ) is that Jeter being the Captain could've made some sort of public gesture. I got the idea from a game ( which I believe Kruk and McCarver ) were commenting on. It was against Toronto at MFY Stadium. They were "Jeter should maybe go up to him in the dugout, throw his arm over his shoulder and say something like 'it's alright you'll come out of your slump." This is just paraphrased.

At the time it would've made sense. Since Arod was the target for all the boos and he was struggling at the plate. I think that's the point we were all trying to make. Since Arod is obviosly uncomfortable there, has pissed off Jeter ( which is like spitting on God in NY ), and has the wrath of the fans and media. Maybe that would've silenced them and added calm to a reportably tense clubhouse ( during 2005 ).

It's all hypothetical. So as much as we speculate scenarios. With Jeter's reputation which is coming under cynicism now from some. Could imagine what would've happened if that did? Jeter would be looked at as God from people not from NY, and *shudder* possibly Scosscia's Angels wouldn't have made it past the first round.

This is all going to be talked about more now since Torre's book.

I see where you are coming from.
My point is, who's to say Jeter did not do that behind the scenes.
Maybe in the clubhouse or maybe during BP or maybe on the bus or the plane. Who knows!
Since the act was not done in public, the perception is that Jeter did not help A-Rod.

Perhaps because of the book, it seems to me that Jeter is commenting a lot regarding his relationship w/A-Rod and how his teamates treat him as well.
Who cares if Bowa or another catch called A-Rod, "a-fraud". Big deal. I'm sure players and coaches have called each other much worse.
It's a joke. No harm, no foul.

[JakeYonkel]

Well, I'm more than halfway through the book - I'm getting into the 2004 season now.

I really haven't read anything that seems like Torre violated any clubhouse insider privilege. I'm in NO way a Torre apologist (read my earlier comments) but I will say having read the book thusfar that a lot of shit WAS blown out of proportion by the media, and as of yet, there's really nothing Torre should have had to apologize for.

He tongues Jeter's nuts like crazy, no surprise. I wasn't aware that Brian Cashman was so pro-ARod though.