Andre Dawson elected to Hall of Fame (nobody else gets in)

[VinnieKulick]

Congrats to the Hawk!

Was watching MLB network and all they could do is fall over themselves trying to explain why Roberto Alamar didn't get elected.

A total disrespect for Dawson, I thought.

[JakeYonkel]

Absolute joke on all accounts.

[Machado]

Congrats to the Hawk!

Was watching MLB network and all they could do is fall over themselves trying to explain why Roberto Alamar didn't get elected.

A total disrespect for Dawson, I thought.

What do you mean?
If only 1 person should have been voted in today, it should have been
Alomar.
His numbers alone and defensive skills allowed him to be
a 1st ballot HOF.
End of story!

[JakeYonkel]

Well, look.. after allowing Jim Rice in last year the bar has clearly been lowered. 500 HR was more or less the standard for entry. Now apparently its "being a feared hitter" and having the respect of your peers.

That Alomar didn't make the Hall just makes the whole thing a joke. Yeah, he'll get in. But out of this class, if anybody should have been a first ballot guy, it'd have been him.

Dawson's career OBP was .323. Are you serious? This is opening the door for seroius consideration for guys like Jason Giambi in a couple of years, guys who are "not quite there" statistically but rattled off a few impressive seasons.

I won't lose any sleep over it but it's still a joke.

[VinnieKulick]

Congrats to the Hawk!

Was watching MLB network and all they could do is fall over themselves trying to explain why Roberto Alamar didn't get elected.

A total disrespect for Dawson, I thought.

What do you mean?
If only 1 person should have been voted in today, it should have been
Alomar.
His numbers alone and defensive skills allowed him to be
a 1st ballot HOF.
End of story!

What I was saying was, it was disrepectful for the panel on MLB network to basically cry about Alomar not getting in, and not praising Dawson. I have no problem with Alomar being in the HOF. And, I also dislike the thought that there are writers who say NOBODY should be first vote inductees, or that you have to be the most dominant person EVER to play the position to warrant first time induction.

The five douchebags who submitted blank ballots should have their voting abilities stripped of them. Hell, not to vote for ANYBODY is saying that nobody on the ballot deserved it, and never will deserve it, and that's just pure bullshit.

Tim Rains was the NL equivalent of Ricky Henderson for most of his career, and he gets practically no votes. Playing in Montreal for so long must be the factor.

[Crazy Levi]

Why isn't Mark McGuire in? He hit 583 home runs.

The whole steroid thing is ridiculous. You are going to end up with a Hall of Fame that contains none of the best players of an entire generation.

That's fucking stupid.

[JakeYonkel]

Alomar... Raines... McGwire.. maybe Blyleven... all should be in.

Is Carlos Delgado a HOF'er? He's got better numbers than Rice and Dawson, so I guess so.

[killeverything]

Why isn't Mark McGuire in? He hit 583 home runs.

The whole steroid thing is ridiculous. You are going to end up with a Hall of Fame that contains none of the best players of an entire generation.

That's fucking stupid.

What did Mcgwire do besides hit homeruns? Something which has been basically proven to be enhanced throughout his entire career.

All he did was hit bombs while taking enhancements. I feel no sympathy for his exclusion.

As for Dawson. I figured he would get in, especially reading BBWAA's feelings about him. I woulda voted for Blyleven and Raines personally. A lot of the Steroid Era guys are coming up for election. I bet very little to none of them get in.

Randy Johnson is eligible 2014. If the world doesn't end, he's the epidomy of first ballot.

[JakeYonkel]

Honestly, if Mariano Rivera isn't inducted with 100% of the vote, whoever doesn't vote for him should just have their vote revoked, no questions asked. I wouldn't say the same about Jeter, or Manny, or Randy, etc. But Rivera? No question.

[Machado]

Honestly, if Mariano Rivera isn't inducted with 100% of the vote, whoever doesn't vote for him should just have their vote revoked, no questions asked. I wouldn't say the same about Jeter, or Manny, or Randy, etc. But Rivera? No question.

Looking forward to watching PTI later on today. I wonder how loud those 2 will scream for the entire process to be re-evaluated.
I agree, for any writer that did not write at least 1 name down, that person obviously should not be given the chance to vote ever again.

Given the choice, Alomar should get in before Dawson. It's that simple for me. Matter of fact, given the option, Alomar should be in before anybody else that was eligible today. Among that list, he was the greatest.

[doctordestructo]

Think this had any bearing on Alomar not getting enough votes?

[Machado]

Think this had any bearing on Alomar not getting enough votes?

Maybe? Maybe not?
Should not have mattered much. Other players already in the HOF
did much worse.

The process is a joke
2009 proves it.

[JakeYonkel]

While it was stupid, Alomar spitting on an ump had no bearing on his on-field abilities and performance. He wasn't on steroids, he wasn't gambling on games. He spit on somebody. It was dumb as shit but anybody that holds that against him 15 years later and would actually not vote for him because of that, once again, should not be allowed to vote.

[Hootchietoad]

Well, look.. after allowing Jim Rice in last year the bar has clearly been lowered. 500 HR was more or less the standard for entry. Now apparently its "being a feared hitter" and having the respect of your peers.

That Alomar didn't make the Hall just makes the whole thing a joke. Yeah, he'll get in. But out of this class, if anybody should have been a first ballot guy, it'd have been him.

Dawson's career OBP was .323. Are you serious? This is opening the door for seroius consideration for guys like Jason Giambi in a couple of years, guys who are "not quite there" statistically but rattled off a few impressive seasons.

I won't lose any sleep over it but it's still a joke.

I understand your point, but then what are the criteria to get in? I've been a Sox fan for most of life, and my first fave was Yaz. He played for 23 years and ended up with 452 home runs, not much for an outfielder with that much time in the game, but he was a first timer. Yes I know he won the Triple Crown, MVP, 3,000 hits, etc..but he played forever, so some of the stats should have happened. Rice only had 70 less homers in 14 full seasons, compared to 23. Plus he was a dominant hitter, for close to a decade, not just a couple years. He should be compared to players from his era, not the enhancers of the past 15 years.

One of my biggest gripes about the hall is this. I guarantee there are members from bygone eras that wouldn't hold a candle to some players from recent eras who won't get inducted. Whether some of these guys were "specialists" or just solid players, the point is that guys from 75 years ago had an advantage because the bar wasn't as high, and this is kind of unfair to some more recent players that won't get in, though they may have comparable numbers to some members.

[JakeYonkel]

Well, it's the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Pretty Good. Obviously 500 HR or 300 wins can't be the standard for everybody, because there are more defensive minded guys or better AVG hitters or whatever. But when your bread and butter was being a power hitter, as were Rice and to a lesser extent Dawson - those standards should be upheld, at least to a good extent. And if you're on the cusp, your other numbers should help your case.

Dawson had less than 3,000 hits, hit .280 for his career with a shitty OBP, and had ~1600 RBIs over 21 seasons. He had one oustanding year (1987) and three good ones ('83, '90, '91). To me, that doesn't cut it. But what the hell do I know, right? I don't have a vote.

[Machado]

Well, it's the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Pretty Good.

There will be players that fit into the "pretty good" category and fall short of entering "the hall of fame".
Based on the eligible players in '09, I don't think Hawk deserved more votes than Alomar.
I'm sorry. Alomar has the AS appearances & the gold gloves as well.
During his time at 2nd base, his name was mentioned as the best 2b of his time.
Plus, Robby was a career .300 hitter.

[killeverything]

Honestly, if Mariano Rivera isn't inducted with 100% of the vote, whoever doesn't vote for him should just have their vote revoked, no questions asked. I wouldn't say the same about Jeter, or Manny, or Randy, etc. But Rivera? No question.

I agree with you completely, but it's not going to happen. No one has ever received 100% of the vote. Think about players in the Hall. No one. I wouldn't give Mariano 100% of the vote over Babe Ruth. I know the comparison's absurd, I'm just sayin'.

[Lardbucket]

Bob Uecker is famous, so he should be in, right?
It's the Hall Of FAME, not the Hall Of Baseball Excellence.

[VinnieKulick]

Why isn't Mark McGuire in? He hit 583 home runs.

The whole steroid thing is ridiculous. You are going to end up with a Hall of Fame that contains none of the best players of an entire generation.

That's fucking stupid.

What did Mcgwire do besides hit homeruns? Something which has been basically proven to be enhanced throughout his entire career.

All he did was hit bombs while taking enhancements. I feel no sympathy for his exclusion.

Coming from a guy with Manny Ramirez as his signature, this is pretty funny.
What McGuire did:
AL Rookie of the Year
12 time all star
3 time silver slugger
One gold Glove
8th in career home runs
.394 career On base percentage
.588 Career slugging percentage
841 Extra base hits
And the highest HR per At bat average in the history of the game.

And, if you are going to deny him for ALLEGED performance enhancement, kick out everybody who played on speed in the 60s and 70s.

[VinnieKulick]

Bob Uecker is famous, so he should be in, right?
It's the Hall Of FAME, not the Hall Of Baseball Excellence.

Um, Bob Uecker was inducted in 2003.

[Lardbucket]

Bob Uecker is famous, so he should be in, right?
It's the Hall Of FAME, not the Hall Of Baseball Excellence.

Um, Bob Uecker was inducted in 2003.

As a player?
Either way, it proves my point - he's famous, so he's in!

[Crazy Levi]

Why isn't Mark McGuire in? He hit 583 home runs.

The whole steroid thing is ridiculous. You are going to end up with a Hall of Fame that contains none of the best players of an entire generation.

That's fucking stupid.

What did Mcgwire do besides hit homeruns? Something which has been basically proven to be enhanced throughout his entire career.

All he did was hit bombs while taking enhancements. I feel no sympathy for his exclusion.

Coming from a guy with Manny Ramirez as his signature, this is pretty funny.
What McGuire did:
AL Rookie of the Year
12 time all star
3 time silver slugger
One gold Glove
8th in career home runs
.394 career On base percentage
.588 Career slugging percentage
841 Extra base hits
And the highest HR per At bat average in the history of the game.

And, if you are going to deny him for ALLEGED performance enhancement, kick out everybody who played on speed in the 60s and 70s.

That's it. Arguing against McGuire is fucking stupid. This entire generation is "alleged" to have been juiced - so we just don't put any of them in? I'm sick of this and so is the general public. The hysteria is over, start putting guys like Big Red in the HOF or it's quickly gonna turn into a joke.

Can't fucking wait to see the HOF deny the greatest pitcher of all time because of his "alleged" enhancement...against an entire generation of allegedly enhanced batters.

[Machado]

That's it. Arguing against McGuire is fucking stupid. This entire generation is "alleged" to have been juiced - so we just don't put any of them in? I'm sick of this and so is the general public. The hysteria is over, start putting guys like Big Red in the HOF or it's quickly gonna turn into a joke.

Can't fucking wait to see the HOF deny the greatest pitcher of all time because of his "alleged" enhancement...against an entire generation of allegedly enhanced batters.

This sort of debate will clog up ESPN sportscenter & outside the lines for years.
Should Mac get in? Not sure about that because he has yet to make any statement regarding the allegations.
His "performance" in front of Congress was a disgrace. He needs to answer questions.
In front of a room of reporters. Get it over with once and for all.

That being said, I am just fine with him not being inducted as a 1st ballot HOF

Also, I think it's a crime that Pete Rose has not been allowed in the HOF.

[WOLF]

I love our annual Hall of Fame thread.

Obviously, as a die hard Expos fan, I'm thrilled Hawk got in and truly hope he will go in with an Expos cap - since he played 11 years here and was brought up in our system - and not a Cubs cap where he played 6 seasons, but maybe had more success. I agree he's a borderline HOF'er, but if Rice is in, he's in. Also, you can't overlook that he played great defence, could run, and was a five-tool player for a good part of his career.

Now onto the rant. Raines not being in, or garnering a larger percentage of the vote, is just assinine. Maybe playing so long in Montreal is slowing down his ascension, maybe it's because he was involved in the MLB coke scandal back in the 80's, or maybe the voters are just doing more blow than he did. If Rickey Henderson never existed, Raines would be hailed as the greatest leadoff guy of all time. He has better stats than Lou Brock (and was a better player) and even compares to Roberto Clemente. He was THAT good. Raines should be in before Dawson and it would have been wonderful if they went in together. They are best friends and one of Raines' sons is named Andre, after Andre Dawson.

Now onto Alomar. I was born in 1971. Alomar, along with Joe Morgan, are the two best 2nd basemen I've seen in my lifetime. He's an absolute Hall of Famer. The only reason he's not in this year is that some voters take it upon themselves to create their own rules, such as only certain, special players can go in on the 1st ballot. That's ridiculous. If you're a Hall of Famer, you're a Hall of Famer, PERIOD. Oh. and with regards to the spitting incident - if that's being held against him people should know that Hirschbeck has long forgiven Alomar, and Alomar has helped raise millions for Hirshbeck's charity.

Finally, I feel bad for Bert Blylevyn. Yeah, he lost a lot of games, but he played for some shitty teams. He also won a lot of games, struck out a lot of guys, and had one of the best curveballs ever. He should be in, as should Pete Rose, Mark McGuire (he didn't do anything against the rules of baseball at the time), and maybe even Edgar Martinez (same arguement as with closers - he was great, maybe the best, at what he did - what more could he do/be).

End of rant.

EDITED to note: The guy who submitted his ballot, with only the name David Segui on it, should have his priviledge taken away, or be shot, or both. IDIOT.

[JakeYonkel]

I agree he's a borderline HOF'er, but if Rice is in, he's in.

And that's the point! You start allowing fringy guys into the Hall, and then it's "well, if _____ got in, so should Carlos Delgado!" or whatever.

It's the same shit that happens when scrubs get signed to big contracts - the market gets devalued. Carlos Silva gets paid $12M a year, so any free agent pitcher with a pulse was pointing to that deal and saying "if he gets paid that, so should I."

And on Pete Rose... another absolute joke he's not in the Hall. What he did had no bearing on his stats and performance on the field. They didn't kick OJ Simpson out of the NFL Hall after he killed somebody, did they? And that's a far more egregious crime than fucking gambling.

[killeverything]

Can't fucking wait to see the HOF deny the greatest pitcher of all time because of his "alleged" enhancement...against an entire generation of allegedly enhanced batters.

Randy Johnson will go in first ballot.

Clemens like Mcgwire's "allegement" is pretty fucking obvious. I have a hard time believing they both won't be admitted until their final years of eligiblity to prove a point. The Veteran's Commitee certainly will.


As for Pete Rose, even if Selig or the next Commisioner lifts his lifetime ban. I don't think he'll be inducted. Surpassing Ty Cobb or not. He bet on games his team played in. There is no way the BBWAA or Veteran's Commitee induct him after that. Regardless if it hasn't been proven if he set his team up to lose or not. I think he should go in personally, but it sets a standard.

If they let the "power" hitters from the Roid era in, they better give Rose a shot too.

I've said this before. If those guy's would just pull a Pettite and admit it. I would be championing their admittance into the Hall. But like suspicions of Alomar's exclusion. Part of election is how you played the game ( Ty Cobb, I know ), and it wouldn't surprise me to see modern voters take more of that into account. Right or wrong.

[JakeYonkel]

Kill, you think A-Rod gets into the Hall? I know it's early and a ton can change. But I think him 'coming clean' kinda helped the shitstorm blow through, more than denying it ala Bonds, McGwire, Clemens.

[Punk]

The guy that pisses me off is Dave Parker, my all time favorite player. He had more runs scored, RBIs, stolen bases, and total bases than Jim Rice, not to mention had 3 gold gloves to Rice's 0. He also played a big part on 2 championship teams. Rice? None.

Fuck the HOF.

/end my annual HOF rant

[Machado]

The guy that pisses me off is Dave Parker, my all time favorite player. He had more runs scored, RBIs, stolen bases, and total bases than Jim Rice, not to mention had 3 gold gloves to Rice's 0. He also played a big part on 2 championship teams. Rice? None.

Fuck the HOF.

/end my annual HOF rant

The Cobra
Damn fine ball player
Remember the throws he made in the Seattle All-Star game:

[JakeYonkel]

I'm sure he would have appreciated Peter Gammons campaigning for him like he did Rice.