Most Underrated Boxer of All Time?

[thejuggernaut]

"Smokin" Bert Cooper was an underrated dude in the heavyweight division for a guy his size.

Oh come on...he never beat ANYBODY of note. He was a fat cruiserweight who gave Evander Holyfield a decent fight and never beat anybody I've ever heard of...that's not exactly "underrated" material.

Exactly.

Bert Cooper lands a sweet punch against an ill prepared Holyfield, coupled with his post fight "no moah ee eth pee enn faights" rambling and the boxing "analysts and experts" were trying to sell him as what seemed like the second coming of Joe Frazier.

[The Cusack]

Marvin Hagler vs Tommy Hearns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dviNeE-j3kI

[Punk]

^^^That first round is one of the 5 best rounds ever.

[The Cusack]

^^^That first round is one of the 5 best rounds ever.

It's too bad that Tommy Hearns couldn't stay focused. One of the many things that impressed me with Hagler as a fighter was that he was a machine out there. He never lost his composure nor did he ever look like he was over matched. Pound for pound I'm not sure if there was a better fighter.

[musicnyc2727]

always thought roberto duran wasnt given his due mainly cause alot of people remember him for quitting against sugar ray in there second fight

[Tymaster]

^^^That first round is one of the 5 best rounds ever.

It's too bad that Tommy Hearns couldn't stay focused. One of the many things that impressed me with Hagler as a fighter was that he was a machine out there. He never lost his composure nor did he ever look like he was over matched. Pound for pound I'm not sure if there was a better fighter.

Focus. That's the key. So much of boxing, greco roman wrestling (real wrestling), and any martial art, or just good street fighting is mental. Obviously, in heavyweight boxing, when a guy comes in with a spare tire for a gut, that's a lack of focus and usually the sign of a loser. But not always, there have been exceptions. Now back to the mental aspect. In real life, anyone with any formal training in any kind of fighting knows that it is all mental. Never assume that the 280 lb pile of goo is too slow to land a punch. By the same token, don't assume that the 5'1" 103 lb rat can't break your neck in one move. I work out with a Bando Saya. Although I have no aspirations of ever fighting in tournaments or anything, I do it to supplement biking and lifting (i.e. to keep from getting bored). I've seen both extremes mentioned above. It's like Yoda says "size matters not." Fighting is more mental than the average joe likes to realize.

[Frett_Bored]

always thought roberto duran wasnt given his due mainly cause alot of people remember him for quitting against sugar ray in there second fight

And Tommy Hearns knocked him the fuck out.

One of the most brutal KOs of a revered champion I've ever seen.

[Cyber Spirit]

^^^That first round is one of the 5 best rounds ever.

It's too bad that Tommy Hearns couldn't stay focused. One of the many things that impressed me with Hagler as a fighter was that he was a machine out there. He never lost his composure nor did he ever look like he was over matched. Pound for pound I'm not sure if there was a better fighter.

I remember reading Hagler had an extra inch
of muscle around his skull compared to the norm.

[Crazy Levi]

"Smokin" Bert Cooper was an underrated dude in the heavyweight division for a guy his size.

Oh come on...he never beat ANYBODY of note. He was a fat cruiserweight who gave Evander Holyfield a decent fight and never beat anybody I've ever heard of...that's not exactly "underrated" material.

Exactly.

Bert Cooper lands a sweet punch against an ill prepared Holyfield, coupled with his post fight "no moah ee eth pee enn faights" rambling and the boxing "analysts and experts" were trying to sell him as what seemed like the second coming of Joe Frazier.

He was one of the stiffs George Foreman fought on the run up to Holyfield.

[HeavyMetalZombie666]

Jerry Quarry and Johnny Owen.

[Terrapin]

Its hard to pick an All-Time underrated boxer. i can even think of some local guys i'd put on the list and i'm sure everyone else could too. But to answer the question i actually think Mike Tyson is underrated. He doesn't get spoken about on the level of Ali, Louis, Foreman, etc. And he obviously isn't the 'boxer' all those guys are, But for me, a prime Mike Tyson beats anyone

[WTF]

Boom Boom Mancini

[Redman77]

Little Mac

[shocked_the_monkey]

always thought roberto duran wasnt given his due mainly cause alot of people remember him for quitting against sugar ray in there second fight

Roberto Duran not given his due?!? He's considered one of the greatest of all time. Comfortably the greatest lightweight ever. Won legit titles in 5 divisions. The Ring Magazine 5th best fighter of all time. He could've quit 5 fights in a row and with his resume he'd still be a great.

But to answer the question i actually think Mike Tyson is underrated. He doesn't get spoken about on the level of Ali, Louis, Foreman, etc. And he obviously isn't the 'boxer' all those guys are, But for me, a prime Mike Tyson beats anyone

You see, I would say Tyson is comfortably the most overrated boxer of the last 60 years. Once the aura was gone, he was a shadow, much like Foreman. Although Foreman get credit for his comeback even if it was in the alphabet era of titles.

Tyson would get his head jabbed off by Ali, would lose a wide decision to Frazier and would get bombed out early by a prime Foreman.

I would say some underrated fighters due to not having the name recognition of some of the above would be:

Jimmy Wilde
Winky Wright
Chris Eubank
Herol Graham
Mike McCallum
Lloyd Honeyghan
Donald Curry

[johnk5150]

always thought roberto duran wasnt given his due mainly cause alot of people remember him for quitting against sugar ray in there second fight

Roberto Duran not given his due?!? He's considered one of the greatest of all time.

Duran is probably considered one of the 20 greatest fighters of all time. I'll never forget his first loss against a guy named DeJesus. Bobby D had no answer for him that day. Of course he beat the shit out the guy the next time they fought.

Man I miss Friday night and Saturday afternoon fights on free TV.

[Crazy Levi]

You see, I would say Tyson is comfortably the most overrated boxer of the last 60 years. Once the aura was gone, he was a shadow, much like Foreman.

Don't buy it. Tyson was STILL plenty feared up until the very end. His "aura" carried him up till he lost to Holyfield.

Guys like him - Marciano, Frazier - short stocky guys don't last as long. They were all great fighters but all finished up to their early 30s. Tyson isn't overrated at all - maybe he was in about 1990 but nobody really thinks he was one of the greatest ever anymore. He's ranked just right - a guy who was unstoppable as a young hungry fighter and who beat everybody they put in front of him convincingly for 5 years.

Tyson would get his head jabbed off by Ali, would lose a wide decision to Frazier and would get bombed out early by a prime Foreman.

Really, who the hell knows? Tyson in 1988 could have beaten any of those guys. He was fast as hell, in ridiculous condition, punch hard, and fought really smart. These things all started to go by the wayside as Don King and co. got their hooks in him. Foreman was slow and lumbering, Frazier was easy to hit, prime Tyson could have beat those guys easy. Ali is the greatest of all time but Frazier gave him trouble so why not Tyson? They were similar fighters in stature and style, except Tyson was far harder to hit when he was good.

If anything, these days Tyson is underrated. The whole "he was never any good" thing has caught traction and it's completely ridiculous. He was champ for 4 years and fought all the time, beating everybody. Even after Buster, when his heart wasn't in it and his pro and personal lives were a complete mess, he still kept beating everybody. His fights with Razor Rudduck were epic. I'm pretty sure he was contracted to fight Holyfield at the time he went to prison. He wasn't ducking.

After prison he was never the same and he never beat anybody. Doesn't matter his legacy was secure by that point.

[WTF]

always thought roberto duran wasnt given his due mainly cause alot of people remember him for quitting against sugar ray in there second fight

Roberto Duran not given his due?!? He's considered one of the greatest of all time. Comfortably the greatest lightweight ever. Won legit titles in 5 divisions. The Ring Magazine 5th best fighter of all time. He could've quit 5 fights in a row and with his resume he'd still be a great.

But to answer the question i actually think Mike Tyson is underrated. He doesn't get spoken about on the level of Ali, Louis, Foreman, etc. And he obviously isn't the 'boxer' all those guys are, But for me, a prime Mike Tyson beats anyone

You see, I would say Tyson is comfortably the most overrated boxer of the last 60 years. Once the aura was gone, he was a shadow, much like Foreman. Although Foreman get credit for his comeback even if it was in the alphabet era of titles.

Tyson would get his head jabbed off by Ali, would lose a wide decision to Frazier and would get bombed out early by a prime Foreman.

Nah. The only boxer that could have possibly jabbed Tyson's head off was Larry Holmes. He's still the only guy I have seen who could fuck someone up with his jab.

And I mean a prime Holmes, not the almost 40 year old that Tyson crushed.

[shocked_the_monkey]

Don't buy it. Tyson was STILL plenty feared up until the very end. His "aura" carried him up till he lost to Holyfield.

Guys like him - Marciano, Frazier - short stocky guys don't last as long. They were all great fighters but all finished up to their early 30s. Tyson isn't overrated at all - maybe he was in about 1990 but nobody really thinks he was one of the greatest ever anymore.

I was referring to average person. Hell, go on any Tyson youtube video and 50% of the comments will be about Tyson being the greatest of all time.

Foreman was slow and lumbering, Frazier was easy to hit, prime Tyson could have beat those guys easy. Ali is the greatest of all time but Frazier gave him trouble so why not Tyson?

Styles. Ali struggled with Frazier. Foreman knocked Frazier down about 8 times in three rounds. Not disputing Frazier was easy to hit, he was an in-fighter, the whole point of that style is to work on the inside and take punches while dealing them out. Tyson's style was tailor made for Foreman and Frazier had a FAR superior chin to Tyson.

In the 70's even the fringe heavy weights were people like Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner and Earnie Shavers. The era was so much stronger. Certainly not going to dispute Tyson was king from 87 to 89. But would he have got to 37 and 0 with the level of competition from 70 to 76?

Of course, as you say it's impossible to say with any certainty who would win. Fun to speculate though...

The only boxer that could have possibly jabbed Tyson's head off was Larry Holmes.

Or Buster Douglas who actually did most of the damage with his jab, against a Tyson, who contrary to popular belief, was actually only two pounds heavier for that fight than he was against Mike Spinks.

[Crazy Levi]

The only boxer that could have possibly jabbed Tyson's head off was Larry Holmes.

Or Buster Douglas who actually did most of the damage with his jab, against a Tyson, who contrary to popular belief, was actually only two pounds heavier for that fight than he was against Mike Spinks.

Again, not really fair.

You think Buster would have done that to Tyson in 1987? The Tyson who showed up in Japan was out of shape, couldn't care less, and didn't move anything like the Tyson of just a couple years before.

Buster had a great night but he was in the right place at the right time. This is a guy who couldn't beat Tony Tucker. Tyson at his best would have destroyed Buster in the manner everybody expected him to on that night in 1990.

[shocked_the_monkey]

The only boxer that could have possibly jabbed Tyson's head off was Larry Holmes.

Or Buster Douglas who actually did most of the damage with his jab, against a Tyson, who contrary to popular belief, was actually only two pounds heavier for that fight than he was against Mike Spinks.

Again, not really fair.

You think Buster would have done that to Tyson in 1987? The Tyson who showed up in Japan was out of shape, couldn't care less, and didn't move anything like the Tyson of just a couple years before.

Buster had a great night but he was in the right place at the right time. This is a guy who couldn't beat Tony Tucker. Tyson at his best would have destroyed Buster in the manner everybody expected him to on that night in 1990.

Emotionally yes, he was not in a good place and Buster fought the best he ever did. As above, physically he was in prime condition. Tyson changed his style. He became a headhunter and neglected combination punching a couple of fights before that. Constantly going for hay-makers is what tired him out in that fight, not conditioning.

I will say, Buster's outfighting style is always going to cause Tyson the most trouble regardless of circumstance. There's no shame in losing to Tony Tucker who has wins over McCall, Jimmy Young and Orlin Morris on his resume too.

You seem to know your boxing...kudos. There's a great classic boxing forum at eastsideboxing.com btw

[Frett_Bored]

Not to mention Tucker was doing pretty good against Tyson until he broke his right hand (according to him) early in the fight.

He was doing the same thing - jab, stick, and clench when necessary. If I remember correctly, he won the first two or three rounds on the scorecards and rocked him a few times.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

In Tyson's prime, from 1985 to 1989, no heavyweight this year or yesteryear could have beaten him. Remember that Michael Spinks fight? There are fighters who are in bad spirits, or their heart is not really in it or what have you, but Spinks (who was one of the best heavyweights of the 80s) looked and boxed like he was afraid of dying. I have never seen a fighter in my life be terrified of an opponent like that. None of Tyson's failures later in his career can ever erase that kind of greatness.

[DEATH ROW JOE]

Juan Roldán. Don't think he ever won the belt but he held his own against Hearns and Hagler. Knocked Hagler down although Hagler claims to have slipped. Here he is beating the crap out of James the Heat Kinchen on the Hagler/Leonard under card. Roldán never even took a seat between rounds.

Roldán vs Kinchen
http://youtu.be/rgKKlPwSMyY

[monkeyboy32]

Michael Moorer
Vernon Forrest

[Machado]

Johnny Tapia from New Mexico. I believe he passed away 2 years ago.
Just saw the HBO film made about this life and boxing career. The fucking guy was an addict. If not for that he might have won more than 5 World Championship fights.