So Scott Brown Won.

[tylamonroe]

And I came in my pants. Welcome back America. I missed you.

[Thebottomline]

And I came in my pants. Welcome back America. I missed you.

Amen! A Republican actually won in the state of Massachusetts, thats gotta tell you something right there, liberalism doesn't work and the people of Massachusetts have realized it. Massachusetts has a taste of that healthcare that the dems are trying to pass for the rest of the country and they dont like it.

[KneelandBobDylan]

And I came in my pants. Welcome back America. I missed you.

Amen! A Republican actually won in the state of Massachusetts, thats gotta tell you something right there, liberalism doesn't work and the people of Massachusetts have realized it. Massachusetts has a taste of that healthcare that the dems are trying to pass for the rest of the country and they dont like it.

Coakley ran a shitty campaign, but kudos for Brown. Let's see what's up when he runs for re-election in 3 years.

I mean these are his options, He can vote with the Dems occasionally....since he did run as a "moderate", and piss off the conservatives....or......He can have a straight no record with the rest of America and piss off VERY liberal Mass. I hope he enjoys his 3 years regardless.

[VinnieKulick]

Maybe he'll just vote PRESENT like Obama did.

[Thebottomline]

Coakley ran a shitty ran, but kudos for Brown. Let's see what's but when he runs for re-election in 3 years.

I mean these are his options, He can vote with the Dems occasionally....since he did run as a "moderate", and piss off the conservatives....or......He can have a straight no record with the rest of America and piss off VERY liberal Mass. I hope he enjoys his 3 years regardless.

Hey man I was reading the comments that are being posted in one of the stories going on over at cnn.com about Brown's win and I came across this comment from a person going by atteckus (or something like that) here it is:

I'm a Mass Liberal who voted for Brown today. I don't support his philosophy, and I'm rid of him in 3 years. But I used him today to send a message. It was a message to national Democrats that you cannot take your liberal base for granted. You cannot bargain away the public option. You cannot impose a Cadillac tax instead of a Millionaires' tax. You cannot impose restrictions on a woman's right to choose. Brown is a protest vote. I want the vacillators and gutless wonders to know that they are not safe bargaining away the liberal agenda they were elected on in 2008. I want shove-it-down-their-throats results. I don't want bargained compromises. You were given a super-majority for a reason. You must DELIVER on that agenda and nothing else. Some argue, you need 60 votes. Not true. That is why there is the reconciliation procedure where you only need 50 votes. Ram a liberal bill home without the aid of moderates. That's called legislating. If you remain gutless, your base will vote against you in the next election. The putrid healthcare bill, as it now stands, is unpreferable. That is why Scott Brown is elected today.


Kind of interresting!

[tin00can]

I posted this on another board, but it works here:

It is both funny and sad to see the monumental arrogance and stupidity of the democratic party in action. They assumed that with the election of Obama they'd have a free and easy ride, and that they could continue to engage in their petty power-struggle bickering and abuse, and that nobody would notice. They also thought they could throw anybody out there in Mass and get them elected. Meanwhile, the republicans (like they usually seem to do after a big loss) got smart after the 2008 election and decided to take a page from the dem playbook by putting up a candidate who (what a concept) had personality and charisma and was quite electable.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the dems learn from this election.

[chickenona]

I don't think it was a matter of "realizing liberalism doesn't work". I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this dude garnered a lot of votes from MA libs who don't want to see this shitty, watered-down health care bill passed.

[MCSmallDink_]

The spin in here is quite amusing.

[SmokeyRamone]

I don't know why the guy won, but I'm glad he did because it will make it that much harder for the dems to push through their terribly flawed health care plan, they elected a republican governor a few years ago, so it's not like they're all a bunch of flaming liberals who'll vote blindly for any democrat that runs, so it's not really that shocking that they'd elect a republican senator, they already have their own state run health care plan (with it's own mandate) and pay one of the highest state tax rates in the country, this is just speculation, not spin, but maybe Mass voters are sick of tax increases and decided that a republican senator would be the lesser of two evils, espescially when it comes to spending and tax increases

[Crazy Levi]

Hey the Dems fucked up, and it's not like they were getting shit done anyway with their puny "majority."

Say what you will about George W, but that was one effective President.

At least now the Dems can blame the Republicans for not getting anything done.

It does amuse me to see people prancing around with glee and declaring health care reform dead. You never know what will happen - it's not always that hard to weasle a vote out of somebody.

[bane]

I don't think reform is dead. The current bills (both versions) are dead. There are republicans who are intersted in healthcare reform, just not in the specific manner that the dems tried to cram down their throats. All it will take is one or two repubs to get involved and they can get something done. The dems are going to have to either involve the republicans (as they should have from the beginning) or they can sit back and do nothing and take their chances on playing the blame game in the elections.

[Crazy Levi]

Very interesting. Since the word from the White House seems to be that they will be doubling down on health care and other issues and may try to ram it through using reconciliation. The "nuclear option". Even knowing what they know now. If that is the case, that is mindblowing.

actually this would be a refreshing approach if you ask me. The Dems need to go all Republican on their asses.

[Crazy Levi]

The dems are going to have to either involve the republicans (as they should have from the beginning) or they can sit back and do nothing and take their chances on playing the blame game in the elections.

The fact is if the economy gets better, none of this matters, the Dems will win. If it doesn't, they are likely fucked. Pretty much how it usually goes.

Except of course 2000...that will ALWAYS be a headscratcher for me.

"We got Peace, everyone is rich, and there are blowjobs aplently. We need change, vote for the Republicans!"

And it worked! (Kinda...but of course that's another story)

[bane]

Maybe. I think a large part of this current backlash is that the economy is still shit and people are saying "I don't give a fuck about this reform right now, I want a job." If the economic recovery continues on this slow pace, the dems will lose seats, probably 5 or 6 or so. It's almost a foregone conclusion at this point. I mean Massafuckingchutsetts elected a republican senator. How the hell does that happen? Who's next, California?

[tylamonroe]

Who's next, California?

Boxer's bitch ass is going down next. She has two strong challengers. One mod, Fiorini (sp?) and one tea party, Devore.

[Ugmo]

Maybe I'm a tard, but I don't see how this affects health care reform. The Senate bill passed at Christmas... surely Scott Brown's victory doesn't retroactively scuttle that. The two bills were going to go into reconciliation anyway, right?

I think it would be positive if it does somehow mean that the poor Senate bill doesn't go through. What the Dems need to do is use the House bill (which has popular support) as the template and force those in the Senate who are obstructing it to answer to the people. Whether it's Joe Liebermann, Ben Nelson, the Republicans... whoever. The Democrats need to say "Hey America, these are the people who are blocking what you want. There is nothing a Senator fears more than losing reelection - put pressure on these guys to do what the public wants. I could see a Susan Collins or an Olympia Snowe wilting under that pressure. But it has to be a bill the people want, and not the crap the Senate originally passed.

[Ugmo]

There are republicans who are intersted in healthcare reform, just not in the specific manner that the dems tried to cram down their throats.

If there are any Republicans who are actually interested in health care reform, then that interest takes a back seat to depriving the Democrats of a victory. We've seen that over and over again.

[Ugmo]

Who's next, California?

Boxer's bitch ass is going down next. She has two strong challengers. One mod, Fiorini (sp?) and one tea party, Devore.

Some Tea Party lunatic is going to win in California? I guess if it happened in Massachusetts anything is possible. The Democrats really need to do a better job on this next campaign.

[Drunk Kennedy]

The Democrats need to say "Hey America, these are the people who are blocking what you want.

oh my

[Ugmo]

The Democrats need to say "Hey America, these are the people who are blocking what you want.

oh my

Why the LOLing dude? The House plan is very close to what a majority of Americans want.

[Thebottomline]

Maybe. I think a large part of this current backlash is that the economy is still shit and people are saying "I don't give a fuck about this reform right now, I want a job." If the economic recovery continues on this slow pace, the dems will lose seats, probably 5 or 6 or so. It's almost a foregone conclusion at this point. I mean Massafuckingchutsetts elected a republican senator. How the hell does that happen? Who's next, California?

I stated this on a thread on here last weekend, the tide is changing. I belong with the Teamsters union and it would be a safe bet that over 80% of the people who belong in the Teamster union in my local voted Democrat in the last election. I know at my work thats a safe ratio. If they could vote now I seriously that majority of them will vote democrat now especially with this healthcare reform. We have a cadilac plan and that was going to be fucked with by the government (i know it was going to be 2018 until the unions would start paying their tax increase on the plan) and the fact that we took a pay cut on the last barganing agreement so we could get better healthcare just made us irritated.

I see majority of the people around here fed up with with the constent need of the dems always coming up with a excuses to raise taxes and in their tax increase campaigns it always the schools, the law enforcement, etc. But what it comes down now as everyone is figuring out, we have less of these services now than we did 30 years ago and there is more people living up and more people paying more in taxes and now everyone is questioning, where in the fuck is all the money going? I can actually see Oregonians voting in a Republican Governor on the next election which is later this year. It's been since 1982 when Oregon last elected a Republican governor.

Keep up the good work there democrats!

[Ugmo]

Maybe I'm a tard, but I don't see how this affects health care reform. The Senate bill passed at Christmas... surely Scott Brown's victory doesn't retroactively scuttle that. The two bills were going to go into reconciliation anyway, right?

Okay, I found the answer - both chambers would have to approve the bill that comes out of reconciliation. Or the House could simply accept the Senate bill, which is pretty unlikely.

They really could make a virtue out of necessity here. Produce a better bill in reconciliation and force the Republicans to fillibuster if they want to. Let em stand there reading the phone book at three in the morning and see how popular that move would be.

[bane]

Maybe I'm a tard, but I don't see how this affects health care reform. The Senate bill passed at Christmas... surely Scott Brown's victory doesn't retroactively scuttle that. The two bills were going to go into reconciliation anyway, right?

It won't get through reconcilliation. Many that would have previously voted for it won't now. This is a game changer.

I think it would be positive if it does somehow mean that the poor Senate bill doesn't go through. What the Dems need to do is use the House bill (which has popular support) as the template and force those in the Senate who are obstructing it to answer to the people. Whether it's Joe Liebermann, Ben Nelson, the Republicans... whoever. The Democrats need to say "Hey America, these are the people who are blocking what you want. There is nothing a Senator feers more than losing reelection - put pressure on these guys to do what the public wants. I could see a Susan Collins or an Olympia Snowe wilting under that pressure. But it has to be a bill the people want, and not the crap the Senate originally passed.

You're right, they need to listen to what the people want. That includes all the people. They need a compromise or we will retain the status quo. Snowe is a key part of that compromise. Watch and see.

[lerxstcat]

There are republicans who are intersted in healthcare reform, just not in the specific manner that the dems tried to cram down their throats.

If there are any Republicans who are actually interested in health care reform, then that interest takes a back seat to depriving the Democrats of a victory. We've seen that over and over again.

I'd like Bane to name 5 Republican legislators who have put forth their own plans for healthcare reform. I don't think these compassionate conservatives really exist in our government.

[lerxstcat]

You're right, they need to listen to what the people want. That includes all the people. They need a compromise or we will retain the status quo. Snowe is a key part of that compromise. Watch and see.

It doesn't really have to include all the people, just a majority through their representatives. That's the way the government is set up.

So the mandate to buy inurance may not be constitutional. What IS constitutional is the government's right to tax. So simply put the public option into place, and you either take that or stay private if you want and can afford. Taxes go up to pay for it and it is eminently constitutional to do it that way.

Either way, if the majority wills it, all will pay. Just as people with no kids pay local taxes for the local schools, it's part of life in the 21st century. Be glad you're not stacking blocks to build a pyramid like our remote ancestors.

[bane]

There are republicans who are intersted in healthcare reform, just not in the specific manner that the dems tried to cram down their throats.

If there are any Republicans who are actually interested in health care reform, then that interest takes a back seat to depriving the Democrats of a victory. We've seen that over and over again.

I'd like Bane to name 5 Republican legislators who have put forth their own plans for healthcare reform. I don't think these compassionate conservatives really exist in our government.

5 seperate plans? Really? You can't do that with dems dude. I can easily name 5 republican legislators that have put forth ideas on health care reform. They may not be the same ideas that you endorse, but those are the breaks dude. If they're going to pass anything at all it will be a bipartisan deal. The dems had their chance and they blew it.

[bane]

You're right, they need to listen to what the people want. That includes all the people. They need a compromise or we will retain the status quo. Snowe is a key part of that compromise. Watch and see.

It doesn't really have to include all the people, just a majority through their representatives. That's the way the government is set up.

So the mandate to buy inurance may not be constitutional. What IS constitutional is the government's right to tax. So simply put the public option into place, and you either take that or stay private if you want and can afford. Taxes go up to pay for it and it is eminently constitutional to do it that way.

Either way, if the majority wills it, all will pay. Just as people with no kids pay local taxes for the local schools, it's part of life in the 21st century. Be glad you're not stacking blocks to build a pyramid like our remote ancestors.

You miss my point. The majority of the people don't want what you think they want. Yesterday's election is indicative of that. A lot of this comes down to money. People are nervous. The economy is in the toilet and the dems are trying to pass a bill that will take more money out of people's pockets without helping the majority of them. Chalk it up to bad timing if you want, but neither of the current bills will become law.

[Ugmo]

Problem with the "compromise" angle the way I see it is that a solid majority of Americans want a progressive plan, which is not what the Republicans want at all. Once you start shifting towards what the Republicans want you end up with crap like the original Senate bill, which no one liked. That's why I don't think a compromise will work. A majority of the public won't get what it wants unless the Dems pretty much take the House plan and try and force it through the Senate. I think that can be done, but it requires some the Dems to show some stones.

[Ugmo]

You miss my point. The majority of the people don't want what you think they want. Yesterday's election is indicative of that.

Not sure I agree with that. There is definitely widespread support for health care reform, and for progressive health care reform at that. I think yesterday's election was the result of a lot of things, not least of which being frustration with how the Democrats have failed to enact more progessive legislation despite a supermajority.

[bane]

It ain't gonna happen Ugmo. Simply put, we'll have partisan gridlock as usual, but there are some parts of those bills that are popular across the board, things like doing away with pre existing condition clauses and anti trust exemptions etc. Those things can, and I think will, get done, but this gigantic progressive change isn't going to happen any time soon, not in this economy anyway. It's about the money dude.

Edited (because I just saw your other post): I think you may find that the progressive plan that the majority once endorsed is no longer endorsed by the majority. I think it has everything to do with the slow pace of the economic recovery and people who may have previously been onboard changing their minds once the financial realities began to sink in.