Should pot be legal?

[VinnieKulick]

Since UPINSMOKE has his panties in a wad in the welfare thread, what do you think? And, since we're talking about it, WHY do you think the way you do?

[Calexxia]

I feel it should be legal, because it would provide taxation income for the states/country. It would also potentially reduce the overstress on our police departments.

[bane]

Yes, I think it should be legal. It's the most harmless recreational drug out there and the tax benefits as well as the money saved trying to police it could be huge.

[upinsmoke]

Since UPINSMOKE has his panties in a wad in the welfare thread, what do you think? And, since we're talking about it, WHY do you think the way you do?

Who's got panties in a wad? It was a discussion.

Yeah, it should be legal. This is the reason: I think a human animal should be able to medicate itself in any way it sees fit, without the interference of other nosy animals.

Do you think porn should be illegal, Vinnie? I mean, since it causes the end to so many marriages & relationships? Pretty dangerous stuff for us monkeys. Someone should take away ALL the sharp objects in our lives.

Hail Momma Government!

[VinnieKulick]

There he goes again.

Apple and Oranges.

Or, Weeds and Movies, whichever sounds best.

You get your panties in a wad when you can't answer a question without bringing the "what about this? what about that? " bullshit to the discussion.

Bottom line is, if it's legal, it's legal, if it's not, then it's not.
Just because you LIKE something that's illegal, doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't mean it's right.

I am sure pedophiles would use your logic, that animals shouldn't stick their nose into other animals business.

[upinsmoke]

There he goes again.

Apple and Oranges.

Or, Weeds and Movies, whichever sounds best.

You get your panties in a wad when you can't answer a question without bringing the "what about this? what about that? " bullshit to the discussion.

Bottom line is, if it's legal, it's legal, if it's not, then it's not.
Just because you LIKE something that's illegal, doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't mean it's right.

I am sure pedophiles would use your logic, that animals shouldn't stick their nose into other animals business.

Here, let's use your analogy:

"Just because you LIKE something that's illegal, doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't mean it's right."

quickly becomes this:

"Just because you LIKE something that's legal, doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't mean it's right."

So, you are admitting that it is OK to use a technicality to deny someone welfare benefits. You can come back and say "nuh-nuh", but everything you've posted here so far backs up my claim.

Do you think alcohol should be illegal, if so, why? Do you think tobacco/nicotine should be illegal, and if so, why?

Is there ANYthing that is currently illegal that should be made legal? I mean, we're using the HYPOTHETICAL argument of whether welfare should be denied upon the positive outcome of a drug test, so it shoud be no problem for you to answer some of these questions, no?

[VinnieKulick]

Nice try. The "technicality" of a law is laughable. In a society, and a nation where we value laws, the 'technicality' of them should be an absolute.

If you want your drug of choice to be legalized, research your state constitution and address this 'grievance' you have in the appropriate manner.

And, for the last time, you keep bringing up LEGAL shit, and comparing it to ILLEGAL shit. It doesn't hold water when talking about why a particular substance SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be legal.

[upinsmoke]

Nice try. The "technicality" of a law is laughable. In a society, and a nation where we value laws, the 'technicality' of them should be an absolute.

If you want your drug of choice to be legalized, research your state constitution and address this 'grievance' you have in the appropriate manner.

And, for the last time, you keep bringing up LEGAL shit, and comparing it to ILLEGAL shit. It doesn't hold water when talking about why a particular substance SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be legal.

There's no "try" to it. So, you want to deny welfare benefits based on a technicality of something being "illegal"... we understood you the first time. You can't deny it or take it back.
So, answer the question:

Do you think alcohol should be illegal, if so, why? Do you think tobacco/nicotine should be illegal, and if so, why?

Is there ANYthing that is currently illegal that should be made legal? I mean, we're using the HYPOTHETICAL argument of whether welfare should be denied upon the positive outcome of a drug test, so it shoud be no problem for you to answer some of these questions, no?

What, exactly, would be the reason you would deny someone welfare benefits, just because they partake in something that is illegal, even though no more dangerous than legal drugs? How do you know the people getting the drugs didn't pay for it with a favor? That wouldn't exactly be using taxpayer funds for drugs, now would it? But, you say that you would deny them for a technicality of the drug being illegal. I'd hate to be your friend or neighbor. You sound like a stoolie.

[chickenona]

There is increasing evidence that marijuana has medical value. This evidence is both statistical and empirical, a lot of it informal because everybody knows someone who smokes pot.

The morally correct thing would be to, at the very least, change its status as a classified narcotic, something the AMA is pushing the government to do.

The legally correct thing to do would be to legalize it because were it no longer a black market drug, most of the problems associated with the drug itself would be rendered moot because the ONLY thing making pot dangerous right now are the laws that enable it to be manufactured and sold by criminals. Its status as a "gateway drug" is also contingent on its black market status, because there will always be some asshole unscrupulous dealer who'll guide young pot buyers to more dangerous and lucrative (for the dealer) drugs.

It is medically impossible to fatally overdose on pot. Pot is more readily available to minors than alcohol right now because of its unregulated black market status. There are medicinal applications for pot that are known, and some that need to be researched further. Pot is LEGITIMATE medicine.

All that said, however, by all means keep it illegal - at least until I've made a nice fat black-market profit off my next harvest. So yeah, illegal for at least ninety more days = a lot of cash for ME.

As long as pot remains illegal, it is a cash crop for criminals rather than for the government and law-abiding citizens. Legalize and you'll turn that shit right around. The end.

[Skate4RnR]

No, it should stay banned as we should ban alchohol, tobacco, and fried foods as they are dangerous.

[JakeYonkel]

Having never smoked in my life...

Yes, they should legalize and tax the everloving shit out of it.

Someone driving drunk is FAR more dangerous than the damage they could cause while being high.

[bane]

What, exactly, would be the reason you would deny someone welfare benefits, just because they partake in something that is illegal, even though no more dangerous than legal drugs?

That's a pretty good point. If the issue is the illegality, are we going to deny welfare to people who get speeding tickets? How about any other misdemeanor charge? If the issue is, they'll spend all their money on dope, or that they're too strung out to get a job, then the alcohol question could be valid. Should alcoholics be denied welfare? How about alcoholics who break traffic laws?

[KneelandBobDylan]

Read it, learn it, love it.

http://www.jackherer.com/chapter05.html

[Skate4RnR]

Marijuana use leads to rape and heroin addiction. Haven't you guys seen the PSA ads made with our tax money?

[VinnieKulick]

Do you think alcohol should be illegal, if so, why? Do you think tobacco/nicotine should be illegal, and if so, why?

Is there ANYthing that is currently illegal that should be made legal? I mean, we're using the HYPOTHETICAL argument of whether welfare should be denied upon the positive outcome of a drug test, so it shoud be no problem for you to answer some of these questions, no?

What, exactly, would be the reason you would deny someone welfare benefits, just because they partake in something that is illegal, even though no more dangerous than legal drugs? How do you know the people getting the drugs didn't pay for it with a favor? That wouldn't exactly be using taxpayer funds for drugs, now would it? But, you say that you would deny them for a technicality of the drug being illegal. I'd hate to be your friend or neighbor. You sound like a stoolie.

Why is it that you can't just say "YES" to the question posed in the thread?
It's red herring time with you, because you can't just say "YES" all you seem capable of doing is complaining that YOUR drug of choice isn't legal while other drugs ARE legal.

And, like I said in the other thread, until drinking and cigarettes are made illegal, then there is no problem IMO with people using those while getting benefits from the state.

[lerxstcat]

What, exactly, would be the reason you would deny someone welfare benefits, just because they partake in something that is illegal, even though no more dangerous than legal drugs?

That's a pretty good point. If the issue is the illegality, are we going to deny welfare to people who get speeding tickets? How about any other misdemeanor charge? If the issue is, they'll spend all their money on dope, or that they're too strung out to get a job, then the alcohol question could be valid. Should alcoholics be denied welfare? How about alcoholics who break traffic laws?

The other issue is that almost ALL welfare recipients receive welfare because they have dependent children. I personally know that a single white male in Mississippi can't even APPLY for it, period.

So really, you are advocating starving the children to punish the parents who drug. That's why I'm against the testing for welfare recipients.

As for pot, legalize it. Great revenue stream for the government, it's less harmful than alcohol or any other intoxicant, what's not to like? Pizza delivery sales would go through the roof, stimulating the economy!

[Supersonic]

Should pot be legal? Yes

Why do I think this? Because I do. I enjoy it yet do not harm anyone around me whilst having a smoke. I don't go to work high, nor do I drive or operate heavy/dangerous machinery whilst high. I don't get any hangovers from smoking pot but I do after drinking alcohol (more and more these days).

I really don't see the problem with pot. Most UK politicians of my generation have smoked it, many have admitted it. They are just too scared to try to legalise it as the opposing parties will use it as a stick to beat them with and score political points.

[chickenona]

Wherever you see a discretionary law like this one in place and it seems to make no sense, follow the money.

Pot as a medicine is still illegal primarily because even if it were proven to have medicinal benefits, it's a plant first and a drug second. As a medicinal application, it is ready to use in its natural state. Since Big Pharma relies on synthesized and manufactured drugs for its livelihood, there is no profit to be made from a natural substance. Unlike, say, a painkiller like Vicodin or an antidepressant like Zoloft, pot's manufacture cannot be controlled and monopolized.

Hemp can be used to make paper and textiles more easily and less expensively than timber and cotton, so it's a threat to those industries.

As an inebriant, it's cheaper, less dangerous and less habit-forming than alcohol, which were it legal, would make it a direct, superior competitor in the market to alcohol. So it's a threat to that industry.

Finally, prohibition has created a law-enforcement industry all its own that would collapse were it legal.

As is pointed out in the Jack Herer link that KBD provided, pot remains illegal primarily through the crusading of one guy, Harry Anslinger. Anslinger managed to get hemp illegalization pushed through Congress primarily through ignorance of the drug's true effects and fear tactics. (My personal favorite of his arguments was that pot was "proven to encourage white women to seek relations with Negroes.") When Nixon was pondering decriminalization early in the seventies, a MADD-style group of women, frightened by the effects recreational pot was having on their own kids, successfully lobbied to kill decriminalization efforts. In the eighties, Ronald Reagan cited a much-vaunted study that used brain-damaged lab monkeys as "proof" that pot kills brain cells. What wasn't learned until much later was that the manner in which the study was conducted deprived the animals of oxygen, which was what actually caused the brain damage.

With this many big-business and government groups relying on the status quo of drug laws for their profit margin and livelihood, it's no surprise that prohibition continues. A lot of people, both "good" and "bad", benefit from prohibition. The only people who really don't benefit at all from prohibition are the public.

[upinsmoke]

Why is it that you can't just say "YES" to the question posed in the thread?
It's red herring time with you, because you can't just say "YES" all you seem capable of doing is complaining that YOUR drug of choice isn't legal while other drugs ARE legal.

And, like I said in the other thread, until drinking and cigarettes are made illegal, then there is no problem IMO with people using those while getting benefits from the state.

Uhhh, I DID say "yes". I gave a reason for it. You must have the attention span of a goat. It has not a thing to do with being my "drug of choice". The other drugs ARE appropriate to the discussion, whether you understand that or not. The discussion of them is NOT a red herring, as they complement the issue.


Try answering this, since you can't seem to understand the issue:

Do you think alcohol should be illegal, if so, why? Do you think tobacco/nicotine should be illegal, and if so, why?

Is there ANYthing that is currently illegal that should be made legal? I mean, we're using the HYPOTHETICAL argument of whether welfare should be denied upon the positive outcome of a drug test, so it shoud be no problem for you to answer some of these questions, no?

What, exactly, would be the reason you would deny someone welfare benefits, just because they partake in something that is illegal, even though no more dangerous than legal drugs? How do you know the people getting the drugs didn't pay for it with a favor? That wouldn't exactly be using taxpayer funds for drugs, now would it? But, you say that you would deny them for a technicality of the drug being illegal. I'd hate to be your friend or neighbor. You sound like a stoolie.

[SmokeyRamone]

the war on drugs is set up as unwinnable by design, so many people make their living off of it, law enforcement at every level, prosecutors, defense lawyers, judges, prison guards, without dealers, growers, and users to go after, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs, and a lot of government agencies are going to lose funding, these people not only have major influence over the system, they are the system, and if it were ever totally legalized, way too many of them would lose their livelihoods, there's enough power and influence there to keep it from ever happening on any major scale, even if an individual state were to totally legalize and tax it, there's no way they'd let it happen, the Justice Department has repeatedly said they don't' have to follow state law

there's just too much money to be made in tax revenue, in raids, I don't know how many people depend on the war on drugs to make a living, but it's got to be at least in the tens if not hundereds of thousands and I don't ever see that changing

[Crazy Levi]

Of course it should be legal. It's fairly harmless and could raise much wanted revenue.

[ROADHEAD]

I think it should be legal and taxed to high heaven. That being said, I've never tried it. Not once.

[Caustic Queen]

I think the whole issue of making it ILLEGAL was completely ridiculous.

It's a plant... and herb... a weed if you will... much like a dandelion or crab grass.. are they going to make them illegal too if we find a way to feel good off of them as well?
I'm really surprised that White Willow bark (a natural pain reliever) isn't on the banned list.

P.S... making BellaDonna in its pure form illegal was freaking retarded too.

[AnselmosSyringe]

Thanks, Grandma & Grandpa!

[chickenona]

Hahaha @ the old-timey propaganda and the totally unsubtle racist underpinnings of the old anti-pot movement.

Racism was the prime motivator for Anslinger and the propaganda filmmakers. Harry Anslinger was a very confused man. He channeled his fear of black people - black men in particular - into this big screwed-up crusade against a fucking plant.

[lerxstcat]

Hahaha @ the old-timey propaganda and the totally unsubtle racist underpinnings of the old anti-pot movement.

Racism was the prime motivator for Anslinger and the propaganda filmmakers. Harry Anslinger was a very confused man. He channeled his fear of black people - black men in particular - into this big screwed-up crusade against a fucking plant.

He may have had a point... I got stoned one time and ended up fucking a Negress! She was a stripper too, 2-for-1 in the depavity derby! But we improved race relations just a little bit right then and there, hands-on! NOLA is a great town!

[Tommy]

Yes it should be legal.

Why?

When I was 19 I was arrested for poss. w/ intent. I wasn't a dealer. I did some kid I barely knew a favor and picked up a bag for him on a pot run to the city (bad idea, I know). Turns out he was in trouble for something and I got narc'd out.

They took it way too seriously. 9mm to my head, about 5-6 squad cars, 2 detectives. It was straight out of COPS. A whole shit show for some 19 year old w/ a $20 bag. No exaggeration here BTW. It was a for real $20 bag.


Anyway, I was supposed to go to the Air Force in about a month. Was done w/ everything except actually leaving for boot camp. Had a job lined up after boot camp as an MP ironically.

Now, IMO what I did was illegal, no question. But I did nothing "wrong". No one will ever convince me that I did. The fact is some fuck who couldn't take his medicine for whatever it was that he did, came into my life and threw a wrench in the works. I'm not saying I regret how my life turned out because of it, but he had no business, IMHO, coming into my life and fucking my shit up.

Cops sat me down wanting to know all this and that. Thinking there was some cartel in our suburban NJ town. I told them nothing, which was easy because there was nothing to tell. Now I ask, what good came out of me getting arrested?

The cops were able to seize my car and my lawyer made about $6000 off me. Those are the only parties who benefited here as far as I know.

I went to jail, and I have a felony record now. What was the upside here? How much did all this cost the town and the county and the state? The cost/benefit just isn't there.



And I still smoke weed just about every day, so.......yeah.

[thejuggernaut]

It's astonishing how many folks there are who think legalization of pot will result in fewer police eyeballs on them.

[The Cusack]

I'd like to see Pot and other currently illegal drugs become legal and highly regulated by the federal government. The revenue from taxation would of course be a positive but I also think that putting the majority of drug dealers out of business could be a more important potential result of legalization. De-stigmatization and legalization would also make substance abuse and rehab programs more accessible and encourage more people that need them to use them.

[chickenona]

It's astonishing how many folks there are who think legalization of pot will result in fewer police eyeballs on them.

Hahaha, it WILL. You can't underestimate the ridiculous amount of funding that goes towards fighting the war on drugs, on all levels - local, state and federal law enforcement. And pot is always good for a quick and dirty bust to justify a few of those dollars.