So why didn't the GOP reform health care before?

[NickasInSaltLick]

Yeah, the one that took ideas from the Heritage foundation, which the current bill built off of and resembles. I just can't believe all the idiots out there that think it's "the end of America." This resembles "socialized" medicine in no way. Medicare is much more of a socialized system than this is.

Yeah, exactly! Not only that, but it's virtually identical to Romneycare in Massachusetts (which Scottie Brown also voted for), and Romney is out there right now trying to explain why the bill is bad for America to salvage his chances of winning the Republican nomination in 2012. It's high comedy, I tell you.

I hope he gets the GOP nomination then, because it'll be very easy for the obama campaign to bury him with his own plan. Now Mitt, explain to us why this was the thing for Massachusetts to do, but not for the nation! That dude just comes off like a Visitor to me. Scratch the skin and there's a reptile underneath...

Utards love the guy though. And he's considered the front-runner in 2012. Really Republicans? You really want to be like Utah?

[bane]

Largest expansion of economy in our history.... you're right ugmo, TONS of more important things to do than bankrupt the country to give 20 million 'free' health care.

I've also heard that now is not the right time as you are in a recession. So why wasn't it a good time with the expansion of your economy?

Basically my original question still stands. What was stopping the GOP from doing something to reform your country's health care?

Because the GOP's constituents are primarily affluent enough to afford their own insurance, or have a job that helps them do it etc., and health care reform has never been a priority. It's one of those, "wouldn't it be nice if we could do this" type things that most people of that demographic don't really care about all that much.

[Crazy Levi]

Largest expansion of economy in our history.... you're right ugmo, TONS of more important things to do than bankrupt the country to give 20 million 'free' health care.

I've also heard that now is not the right time as you are in a recession. So why wasn't it a good time with the expansion of your economy?

Basically my original question still stands. What was stopping the GOP from doing something to reform your country's health care?

Because the GOP's constituents are primarily affluent enough to afford their own insurance, or have a job that helps them do it etc., and health care reform has never been a priority. It's one of those, "wouldn't it be nice if we could do this" type things that most people of that demographic don't really care about all that much.

This is pretty accurate except for the whole "wouldn't it be nice" part.

The Republicans absolutely love things the way they are and never had even the most fleeting desire to change things.

Fuck 'em.

[Ugmo]

Because the GOP's constituents are primarily affluent enough to afford their own insurance, or have a job that helps them do it etc., and health care reform has never been a priority. It's one of those, "wouldn't it be nice if we could do this" type things that most people of that demographic don't really care about all that much.

The one thing I would change in that statement is that it's not their constituents, its their voters. Every single GOP no voter on Sunday has thousands of people in their districts who can't afford health insurance or can't get it due to a pre-existing condition.

Or you look at places like the South or especially Appalachia, which are heavily red but not necessarily that affluent. Which is why I think it comes down to politics. It's not about making things better for the people in their districts, it's about political calculation.

[bane]

I did use the word "primarily" Ugmo. If more of their constituents considered health care reform a priority than those who don't, the GOP would have done something about it years ago. The simple truth is that a big chunk of American voters don't care about this issue much. They're comfortable with the status quo and are very wary of any talk of government intervention.

[Crazy Levi]

I did use the word "primarily" Ugmo. If more of their constituents considered health care reform a priority than those who don't, the GOP would have done something about it years ago. The simple truth is that a big chunk of American voters don't care about this issue much. They're comfortable with the status quo and are very wary of any talk of government intervention.

I keep hearing this but I don't believe it.

It's not like Obama didn't mention health care reform during the campaign. Yet the majority of America voted for him.

[lerxstcat]

The Republican Party is primarily the party of the wealthy and those who aspire to be wealthy. It espouses hard work and self-reliance, which is good.

But it ALSO preaches a "I got mine, fuck the peons" mentality which preaches to the poorer party members "You're party of the elite, when you work your way up you don't want to share with the plebes down below."

It's trickle-down propaganda, and most Republicans will never become wealthy. But as wannabes they are a;lready greedy and selfish.

It's like Amway. they tell you you can become one of the elite, and it may be theoretcaly possible, but most who join will never get there. GOP - the Grand Old Ponzi Scheme.

[Ugmo]

Bane, not to be a nitpicker, but I still don't agree. If affluent means "wealthy", then I doubt that there is a Congressional district anywhere in the country in which a majority of the voters are wealthy. Middle class, maybe, but skyrocketing premiums, pre-existing condition clauses and the cancelation of coverage when people get sick apply primarily to the middle class.

Look at this statistic:

Harvard researchers say 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were caused by health problems—and 78% of those filers had insurance

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... =rss_daily

Surely that applies just as much to constituents in Republican districts as it does to those in Democratic districts.

The reason the Republican lawmakers don't care about health care reform is because it isn't important to the GOP, not because it isn't important to their constituencies.

[bane]

I did use the word "primarily" Ugmo. If more of their constituents considered health care reform a priority than those who don't, the GOP would have done something about it years ago. The simple truth is that a big chunk of American voters don't care about this issue much. They're comfortable with the status quo and are very wary of any talk of government intervention.

I keep hearing this but I don't believe it.

It's not like Obama didn't mention health care reform during the campaign. Yet the majority of America voted for him.

I didn't say anything about the majority of Americans dude. I said the majority of republicans. That's the simple truth. If the majority of Americans felt the same way the majority of republicans do, McCain would be president. The question was why the GOP hasn't done anything about it. The answer is, because their constituents don't give a fuck about it.

[Ugmo]

The Republican Party is primarily the party of the wealthy and those who aspire to be wealthy. It espouses hard work and self-reliance, which is good.

But it ALSO preaches a "I got mine, fuck the peons" mentality which preaches to the poorer party members "You're party of the elite, when you work your way up you don't want to share with the plebes down below."

It's trickle-down propaganda, and most Republicans will never become wealthy. But as wannabes they are a;lready greedy and selfish.

It's like Amway. they tell you you can become one of the elite, and it may be theoretcaly possible, but most who join will never get there. GOP - the Grand Old Ponzi Scheme.

Dude, we see that all the time right here on the War Board! Remember during the campaign when Obama pledged to raise taxes on inviduals making more than 250,000 bucks a year? And a bunch of guys on here who presumably don't make anything close to that were like "He can't do that! That's not fair!"

[bane]

Bane, not to be a nitpicker, but I still don't agree. If affluent means "wealthy", then I doubt that there is a Congressional district anywhere in the country in which a majority of the voters are wealthy. Middle class, maybe, but skyrocketing premiums, pre-existing condition clauses and the cancelation of coverage when people get sick apply primarily to the middle class.

Look at this statistic:

Harvard researchers say 62% of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were caused by health problems—and 78% of those filers had insurance

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... =rss_daily

Surely that applies just as much to constituents in Republican districts as it does to those in Democratic districts.

The reason the Republican lawmakers don't care about health care reform is because it isn't important to the GOP, not because it isn't important to their constituencies.

You're making assumptions about what you think people should consider important. Those people in Apalachia that you referrenced may really NEED this, but that doesn't mean that they want it. A lot of those folks would rather suffer than have the big bad government anywhere close to their personal business. You may think they're nuts, but it's not your place or mine to tell them they're wrong. That's what voting is for. It's that old "I know what's good for you" argument. There is no argument that our system is broken by the influence of special interests on congressional action and the use of propaganda to sell that to the people, but both parties do that shit. Make no mistake though, if the people made enough noise about it, the GOP would have done something about it just like the dems did.

[Ugmo]

You're making assumptions about what you think people should consider important. Those people in Apalachia that you referrenced may really NEED this, but that doesn't mean that they want it. A lot of those folks would rather suffer than have the big bad government anywhere close to their personal business. You may think they're nuts, but it's not your place or mine to tell them they're wrong. That's what voting is for. It's that old "I know what's good for you" argument. There is no argument that our system is broken by the influence of special interests on congressional action and the use of propaganda to sell that to the people, but both parties do that shit. Make no mistake though, if the people made enough noise about it, the GOP would have done something about it just like the dems did.

Oh, I agree. I'm not arguing that! It's why I think it's so astonishing that they vote reliably for the Republicans!

[Crazy Levi]

You're making assumptions about what you think people should consider important. Those people in Apalachia that you referrenced may really NEED this, but that doesn't mean that they want it. A lot of those folks would rather suffer than have the big bad government anywhere close to their personal business. You may think they're nuts, but it's not your place or mine to tell them they're wrong. That's what voting is for. It's that old "I know what's good for you" argument. There is no argument that our system is broken by the influence of special interests on congressional action and the use of propaganda to sell that to the people, but both parties do that shit. Make no mistake though, if the people made enough noise about it, the GOP would have done something about it just like the dems did.

You are right about this...most of those dumbfuck hicks don't know what's best for them, which is why they keep voting Republican.

But you seriously think that they'll want to give this stuff back? As soon as Grammy Johnson and Pa-Pa start getting their $250 checks, they might start warming up to what their negro President just signed into law a couple minutes ago.

Medicaid and Social Security were equally controversial and it didn't take long for them to become 3rd rails due to their populariy.

[bane]

You're making assumptions about what you think people should consider important. Those people in Apalachia that you referrenced may really NEED this, but that doesn't mean that they want it. A lot of those folks would rather suffer than have the big bad government anywhere close to their personal business. You may think they're nuts, but it's not your place or mine to tell them they're wrong. That's what voting is for. It's that old "I know what's good for you" argument. There is no argument that our system is broken by the influence of special interests on congressional action and the use of propaganda to sell that to the people, but both parties do that shit. Make no mistake though, if the people made enough noise about it, the GOP would have done something about it just like the dems did.

You are right about this...most of those dumbfuck hicks don't know what's best for them, which is why they keep voting Republican.

But you seriously think that they'll want to give this stuff back? As soon as Grammy Johnson and Pa-Pa start getting their $250 checks, they might start warming up to what their negro President just signed into law a couple minutes ago.

Medicaid and Social Security were equally controversial and it didn't take long for them to become 3rd rails due to their populariy.

Where did I say they'd want to give it back? That was never the question. The question was why the GOP never did anything about it. I have pretty strong convictions when it comes to dictating to the people what's good for them. That elitist shit pisses me off. It may actually be what's good for them, but it's not my place to tell them that. I think that we have to leave it to each person to make up their own minds and vote accordingly. Whether I think they're idiot hicks or not is irrelevent.

[bane]

Oh, I agree. I'm not arguing that! It's why I think it's so astonishing that they vote reliably for the Republicans!

Well, there is more that goes into a person's political affiliation than their own best interest sometimes. There are moral reasons. There are philosophical reasons and there are inhereted prejudices. Take some guy from West Virgina that works in coal mine and makes 30 grand a year. You might think he'd vote democrat because that's the party that on the surface would best represent him, but dig deeper and maybe the guy is seriously religeous or maybe he's got a deep seated distrust of the government etc. Maybe he just votes the way his Daddy voted. Who the hell knows? Still, it's his vote, and his business what he does with it, you know? It's really not any different from some rich as fuck bleeding heart Hollywood guy that votes against his own wallet because that's what his conscience tells him he should do.

[Ugmo]

I have pretty strong convictions when it comes to dictating to the people what's good for them. That elitist shit pisses me off. It may actually be what's good for them, but it's not my place to tell them that. I think that we have to leave it to each person to make up their own minds and vote accordingly.

It's not just that though. There is also the cost side. The Republicans stood by idly for years and years (not to mention actively blocking Clinton's efforts to fix health care) while health care costs exploded to currently 16 percent of GDP. America has the most expensive health care system in the world by far... it ain't good for the economy (nor for the deficit) for people to be spending that much on health care. And then there is the aspect that when so many people are uninsured, it makes things more expensive for everyone who is insured.

In other words, it's not just about telling people what's good for them, it's about fiscal responsibility and being fair to those who are insured. Even if you accept that Republican voters weren't screaming for health care reform (which is true), fairness and fiscal responsibility alone dictate that they should have done something about it. But then these are the same guys who gave us the Iraq war, two huge unfunded tax cuts and an unfunded prescription drugs bill, so fiscal responsibility has never been important to them either.

Well, there is more that goes into a person's political affiliation than their own best interest sometimes. There are moral reasons. There are philosophical reasons and there are inhereted prejudices. Take some guy from West Virgina that works in coal mine and makes 30 grand a year. You might think he'd vote democrat because that's the party that on the surface would best represent him, but dig deeper and maybe the guy is seriously religeous or maybe he's got a deep seated distrust of the government etc. Maybe he just votes the way his Daddy voted. Who the hell knows? Still, it's his vote, and his business what he does with it, you know? It's really not any different from some rich as fuck bleeding heart Hollywood guy that votes against his own wallet because that's what his conscience tells him he should do.

True - good point.

[bane]

I have pretty strong convictions when it comes to dictating to the people what's good for them. That elitist shit pisses me off. It may actually be what's good for them, but it's not my place to tell them that. I think that we have to leave it to each person to make up their own minds and vote accordingly.

It's not just that though. There is also the cost side. The Republicans stood by idly for years and years (not to mention actively blocking Clinton's efforts to fix health care) while health care costs exploded to currently 16 percent of GDP. America has the most expensive health care system in the world by far... it ain't good for the economy (nor for the deficit) for people to be spending that much on health care. And then there is the aspect that when so many people are uninsured, it makes things more expensive for everyone who is insured.

In other words, it's not just about telling people what's good for them, it's about fiscal responsibility and being fair to those who are insured. Even if you accept that Republican voters weren't screaming for health care reform (which is true), fairness and fiscal responsibility alone dictate that they should have done something about it. But then these are the same guys who gave us the Iraq war, two huge unfunded tax cuts and an unfunded prescription drugs bill, so fiscal responsibility has never been important to them either.

Good points. I can't disagree with that. There isn't much argument that the supposed "conservative" party hasn't been fiscally conservative for a long, long time.

[TravisBickelsMohawk]

You're making assumptions about what you think people should consider important. Those people in Apalachia that you referrenced may really NEED this, but that doesn't mean that they want it. A lot of those folks would rather suffer than have the big bad government anywhere close to their personal business. You may think they're nuts, but it's not your place or mine to tell them they're wrong. That's what voting is for. It's that old "I know what's good for you" argument. There is no argument that our system is broken by the influence of special interests on congressional action and the use of propaganda to sell that to the people, but both parties do that shit. Make no mistake though, if the people made enough noise about it, the GOP would have done something about it just like the dems did.

You are right about this...most of those dumbfuck hicks don't know what's best for them, which is why they keep voting Republican.

But you seriously think that they'll want to give this stuff back? As soon as Grammy Johnson and Pa-Pa start getting their $250 checks, they might start warming up to what their negro President just signed into law a couple minutes ago.

Medicaid and Social Security were equally controversial and it didn't take long for them to become 3rd rails due to their populariy.

Good point, but do you honestly think these Teabagger morons are going to warm up to Obama? These are the same idiots who want government to stay out of the medicare.

I do hope that some of them finally look past the man's race and see that he's a pretty decent human being who only wants the best for all US citizens.

[Nevermind]

he's a pretty decent human being who only wants the best for all US citizens.

[Nevermind]

I did use the word "primarily" Ugmo. If more of their constituents considered health care reform a priority than those who don't, the GOP would have done something about it years ago. The simple truth is that a big chunk of American voters don't care about this issue much. They're comfortable with the status quo and are very wary of any talk of government intervention.

I keep hearing this but I don't believe it.

It's not like Obama didn't mention health care reform during the campaign. Yet the majority of America voted for him.

The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

[KneelandBobDylan]

I did use the word "primarily" Ugmo. If more of their constituents considered health care reform a priority than those who don't, the GOP would have done something about it years ago. The simple truth is that a big chunk of American voters don't care about this issue much. They're comfortable with the status quo and are very wary of any talk of government intervention.

I keep hearing this but I don't believe it.

It's not like Obama didn't mention health care reform during the campaign. Yet the majority of America voted for him.

The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

And no one voted for McCain just because he was white? Besides that, Obama campaigned on HCR. Please stfu, and gtfo.

[Nevermind]

And no one voted for McCain just because he was white? Besides that, Obama campaigned on HCR. Please stfu, and gtfo.

Of course some people voted for McCain because he was white, but we weren't talking about him. Pay attention dildo. I know he campaigned on health care. I said so. Since you couldn't read my post, I'll try again and type it slower for you. The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

[Nemesis]

From following this across the border, I keep hearing that almost everyone thinks that healthcare reform was severely overdue. So my question is:

When the GOP were in power over the last 20+ years, why didn't they push through their own far reaching reform? The opportunity was there all along.

Because the Republicans believe health care is a privilege not a right.

Watch them on t.v. Hannity is an example of this. So is O'Reilly.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

And no one voted for McCain just because he was white? Besides that, Obama campaigned on HCR. Please stfu, and gtfo.

Of course some people voted for McCain because he was white, but we weren't talking about him. Pay attention dildo. I know he campaigned on health care. I said so. Since you couldn't read my post, I'll try again and type it slower for you. The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

A lot of people voted for him because we couldn't afford 4 more years of Republican incompetence. Jake Yonkel is a prime example.

[Nevermind]

And no one voted for McCain just because he was white? Besides that, Obama campaigned on HCR. Please stfu, and gtfo.

Of course some people voted for McCain because he was white, but we weren't talking about him. Pay attention dildo. I know he campaigned on health care. I said so. Since you couldn't read my post, I'll try again and type it slower for you. The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

A lot of people voted for him because we couldn't afford 4 more years of Republican incompetence. Jake Yonkel is a prime example.

Yeah and look where we are now with dumb and dumber. (You decide which is which.) More debt, more deficits, less jobs, higher taxes, more spending, government run auto industries, government run financial institutions, government run banks, and soon government run health care.
You know, that "republican incompetence" didn't seem so bad compared to what we have now.

[Nevermind]

And to go back to the original post, here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nce-are-s/

"When we started this health care debate a year ago, 85 percent of the American people had health insurance, and 95 percent of the 85 percent were happy with it."

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Of course some people voted for McCain because he was white, but we weren't talking about him. Pay attention dildo. I know he campaigned on health care. I said so. Since you couldn't read my post, I'll try again and type it slower for you. The average Obama supporter didn't care about health care. All they cared about was that he was cool, read off a teleprompter well, and for a lot of them, that he was black.

A lot of people voted for him because we couldn't afford 4 more years of Republican incompetence. Jake Yonkel is a prime example.

Yeah and look where we are now with dumb and dumber. (You decide which is which.) More debt, more deficits, less jobs, higher taxes, more spending, government run auto industries, government run financial institutions, government run banks, and soon government run health care.
You know, that "republican incompetence" didn't seem so bad compared to what we have now.

Recession over, economy rebounding finally, 'Government Motors' is heading for it's first profit in years, the 'government banks' have paid back all the cash they borrowed and we're not taking it in the ass from the insurance companies anymore Oh yeah, there's no more torture, secret prison camps and other crap usually associated with places like North Korea and Nazi Germany.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

And to go back to the original post, here:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... nce-are-s/

"When we started this health care debate a year ago, 85 percent of the American people had health insurance, and 95 percent of the 85 percent were happy with it."

Again the "I've got mine, fuck the rest". We heard you the first time.

[Nevermind]

Recession over, economy rebounding finally, 'Government Motors' is heading for it's first profit in years, the 'government banks' have paid back all the cash they borrowed and we're not taking it in the ass from the insurance companies anymore Oh yeah, there's no more torture, secret prison camps and other crap usually associated with places like North Korea and Nazi Germany.

I see you didn't dispute more debt, more deficits, less jobs, higher taxes, more spending. Thanks for playing.
Anything uncomfortable is torture in a whacked out liberals eyes. And Obama condones "torture" anyway:
U.S. Says Rendition to Continue, but With More Oversight
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/us/po ... ition.html

[tin00can]

Recession over, economy rebounding finally, 'Government Motors' is heading for it's first profit in years, the 'government banks' have paid back all the cash they borrowed and we're not taking it in the ass from the insurance companies anymore Oh yeah, there's no more torture, secret prison camps and other crap usually associated with places like North Korea and Nazi Germany.

I see you didn't dispute more debt, more deficits, less jobs, higher taxes, more spending. Thanks for playing.
Anything uncomfortable is torture in a whacked out liberals eyes. And Obama condones "torture" anyway:
U.S. Says Rendition to Continue, but With More Oversight
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/us/po ... ition.html

So, waterboarding isn't "torture", it just makes you "uncomfortable"?