NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

[KneelandBobDylan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100526/ap_ ... ero_mosque

NEW YORK – After hours of contentious public comment, a New York City community board voted late Tuesday to support a plan to build a mosque and cultural center near ground zero.

"It's a seed of peace," board member Rob Townley said. "We believe that this is significant step in the Muslim community to counteract the hate and fanaticism in the minority of the community."

The vote was 29-to-1 in favor of the plan, with 10 abstentions. The move by the Manhattan Community Board 1, while not necessary for the building's owners to move forward with the project, is seen as key to obtaining residents' support.

Some board members wanted to postpone a vote until the next meeting to gather more information about the project and the organizations sponsoring it. But the motion failed.

The meeting was unruly, with project opponents jeering at speakers and yelling comments such as "You're building over a Christian cemetery!" while holding signs that read, "Show respect for 3000," among other things.

Many said they were not opposed to a mosque — just not one that's two blocks from ground zero.

The families of Sept. 11 victims "would be wounded by erecting a mega mosque so close to the place where their loved ones were massacred," said Viviana Hernandez, a chaplain. "Even though they may have altruistic reasons, the real terrorists will see it as a win on their side."

Tea party activist Mark Williams has called the proposed center a monument to the terror attacks.

The organizations sponsoring the project said they are trying to establish a vibrant and inclusive-world class facility.

Plans for the Cordoba House include a performing arts center, swimming pool, culinary school, child care facilities and worship space.

It would provide 150 full-time jobs, 500 part-time jobs and an investment in more than $100 million in infrastructure in the city's financial district, according to Daisy Khan, spokeswoman for the Cordoba House.

Khan's husband, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, executive director of the Cordoba Initiative, one of the project's sponsors, said he understood the pain that people have about 9/11. But he said his community and congregation were among those that died in the attacks.

"We have condemned the terror of 9/11," he said. "We have worked to ensure that our mosques are not recruiting grounds for terrorists."

Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer said in a statement that by supporting the multi-faith community and cultural center, the board "sent a clear message that our city is one that promotes diversity and tolerance."

Stringer has been the target of disparaging remarks by Williams for supporting the plans and has defended his position and denounced offensive speech directed at him or at Muslims.

He said before the vote that he understood the sensitivities of the families of 9/11 victims.

"I don't think anybody wants to do anything to disrespect those families. They made the ultimate sacrifice," he said. "At the same time, we have to balance diversity and look for opportunities to bring different groups together."

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said there were no security concerns about building a mosque in the area.

The American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative have said that they bought the building in 2009 and planned to break ground later this year. It could take up to three years to build the Cordoba House. A Friday prayer service has been held at the building since September 2009.

Besides the political and social opposition to the project, city officials say the plan also could be hindered by a decades-old proposal to give landmark status to a building that would be replaced by the mosque and center.

City officials say the current building, constructed between 1857 and 1858 in the Italian Renaissance palazzo style, is historically and architecturally significant.

Bruce Wallace, who lost a nephew on 9/11, said the center can change the misperceptions about Islam.

"The moderate Muslim voice has been squashed in America," he said. "Here is a chance to allow moderate Muslims to teach people that not all Muslims are terrorists."

[wylde342]

Unreal. Just unreal.

This country is turning into a pussy SO big that one day, the rest of the world is just going to fuck it.

Edit:

My little line there sucks. Yes this makes me very angry, but what makes me more angry is that our government is more concerned with appeasing a group than respecting fallen Americans and their families. It wasn't the IRA, it wasn't the Russians, and it wasn't anyone else. It was radical Muslims who did it and while I certainly don't believe each and every one of them are terrorists, the facts are Muslim terrorists killed innocent Americans in this spot. Have some respect for your own people first.

I'll learn not to fly off the handle one day.

[JakeYonkel]

Nothing to say other than this is horribly insensitive to the families of 3000 people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Build it anywhere else, but right there? Really?

[KneelandBobDylan]

Nothing to say other than this is horribly insensitive to the families of 3000 people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Build it anywhere else, but right there? Really?

Totally agree.

[Ugmo]

but what makes me more angry is that our government is more concerned with appeasing a group than respecting fallen Americans and their families.

After hours of contentious public comment, a New York City community board voted late Tuesday to support a plan to build a mosque and cultural center near ground zero.

[thejuggernaut]

Nothing to say other than this is horribly insensitive to the families of 3000 people who died at the hands of Muslim fanatics. Build it anywhere else, but right there? Really?

Agreed. However, it's a tough call. If you refuse it, do you really want the likes of CAIR and ACLU screaming cries of bigotry ?

In a perfect world, the fed would use the power of the PA to use surveillance on Mosques and various other known/suspected places of "worship" with a reputation for encouraging violence under the cloak of "religious freedom".

[Crazy Levi]

Unreal. Just unreal.

This country is turning into a pussy SO big that one day, the rest of the world is just going to fuck it.

Edit:

My little line there sucks. Yes this makes me very angry, but what makes me more angry is that our government is more concerned with appeasing a group than respecting fallen Americans and their families. It wasn't the IRA, it wasn't the Russians, and it wasn't anyone else. It was radical Muslims who did it and while I certainly don't believe each and every one of them are terrorists, the facts are Muslim terrorists killed innocent Americans in this spot. Have some respect for your own people first.

I'll learn not to fly off the handle one day.

You won't even be able to SEE the "terror mosque" from Ground Zero. This is New York City, not whatever shithouse falls town you live in where nothing is taller than 2 stories.

This is a complete non-story whipped up by the right wing lunatics, as usual. Make yourself useful and go protest Darwin or something.

[wylde342]

Unreal. Just unreal.

This country is turning into a pussy SO big that one day, the rest of the world is just going to fuck it.

Edit:

My little line there sucks. Yes this makes me very angry, but what makes me more angry is that our government is more concerned with appeasing a group than respecting fallen Americans and their families. It wasn't the IRA, it wasn't the Russians, and it wasn't anyone else. It was radical Muslims who did it and while I certainly don't believe each and every one of them are terrorists, the facts are Muslim terrorists killed innocent Americans in this spot. Have some respect for your own people first.

I'll learn not to fly off the handle one day.

You won't even be able to SEE the "terror mosque" from Ground Zero. This is New York City, not whatever shithouse falls town you live in where nothing is taller than 2 stories.

This is a complete non-story whipped up by the right wing lunatics, as usual. Make yourself useful and go protest Darwin or something.

Easily done, but it's nice to know you're still here buddy.

[vlad]

Another "panites in a twist" moment.

It's two blocks away, not ON ground zero. And to whoever said Americans are "pussified"..that's crock of shit. Embrace the fucker, don't freak over it, ignore it. Show the radical minority of Islam that we aren't freaked out (we aren't..right? We aren't, collectively a bunch of pussies..right?) and they have won a victory because we are freaked out by the very word Islam.

And as for the right wing using words like "insensitive"....hey! Embrace all that liberal speak, dudes.

[JakeYonkel]

I don't consider myself a pussy, because I, like anybody with a spine (or at least common sense) would have voted against it. Don't lump the majority in with the minority.

[vlad]

I don't consider myself a pussy, because I, like anybody with a spine (or at least common sense) would have voted against it. Don't lump the majority in with the minority.

I didn't call you a pussy, however...think about it. By voicing opposition to the whole religion because of what a small, small minority did you have let them "win".

Should the Tea Party not be allowed to have a site near the Oklahoma City bombing site? After all, there is an anti-government strain in them that is a milder form than what McVeigh espoused, but it is related.

It would like me protesting a Southern Baptist Church being built in the PNW because the Phineas Priesthood went on a bank robbing and bombing spree here. Though, come to think of it, it was Southern Baptists who came to our house with guns in the middle of the night. So yeah, fuck those misogynistic cretins.

[JakeYonkel]

I don't think anyone is voicing opposition to the entire religion (well OK, I'm sure some are). It's just that it seems like no sense went into putting this place so close in proximity to the spot where 3000 Americans were murdered by religious zealots OF said religion. And this is happening IN freaking America!

It boggles the mind.

[vlad]

I don't think anyone is voicing opposition to the entire religion (well OK, I'm sure some are). It's just that it seems like no sense went into putting this place so close in proximity to the spot where 3000 Americans were murdered by religious zealots OF said religion. And this is happening IN freaking America!

It boggles the mind.

A thought game....what if the terrorists/murderers had been, say Catholic, espousing a Catholic cause (hell, some rouge element of the IRA or something). Would it be insensitive for the Catholic Church to do the same thing? IN freaking America!

edit: keep in mind, that midnight Baptist gunfest was in part because we were Catholic..the other, not quite "American". IN freaking America!

[JakeYonkel]

Right, but that's irrelevant. If the Westboro Baptist Church bombed a gay night club and then put up some sort of edifice nearby the site I have a feeling the left would freak out a bit.

[wylde342]

Yes, we are pussies. Wanna know why - read this thread.

There are people here who are more afraid of what the Muslim reaction would be to say, "Nope - build it somewhere else" than the disrespect it shows their fallen country men and women. That's what I'm talking about. People are scared to death to "Upset" other groups and THAT is being a pussy. For instance, Crazy Levi disagrees with literally anything and everything I say. Do I cower before saying things b/c I might upset him? Hell no. Does he before attacking me and my beliefs? No. Would both of us probably have a good time drinking some beers and making fun of each other - most likely. Being afraid of others is the most simple definition of being a pussy. If you can't see that, or if you THINK you'd rather reason away your patriotism for the sake of "Upsetting" others, then you too are a pussy.

Again, I have no problem with Muslims that aren't trying to kill me or anyone that hasn't wronged them. But I would have zero problem explaining to them in a diplomatic way, "Listen, unfortunately for your project, we're going to have to ask you to move it elsewhere. You can still set it up and pray and do whatever you wish."

..and if it were Icelander's who flew fucking planes into the towers I'd say the same shit to them.

Go ask your grandparents if they're still alive what they think of this. Ask someone who fought in a war for us. Ask them if they think you're a pussy or not when you say, "Sure, I want the Muslims to be able to set up a Mosque RIGHT there."

Pussy.

[vlad]

Right, but that's irrelevant. If the Westboro Baptist Church bombed a gay night club and then put up some sort of edifice nearby the site I have a feeling the left would freak out a bit.

But it isn't Al-Qaeda that is putting up a mosque, but the religion, just as any other Christian church would not be Fred Phelps and his crazy family.

You equated the Westboro Baptist Church with ALL of Islam....just as we shouldn't equate all of Christianity with the White Identity Churches who have been violent and yes, even bombed.

As for wylde's comment...yeah, I'll ask my husband who fought in a war what he thinks..oh yeah, he says "fuck you". We aren't afraid of the Muslim reaction....more disaspointed in the American reaction. History just never stops repeating itself.

[JakeYonkel]

I used WBC as an example because it's more likely to happen here than an IRA catastrophe, that's all.

And while WBC is technically "Christian" I don't think anyone really considers them and the Catholic church (from your example) to be linked at all.

But remember, this is the American slant on things - to me WBC are a bunch of kooks, but I don't trust very many Arabs at all. There are fore more terrorist Arabs than terrorist Christians, I'd say. (& I know this could segue right into the other thread going on as we speak)

[wylde342]

Right, but that's irrelevant. If the Westboro Baptist Church bombed a gay night club and then put up some sort of edifice nearby the site I have a feeling the left would freak out a bit.

But it isn't Al-Qaeda that is putting up a mosque, but the religion, just as any other Christian church would not be Fred Phelps and his crazy family.

You equated the Westboro Baptist Church with ALL of Islam....just as we shouldn't equate all of Christianity with the White Identity Churches who have been violent and yes, even bombed.

As for wylde's comment...yeah, I'll ask my husband who fought in a war what he thinks..oh yeah, he says "fuck you". We aren't afraid of the Muslim reaction....more disaspointed in the American reaction. History just never stops repeating itself.

How are you disappointed in the reaction? It passed 29-1. Don't let my little patriotic feelings get in the way "One world, one people," or whatever it is your after.

[vlad]

I used WBC as an example because it's more likely to happen here than an IRA catastrophe, that's all.

And while WBC is technically "Christian" I don't think anyone really considers them and the Catholic church (from your example) to be linked at all.

But remember, this is the American slant on things - to me WBC are a bunch of kooks, but I don't trust very many Arabs at all. There are fore more terrorist Arabs than terrorist Christians, I'd say. (& I know this could segue right into the other thread going on as we speak)

Arab or Muslim? The two don't mean the same thing. Rony Seikaly and Tony Shalhoub are Arab, but Christian,as are John Abizaid and Doug Flutie, Isha Sesay and Zain Verjee and Asieh Namdar are Muslims, but not Arab. I went down the CNN International roster there...Hala Gorani is both...

And to wylde again....you see "capitulation", I see something else. One world, one people? What the fuck do you think the United States is? While the Puritans were landing on Plymoth Rock, the Spanish were also settling big chunks...check that, before the Puritans landed, 55 years or so, in fact, the Spanish founded a city. The Russians were moving east into Alaska and the lower 48 all the way down to California. Though later than the Puritans, it certainly wasn't America yet either. Did you know that some of the old Native folks still speak Russian (apparently Palin was unaware of this though I don;'t know how she could miss the onion domes that dot western Alaska), and even into the 90's, Kodiak had one of only three RO seminaries in the world?

Not to mention the Filipinos that worked in the fish plants. Another language and the food! Though now, most of the plants are worked by Mexicans.

Or around old squareheads who spoke Norwegian and Finnish. Even had newspapers...lost now. this was in Seattle, Astoria, etc.

Was a time not that long ago, where a Presidential candidate was suspected of dual loyalites because he was Catholic. And maybe Irish, too.

Not mention the indigenous populations who still speak their original tongues. Sneaky buggers, using it to talk on the radio during fishing. I used to visit my aunt who taught on the Navajo reservation. Some of the first words I heard were Navajo or Spanish (we lived in old Tuscon before the snowbirds moved into Arizona). But spoken by American all..unless you want to call the Code-Talkers unreliable. Let's get rid of those "differences", should have done it sooner...those pesky Navajos hanging on their old ways. So useless and unAmerican.

I guess I've always lived around Americans, born and raised who didn't buy into the WASP definition of what an American should be. It's really quite wonderful.

[JakeYonkel]

I did mean Muslim and not Arab... I do tend to use the two interchangably, right or wrong.

[vlad]

I did mean Muslim and not Arab... I do tend to use the two interchangably, right or wrong.

I know. it happens a lot.

But here is a list of Muslim countries by population. Only one is Arab.

Country Number of Muslims

Indonesia 170,310,000
Pakistan 136,000,000
Bangladesh 106,050,000
India 103,000,000
Turkey 62,410,000
Iran 60,790,000
Egypt 53,730,000
Nigeria 47,720,000
China 37,108,000

[wylde342]

I used WBC as an example because it's more likely to happen here than an IRA catastrophe, that's all.

And while WBC is technically "Christian" I don't think anyone really considers them and the Catholic church (from your example) to be linked at all.

But remember, this is the American slant on things - to me WBC are a bunch of kooks, but I don't trust very many Arabs at all. There are fore more terrorist Arabs than terrorist Christians, I'd say. (& I know this could segue right into the other thread going on as we speak)

Arab or Muslim? The two don't mean the same thing. Rony Seikaly and Tony Shalhoub are Arab, but Christian,as are John Abizaid and Doug Flutie, Isha Sesay and Zain Verjee and Asieh Namdar are Muslims, but not Arab. I went down the CNN International roster there...Hala Gorani is both...

And to wylde again....you see "capitulation", I see something else. One world, one people? What the fuck do you think the United States is? While the Puritans were landing on Plymoth Rock, the Spanish were also settling big chunks...check that, before the Puritans landed, 55 years or so, in fact, the Spanish founded a city. The Russians were moving east into Alaska and the lower 48 all the way down to California. Though later than the Puritans, it certainly wasn't America yet either. Did you know that some of the old Native folks still speak Russian (apparently Palin was unaware of this though I don;'t know how she could miss the onion domes that dot western Alaska), and even into the 90's, Kodiak had one of only three RO seminaries in the world?

Not to mention the Filipinos that worked in the fish plants. Another language and the food! Though now, most of the plants are worked by Mexicans.

Or around old squareheads who spoke Norwegian and Finnish. Even had newspapers...lost now. this was in Seattle, Astoria, etc.

Was a time not that long ago, where a Presidential candidate was suspected of dual loyalites because he was Catholic. And maybe Irish, too.

Not mention the indigenous populations who still speak their original tongues. Sneaky buggers, using it to talk on the radio during fishing. I used to visit my aunt who taught on the Navajo reservation. Some of the first words I heard were Navajo or Spanish (we lived in old Tuscon before the snowbirds moved into Arizona). But spoken by American all..unless you want to call the Code-Talkers unreliable. Let's get rid of those "differences", should have done it sooner...those pesky Navajos hanging on their old ways. So useless and unAmerican.

I guess I've always lived around Americans, born and raised who didn't buy into the WASP definition of what an American should be. It's really quite wonderful.

Please do not pretend to know what I think. You disagree with my point, and that's fine. THAT is what makes America.

I find it offensive to have a Muslim mosque at ground zero. A LOT of people do. I think from a lot of the press clippings I've seen, that the community would rather say "No," but they are afraid of the backlash. That to me is un American. That to me, is being a pussy.

For someone who touts our diversity, you sure did a good job of discounting people like me: your fellow American. You chide me for simply having defensive patriotic feelings about people I know who were killed there.

[Crazy Levi]

I find it offensive to have a Muslim mosque at ground zero. A LOT of people do. I think from a lot of the press clippings I've seen, that the community would rather say "No," but they are afraid of the backlash. That to me is un American. That to me, is being a pussy.

For someone who touts our diversity, you sure did a good job of discounting people like me: your fellow American. You chide me for simply having defensive patriotic feelings about people I know who were killed there.

Why can't you read?

There is NOT a Mosque at ground zero. There couldn't be. A bunch of office buildings are being constructed at ground zero.

There is a mosque several blocks away. You won't be able to see it. Unless you are in a helicopter.

The mosque used to be 6 blocks away in Tribeca. Now it's 3 blocks away.

What should the rule be? How far away should it be for your tastes?

You are a religious nut who lives in some town far removed geographically and ideologically from NYC. You have no idea what NYC is about, or how the people here feel. We are used to shit being close together, yet far apart at the same time. There are thousands of people who live on my block. Yours probably has 20.

"The community" doesn't give a shit about it here. It's business as usual. That's why the COMMUNITY BOARD voted 29-1 in favor, because there was no good reason to deny the permit.

As usual, it's a Fox News (the New York Post) and a bunch of out-of-town zeaolts who are stirring up the shitstorm. You are completely out of your element. It's as if I decided to weigh in one whether or not your aunt Betsy should be granted a zoning permit to build an above ground swimming pool in her front yard.

[vlad]

To wylde..I think Crazy Levi said it pretty well. A couple of blocks in NYC, hell a couple of floors in a NYC skyscraper, can be an entirely different neighbourhood.

For someone who touts our diversity, you sure did a good job of discounting people like me: your fellow American. You chide me for simply having defensive patriotic feelings about people I know who were killed there.

I don't discount YOU, but it is pretty plain that you are discounting a lot of Americans. There are as many Muslim American as their are Jewish Americans. And the first known Muslim to come to this country came here in the early 16th century. Again, long before the "real" Americans showed up. There have been mosques in this country for nearly a hundred years, official ones that is. It isn't as though Muslims just showed up with their "unAmericanness" after 9/11.

And Muslims died on 9/11, too. Don't they count?

You are my fellow American, just as my Pakistani born Muslim OBGYN is.

[wylde342]

I find it offensive to have a Muslim mosque at ground zero. A LOT of people do. I think from a lot of the press clippings I've seen, that the community would rather say "No," but they are afraid of the backlash. That to me is un American. That to me, is being a pussy.

For someone who touts our diversity, you sure did a good job of discounting people like me: your fellow American. You chide me for simply having defensive patriotic feelings about people I know who were killed there.

Why can't you read?

There is NOT a Mosque at ground zero. There couldn't be. A bunch of office buildings are being constructed at ground zero.

There is a mosque several blocks away. You won't be able to see it. Unless you are in a helicopter.

The mosque used to be 6 blocks away in Tribeca. Now it's 3 blocks away.

What should the rule be? How far away should it be for your tastes?

You are a religious nut who lives in some town far removed geographically and ideologically from NYC. You have no idea what NYC is about, or how the people here feel. We are used to shit being close together, yet far apart at the same time. There are thousands of people who live on my block. Yours probably has 20.

"The community" doesn't give a shit about it here. It's business as usual. That's why the COMMUNITY BOARD voted 29-1 in favor, because there was no good reason to deny the permit.

As usual, it's a Fox News (the New York Post) and a bunch of out-of-town zeaolts who are stirring up the shitstorm. You are completely out of your element. It's as if I decided to weigh in one whether or not your aunt Betsy should be granted a zoning permit to build an above ground swimming pool in her front yard.

LMFAO at what you think I am and where I live. You pretty much couldn't be any more off the target. God guys like you are a dime a dozen anymore. Some flunkie who averaged a 1.8 in high school, fucked off in college even worse, and has a job they won't even admit to in a PM, telling others they're "Stupid."

I passed you by at the age of 22 and you'll NEVER catch up. And material *stuff* is the furthest thing from what I'm talking about pussy.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I passed you by at the age of 22 and you'll NEVER catch up. And material *stuff* is the furthest thing from what I'm talking about pussy.

[tin00can]

Wylde sure has some anger issues.

Actually, a few blocks away is a perfect place for it. Fuck all the pussies like wylde who get butthurt about it.

[Crazy Levi]

Wylde sure has some anger issues.

Actually, a few blocks away is a perfect place for it. Fuck all the pussies like wylde who get butthurt about it.

Agreed on all counts.

[Crazy Levi]

LMFAO at what you think I am and where I live. You pretty much couldn't be any more off the target. God guys like you are a dime a dozen anymore. Some flunkie who averaged a 1.8 in high school, fucked off in college even worse, and has a job they won't even admit to in a PM, telling others they're "Stupid."

I passed you by at the age of 22 and you'll NEVER catch up. And material *stuff* is the furthest thing from what I'm talking about pussy.

LOL this again?

My job that I can't admit to is better than your job that you can't admit to.

Who else here has a job they can't admit to in a PM? You guys are losers!

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

LMFAO at what you think I am and where I live. You pretty much couldn't be any more off the target. God guys like you are a dime a dozen anymore. Some flunkie who averaged a 1.8 in high school, fucked off in college even worse, and has a job they won't even admit to in a PM, telling others they're "Stupid."

I passed you by at the age of 22 and you'll NEVER catch up. And material *stuff* is the furthest thing from what I'm talking about pussy.

LOL this again?

My job that I can't admit to is better than your job that you can't admit to.

Who else here has a job they can't admit to in a PM? You guys are losers!

Why is it that all these conservative clowns like Wylde342 and adam are all rich, successful businessmen hence their opinion is more valid because those who disagree are either unemployed welfare royalty or menial laborers too lazy to become successful like them. Of course it's unverifiable because they won't give out personal information but we should just trust them because no one lies on the internet. In fact, I was just discussing this with my friends Warren Buffett and Steve Forbes after they hit me up for some stock tips. The nerve of some people.