Turnabout Is Fair Play

[vlad]

The fact remains that the democrat party did have a supermajority and squandered it. Had they been more centrist in their proposals they would have had health care done by now, 60 votes or not. But they chose otherwise.

Dude, it was the Blue Dogs that stopped healthcare....that is, the "centrist" Democrats....not that many, but enough...

The Democrats do not march in lock step..it's a good thing and it's a bad thing...

And I gotta ask, how about all those years when the GOP controlled Congress....was healthcare not an issue then? Why yes, yes it was! But they didn't do jack squat, except pass that bloated Medicare bill....and watch health insurance costs skyrocket...

Note, I am not at all happy with the way things are going with quite a few of the Congress Critters on my side. However, there has been more conversation and actual action on healtcare in the last year than there was for all those years when the GOP was in charge...ooops, we shouldn't mention that...

[Tommy]

I hate to break it to you but the FF's wouldn't want an income tax at all. It's an American thing to not want to pay your taxes.


Again, playing Monday morning QB from 5000 miles away is bad for your arguments.

Heh.....the FF didn't want to tax? Ever hear of the Whiskey Rebellion? And the way the Whiskey act was structured, small producers wound up being dunned for a lot more....the large producers only had to pay a flat fee, the smaller ones, taxed by the gallon. Guess who one of the larger whiskey producers was? The father of our country.

note: I still admire GW a lot, as well as the other FFs, but let's not pretend they were any better or were more wiser....or less greedy. We can read anything we want back onto them (I do it myself!)....they may not have liked taxes, except the ones they liked, but then they probably didn't like the idea that a Black man could be President either...or even some low-life dirt White dirt farmer either...or Sludge posters...

As for the distance that Ugmo is, big fucking deal. Do you get your info by town crier? There's this thing called the TV and this other thing called the Intertubes....what makes you think you know more than he just because your ass is plopped nearer to the action? Are you actually attending Congress, sitting in on the WH meetings? If not...then you are no more informed than he...one doesn't absorb the information by osmosis or proximity.

This would be like saying that someone in Dutch Harbor couldn't discuss something going on in Washington, DC...because they are so far away! Never mind those folks in Hawaii or any of the US bits in the western Pacific, American citizens all!

And when Battle was posting from overseas, would you have told him he was less informed and too far away? Any soldier, whether in the ME, Korea, or Europe? Or is it only people who disagree with that you say this to?

I actually live here. Despite what you may think, Obama's policies have a much greater effect on me than they would Ugmo. How do you not see the difference? Like I said before, I don't go on about politics in other nations because I wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

[JakeYonkel]

Most of the time when people invoke the founding fathers, I want to cock-punch them. Sure, we can make reasonable assumptions about what they wanted and how they possibly would have reacted to certain things, but we can't be sure how accurate those assumptions are. We're just making a wild guess.

I have good intel that says the Founding Fathers would think you're a tool.

[Ugmo]

I actually live here. Despite what you may think, Obama's policies have a much greater effect on me than they would Ugmo. How do you not see the difference? Like I said before, I don't go on about politics in other nations because I wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

Wait, wait, wait... the first point I can understand. It affects you more than me, therefore you think I should shut up. Okay, I can appreciate that, although the chances of me actually shutting up are pretty much zero.

But this "I wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about." You already don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You didn't realize there were two different health care bills on the table, you didn't realize a solid majority of Americans approve of the public option, you didn't realize (or are not willing to admit) that Republican obstructionism ultimately resulted in a watered down Senate bill. You don't appear to have followed this issue all that much, so maybe you should bone up on the facts before you start accusing others of not knowing what they're talking about.

Also, Europe > Danger Danger

[JakeYonkel]

Also, Europe > Danger Danger

[Ugmo]

That's what I'm saying. The opposition party didn't stop shit. They couldn't have. Didn't have the numbers. Had the proposals been more moderate the reform would have seen the light of day. It didn't.

Their opposition to everything resulted in a bill so watered down that the Republicans were then able to say to the public, "Look what a crappy bill the Democrats came up with!"

Funny that you talk about moving to the center, because that's exactly what the Senate bill was, and that's not what the public wants. The public wants progressive health care.

When will the Democrats sack up and make the Republicans actually filibuster? That would be lethal for the Republicans in an election year. The Party of No actually sitting up all night preventing votes from happening. When will you sack up Harry Reid?

[Tommy]

I actually live here. Despite what you may think, Obama's policies have a much greater effect on me than they would Ugmo. How do you not see the difference? Like I said before, I don't go on about politics in other nations because I wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

Wait, wait, wait... the first point I can understand. It affects you more than me, therefore you think I should shut up. Okay, I can appreciate that, although the chances of me actually shutting up are pretty much zero.

But this "I wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about." You already don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You didn't realize there were two different health care bills on the table, you didn't realize a solid majority of Americans approve of the public option, you didn't realize (or are not willing to admit) that Republican obstructionism ultimately resulted in a watered down Senate bill. You don't appear to have followed this issue all that much, so maybe you should bone up on the facts before you start accusing others of not knowing what they're talking about.

Also, Europe > Danger Danger

Wow. None of that is true at all. Ah, but it is Sludge, so it's expected.

[JakeYonkel]

Especially the Danger Danger part.

[Tommy]

Especially the Danger Danger part.

For sure